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Whenever I talk about FF and nihilism (Exdeath, Kefka, Kuja, etc) I always skip 7, but the truth is that 7 is also part of it. Only a true hardcore metalocalypse-level nihilist would be the president of a company surrounded by soul-sucking reactors and be able to soundly sleep at night thinking "As soon as I die, my soul will be converted into electric power".
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Apr 19, 2019 21:38
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My soul powers the truck that hits Palmer.
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Apr 19, 2019 21:42
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Barudak posted:I mean the solution in FFVII to Mako technology killing the planet is to go back to burning coal so the game has some weird feelings about tech. nomura just needed to write a job for barret that's the thing that perplexes me the most about the EU, they saved the world so why aren't they just chillaxin? barret says "no i don't want to retire on this 100mn gil we got from fighting monsters, sitting in my villa in costa del sol playing parappa all day. i need to start a power company"
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Apr 19, 2019 21:43
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Aeris's soul powers Palmer's toilet. It's an electric toilet because it needs the power from all the lard Palmer eats.
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Apr 19, 2019 21:46
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I cannot believe that I'm going to both argue with twd my homie and defend nomura on the same post so this must be the fever But it kinda made sense to me how an extreme idealist like Barret who firmly believed in his cause would want to take leadership after his victory, especially because the world would still need power coming from somewhere and he was a disenfranchised entrepreneur in the power industry in the first place.
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Apr 19, 2019 21:46
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I could be wrong but doesn't Shinra as a company in FF7 think the whole 'it kills the souls of the planet' is just utter rubbish spouted by eco-terrorists and hippies out to smear them (outside of one-offs like Hojo who Know The Truth but have ulterior motives) Like I don't think the random Joe or Jane in FF7 knows about that outside of like, deep spiritualist types in Cosmo Canyon either
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Apr 19, 2019 21:47
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Barret's wife's soul was used to power the machines that made Barret's sailor costume.
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Apr 19, 2019 21:48
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Mega64 posted:Aeris's soul powers Palmer's toilet. Aeris' soul is still being used to counter the black materia I see.
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Apr 19, 2019 21:50
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Elentor posted:I cannot believe that I'm going to both argue with twd my homie and defend nomura on the same post so this must be the fever i guess you'd need coal for a big city like midgar but cosmo canyon has green energy
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Apr 19, 2019 21:51
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I mean So did Midgar 
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Apr 19, 2019 21:52
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The White Dragon posted:i guess you'd need coal for a big city like midgar but cosmo canyon has green energy On a serious note post-FFVII they're operating on oil, not coal I believe.
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Apr 19, 2019 21:54
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Merilan posted:I could be wrong but doesn't Shinra as a company in FF7 think the whole 'it kills the souls of the planet' is just utter rubbish spouted by eco-terrorists and hippies out to smear them (outside of one-offs like Hojo who Know The Truth but have ulterior motives) Yeah outside of Midgar and like Mt. Nibel things look like they're doing pretty OK. All you really have is some old dude on a floating orb's word to go by. They probably could have added a little flavor to show that the world was hosed. Like farmer NPCs complaining about their crops failing for no reason, or doctors saying that like half of the pregnant women they treat have stillbirths. Literally anything substantive beyond grandpa glowworm telling you "mako is the souls of the dead, also souls are real btw."
