|
Main Paineframe posted:Well, I'm pretty sure that's KM's point - that what goes on in our neighborhoods, against our own neighbors, is more important than an accidental fire on the other side of the Atlantic even if it happens to be more famous. I feel like calling out World Heritage Sites isn't the greatest point of comparison, since there's only 27 of them in the US, most of those are either natural features or historic sites with ties to Native American history such as Mesa Verde and Chaco Culture, and only three (Statue of Liberty, Monticello, and Independence Hall) were even built after the beginning of the Transatlantic slave trade. You're also kinda wrong, in that many of the sites have ties to African-American history! For instance, Mammoth Cave, the longest cave system in the world, was extensively explored and mapped by Stephen Bishop, an African-American slave. Bishop was "employed" as a guide and became an important figure in the early recorded history of the cave, and sadly died shortly after he and his family gained their freedom. Yellowstone and Yosemite were also famously guarded by the segregated "Buffalo Soldiers" of the US Cavalry in the days before the US National Park Service were established: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBb9DoziY7M This isn't really meant to be a refutation of your post, as it's a very good point, and more just a comment on how rare World Heritage Sites are, and even in that small example there's more ties to African-American history than most people are aware of. Which is a shame! Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Apr 16, 2019 |
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 11:58 |
|
|
Matt Zerella posted:Something else burned today and it was actually relevant to USPOL  There is a thread for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:23
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2019/04/15/restaurant-fire-shuts-down-market-street/3479187002/ "The city firefighters headed out to 218 Market Street for a car fire, but when they arrived, they found smoke pouring from the restaurant, the lieutenant said." "Crews found an 'electrical issue' on the second floor, and called a second-alarm for fire companies throughout the county. Conspiracy suspicions grow. Look at those quotes! I wonder if there an organ involved?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:24
|
|
stay safe wilmington
|
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/us/texas-fire-boxer-home/index.html fire at george foreman's garage damages his car collection http://www.ktvu.com/news/another-sideshow-in-oakland-crowd-loots-truck-starts-fire-videos-at-scene-show minor oakland riot seriously i don't actually know what you're referring to
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:25
|
|
|
Ague Proof posted:
It's more than just primary stuff and related to politics. But I guess we need to pretend we are at a bad dinner party in DC and talk about a cathedral burning down across the ocean?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:26
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:
Koalas March posted:Call me petty or bitter and poo poo but I wish we could have had longer discussions about the white nationalist burning black churches than the one in a different country only people privileged enough to travel could see. quote:That's literally what I'm doing??? Kith fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Apr 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:27
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Which is a shame! Extremely agreed, but the number of posts in this USPOL thread today about ND burning vs. the number of posts about white supremacists running around burning poo poo in the US right now is at least interesting to note.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:32
|
|
|
Otteration posted:Extremely agreed, but the number of posts in this USPOL thread today about ND burning vs. the number of posts about white supremacists running around burning poo poo in the US right now is at least interesting to note. I think the simplest explanation for the number of ND posts is that USPOL is the easiest place to post about big ongoing events for a lot of people, since it's a highly trafficked thread where people can see and respond to updates quickly, with the only other options are either slower/less informative subforum-specific threads or utterly unpalatable (GBS).
