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I'm still on the fence on this new concept; the pollution and attractiveness really leans into compartmentalizing your population away from that dirty industry, but you need tiers of population spread out over the islands to handle the jobs required. The T4 port building probably helps sure but I feel like that comes way too late in that you're probably going to have a bunch of poo poo to tear down and move around at that point, almost as a matter of tedious busy work. I'll routinely need like 8-9 schnapps buildings once I'm in artisans but I then want to push all those lower tier workers (or artisans) off to a new island where I'll probably need to rebuild all of those schnapps again or do an excessive amount of inter-island trade compared to 1404 because my artisans don't use the low level stuff anymore? Something about that doesn't sit super well with me; basically the min/maxing would entail completely deleting and rebuilding a bunch of island layouts, which is just awful in anything but full refund mode. Like as mentioned your high pop levels don't even use a bunch of the city buildings that the lower ones do, so the best layouts have you moving all of that out once you're there. That's strange in my head. Do y'all just trade material to the artisan+ pop island until you can get them levelled up? That seems like one solution I guess, but either way I don't know if I like this over the entirely hub and spoke system of 1404 and before. EDIT: I think my idea going forward is I put all the tier 1-2 jobs on one big main island that I'll scale up as high as possible on pop until I get artisans settled, then offload tier 3-4 and to another island and just ship them goods. This should let me keep all the pig farms and such off that island, and make city layout easier since I can focus on the actual needs of those pop tiers more exclusively. Then at T4 with the port building I offload the real high pollution poo poo again to another uninhabited place. This is probably the best route for not having to build and rebuild too much. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 13:21
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A game about capitalism encouraging you to build homes for the wealthy away from all those dirty commonfolk? Why I never
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Apr 18, 2019 13:35
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It’s the first game that ever has you want to seperate the pops tiers to an entirely different island and required jobs for production buildings, which is the alien part. The old method was you were limited in higher tier as a percentage of lower tier housing but everyone stayed on the same island and the higher tiers needed all the previous goods. Basically in the old game just population number was the limiting factor, now there’s a few more variables and population isn’t really connected to expansion anymore, at least not directly. Though now I see that I think Im just looking at it backwards, I was annoyed with building up the home of the unwashed masses only to move them and all my intricately placed production out when artisans show up, but I realize now I just leave them alone and put the artisans on the new, clean island and just ship stuff till they shut up. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 13:37
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It's amazing how well this game models imperialism mechanically. You build a beautiful clean metropole where all the important people live and they never have to think about pigshit island or industrial hellsmog island or the New World natives you're brutally exploiting for rum and oil.
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Apr 18, 2019 13:48
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I don't understand production chains in this Anno. The chain for Canned food is 8 cattle farm, 8 red pepper, 8 artisanal kitchens and 6 canneries. So what exactly does that mean? Does that mean if I follow this chain exactly I will end up with no waste? I just got Artisans, 6 canneries seems like a huge amount for the number of Artisans I have.
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Apr 18, 2019 13:56
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Mazz posted:Though now I see that I think Im just looking at it backwards, I was annoyed with building up the home of the unwashed masses only to move them and all my intricately placed production out when artisans show up, but I realize now I just leave them alone and put the artisans on the new, clean island and just ship stuff till they shut up. That's one way to do it - and something I had considered but I find my home island just naturally evolves into the highest tiers. The highest level 'final assembly' buildings are usually the only things in many production lines that requires artisans or above so my production islands tend to just have a smattering of T1 and T2 houses on them to farm and process raw materials before I ship them back. Trying to support higher tiers across multiple islands just becomes too much of a hassle. Maybe that will change when I finally get a chance to unlock Investors, I always find myself restarting once I get to a certian point because I'm unhappy with layouts. Now if only I could shove more than 10 farmers in a household...
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Apr 18, 2019 14:03
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Polikarpov posted:It's amazing how well this game models imperialism mechanically. You build a beautiful clean metropole where all the important people live and they never have to think about pigshit island or industrial hellsmog island or the New World natives you're brutally exploiting for rum and oil. Yeah 1404 was exploiting the Orient, we get a little closer to some awkwardness with this one using South America in the 1800's. I don't know how the game is presented in other languages but for English, it's presented with British accents and of course North America was a primary British colony. However trying to present the game as trading with slave owners (cotton plantations) would have been a real problem. But if anyone can do it, Blue Byte can, I'm happy with the characters of color they've added to the game. In 2070 and 2205 they used many different people, not just white men, those were made better for me by Blue Byte's commitment to inclusion. I'm responding to this openly, but I suspect most people don't want to discuss this that much, so in the future I'll be spoiling further discussion.
