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Watching the Wizard of Oz: Why does the Wizard get to go home in a balloon? He should be in prison, along with Dorothy for double homicide.
pospysyl fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 22:27
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pospysyl posted:Watching the Wizard of Oz: Why does the Wizard get to go home in a balloon? He should be in prison. Going to Kansas is a far worse fate
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Apr 19, 2019 22:29
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Brother Entropy posted:quill himself goes from 'you don't deserve thanks for enslaving me but not eating me' in gotg1 to 'wow you were my real dad all along' in gotg2 I mean, that's also explicitly a matter of his perspective changing. When he figured he had a "real dad" who was better or at least normal, he was pissed at Yondu. When he found out that his real dad was actually incomprehensibly worse and that Yondu, for all his faults, at least gave a poo poo, it gave him a lot more respect for Yondu as a result.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:35
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On a more serious, less glib note, the celebration at the end isn't for Yondu being a good father, it's about how his whole life he's been seeking a genuine, emotional relationship with someone and how at the end of his life he finally found one. The theme is expressed with outrageous cartoon violence where everything's exaggerated, so whereas in our real world, selling a bunch of kids to be eaten by their dad would be monstrous, in an exaggerated setting it's still wrong, but not unforgivable. That's really my point, expecting characters to get the appropriate, US legal code defined comeuppance for the bad things they do in a movie is silly, because that's not what a movie is about (unless it's, like, a legal drama or something).
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Apr 19, 2019 22:40
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Because, by the standards of the genre GotG2 occupies, Yondu didn't actually do anything bad. I would not put GotG anywhere near the same genre as Predator or Rambo, two series that already are not at all about glorifying the slaughter that takes place in war. GotG in addition to being a super hero flick is wayyy closer to Star Wars, and seeing Rey or whoever slaughter a bunch of people with hilarious force powers while a catchy tune played would also be out of place. (I actually like the sequence alright I just think it's out of place in a movie where this character is supposed to be redeemed, and as a result his martyrdom is largely unearned)
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Apr 19, 2019 22:44
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pospysyl posted:That's really my point, expecting characters to get the appropriate, US legal code defined comeuppance for the bad things they do in a movie is silly, because that's not what a movie is about (unless it's, like, a legal drama or something). yeah that thing that no one in this conversation is doing sure is silly
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Apr 19, 2019 22:46
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A major issue with Yondu's scene that doesn't apply to most other big action drama scenes is that Yondu is murdering people gleefully and effortlessly. Even if those people are assholes the entire scene lingers on their pain and fear and the delight Yondu takes in killing them. It has scenes of him casually walking along while literal corpses rain down around him. It looks like a villain murdering his helpless opponents to show how scary he is. Rambo or whoever may kill a lot of people but usually while presented as the talented lucky underdog. The Matrix may have the protagonists buzzsaw through a room full of guards but they're not laughing and smiling and *contextually in-setting* playing music while doing so. That doesn't suddenly make it 'okay' but it visually presents a different message.Yondu's scene is genuinely more comparable to something like Darth Vader tearing through the rebels in Rogue One then anything else.
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Apr 19, 2019 22:52
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I said come in! posted:Continuing my Marvel movie marathon. I am on Ant-Man now, I really love this movie. Michael Pena makes that movie. His poo poo-eating ear-to-ear grin is the best.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:01
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ImpAtom posted:Yondu's scene is genuinely more comparable to something like Darth Vader tearing through the rebels in Rogue One then anything else. If the rebels had been torturing and brutally executing Vader's friends twenty minutes prior, yes.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:05
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ImpAtom posted:A major issue with Yondu's scene that doesn't apply to most other big action drama scenes is that Yondu is murdering people gleefully and effortlessly. Even if those people are assholes the entire scene lingers on their pain and fear and the delight Yondu takes in killing them. It has scenes of him casually walking along while literal corpses rain down around him. It looks like a villain murdering his helpless opponents to show how scary he is. The music really adds to the whole "reveling in the slaughter." Everything about it is just so uncomfortably upbeat. And yeah, taken out of context, it really does look like a villain going on a hosed up murder spree.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:06
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teagone posted:The music really adds to the whole "reveling in the slaughter." Everything about it is just so uncomfortably upbeat. And yeah, taken out of context, it really does look like a villain going on a hosed up murder spree. it's like if tarantino got to direct a single scene in an otherwise standard star wars film, it's such a weird choice
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Apr 19, 2019 23:10
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What about John Wick or Kill Bill, I say, knowing it won’t matter.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:10
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teagone posted:Michael Pena makes that movie. His poo poo-eating ear-to-ear grin is the best. Is that the one where he both has a jukebox full of Morrissey AND a van that plays La Cucaracha on the horn? I like Michael Pena, but that poo poo got a big yikes out of me.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:11
