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Zas posted:admiral ackbar has like one memorable line. at this point he's slightly less iconic than peppy hare from star fox 64 Which is why I was really surprised people made such a big deal out of his off screen death. He didn't deserve an on screen death, the character hadn't earned that.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:36
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Too much needless death in these star wars
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Apr 17, 2019 17:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ug2DOoxJ1g&t=152s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnX2tP5xnYw
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Apr 17, 2019 17:43
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I said come in! posted:Which is why I was really surprised people made such a big deal out of his off screen death. He didn't deserve an on screen death, the character hadn't earned that. Hes a super important, developed and awesome character in the books, for what its worth. Also he had a cool episode in CG Star Wars.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:48
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Iirc he was the person responsible for bringing the Mon ..... .... Calamari.... ... fleet into the rebellion.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:50
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If they brought Wedge back for a 15 sec. cameo and then killed him off-screen people would be annoyed with that too. There are a lot of 30something fans who still have fond memories of those X-Wing stories.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:52
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more importantly wedge was the star of a good video game. it would be an insult to gamers (lol)
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Apr 17, 2019 17:54
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If nobody was meant to care, why mention his death in the first place?
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Apr 17, 2019 18:11
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euphronius posted:Iirc he was the person responsible for bringing the Mon ..... .... Calamari.... ... fleet into the rebellion. Nah, he wasn't singlehandedly responsible for that or anything, though he was a big deal in thier planetary military. He did have a neat backstory of being enslaved to Tarkin as a trophy to lord over the Calimari only for Ackbar to use his position to learn a poo poo ton about Imperial tactics and logistics planning that helped make him better able to whip their asses on the Outer Rim once he was freed. He's got multiple major storylines in the post-Endor time period also, fighting Imp warlords and dealing with New Republic politics and whatnot.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:19
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Didn't he crash a sabotaged b-wing into some alien planet's version of notre dame and cause a huge political shitshow lol
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Apr 17, 2019 18:29
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Ingmar terdman posted:Too much needless death in these star wars It's okay. Noone's ever really gone
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Apr 17, 2019 18:32
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euphronius posted:Prequels ?? Ugh. She's a Disney General now
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Apr 17, 2019 18:32
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Sanguinia posted:The issue is someone with perceived authority lending creedence to bad faith arguments that make them seem legitimate when they're not and thus empowering toxicity. Utter nonsense.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The right-wing tactic is to take such as the bad writing endemic to the Disney films and blame it on, like, "affirmative action". That way libertarian nerds will be led to believe women are corrupting everything, stealing their enjoyment. The whole mutiny thing is also weird because it requires Poe to drastically change his behavior from the previous film, with no explanation given. TFA established Poe as a mostly level-headed dude, trusted do to important missions on his own, who takes his orders from General Leia seriously. He's no going WHATEVER YOUR  ~WORSHIPFULNESS~ about her orders. He's a huge smartass when taunting the enemy to the point it's beyond ridiculous, but that's a separate issue.In the second movie he just goes LEEEEROY JENKINS in every single situation, to manufacture a conflict that has no real reason to exist, with someone we as the audience have no reason to care about or like or trust or find interesting in any way whatsoever, to teach him a lesson he never showed he had to learn in the last movie. The whole thing is powered by making him a super moron rear end in a top hat out of left field. Plus its thesis is that Poe's a dick for risking too many space bombers to blow up a giant warship, which OK fair enough, but Holdo using a giant warship for a suicide attack on a different giant warship after everything about her previous plans fell apart is just great because...wait what?
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Apr 17, 2019 18:44
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So why don't they just hyperspace ram the planet Palpatine's hanging out on and save everyone two hours of movie?
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Apr 17, 2019 18:49
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Yeah I’m entirely unsure why Holdo’s kamikaze is depicted as the ultimate sacrifice when Finn’s is apparently foolhardy and worthless.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Utter nonsense. SMG, you're a wonderful human being
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Apr 17, 2019 18:59
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Jewmanji posted:Yeah I’m entirely unsure why Holdo’s kamikaze is depicted as the ultimate sacrifice when Finn’s is apparently foolhardy and worthless. Because Finns would not have worked ?