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:36
|
|
|
One of the national monuments of our first and oldest ally is nearly destroyed and we’re trying to make the story about us, which is so thoroughly American. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:37
|
|
|
many threads were talking about notre dame today, it's a giant piece of global news. it may be one of the most significant things that happens this year
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:37
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Well, I'm pretty sure that's KM's point - that what goes on in our neighborhoods, against our own neighbors, is more important than an accidental fire on the other side of the Atlantic even if it happens to be more famous. I wasn't disagreeing with KM, I was pointing out someone elses stupid argument. Things that happen local to you are more important that things that happen elsewhere. There's plenty of things more important than an "accidental fire on the other side of the Atlantic", but whilst the fire is still burning it's probably ok to be upset about one of the worlds most iconic buildings burning up. Of course people first reaction less than a day after the event isn't "Lets take a step back and consider why there aren't World Heritage Sites based on African-American culture". It's just hot-taking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:44
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:, with the only other options are either slower/less informative subforum-specific threads or utterly unpalatable (GBS). Its this. An honestly it’s happening on an otherwise slow news day. The only other “big” US political events that happened today was the Bernie town hall and Trump making GBS threads himself, which he does every day. I don’t get why Goons are losing their minds over people talking about this today. It’s a huge news event even if it isn’t US specific. Also, Events move so fast now everyone will move on to another topic by tomorrow morning at the latest.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:46
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:I think the simplest explanation for the number of ND posts is that USPOL is the easiest place to post about big ongoing events for a lot of people, since it's a highly trafficked thread where people can see and respond to updates quickly, with the only other options are either slower/less informative subforum-specific threads or utterly unpalatable (GBS). True, and is probably the reason for the traffic about ND in this thread. But vs. the traffic about current white domestic terrorism in here is also interesting to note. Throw a PhD and a graph at the wall and see what sticks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:53
|
|
|
Solaris 2.0 posted:Its this. A few posters were genuinely upset that hate crimes against black churches didn’t get more discussion. And like, fine, we could stand to talk about that more. Other posters were just performing wokeness like they always do. A good heuristic for sorting these out would be to ask “does this poster talk about African American issues often, or only when there are dunks to be had on his or her ideological foes?” Edit: this isn’t a leftists/liberals thing either. Both camps do this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 04:54
|
|
|
Solaris 2.0 posted:I don’t get why Goons are losing their minds over people talking about this today. It’s a huge news event even if it isn’t US specific. Also, Events move so fast now everyone will move on to another topic by tomorrow morning at the latest. Not sure anyone are losing their minds ITT, but the contrast between the many pages devoted to ND burning vs. the relatively few pages devoted to churches burning in the US etc., is, at least, interesting. At least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:04
|
|
|
Otteration posted:True, and is probably the reason for the traffic about ND in this thread. But vs. the traffic about current white domestic terrorism in here is also interesting to note. Throw a PhD and a graph at the wall and see what sticks. This thread, despite the mod efforts to the contrary, is the de-facto chat thread because dadchat is 20 of us now and I post like once every 15 days in that thread. I 100% agree that the black church burning should have gotten more attention than a few throwaway heavy metal jokes, but Notre Dame is not just another church, even if my atheist heart wishes that were the case. If the Haga Sophia caught fire, or a part of Ankor Wat got knocked over it would also be huge news and discussed here. Also whoever had that pithy comment about "what is the oldest black church in america" can go gently caress themselves, you racist gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:05
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:Also whoever had that pithy comment about "what is the oldest black church in america" can go gently caress themselves, you racist gently caress. loving seriously, I was on my phone and couldn't respond but gently caress that guy hardcore, it's not like slaves were literally prevented from holding their own church services or anything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:06
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:many threads were talking about notre dame today, it's a giant piece of global news. it may be one of the most significant things that happens this year Don't worry, there's lots of year remaining for crazy poo poo to happen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:07
|
|
|
