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bradzilla posted:FFT is hot garbage it's hot garbage in that way that is appealing to little kids, like pokemon and barney and minecraft and fortnite (these opinions are unpopular because most gamers are manchildren)
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Apr 17, 2019 10:12
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I read somewhere that FFT apparently was originally intended to have a branching plot depending on choices the main character made, but Square wouldn't go for it so the main dev basically split the protagonist into two characters based on what each route might have been; an idealistic typical JRPG hero who turns out to be in way over his head or a cynical schemer who makes a lot of sacrifices to end up in the position to actually change things. Might explain a lot.
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Apr 17, 2019 10:17
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Serephina posted:I love listening to people bitching about nuXCOM. It's a great game, with inevitably its own set of problems, but you never hear about those flaws when people are smack talking the (objectively good) game because the complainant is usually a huge crybaby about the most contrary of things. There is literally no way to please everyone, and here are some of the complaints I've heard (many in this thread): i used to like xcom but then i played other turn-based tactical games like invisible inc and started thinking "wait these are way better, how did firaxis gently caress up so badly" i replayed xcom 2 after war of the chosen came out and just stopped 3/4 of the way through because it had become a boring slog and then i replayed invisible inc, as like a chaser, and it was great one of the things i realized was that a lot of my time in xcom 2 was spent either micromanaging things on the strategic layer using poorly designed interfaces (e.g. equipment, skills, etc) or just sitting around waiting for new missions to pop up while "scanning" on top of some resource cache. that game's strategic layer loves wasting your time like this. the combat is great but there are way too many unnecessary pauses between things happening and even after years of patches it's a bit buggy at times
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Apr 17, 2019 10:23
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Now that's actually a valid complaint! hah.
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Apr 17, 2019 11:35
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Yeah, I outright got bored with my playthrough on normal difficulty at least since I had hit the point where I was steamrolling it. I kinda reflexively go for armour first. Experienced soldiers are the most valuable and hard to replace resource.
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Apr 17, 2019 11:40
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If they had made it better there would have been (more) endless complaining about it not being like the old xcom.
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Apr 17, 2019 12:04
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I read somewhere that FFT apparently was originally intended to have a branching plot depending on choices the main character made, but Square wouldn't go for it so the main dev basically split the protagonist into two characters based on what each route might have been; an idealistic typical JRPG hero who turns out to be in way over his head or a cynical schemer who makes a lot of sacrifices to end up in the position to actually change things. Might explain a lot. this would absolutely make sense as wanting to elaborate on what they did in Tactics Ogre, where story choices significantly impact the middle chapters of the game and where the main character ends up in the end, politically speaking
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Apr 17, 2019 14:25
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Can someone explain Tactics Ogre to me? I tried a decade ago after (I think) FFT and didn't quite 'get' the good/evil system. Like, there's a tactic that focuses the enemy leader, which ends the battle faster in your favor (iirc). But that's evil. And there was some thing about NOT chasing down and killing units, but rather letting them go so they can attack you again. Otherwise you're evil. And the very first roleplaying decision is coming across some townspeople about to burn a witch at the stake. Don't approve of witch burning? Congrats, you're evil! I, uh, kinda gave up at that point.
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Apr 17, 2019 15:54
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i think you're remembering Ogre Battle (it's in the same series and by the same general creators but came out earlier and is in a different genre). its Alignment and Reputation systems are as you say complete bullshit and i never finished it because of that.
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Apr 17, 2019 16:01
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Serephina posted:I love listening to people bitching about nuXCOM. It's a great game, with inevitably its own set of problems, but you never hear about those flaws when people are smack talking the (objectively good) game because the complainant is usually a huge crybaby about the most contrary of things. There is literally no way to please everyone, and here are some of the complaints I've heard (many in this thread): I didn't play the new bad Xcom games for more than it took to realize there was no going prone so you couldn't use actual tactics.
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Apr 17, 2019 16:01
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The problem with xcom is savescumming should be totally off the table because it ruins the gameplay, flow and tension, but it's way too easy on ironman to make little errors like accidentally clicking through a hole in the destructible floor that you couldn't see through the smoke and making your sniper sprint downstairs into the aliens. Invisible inc nails this because there are no saves at all, but you get some number of mulligans per campaign based on difficulty that let you roll back 1 bad move each
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Apr 17, 2019 16:29
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xcom: terror from the deep was the best xcom
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Apr 17, 2019 16:46
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XCOM: Enemy RNG
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Apr 17, 2019 16:53
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tuo posted:xcom: terror from the deep was the best xcom I liked Apocalypse because you could make it go fast. Basically a Sonic spinoff.