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Apr 17, 2019 18:59
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euphronius posted:Because Finns would not have worked ? Is there a specific line in the movie where someone says that? I’m asking sincerely, I haven’t seen the movie in a while. I assumed Finn was bravely and intentionally going to destroy the thing by flying into it ID4/Randy Quaid-style when Rose decided to intervene for no good reason.
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Apr 17, 2019 19:29
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Jewmanji posted:Is there a specific line in the movie where someone says that? I’m asking sincerely, I haven’t seen the movie in a while. I assumed Finn was bravely and intentionally going to destroy the thing by flying into it ID4/Randy Quaid-style when Rose decided to intervene for no good reason. The real headscratcher is how the rest of the First Order let them get all the way back to the door without blasting the crap out of them like they did with Luke
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Apr 17, 2019 19:32
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Jewmanji posted:Is there a specific line in the movie where someone says that? I’m asking sincerely, I haven’t seen the movie in a while. I assumed Finn was bravely and intentionally going to destroy the thing by flying into it ID4/Randy Quaid-style when Rose decided to intervene for no good reason. You could see it falling apart and blowing up on the way in to the laser barrel, it was pretty obviously not going to accomplish anything
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Apr 17, 2019 19:32
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Jewmanji posted:Is there a specific line in the movie where someone says that? I’m asking sincerely, I haven’t seen the movie in a while. I assumed Finn was bravely and intentionally going to destroy the thing by flying into it ID4/Randy Quaid-style when Rose decided to intervene for no good reason. ... No that’s not what happened. He was Don Quixoteing himself out of rage and anger in a sacrifice that would have done nothing. Rose saved him and said it’s not about fighting against them but fighting for people etc.
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Apr 17, 2019 19:33
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euphronius posted:... Maybe I’m the only one on Earth who thinks it’s filmed in a way to suggest that Finn’s plan might work. I dunno. Also I love the image of someone putting the pedal to the metal and trying to drive their car off a cliff, and in order to prevent them from killing themselves their best friend comes in and t-bones them at 100 mph. That’s like something out of the Simpsons. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 17, 2019 |
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Apr 17, 2019 19:40
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Jewmanji posted:Maybe I’m the only one on Earth who thinks it’s filmed in a way to suggest that Finn’s plan might work. I dunno. It was at the beginning but then it appeared hopeless as they got closer
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Apr 17, 2019 19:42
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Sanguinia posted:As I've said several times now, the issue is not good faith criticism of Holdo. She as a character and that element TLJs plot have significant problems. The issue is someone with perceived authority lending creedence to bad faith arguments that make them seem legitimate when they're not and thus empowering toxicity. You judging good faith criticism based on the opinions of toxic fans is literally empowering those toxic fans, is literally you giving them power over you.
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Apr 17, 2019 19:45
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euphronius posted:It was at the beginning but then it appeared hopeless as they got closer I just watched it and literally the only damage his ship seems to sustain is his laser gun wing gets destroyed. Otherwise his ship looks pretty much perfectly intact and he’s like 20 feet from the cannon when Rose tries to murder him. They show him bathed in light (“hey boys! I’m back!”) but he was clearly going to hit his target. The only ambiguity is whether that would set off the chain reaction he expects it will.
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Apr 17, 2019 19:47
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The main issue is that we have at least two distinct plots that don’t mesh: the survival plot and the radio plot. Holdo’s plan makes slightly more sense if there’s no radio. The bunker is just a bunker, and her goal is purely to hide everyone there while she heroically lures the baddies away. But then, someone probably asked: how would they get out of the bunker? ‘Oh, well the bunker has a radio in it. They can call for help.’ From who? ‘Oh, uh... allies? In the outer rim?’ This is where things go wrong. How many allies? Why didn’t you send a small team to the radio three days ago? (Didn’t your last base have a radio?) In the previous film(s) people do interplanetary phone calls all the time with no problems. Poe calls Maz in this film and gets a perfect, live, full-3D holographic projection. And then they get to the radio, and nobody shows up. Huh? The plot is somehow retconned mid-film: they don’t have any allies now. Why not? On the other hand, it’s fairly easy to picture an alternate film without the survival plot - one where Holdo is certain that “we're not alone. In every corner of the galaxy, the downtrodden and oppressed know our symbol, and they put their hope in it”, while Poe doesn’t trust the downtrodden and recruits sketchy characters like Maz and James Bond to blunt-force a solution. Hence the ostensible difference between “looking like a hero” and “keeping the spark alive” or whatever. It’s when you mix the two plots that you end up with a bizarre mess.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:07
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and he's going against a death star lazer so it's very prone to destructive chain reactions.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:09
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Sir Kodiak posted:You judging good faith criticism based on the opinions of toxic fans is literally empowering those toxic fans, is literally you giving them power over you. They're living in his dang head rent free!