Otteration posted:True, and is probably the reason for the traffic about ND in this thread. But vs. the traffic about current white domestic terrorism in here is also interesting to note. Throw a PhD and a graph at the wall and see what sticks. If no one had started posting about people posting about Notre Dame more than they post about another thing while Notre Dame was still on fire then the entire discussion about Notre Dame would be over by now. I also stand guilty as charged....so do as I say not as I do. And in opposition to that statement I'm out of Notre Dame chat. Do do that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:08
|
|
|
Otteration posted:Not sure anyone are losing their minds ITT, but the contrast between the many pages devoted to ND burning vs. the relatively few pages devoted to churches burning in the US etc., is, at least, interesting. At least. The thread talked about the bombings a lot earlier today , I had thought? It’s only natural (unfortunately) it would get buried by other stories especially in today’s media environment. If people want to discuss it, then there is nothing stopping anyone posting the latest news which I think is the state finally charging the dude with hate crimes. http://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/black-church-fires-in-louisiana-arson-suspect-holden-matthews-charged-with-hate-crimes/
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:19
|
|
|
Otteration posted:Extremely agreed, but the number of posts in this USPOL thread today about ND burning vs. the number of posts about white supremacists running around burning poo poo in the US right now is at least interesting to note. This thread has 429 pages of posts about white supremacists burning the country down and it's like the 12th iteration
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:24
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:This thread, despite the mod efforts to the contrary, is the de-facto chat thread because dadchat is 20 of us now and I post like once every 15 days in that thread. I 100% agree that the black church burning should have gotten more attention than a few throwaway heavy metal jokes, but Notre Dame is not just another church, even if my atheist heart wishes that were the case. If the Haga Sophia caught fire, or a part of Ankor Wat got knocked over it would also be huge news and discussed here. Yep I'm just defending KM's posts about how the gobs of posts about ND in here might be a bit unnerving, given our culture, history, and politics. By now I've forgotten the context of the "what is the oldest black church in america" argument, but the answer likely cannot be solved anymore, for reasons. Go additional nuts with searching for ""what is the oldest black church in west of the Mississippi." Happy history! Edited for sleepiness. Otteration fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Apr 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:29
|
|
|
Fallom posted:This thread has 429 pages of posts about white supremacists burning the country down and it's like the 12th iteration Maybe an imaginary poll tax will help: https://i.imgur.com/hx1PkUa.mp4
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:35
|
|
|
The greatest consequence of the congressional hearing we had last week, which was meant to start a discussion on this topic and where I think the church burnings were mentioned, seems to be that Candace Owens got to self-promote 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:46
|
|
|
What the gently caress is wrong with her... This dynamic has to die. https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1117917866395717632
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 05:55
|
|
|
Pelosi sure is great
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:00
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:Call me petty or bitter and poo poo but I wish we could have had longer discussions about the white nationalist burning black churches than the one in a different country only people privileged enough to travel could see. I feel the same way. I'm honestly having a hard time mustering up the give-a-poo poo about an accident in an old building compared to all the other hosed up things going on the world. No lives were lost, only objects.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:05
|
|
|
I'm, uh, really starting to wonder what the hell is going on behind the scenes in the House cuz Pelosi has been taking the lot of the freshmen awfully personal lately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:06
|
|
|
Gonna venture a guess and say that they're actually standing for things instead of offering platitudes and the old guard is uncomfortable that they might have to respond to those things. Like when you get new people at work that Have Ideas and everyone just groans because they're in the workfunk rut. But hey, man, is she really going to lengths to prove "White feminism aint poo poo for poc"
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:08
|
|
|
A glass of water with a D on it would also win in Pelosi's district
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:10
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:A glass of water with a D on it would also win in Pelosi's district (Don't get me wrong Pelosi sucks, but this ain't it.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:15
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:What the gently caress is wrong with her... That tweet is taking that video way out of context.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:16
|
|
|
MSDOS KAPITAL posted:She literally says this in the video. I probably should have attributed that properly. But yeah once again poo poo taken out of context when there's legit reasons to not like Pelosi.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:19
|
|
|
She was talking about both of their districts, not just AOC's.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:23
|
|
|