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Apr 18, 2019 14:05
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Mayveena posted:I'm responding to this openly, but I suspect most people don't want to discuss this that much, so in the future I'll be spoiling further discussion. To be honest, the first NPC you meet being your buddy/servant with an Indian name rubbed me the wrong way but I'm also super early into the game.
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Apr 18, 2019 14:15
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Mayveena posted:I don't understand production chains in this Anno. The chain for Canned food is 8 cattle farm, 8 red pepper, 8 artisanal kitchens and 6 canneries. So what exactly does that mean? Does that mean if I follow this chain exactly I will end up with no waste? I just got Artisans, 6 canneries seems like a huge amount for the number of Artisans I have. Some of the production buildings and canneries in particular have full chains with a lot of potential excess. The best route to balance it is knowing the exact number of artisan houses you have, multiplying by 30, and putting that number into the calculator for your total needs. When you add houses, just change the pop number. The calc will spit out the number of canneries you actually need and also the intermediate buildings. This is helpful for canneries specifically because they use unrefined iron, which you’ll have to balance against steel production. Thankfully an iron mine can support 3 iron mills or 2+2 canneries so you can get a decent balance there. Put the numbers of steel mills and such you have into the calculator too and you’ll be able to see if you have the mines to support the different stuff. Worrying about perfection supply/pop demand ratios or item utilization is going to be a lot more trouble than its worth, at least before you have explicitly stopped adding population. Just write down the number of houses you upgrade per tier and punch those pop numbers into the calc. I use two tricks to do that currently, always build farming residences in groups of 10, and upgrade those groups together. Then I can just count groups and multiple by the tier pop (10/20/30/etc). I put the total numbers in the calc and go from there for my exact building counts. The farmers rediedence build icon will tell you the number of tier 1 houses you have, but the higher tiers are not tracked in this for some reason, so keeping it organized helps immensely to keep your production needs in check. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 14:19
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Mayveena posted:, I'm happy with the characters of color they've added to the game. In 2070 and 2205 they used many different people, not just white men, those were made better for me by Blue Byte's commitment to inclusion. Yeah I appreciate this as well. For the circumstance that they have an extremely terrible timeline as historical background they get around the issues quite smoothly and try to be inclusive from a modern pov in games at least. I think all captains of the large battelships are female, so is the pirate lady. And the bad guys or morally questionable at least are white males.
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Apr 18, 2019 14:20
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Psychotic Weasel posted:That's one way to do it - and something I had considered but I find my home island just naturally evolves into the highest tiers. The highest level 'final assembly' buildings are usually the only things in many production lines that requires artisans or above so my production islands tend to just have a smattering of T1 and T2 houses on them to farm and process raw materials before I ship them back. Trying to support higher tiers across multiple islands just becomes too much of a hassle. Maybe that will change when I finally get a chance to unlock Investors, I always find myself restarting once I get to a certian point because I'm unhappy with layouts. I’m gonna have to play with ideas, I feel like it will be easier to leave the starting island and it’s 40 farms alone than to push pops out to new islands constantly, but we’ll see. I think having two population centers will end up easier than multiple small villages once I get my housing numbers locked in. EDIT: easier prob isn’t the right word but more organized in the end.The calculator that’s available shows the needs of each pop tier specifically, which at first I thought was excessive but now realize is extremely helpful to balancing each of those islands once I do it. The big thing too is that as mentioned artisans and such don’t need some of the early city buildings anymore too, so reducing maintenance and specializing town halls can go a really long way from experience. This game really seems to benefit from utilIzing those union and town halls as well as you can, so I’m going to chase that for a game or two and see how it pans out. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 14:25
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Anno always leaned on the optimistic / this is how it should have been side of any old time relationships, and even in their future games they where generally meant to optimistic games with 1-2 dickheads (in 2070's case one dickhead entire civ).
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Apr 18, 2019 14:27
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i don't think they actually mention any real nations or places in the series (ie: england as opposed to new world or old world) which basically makes the whole series take place in fantasy worlds as far as im concerned
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Apr 18, 2019 14:29
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Anyway the new needs / luxeries (wants) system is actually quite nice now that I played with it a bit more. It could use some smoothing out UI wise but having the option to deny people goods they only want and still enabling them to advance through meeting their base needs and other wants is nice.
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Apr 18, 2019 14:31
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I'm loving this game but the next one better be Anno 117. We need a good successor to the Caesar games.