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Apr 17, 2019 16:54
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tuo posted:xcom: terror from the deep was the best xcom harsh but fair
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Apr 17, 2019 19:41
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Well, now I have to post this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WziO005uM3g
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Apr 17, 2019 19:47
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FoolyCharged posted:Well, now I have to post this ahahahaha
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Apr 17, 2019 19:55
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Serephina posted:Can someone explain Tactics Ogre to me? I tried a decade ago after (I think) FFT and didn't quite 'get' the good/evil system. Like, there's a tactic that focuses the enemy leader, which ends the battle faster in your favor (iirc). But that's evil. And there was some thing about NOT chasing down and killing units, but rather letting them go so they can attack you again. Otherwise you're evil. And the very first roleplaying decision is coming across some townspeople about to burn a witch at the stake. Don't approve of witch burning? Congrats, you're evil! It sounds like you're half remembering Tactics Ogre and half remembering Ogre Battle. There are no witch burning events in OB, but there's no chasing down unions and assigning freefight tactics in TO. Saving the witch isn't Evil, it's Chaotic because witches have low ALI. You're allying yourself with people whose ideals are governed by chaos rather than order. Chasing down and wiping out unions, or chasing down ones with dead leaders isn't inherently evil. But your ALI will drop if you're hunting low-level unions with a high level characters, which is really easy to do because that's the easiest way to play the game. But if you actually want to ever FINISH the game, you need to have a mix of overwhelmingly powerful unions to grind down your ALI to make wizards, beastmasters, black knights, etc., but also you need to maintain units that are only about as powerful as everyone else on the map since fighting enemies who are stronger than you or roughly about your power level raises it (because you're "fighting honorably"). Also killing high ALI units can lower your ALI (and vice versa, killing extremely low ALI units can raise yours), so don't make your Knights run down some helpless Clerics, and don't make your Liches and Werewolves fight Ghosts and Devils unless you're deliberately trying to raise their ALI like I do. ALI is basically the most important stat because you can't class change without an individual character being in an extremely specific ALI window. These targets are rarely easy to hit, and require that you pay a huge amount of attention to minisicule changes in your ALI. iirc if you want to make the advanced Samurai unit, your STR and SPD have to be at least so many points high, and then your ALI needs to be within 45-55. If you want to class up your Sorcerer into a Lich, your ALI needs to be like 10-25 or something, that's always a pain in the rear end. paladins are easy though, he's just 70+ALI Your stat gains on level up are based on the class you were when you gained it, so naturally if you try to be master of none and change your classes a lot, your stats will always suck and you probably won't even qualify for basic classes most of the time. There are stat-boosting items, including ones that shift your alignment, but these have an effective range of only 1-3pts, random on use. So technically if you were really rich and really determined, you could take a Lv1 soldier, feed him a ton of stat ups, and then turn him into a Lv1 Paladin with insane stats since levels in and of themselves are irrelevant to the class change formula. You can also get stat points by drawing Tarot cards when you liberate cities. This is also really important; in the SNES version, the RNG was rolled every time you just had to take whatever you got and oftentimes you would get like Hanged Man and everyone in the union would lose -3 STR and it sucks. But in the PSX version you could save mid-mission and scum a World card so every deployed union gets the benefit, and then savescum so you only get positive stats. Magician, +1-3 MAG, Chariot, +1-3 STR, Fortune -3~+3 LUC etc. This is the best way to raise your stats, gently caress leveling. You should almost never be using your Lord, especially because s/he gets exp for all your tarot card kills. You SHOULD be feeding your Lord's union powerful units regularly. Just keep him on your home base so you have a powerful defender at home, and so you get a tiny drip of exp from sneaky units who path around the map to attack your stronghold. And when the map is cleared out, send him (having high ALI) to capture all the cities so you get a huge reputation boost (used to determine how good your ending is). Note that you can actually get the best endings even if your Lord's ALI is in the single digits as long as your reputation is very high, just capture cities with units other than yourself  Keep in mind that taking cities is different in the N64 game, where you have to match your alignment to the city you're capturing. If there's too much mismatch, you'll Capture it instead of Liberate it, and that lowers your reputation. If you want to talk strictly in terms of Good vs Evil, Reputation is the only thing that matters (and oftentimes like JUST one or two recruitment choices, like "give this legendary holy heirloom to the devil king" that'll spoil your good ending; "save the witch" wouldn't change things in the long run), and that is almost entirely separate from your individual stats. Ogre Battle isn't for everyone, mechanically it's really  . But then, the dev would go on to make Vagrant Story, which is also kind of on a mechanical level, so honestly it's pretty par for the course
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 17, 2019 |
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Apr 17, 2019 21:21
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my favorite part of Ogre Battle was when i would liberate a city from the evil empire, then establish a perimeter outside the city to defend it from the evil empire trying to retake it, but the evil empire would send so many ghosts and werewolves and satans against my priests and angels that the populace of the city started to feel bad for the genocidal empire in league with the powers of darkness that i liberated them from, because defending them would level up my defenders, making it an uneven match "they're being awfully mean to those poor guys who were ruling us with an iron first, by passively defending us against them" the populace would say, and then my reputation would plummet, and i would be considered fantasy Hitler Ogre Battle is dumb
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Apr 17, 2019 21:41
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The new X-Coms also have the most bland, unappealingly generic graphics I've ever seen in a game. The old x-coms were cool because it had the pixel art of alien autopsies and stuff
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Apr 17, 2019 22:23
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Magnitogorsk. posted:The new X-Coms also have the most bland, unappealingly generic graphics I've ever seen in a game. The old x-coms were cool because it had the pixel art of alien autopsies and stuff TRUE.DAT I don'ät think this is particularly unpopular but it's for us old people. On topic: PC HACK is better than NetHack.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:25
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nethack loving sucks but i appreciate its legacy and still fire it up once in a while elbereth
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Apr 17, 2019 22:42
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Battle brothers does the 'rookie meatgrinder' thing better than the newer XCOMs did.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:43
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food court bailiff posted:nethack loving sucks but i appreciate its legacy and still fire it up once in a while Nethack has the bukkake levels whereas Hack (including PC Hack) is just real honest-to-goodness Dönzönsöns Drögöns.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:55
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Away all Goats posted:Battle brothers does the 'rookie meatgrinder' thing better than the newer XCOMs did. Yeah that is a legit good tactics game and the strategy layer has a solid interface. I don't even mind that a lot of time is spent walking around, that feels a lot better than the Scanning thing in XCom 2 since there are navigation and discovery aspects to it
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Apr 17, 2019 23:05
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Jerry Cotton posted:Nethack has the bukkake levels The what now?