Gaunab posted:That tweet is taking that video way out of context. pelosi has been throwing omar and aoc under the bus for months, cmon
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:23
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:What the gently caress is wrong with her... The description of this click could not be more sensationalistic Like, in no way is her statement a shot at AOC, you'd have to be dumb as hell to think that it is edit: PELOSI: *praises AOC openly and without question in a statement, but also makes a weird comparison* The thread: Why does she hate AOC so much double edit: mcmagic what are you doing that you even see tweets from The Daily Wire theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Apr 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:30
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:What the gently caress is wrong with her... That guys head looks like when they use those giant salad tongs to take out a baby that won't come out, and it just never popped out. Also, he's an unrepentant piece of poo poo so trusting his take on anything is pretty questionable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Well, I'm pretty sure that's KM's point - that what goes on in our neighborhoods, against our own neighbors, is more important than an accidental fire on the other side of the Atlantic even if it happens to be more famous. I'm taking a vacation to Virginia in the near future and I was looking places up to visit and Monticello was near the top. I find it extremely gross. This is an excellent point though. Normally, cultural heritage sites tend to be created by economic engines as a way of saying, "Here we are, we have arrived". And between the history of slavery, the end of the civil war and neo-feudalism enforced by the Red Shirts, which were about restoring the old racist order, grabbing guns, etc and then merged into the KKK, the the institution of old Jimmy Crow, the civil rights era and the brutal poo poo that happened during it, a lot gets lost. So the reason that you don't see a lot of African American leaders from the civil rights era for example is that they were almost all assassinated. You're really looking at very few leaders that lasted beyond the civil rights era. We also tend not to talk about other figures save for MLK and maybe Malcom X. And of those figures, King's legacy is extremely doctored. The focus is almost always on his "I Have a Dream" speech and his labor organizing and just how effective it was/is is heavily downplayed. So he's highlighted as a dreamer and while his accomplishments are now (mostly) celebrated, how he actually accomplished them were downplayed. Further, another reason that you don't tend to have black heritage sites is first the obvious. If a place becomes too nice, AM people don't get to live there for long. You get gentrification and a steady push out of their homes. However, this didn't always used to be the case. When AM people had nice things in view of racist whites, you tended to get violence and even massacres. For example, there was a thriving economic engine in Tulsa, Oklahoma fueled by the oil boom and AM people. They were doing well from an oil boom and poor whites saw rich AM people and eventually lost their poo poo. Economic progress for them upended their false feeling of white supremacy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/09/28/feature/they-was-killing-black-people/?utm_term=.06d545287aad Pro read by the way, but I'll highlight a few passages. quote:“Before my grandmother died, I asked her what happened,” said Hall-Harper, whose council district includes Greenwood. “She began to whisper. She said, ‘They was killing black people and running them out of the city.’ I didn’t even know about the massacre until I was an adult. And I was raised here. It wasn’t taught about in the schools. It was taboo to speak about it.” quote:“They tried to kill all the black folks they could see,” a survivor, George Monroe, recalled in the 1999 documentary “The Night Tulsa Burned.” quote:“They took everything they thought was valuable. They smashed everything they couldn’t take,” Hooker said. “My mother had these [Enrico] Caruso records she loved. They smashed the Caruso records.” quote:Based on Eddy’s story, state archaeologists began investigating the section of the cemetery Eddy cited. The effort was led by Clyde Snow, one of the world’s foremost forensic anthropologists who had helped identify Nazi war criminals and had determined that more than 200 victims found in a mass grave in Yugoslavia had been killed in an execution style of ethnic cleansing. So yeah, there was this massacre of African American people in Tulsa, Oklahoma that no one really talks about. Further, race riots were actually pretty common back in places that we don't talk about. So out in California, you had AM people trying to move into apartments normally reserved for whites, and ironically many of the most racist people were recent immigrants who fled fascism. The riot I recall was either a bunch of Poles or Italians, can't remember off the top of my head. However, the cause of the riot was access to homes and jobs. Rent in white neighborhoods was cheaper and the apartments tended to be in better shape. They also tended to be closer to their jobs as these were cities and inner cities used to be where labor was concentrated because the car was still new and trains/trolleys tended to be how people got around. So if you could just walk to your job that saved you a ton of time. What happened is that after the AM tennants moved into an "all white" apartment, local immigrants flipped their poo poo. They didn't have Jim Crow out in Cali, but the resentment was still there. Light skinned immigrants didn't want to compete with AM people over places to live because