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CLAM DOWN posted:Gotcha, thank you. It's worth noting that 401k plans are not actually that great and even the creator of the concept doesn't like how they are used today. https://slate.com/business/2017/01/even-the-people-who-pushed-the-401-k-think-it-s-been-a-huge-mistake.html
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Apr 18, 2019 18:49
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skipdogg posted:This is what worked for me. YMMV, take my advice with a grain of salt. This is good stuff. My immediate manager is essentially my coworker, and their manager also works closely with us (not in a bad way). This company has a looot of long term employees, so either they're all goon-in-a-well or something else is making them stick around.
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Apr 18, 2019 19:20
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On the topic of asking for a raise, for me their reaction to asking for one, even if they give it to you means a lot. A job ago I was a "Professional Services Engineer" for a hosting company/MSP. It was a small/medium sized shop, but I was by far the most "advanced" customer facing engineer they had. They had a few internal engineers on the hosting side that knew their stuff, but none of them dealt directly with customers. That meant I was basically end to end engineer for larger projects. I'd Sales Engineer it with the Sales rep, I'd architect the solution and provide the SOW, if agreed upon I'd actually implement it, and lastly I'd be the one to do the hand off to the MSP team to manage the solution often still acting as tier 3 support. My boss was awesome! He knew I was underpaid (I took a pay cut to take the job to get out of a boring job at a credit union) but he wasn't the final voice in if I got a raise or not. After a year of being there I went to him asking for a pretty significant raise ($20k) and he said he agreed I deserved it and even compiled a list of projects where without me it'd be highly unlikely we would have even snagged the deals, showing I was a major contributor in $1.5 million in project revenue and 10s of thousands in monthly reoccurring MSP revenue from those projects. He took all of this to the CIO (again small shop so final raise decisions were on him) and it ended up being a meeting between me and the CIO. I was grilled on why I felt I was "entitled" to a raise, I provided all the evidence my boss compiled, along with obtaining two certifications and renewing another all of which secured our partner status with those vendors (VMware, Cisco, and Citrix). The entire time he acted as if none of those points were valid, he even said "If you were to look for a similar position to what you have now, you'd have a hard time finding one that would pay you what you make now." He then said he would think about it. A week later he called me into his office and said "I've decided to give you the raise" I know I can't convey tone here but it came across as him doing me a favor. This was a pretty big red flag for me. Two weeks later they canned my boss. Red flag number two, so I decided to start looking. When I found my next job I couldn't help but be a little petty and rub it in the CIOs face that it was actually pretty easy to find a higher paying job with my skill set. TheFace fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 19:32
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That’s some old-school thinking and a horrible negotiation tactic: You come into my office and say you are worth more. In return I belittle your performance and tell you you are barely worth what you make now. The social contract is really simple simple in theory: I will give you my best work for a couple of years and during that time you are going to help me improve my skills and prepare for my next role. When I am finally skilled up and ready to leave You will give me your blessing and thank me for years of service. Agrikk fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 20:18
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Thanatosian posted:Assuming you're in the U.S., this is not a bad way to ask for a raise, but be aware that it is entirely possible you could hurt yourself by asking. However good or bad your immediate manager is, your incentives are fundamentally antagonistic: you want to make as much money as you can, management wants to pay you as little as they can. So, when you come at them with numbers from other places (or even without them), your manager (or their manager, or their manager's manager) may take it a signal that you have one foot out the door. Whether they give you the raise or not, they may treat you differently after you ask. They may say that you're not being a team player, they may be resentful that you would ask, they may start looking for someone to replace you (and this applies whether or not they agree to the raise). I don't agree, unless you're limiting the conversation to poo poo managers. I was a line manager for 13 years and if an employee was worth keeping around, I wanted to pay them as much as I could. It's not coming out of my pocket, but I (well, I and my team) will be the ones hurt if the employee leaves. A good boss will understand that this is a job and people need to get paid. I do think that the negotiated raise is, at most, a once every couple years thing, unless maybe you are very good and the company is very small. If you're pushing for a raise like this every year like clockwork, it changes the conversation from "let's show a good employee some recognition" to "this employee wants to be a special snowflake and can't accept the same merit/CoL schedule that everyone else gets." Edit: I agree with Agrikk, except that since I've generally worked at large companies, and so I was also always looking for ways that someone's next role could still be internal. If a motivated employee wants to do something that my company does, I want to line them up to do it for us.