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Apr 17, 2019 20:09
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Ammanas posted:you mean mauls double sided dildo? idk what a saber staff thing looks like Nah, I was thinking something like this: 
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Apr 17, 2019 20:42
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I forgot, do they mention that the laser ram is the only thing ever to crack open that door? Because if not, Finn's sacrifice is pointless because the WHOLE FIRST ORDER is standing right there, ready to put it back together or bring a new one or get the door open some other way.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:46
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RBA Starblade posted:You could see it falling apart and blowing up on the way in to the laser barrel, it was pretty obviously not going to accomplish anything I don't think it was this clear-cut. Especially since I've seen literally dozens of people who interpreted it differently, including myself.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:47
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FN is specifically the expert who knows how to blow up the laser. FN’s guns are shown melting to explain why he decides a kamikaze is necessary, not to show that his plan is wrong. Poe orders FN to retreat not because FN’s plan won’t work, but because he doesn’t want FN to die. ‘The losses are too heavy.’ This is a direct reference to the opening scene, where Rose’s sister successfully blows up the enemy ship and dies in the process, making Leia sad.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:06
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sean10mm posted:The whole mutiny thing is also weird because it requires Poe to drastically change his behavior from the previous film, with no explanation given. Speaking of the script being rushed/unfinished/hastily ADRed, everything about the initial revelations and talk about how they're being tracked through hyperspace, like, surely originally they had meant for there to be a spy on one of the ships giving them away right? Like if that got developed beyond that one scene it would have explained why Holdo/Leia/Poe had all the tension and secrecy going on that they did.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:FN is specifically the expert who knows how to blow up the laser. You are willfully misremembering the movie. FN decides to kamikaze run the laser before his gun melts away. Watch the scene, this is clear. They know at that point that shooting it isn't going to work, which is literally why they retreat. Also, why is FN the expert on how to blow up a death star laser? He recognizes what one is, because he was in the FO. But he was like a trashman. That surely doesn't give him the knowledge that driving a small crumbling piece of metal into a giant laser that melts everything is somehow going to destroy it. Nobody has ever killed a Death Star by flying into its laser before. Rose definitely makes the right choice, even if it's based on emotion. So was FN's. He's just fed up with losing, not thinking straight. There is no logical reason to think his plan will work. The only reason, we, as an audience, would be prone to believe that it will work is that, as a main character, if the film is going to kill him off, his death would have a point. But then again, this is The Last Jedi, so why would we even expect that? Poe also makes the right choice, because he's learned throughout that course of the movie, that bold crazy decisions don't work. He got lucky in opening scene, where Paige died, but blew up the dreadnought (and got all the rest of their bombers destroyed). However, his crazy bold plan to disable the tracker did not work. In fact it got most everyone killed. Now he knows, just because they're the "good guys," that crazy brash decisions do not work. "The losses are too heavy" IS a direct reference to the opening scene, it's showing his character growth. Everything the movie has told us up to this point is that FNs kamikaze run isn't going to work. I mean, if you want to pick on stuff in the movie that doesn't make sense, there are plenty of things, but why this? Why not the thing that tracks them through hyperspace, that supposedly no one has the technology to do, except the Empire literally tracked the Falcon through hyperspace in the first Star Wars movie ever made.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:40
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teagone posted:Nah, I was thinking something like this: this dumb and pointless, the bottom cant block a saber
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Apr 17, 2019 22:17
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Ammanas posted:this dumb and pointless, the bottom cant block a saber It's probably made of anti-lightsaber metal
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Apr 17, 2019 22:30
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why don't they make the whole plane out of anti-lightsaber metal
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Apr 17, 2019 22:34
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Just give her a super-long lgihtsabers like Dirk Lasermaster's.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:39
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Ammanas posted:this dumb and pointless, the bottom cant block a saber Just because its bad for fighting other Lightsabers doesn't mean its not better against any other enemy. Polearms are generally pretty good, what with the extra reach.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:55
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