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Apr 17, 2019 23:38
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:The what now? According to Bing[TM] the correct nomenclature is Sokoban, not Bukkake. Sorry.
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Apr 17, 2019 23:42
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QuarkJets posted:i used to like xcom but then i played other turn-based tactical games like invisible inc and started thinking "wait these are way better, how did firaxis gently caress up so badly" XCOM is fun to dork out on, cause there is so much customization/progression and I love the combat and destructible environments as well as the general look and feel of it. But it doesn't feel as clever as mario rabbids or Invisible inc. I played through EU like 5 times and I still to this day haven't finished a campaign of XCOM 2, but I still really like it. It's does get tedious though yeah. You really gotta enjoy the micromanaging to have fun with it.
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Apr 18, 2019 00:57
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the surge is pretty fun?
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Apr 18, 2019 16:35
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Xcom and other rng based tactics games are a waste of time. Chess problems are much more interesting. if you want dice rolls go to the casino 
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Apr 18, 2019 17:14
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food court bailiff posted:nethack loving sucks but i appreciate its legacy and still fire it up once in a while It’s been so long I forgot what writing that word does - it protects you in that tile?
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Apr 18, 2019 18:21
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Moebius: The Orb of Harmony (Origin Systems for Apple ][e, IBM PC) is a better, deeper game than (NES) Legend of Zelda.
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Apr 18, 2019 18:45
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Rutibex posted:Xcom and other rng based tactics games are a waste of time. Chess problems are much more interesting. if you want dice rolls go to the casino Yeah Invisible Inc is clearly better than Xcom and basically has no dice rolls except for the loot you find and the layout of the level, but rng does not govern your actions otherwise.
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Apr 18, 2019 18:55
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Unpopular opinion: I like the RNG in xcom because it forces me to always be cognizant of / play around the possibility of failure. You’re meant to always be gauging risk versus reward and erring on the side of caution and that makes it feel more atmospheric to me.
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Apr 18, 2019 19:22
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Invisible inc and xcom are very different games and I really dont understand the frequent comparison outside of being turn based.
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Apr 18, 2019 19:35
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Rutibex posted:Xcom and other rng based tactics games are a waste of time. Chess problems are much more interesting. if you want dice rolls go to the casino The puzzle in XCOM is setting yourself up so you can survive missed shots, not setting yourself up to land every shot. Tat said sometimes XCOM can deal you some real bullshit hands.
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Apr 19, 2019 00:19
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The solution to that puzzle is just nuking the enemy pod before they have a chance to even fire at you, without accidentally pulling another pod by doing something tactical like flanking them. I'm glad XCOM kinda gave breath to the dying turn based tactical genre but the more I learned about it's systems the less I liked it.
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Apr 19, 2019 00:25
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Even Jake Solomon, who is the main dude behind new XCOM admitted their systems needed improvement after playing Mario Rabbids and seeing how it incentivized playing aggressively.
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Apr 19, 2019 00:29
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veni veni veni posted:Even Jake Solomon, who is the main dude behind new XCOM admitted their systems needed improvement after playing Mario Rabbids and seeing how it incentivized playing aggressively. It is objectively hilarious that the Xcom guys took lessons from Mario Rabbids
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Apr 19, 2019 02:34
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Snow Cone Capone posted:It is objectively hilarious that the Xcom guys took lessons from Mario Rabbids "Thank you so much for to playing my game" - Mario, after imparting game development advice to the creators of XCOM
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Apr 19, 2019 02:51
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