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Apr 19, 2019 21:56
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah outside of Midgar and like Mt. Nibel things look like they're doing pretty OK. All you really have is some old dude on a floating orb's word to go by. i think these things are unnecessary for the narrative of a final fantasy game. it's actually good writing imo, it's just assumed that souls and magic are real and you the reader understand the basic principles behind the concepts and you don't need an explanation for it or examples of it Elentor posted:On a serious note post-FFVII they're operating on oil, not coal I believe. you're right he does become an oil baron which makes the whole "corel used to be a coal town" thing even more 
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Apr 19, 2019 21:58
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OTOH there's not really any reason to assume that the world of FF7 follows our laws of nature and physics when it comes to coal or oil, for all we know it's all good clean energy that's safe for the planet as long as you're not consuming the souls of the dead.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:04
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Fister Roboto posted:They probably could have added a little flavor to show that the world was hosed. Like farmer NPCs complaining about their crops failing for no reason, or doctors saying that like half of the pregnant women they treat have stillbirths. Literally anything substantive beyond grandpa glowworm telling you "mako is the souls of the dead, also souls are real btw." I mean, I suppose it could be more on the face, but it's not completely invisible - Midgar is surrounded by a dead barren wasteland for kilometers where mad max gangs roam. People in about every town comment about how trees are withering. Aeris sells flowers for a premium to businessmen because flowers just don't grow. Nibelheim Mountains look dead, grey, and are filled with monsters. It's mentioned multiple times that monsters start appearing around the reactors. I don't think they assume "oh it has to do with the planet's soul" but the effects of mako pollution are frequently commented.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:08
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DrNutt posted:OTOH there's not really any reason to assume that the world of FF7 follows our laws of nature and physics when it comes to coal or oil, for all we know it's all good clean energy that's safe for the planet as long as you're not consuming the souls of the dead. Not a big fan of that line of reasoning, it means you can throw everything out the window if it's convenient. There's also literally no reason to suspect that fossil fuels don't work the same as in real life, other than they think it's better than mako. I think it's just some throwaway dramatic irony 
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Apr 19, 2019 22:09
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Yeah I also read Barret going into oil as a throwaway ironic comment. "We dug deep and found a liquid we can convert into power" - no gently caress that, that is evil. Instead, we dug even deeper and found a different liquid we can convert into power. What can go wrong 
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Apr 19, 2019 22:11
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Fister Roboto posted:Not a big fan of that line of reasoning, it means you can throw everything out the window if it's convenient. There's also literally no reason to suspect that fossil fuels don't work the same as in real life, other than they think it's better than mako. I think when dealing with fantasy worlds, many of which include actual gods and magic-powered technology, it's not really "throwing everything out the window" to assume that things do not function as in reality on Planet Earth. The 500 years later coda seems to suggest that the world of FF7 is doing fine, though.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:21
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But why would you assume that they don't work the same unless told otherwise? I'm not saying that everything works exactly the same, just that there's no reason to think that most things don't, other than possibly explaining a few lines of dialogue in a particular way.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:27
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Plus FF7 was written with environmentalism in mind so it'd be kinda counter to the point to be like "actually coal might be good in that world".
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Apr 19, 2019 22:28
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Fister Roboto posted:But why would you assume that they don't work the same unless told otherwise? I'm not saying that everything works exactly the same, just that there's no reason to think that most things don't, other than possibly explaining a few lines of dialogue in a particular way. Merilan posted:Plus FF7 was written with environmentalism in mind so it'd be kinda counter to the point to be like "actually coal might be good in that world". DrNutt posted:The 500 years later coda seems to suggest that the world of FF7 is doing fine, though. I mean unless you're rolling with the interpretation that all the humans are dead and only Red's people remain, the coda seems pretty clear. Also because most FF worlds make zero effort to resemble the real world in any way shape or form? They're made up fantasy worlds, I'm not sure why I would go into them assuming anything works like our reality.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:32
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DrNutt posted:I mean unless you're rolling with the interpretation that all the humans are dead and only Red's people remain, the coda seems pretty clear. Also because most FF worlds make zero effort to resemble the real world in any way shape or form? They're made up fantasy worlds, I'm not sure why I would go into them assuming anything works like our reality. in final fantasy world, wood burns, makes wood smoke. in final fantasy world, coal burns, makes coal smoke. and again in final fantasy world, oil burns, makes oil smoke. i'd say scaling that up by a couple dozen magnitudes follows the same rules as it did when we cranked up the burning of fossil fuels irl
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Apr 19, 2019 22:39
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DrNutt posted:Also because most FF worlds make zero effort to resemble the real world in any way shape or form? Sorry but this is just nonsense.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:39