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Apr 18, 2019 14:38
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Mazz posted:I’m gonna have to play with ideas, I feel like it will be easier to leave the starting island and it’s 40 farms alone than to push pops out to new islands constantly, but we’ll see. I think having two population centers will end up easier than multiple small villages once I get my housing numbers locked in. The calculator that’s available shows the needs of each pop tier specifically, which at first I thought was excessive but now realize is extremely helpful to balancing each of those islands once I do it. I am going to give this a shot next time I (inevitably) restart and see if that works out better. I always try and grab a new large island right off the bat so long as it has the fertilities I need so I can just reserve it for later instead of moving all the farms there. Zedd posted:Anyway the new needs / luxeries (wants) system is actually quite nice now that I played with it a bit more. It could use some smoothing out UI wise but having the option to deny people goods they only want and still enabling them to advance through meeting their base needs and other wants is nice. I especially like that when you hover over each need/luxury it tells you what fulfilling it will do. That way on islands where workforce is more important you can focus on supplying that instead of trying to meet every need. Most service buildings (churches, schools and the like) seem to keep everyone happy enough so long as you don't increase production on any industries on the island. Where as trying to provide them with things like schnapps and beer takes up a ton of space and labour. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 14:46
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I am going to give this a shot next time I (inevitably) restart and see if that works out better. I always try and grab a new large island right off the bat so long as it has the fertilities I need so I can just reserve it for later instead of moving all the farms there. Yeah i made a small edit, easier isn’t the right word for what it will be but I think it will work better in the long term. Especially if you can get an island with all the tier 1-2 needs and than the other with the peppers/grapes/etc. it’s not really going to be flawlesss till you can move pops around with the port things (mainly to push pigs and iron off to their own hell island) but I think it will let you max out the happiness/income on the artisan/tourist paradise, which is my main goal. The hard part will be mainly getting the shipping right but I think between the calculator and like a stopwatch if needed it’ll be workable. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 14:55
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By the way, if anyone wants to zoom out further, there's a mod for it already: (Google translate, and you need an account on their forum to grab it, but that's easy to do.) (Or rather, they made the mod way back in the closed beta, because the unpacking tools for 2205 work with 1800, so getting access to the configs was simple.) https://www.annothek.net/wbb5/forum/index.php?thread/10376-anno-1800-zoom-deluxe-mod-v-1-0/ Though I would prefer it if they added it officially, and added additional LODs to make it easier to render in super-zoomed out view. (It's just 2 .xml files, so they're easy to tweak if you care for it.)
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Apr 18, 2019 15:18
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Can someone explain trade routes and setting things up in the warehouse to be bought/sold to me? I tried setting some of that up but I clearly didn't get it because I was not getting the desired result from it.
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Apr 18, 2019 15:24
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Mayveena posted:Yeah 1404 was exploiting the Orient, we get a little closer to some awkwardness with this one using South America in the 1800's. I don't know how the game is presented in other languages but for English, it's presented with British accents and of course North America was a primary British colony. However trying to present the game as trading with slave owners (cotton plantations) would have been a real problem. But if anyone can do it, Blue Byte can, I'm happy with the characters of color they've added to the game. In 2070 and 2205 they used many different people, not just white men, those were made better for me by Blue Byte's commitment to inclusion. 1701 had plantation crops that could only be grown in the southern half of the map and it's subtitle was A New World, no prizes who you interacted with in 1701. You could rebel if you no longer felt like paying royal taxes and claim independence by crushing the royal fleet. IcePhoenix posted:Can someone explain trade routes and setting things up in the warehouse to be bought/sold to me? I tried setting some of that up but I clearly didn't get it because I was not getting the desired result from it. You choose an island to load goods and another island to unload the goods then one or more ships to do the route. If a good is loaded onto a ship, it must be offloaded somewhere, you have to be aware of how many slots the ship can hold too. You want the island doing the producing on top most of the time. Ships by default follow the shortest path between islands but you can also set waypoints (the blips you can move around) for ships on the route to follow if you want to avoid pirate patrols. The island warehouse can set goods to be sold, bought or balanced at set units on a individual basis, you can right click to dismiss a good from trading. The icon on the top left of the island warehouse button shows trade history, luxury goods are good to overproduce and passively sell, selling them to specific NPCs is best. If you were wondering what 'reserved' means, I'm pretty sure that's goods that are waiting to be stockpiled but can't because the warehouse is overloaded or has hit max storage. Delacroix fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 15:56
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also, drag the little arrow to set the upper bound of how much you want to buy/sell/keep in stock. if you have 75 fish in there and you set the arrow to 50 you'll only ever sell 25 of those fish, for example
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Apr 18, 2019 16:00
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Delacroix posted:You choose an island to load goods and another island to unload the goods then one or more ships to do the route. If a good is loaded onto a ship, it must be offloaded somewhere, you have to be aware of how many slots the ship can hold too. You want the island doing the producing on top most of the time. Ships by default follow the shortest path between islands but you can also set waypoints (the blips you can move around) for ships on the route to follow if you want to avoid pirate patrols. Is it possible to pseudo combine the two? Like "I have a lot of extra of *thing* but if I build more houses I probably won't anymore so don't actually take *thing* on your trade route if it will bring me below X threshold"? Also will people just buy what I'm selling with the warehouse setup or do they actually buy based on needs? Feels like I had set up a few of those but most of them weren't selling. Though I didn't realize there was a screen that shows me sales history so I will have to check that out tonight.