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Apr 18, 2019 21:56
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The Fool posted:It's worth noting that 401k plans are not actually that great and even the creator of the concept doesn't like how they are used today. It’s still pretty much the only way for anyone in the middle class to retire well or at all. It’s worked for over a half century. Hell, everyone that lost in ‘08 recession has now earned their losses back.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:04
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Tab8715 posted:It’s still pretty much the only way for anyone in the middle class to retire well or at all. It’s worked for over a half century. How many people are actually retiring with that magic $1 million+ in their 401k to sufficiently live off of? I know I’ve seen articles written on this before, but I best most people hit 65 with about 100k and burn through it pretty quickly, for one reason or another.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:21
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Well... if you don’t actually invest into your own retirement fund I think you are the only to blame. I max mine out every year and take that sweet 50% employer match.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:31
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Tab8715 posted:Well... if you don’t actually invest into your own retirement fund I think you are the only to blame. You're in a bit of a bubble dude. The vast majority of people cannot afford to save for retirement. I dunno about the US, but half of Canadians are not/cannot save for retirements. These were stats from January I think, I'm sure there are articles available.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:35
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Yeah but a lot of people are idiots and wouldn’t do it no matter how beneficial it would be. And talking about the US’ lovely social safety net is probably not best for the IT thread.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:36
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CLAM DOWN posted:You're in a bit of a bubble dude. The vast majority of people cannot afford to save for retirement. I dunno about the US, but half of Canadians are not/cannot save for retirements. These were stats from January I think, I'm sure there are articles available. What bubble? A bunch of vague headlines that state most Americans aren't doing well, can't save up money, etc? Of course, that is true but the discussion is on the effectiveness of the 401k. If you actually invest - in the long run - it works out.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:41
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Spring Heeled Jack posted:Yeah but a lot of people are idiots and wouldn’t do it no matter how beneficial it would be. And talking about the US’ lovely social safety net is probably not best for the IT thread. If I had gold ingot for every time I heard a fellow IT Coworker they're investing in :gold: because of Ron Paul or something bullshit nonsense I'd have gold staircase to the freaking moon.
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Apr 19, 2019 03:42
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Tab8715 posted:What bubble? A bunch of vague headlines that state most Americans aren't doing well, can't save up money, etc? All right whatever you say.
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Apr 19, 2019 04:00
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CLAM DOWN posted:All right whatever you say. I mean... we could just see positive returns for over the last half century.
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Apr 19, 2019 04:01
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The bubble is strong, and repulses all outside influences.
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Apr 19, 2019 04:39
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I may have a bad PTO plan, but oh boy do I rack up the comp time! Haven’t had to use any PTO yet! 
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Apr 19, 2019 05:31
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Tab8715 posted:I mean... we could just see positive returns for over the last half century. Just like all those fortunate people who bought houses in 2007 because real estate has only ever gone up, up, up!
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Apr 19, 2019 06:21
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Tab8715 posted:Of course, that is true but the discussion is on the effectiveness of the 401k. If you actually invest - in the long run - it works out. “People with enough money to invest end up with more money than people who don’t have enough money to invest” isn’t exactly the most ringing endorsement of a safety net program that I’ve heard, but ok?
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Apr 19, 2019 13:29
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Tab8715 posted:What bubble? A bunch of vague headlines that state most Americans aren't doing well, can't save up money, etc?
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Apr 19, 2019 13:47
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Gotta desperately hope you don't reach retirement age in one of the market corrections either or you'll never get to retire. go 401k!
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Apr 19, 2019 13:59
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My retirement plan is to die at my desk. If that doesn't work hopefully one of my kids becomes a millionaire and doesnt ship me off to a home
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Apr 19, 2019 14:35
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Sepist posted:My retirement plan is to die at my desk. If that doesn't work hopefully one of my kids becomes a millionaire and doesnt ship me off to a home https://youtu.be/N1eNW7GG_Q8 My plan is to have nothing left to pass down or will it to be destroyed
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Apr 19, 2019 15:01
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Personally, I'm putting all my severance and retirement account on the PowerBall.
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Apr 19, 2019 15:06
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Hahaha the world is going to end before any of us get the chance to retire.