once they have to compete, their rent goes up, not to mention the normal garbage that goes with being against desegregation. So despite the family in question doing everything you're told to do in America: Keep your head down, work hard, save up, etc. They had all of their possessions broken and stolen as they fled. For a long time in America, AM people couldn't be wealthier than whites or compete with them for resources, because racist whites would flip their poo poo and murder and burn and rape and steal because AM people doing well would fly in the face of white supremacy. Poor whites were only "content" with their lot in life so long as they weren't black, and "blackness" was more than just the color of their skin. It was about economic class as well. This flew directly in the face of assuming that (insert racial epithet here) were stupid and lazy when in actuality they were denied education, access to resources, access to jobs, access to decent housing, access to post WW1 and WW2 wealth and respect, access to rights, really. And access to self-respect, really. So the phrase, "What's up, man?" was a direct way of countering being called "boy" when they spoke to one another. Whether you believe in the "American Dream", African Americans were denied the chance to strive for it. If you did too well, racist whites would go out of their way to ruin your life. Now we can't do massacres, but there are still racist whites, so now the racism is institutional. We can't have mobs of white people roaming the streets anymore. So the police and a racist justice system do it for them. The racism is still alive and strong, just not overt. It's just coded and quiet enough to lull the people it's not literally abusing to sleep. So because there is no racial or economic justice, there was no building of these cultural heritage sites because that costs money. African American communities tend to revolve around churches as the nucleus of their social life. And these churches were over a hundred years old. Sure they're small, but that's all they've loving got. Notre Dame was a tragedy, but it burned down due to negligence. Those three African American churches? They were cultural history sites. Marriages, funerals, christenings, civil rights activism and the general sharing in fellowship that people did every week, often several times a week. I can't overstate just how important to social life old churches are in Louisiana to an African American community. All burned down by some piece of poo poo chud. And sure no one died, but if his father literally hadn't turned him in, someone was going to die eventually. If not in an arson, then when his radicalization eventually demanded blood. The kind of violence he was engaging in escalates over time. These are cultural history sites. They may not have the gravitas of Notre Dame, but that is because to build anything larger or grander, or even to aspire to do so, would have invited fire and blood. And the bad times are back again because racist whites are terrified that they're going to lose their status as socially supreme. Not during reconstruction, not during Jim Crow, not during the civil rights era or post civil rights era. loving 2019. We still haven't solved this poo poo and racism and its toleration is a choice that people make. Now as someone who's interested in the prison system, this is normally where someone would say, "lol, he's going to get what's coming to him in prison". And gently caress that. What should be coming to him is cutting the wood to help rebuild what he torched. Prison is too good for him. Abuse is awful. But what I think would be most devastating would be to force him to work to rebuild what he torched and to make a big deal of it so the next person thinks twice, knowing that they'd be forced to undo their efforts. Send the message. Make him do menial labor to help restore what he destroyed and then allow those in the churches to either accept or reject his work. Anyway, hope I helped clarify why this is such a big deal. At least to me. The Notre Dame fire was a tragedy, but the arson of these churches was too. And in France and in Louisiana, you have people who are devastated for basically the same reasons. Their history has been destroyed. One by negligence, the others by hate. And hate is far, far more close to their history. A burning church reminds them of the bad old times. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Apr 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:35
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:The description of this click could not be more sensationalistic it’s a simple rhetorical device, empty platitude followed up by a dismissal. she’s been going around for weeks talking poo poo, so while you get to bust out the futurama Technically Correct line, you ignore that this isn’t happening in a frictionless vacuum. pelosi has been on a tour of being a huge shithead for the past week and she doesn’t need defending.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 11:58 |
|
|
Phone posted:it’s a simple rhetorical device, empty platitude followed up by a dismissal. she’s been going around for weeks talking poo poo, so while you get to bust out the futurama Technically Correct line, you ignore that this isn’t happening in a frictionless vacuum. I'm going to continue to give a poo poo about headlines that completely lie about the contents of the thing they're talking about, actually. edit: I mean seriously, look at the dude whose account it is: https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra Better uncritically trust the word of an UltraChud whose pinned tweet is about how AOC is faking her accent theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Apr 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2019 06:42
|
|