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Apr 18, 2019 16:11
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lol my ship rescueing slaves got destroyed by another ship called ‘freedom’
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Apr 18, 2019 16:22
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IcePhoenix posted:Is it possible to pseudo combine the two? Like "I have a lot of extra of *thing* but if I build more houses I probably won't anymore so don't actually take *thing* on your trade route if it will bring me below X threshold"? No, but you can use a slider to set how many units are loaded. Most of the time you won't need to take goods off a goods consuming island to send elsewhere unless it's construction material. In the case of luxury goods, you'll want to overproduce an noticeably large amount, if population catches up with output, just build more production. The production island will consume goods at a steady rate, the only way stockpile builds is if it's producing more than it is consuming after all. People will buy goods at your warehouse, they usually buy finished goods and can sell raw materials but don't expect old world trading ships to passive sell new world materials. Each NPC has listed goods it will purchase at massively inflated prices, trading with other NPCs (island settling ones) is profitable but you need to pay for trading rights. Trading income will always vastly outpace taxes if you can sell excess luxury goods to NPCs, my favourite scenarios have been the low/no tax ones that require trading to win. The trade history icon is a little clock with a winding arrow when the island trading outpost (your dock) is selected. It's not immediately obvious and honestly the UI is a stepdown from 1404 or 2070. Delacroix fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 16:27
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Nm
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Apr 18, 2019 16:33
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Delacroix posted:No, but you can use a slider to set how many units are loaded. Most of the time you won't need to take goods off a goods consuming island to send elsewhere unless it's construction material. In the case of luxury goods, you'll want to overproduce an noticeably large amount, if population catches up with output, just build more production. The production island will consume goods at a steady rate, the only way stockpile builds is if it's producing more than it is consuming after all. Thanks, more stuff for me to look into tonight to try and grasp the mechanics  The inability to pause time but still do stuff is easily my biggest complaint about the game. Even if you don't want me to be able to order builds and stuff, as a new player, I really wish I could just explore the menus and learn.
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Apr 18, 2019 16:44
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Finally had a chance to sit down and play this for a bit. I'm really enjoying it, reminds me a lot of 1404. When did they introduce needing workers for buildings? Coming from 1404 and 2070 that was quite a rude awakening, realising I couldn't just dump all my production buildings onto an unpopulated island. That said, I kinda like it.
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Apr 18, 2019 17:18
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I just founded a second island for the first time last night to farm Hops for beer and I really love the new charter trading option for inter-island trading. Not having to keep an actual trade route going with your own ships or manage the route at all outside of setting the route to begin with is really handy.
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Apr 18, 2019 17:22
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explosivo posted:I just founded a second island for the first time last night to farm Hops for beer and I really love the new charter trading option for inter-island trading. Not having to keep an actual trade route going with your own ships or manage the route at all outside of setting the route to begin with is really handy. Wait, what is this? I didnt see anything like this. Please elaborate! EDIT: Google is my friend. This will be a lot better than using my only ship. Kris xK fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 17:26
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welp managed to get past the previous bugs by reloading and now the emergency evacuation quest fucks me cause the ships im supposed to escort are going the opposite direction until they get stuck off map
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Apr 18, 2019 17:37
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Won a medium quick match online. Only took 5 hours.
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Apr 18, 2019 17:44
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Is there an equivalent of ascension rights in this game?