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This is a bit of a random point but it's fun to think of Shinra from the PoV of anyone else: We in the real world also have to deal with pollution all the time and whether or not we're sucking souls to do that is not something we even consider because of how out-of-place it is. From the PoV of an average Joe Shinra are the evil guys and their story is not exactly great - Bugenhagen can be easily portrayed as a cult leader, and the entire crew is basically (as Reeve himself points out to Barret's hypocrisy) completely disregarding human life in pursuit of what they believe to be a spiritual goal. Even within the boundaries of FFVII's world and considering their "normal" is different than ours (it involves Materia, etc), the moment you take anything supernatural out of the equation they face a pretty obvious ending. You're all captured and arrested and realistically speaking you're all going to die just like Jesse Biggs and Wedge did. Even within the fantastic world of Gaia the party's decisions lead to a game over reasonably quickly. The only difference is that Bugenhagen was right, Aeris was right, and beyond the boundaries of the fantasy in the player's world there was also an alien invasion that had taken root that superseded all the political turmoil.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:40
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one of the game's better plot points imo is when WEAPON wakes up the planet's last line of defense looks at the world-eating sentient virus merged with the deranged super-soldier, then it looks at the human race, and immediately decides the latter's gotta go
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Apr 19, 2019 22:43
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actually WEAPON is a stupid animal and just tries to destroy whatever is drawing the most spirit energy out of the planet. which is why it only shows up and terrorizes poo poo when Sister Ray is present, a mako cannon so huge that it uses more power than the entire city of midgar
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Apr 19, 2019 22:45
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The White Dragon posted:actually WEAPON is a stupid animal and just tries to destroy whatever is drawing the most spirit energy out of the planet. which is why it only shows up and terrorizes poo poo when Sister Ray is present, a mako cannon so huge that it uses more power than the entire city of midgar Isn't that just Diamond Weapon and Saphhire Weapon? What about Ultimate Weapon, which just sorta started attacking random places.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:53
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The most lmao plot point of Dirge of Cerberus is that there's an even more extreme "welp, the game's over" version of WEAPON awakening and the Planet can apparently be tricked into doing it
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Apr 19, 2019 23:16
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The White Dragon posted:in final fantasy world, wood burns, makes wood smoke. in final fantasy world, coal burns, makes coal smoke. and again in final fantasy world, oil burns, makes oil smoke. Fister Roboto posted:Sorry but this is just nonsense. You do you but the "dramatic irony" of imagining that the world of FF7 has to deal with human-caused climate change at some nebulous point in the future, having already triumphed against the game's explicit, textual analogy for human-caused climate change, falls flat and is dumb as hell.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:22
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just lmao at this
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Apr 19, 2019 23:25
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You're way overthinking it.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:26
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Fister Roboto posted:You're way overthinking it.  yeah probably
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Apr 19, 2019 23:34
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Considering the kinds of monsters you encounter, there are likely monsters that physically vomit oil, exude electricity, or use a Bomb as part of an internal combustion engine that lasts forever. Nature always provides.
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Apr 20, 2019 00:22
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"Oil, Cloud!" Barret exclaimed into his flip-phone, the new era of technology, right into Cloud's voice mail-box, "the biggest drat oil fields you ever seen!"
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Apr 20, 2019 03:26
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Why don't they just use the sentient house monsters as fuel?
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Apr 20, 2019 03:31
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The silent, sleeping, staring houses in the Sector 6 always dream. It would be merciful to tear them down.
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Apr 20, 2019 03:44
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They are low income housing units for a reason.
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Apr 20, 2019 03:44
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You know, I love some of the monsters in FF7 because I always headcanon myself a little story about the burgeoning 3D rendering team that've just freshly transitioned from FF6 to 7 after their 101 class and they have a little contest to design a monster in FF7 And this guy just walks up to the projector screen and goes "well I made a house and it shoots at missiles at you" *click* "BUT THEN IT TURNS INTO A TERRIFYING MAN-HOUSE" and everyone claps and that's why it's in the game then you have the nerdy two in the back who just really wanted to make mobile suits from gundam and that's why we have the emerald and ruby weapon
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Apr 20, 2019 04:08
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http://www.bogleech.com/ffvii.html FFVII has always had the best and most diverse monster designs in the series so far as I know. Although, while we're vaguely on the topic, FFX's Behemoth was always my favorite incarnation of this staple monster.
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Apr 20, 2019 15:34
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I like FFV's monster designs the best I think. It ranges from squirrel to disembodied head screaming its own face off at you.
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Apr 20, 2019 18:45
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