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Apr 19, 2019 15:18
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Trump gonna make us so rich I don't need a ffancy bank
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Apr 19, 2019 15:18
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Vulture Culture posted:Trump gonna make us so rich I don't need a ffancy bank Just lol if you keep your money in a bank instead of as gold ingots buried under the old maple tree out back
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Apr 19, 2019 15:25
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Brb, headed to Docjowles's house with some digging equipment.
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Apr 19, 2019 15:50
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Maple? This hardy American Chestnut will surely safeguard my money.
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Apr 19, 2019 15:54
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The planet will be an uninhabitable hellscape by the time I might be looking to retire, so really, nothing matters. trump 2020 so we can just quit with the foreplay and have an apocalypse.Internet Explorer posted:Just like all those fortunate people who bought houses in 2007 because real estate has only ever gone up, up, up! That was a dumb belief and not even true in 2007, though. On average, real estate has literally never been a stellar investment. There are many reasons to buy a home, but (again, on average) accruing wealth is not one of them. E: also a large portion of my dad's wealth is literally in coins. If he dies suddenly I am going to have to quit my job just to have time to figure out how the gently caress to sell them all. Comradephate fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 16:06
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My retirement plan involves having a massive heart attack while shoveling snow. I wish I could afford to max my 401k Jesus Christ.
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Apr 19, 2019 16:24
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Comradephate posted:That was a dumb belief and not even true in 2007, though. On average, real estate has literally never been a stellar investment. Ah... what? Of course it is. It's a very large reason why things line redlining had such a profound effect on wealth generation in minority groups. https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/hbtl-06.pdf quote:Even after the tremendous decline in housing prices and the rising wave of foreclosures that [Edit: Also, this is coming from someone who owned a house during that time period, sold it ~3 years ago, and has been renting for ~5 years. I have no desire to own a home again anytime soon and it's a better financial decision for me, and likely others in this thread, to not own a home because in our industry being able to move for a job will likely make you more money in both the short and long term. It's just not a factual statement to say home ownership is not a significant contributor to wealth generation.] Internet Explorer fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 17:21
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A $10,000 investment made in a home in 1896 would have been worth $10,600 in 1996 after adjusting for inflation. Over the 20th century the rate of return on an average home (for the full century!) was worse than the average rate of return from the stock market in a single year.
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Apr 19, 2019 17:47
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How common is a holding period of 100 years for a house?
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Apr 19, 2019 17:52
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Comradephate posted:A $10,000 investment made in a home in 1896 would have been worth $10,600 in 1996 after adjusting for inflation. Over the 20th century the rate of return on an average home (for the full century!) was worse than the average rate of return from the stock market in a single year. Yes, but a house puts a roof over your head and a stock does absolutely nothing for you until you sell it. If you don't have enough money to pay rent/mortgage AND buy stocks, you can take your rent money and put it into a mortgage if you buy a house. That will give you a place to live that will also increase your wealth. Lots of people don't have enough money to do both. Hell, lots of people don't have enough money to buy a house instead of rent.
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Apr 19, 2019 18:01
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Internet Explorer posted:a stock does absolutely nothing for you until you sell it. it might pay you dividends
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Apr 19, 2019 18:13
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DELETE CASCADE posted:it might pay you dividends Not enough to live off of, unless you're rich AF in which case the 'benefit of a house' argument is moot.
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Apr 19, 2019 18:27
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Comradephate posted:A $10,000 investment made in a home in 1896 would have been worth $10,600 in 1996 after adjusting for inflation. Over the 20th century the rate of return on an average home (for the full century!) was worse than the average rate of return from the stock market in a single year. (I'll relay this to the people I know who can't find a one-bedroom apartment under $1595/mo. to qualify for Section 8 housing, because the cutoff is $1585/mo.)
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Apr 19, 2019 18:35
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I spent 2 hours yesterday troubleshooting an issue with our badge printer before I realized that they replaced the film role and it was reporting an incorrect model number.
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Apr 19, 2019 19:15
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My house has been a great investment and is currently a -20% increase to my wealth and will absolutely never be valued at the purchase price in inflation-corrected dollars again!
Methanar fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 19:40
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My house is worth almost triple what I paid for it and is less than 10 years from being completely paid off. Home ownership... owns.
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Apr 19, 2019 20:24
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