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Apr 18, 2019 17:47
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I love that buildings have worker requirements now. It's a small thing but it always felt kind of underwhelming to just build a dock, put down a few plantations and call it a day. I love that my little farming island actually has a little farming town with little farmers on it now. For some reason it feels really good. But it does lead to one particular problem- schnaps. I built a beer colony that had wheat and hops fertility, but no potato fertility. How do I set up a trade route to only send my extra hops from my home island? I eventually just settled a third island, Schnaps Island, to supply Beer Island with schnaps so they'd make beer for my home island, which seems like an overly complicated alcoholic trade system. The issue is transporting goods that the citizens of an island also consume. This has come up multiple times- trying to get beer island to send back beer and later sausages when they themselves needed beer and sausages. If you just send it all, even if you're massively overproducing on the producer island you'll get periodic shortages. Is there a way to keep a stockpile of a good for domestic use or tell your trade routes to only take the surplus like you can with foreign trading?
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Apr 18, 2019 17:47
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Yeah, Charter routes are great when starting out, since you get a couple of them for free. (And they can go up to 80 units of a single item.) Though influence and cost wise it's more effective to transition to using your own ships later on, especially if transporting multiple goods, or just for higher throughput. Also, I honestly like how the game props up Electricity, mechanically/thematically. Once you hit it it's just a paradigm shift in production, and the step that most encourages massive restructuring of production. Most of the production buildings, with the exception of farms double their production, without an increase in cost or manpower. Setting up oil production + a power plant saves in it's cost many times over.
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Apr 18, 2019 17:47
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SubNat posted:Yeah, Charter routes are great when starting out, since you get a couple of them for free. (And they can go up to 80 units of a single item.) Yeah I felt like this was the case as well. At this point I am able to make just about as many schooners as I want so it's not necessarily a big deal to make a bunch just for ferrying goods around. I still feel like I'll use the charter stuff though because it's nice to have those running on their own as a set it and forget it kind of thing.
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Apr 18, 2019 17:54
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Eiba posted:I love that buildings have worker requirements now. It's a small thing but it always felt kind of underwhelming to just build a dock, put down a few plantations and call it a day. I love that my little farming island actually has a little farming town with little farmers on it now. For some reason it feels really good. The best solution to this I know of currently is determining the exact amount you need on each island, and the time it takes the boat to do the round trip. The game unfortunately doesn’t provide enough of this data at all but the online production calculator should provided you put in the right inputs. Example, if you have 100 farmer and 50 worker houses, you’ll have 1000 (total) of each type on the island. The calculator should spit out a number on the bottom of the resources like 5.73t/min or something, which is the number you’re looking for. If the boat is 2 minutes round trip, than you need to send 11-12 tons per trip to maintain supply without going over. It’s a bit tedious and the game should at least present this info directly if not give us the tools to automate, but it should work. The fact that wind direction affects travel speed is really another layer that doesn’t need to be there, but what can you do. When I get home today I’m starting a new game to focus on this stuff specifically so I’ll follow up with anything interesting i find. EDIT: I might have to open the XML and pull the consumption values directly from there, but I hope not. Mazz fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 18:07
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Wind messing with shipping routes is a pretty annoying issue, especially on the largest maps.(Different map types have different island spacing.) The clipper goes down to roughly 25% of it's speed when sailing against the wind. It's one of those nice things about finally stepping up to steam, sure they're a bit slower than a clipper with the wind at it's back, but it's speed is constant, and roughly 50% the top speed of a clipper anyhow. One thing I do dislike though, is that it seems like all (non-chartered.) ships can only stock up to 50 units per stack? In previous titles like 2070 cargo ships would support more per slot. And there were upgrades to boost the capacity more.
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Apr 18, 2019 19:01
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Is there a good production calculator online yet? Some of these later ratios are making my head spin.
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Apr 18, 2019 19:07
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Gyshall posted:Is there an equivalent of ascension rights in this game? No, you can upgrade as many houses as you want provided they have all their needs met. The limitation now is workforce instead of the artificial limit of ascension rights, you need to keep enough of each tier around to work in your farms and factories and keep things running.
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Apr 18, 2019 19:10
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Pylons posted:Is there a good production calculator online yet? Some of these later ratios are making my head spin. https://nihoel.github.io/Anno1800Calculator/ Best one I found so far, you have to put in the actual resident counts and not just number of houses, which is why I keep emphasizing building/upgrading housing in sets of 10 or something you can easily keep track of. The UI falls way short on data like production or consumption totals currently so organizing yourself from the start helps immensely later on. I really hope they address that lack of presented data with patches/DLC but thats another post. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 19:14
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