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1stGear posted:If the rebels had been torturing and brutally executing Vader's friends twenty minutes prior, yes. I mean this is a terrible example because when Anakin Skywalker when on a murder spree after his mother was tortured and killed it wasn't presented as fun. CelticPredator posted:What about John Wick or Kill Bill, I say, knowing it won’t matter. John Wick is never actually enjoying himself from what I've seen. He doesn't want to kill anyone, people just keep killing his dog. Kill Bill is literally an entire film about how violence has consequences and hurts the people who commit it as much as those being hurt.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:13
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Guy A. Person posted:GotG in addition to being a super hero flick is wayyy closer to Star Wars, and seeing Rey or whoever slaughter a bunch of people with hilarious force powers while a catchy tune played would also be out of place. A New Hope has an on-screen body count of 75. Only eight of those are by the villains, making for a pretty skewed ratio. Obi-Wan knocks a dude's arm off with blood spray for being vaguely threatening in a bar, and Han is introduced (in the good version) blasting a dude in cold blood, and meanwhile the background music is the fuckin' Cantina Band.  e: while looking this up, I saw a Kotaku article claiming that Luke's body count by the end of Jedi is something like 350,000. I think that's counting stuff like the Death Stars, which I wouldn't, but still, christ on a bike WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 23:17
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ruddiger posted:Is that the one where he both has a jukebox full of Morrissey AND a van that plays La Cucaracha on the horn? I'd never defend Marvel stereotyping for laughs, but as a minority myself the La Cucaracha horn didn't bother me. I don't know what the significance of having a jukebox full of Morrissey is. I didn't even notice that in the movie.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:19
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teagone posted:I don't know what the significance of having a jukebox full of Morrissey is. I didn't even notice that in the movie. Moz has a bizarrely huge fandom in Mexico e: like, that's an actual thing that the man himself has acknowledged, I'm not sure if it really qualifies as a stereotype
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Apr 19, 2019 23:20
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ruddiger posted:Is that the one where he both has a jukebox full of Morrissey AND a van that plays La Cucaracha on the horn? as a mexican i'll give the morrissey a pass because that's one of those 'it's a stereotype because it's true' thing there's just something about the smiths and us mexicans, man
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Apr 19, 2019 23:21
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ImpAtom posted:
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Apr 19, 2019 23:22
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CelticPredator posted:But I am though. Well stop killing his dog then, he hates that!
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Apr 19, 2019 23:23
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Basebf555 posted:My solution to this was to just never go to those movies on opening weekend. Still works to this day! Hell, same. I learned my lesson way back in 1989 with loving Batman, seated on the second to front row all the way to the side to see an okay-ish film in 3/4 perspective in a noisy theater. The movie is always gonna be there and all the good ones I love I've managed to see 10 or 15 times so I never understood the rush. Cramming your way in opening night is, to me, like lining up at a store to buy a phone or a video game. Plus there's just so god damned much entertainment out there right now that I never feel a sense of urgency to absorb any of it. I can't loving keep up with it. From my Netflix queue to my un-played video and board games, unread books, news feeds, emails, bookmarked podcasts, unfinished paintings and everything else that it takes something genuinely special to get me off my rear end on Day One and I can barely imagine bothering to try 99 times out of a hundred.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:23
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ImpAtom posted:I mean this is a terrible example because when Anakin Skywalker when on a murder spree after his mother was tortured and killed it wasn't presented as fun. Because it was Anakin failing the precepts of his teachings and stepping further down the path to darkness. Yondu and Rocket don't have those concerns.
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Apr 19, 2019 23:26
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Brother Entropy posted:as a mexican i'll give the morrissey a pass because that's one of those 'it's a stereotype because it's true' thing Eyyy, I hear you bro, I'm as big of a mozican as they come (tho I'm hesitant on going to the Morrissey Convention here in LA), but that one-two punch was a bit too much (plus wasn't the jukebox in his abuela's restaurant? There's no way that jukebox wouldn't be filled with ranchero ballads, grandmas don't rock with the Smiths). ruddiger fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 23:29
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Moz has a bizarrely huge fandom in Mexico Brother Entropy posted:as a mexican i'll give the morrissey a pass because that's one of those 'it's a stereotype because it's true' thing Today I learned!
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Apr 19, 2019 23:48
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:A New Hope has an on-screen body count of 75. Only eight of those are by the villains, making for a pretty skewed ratio. Obi-Wan knocks a dude's arm off with blood spray for being vaguely threatening in a bar, and Han is introduced (in the good version) blasting a dude in cold blood, and meanwhile the background music is the fuckin' Cantina Band. ImpAtom's post right after mine is honestly a great answer to this. Luke and Han and Leia shooting Storm Troopers during an escape, or an actual dogfight in enemy airspace is not the same as Yondu effortlessly and (by the end of the sequence) gleefully slaughtering these guys. Obi-Wan disarms (heh) but doesn't kill the guy in the bar, and the music stops before cutting back in to show that this is just normal shady bar poo poo (the guy also pulls a gun, he's not just being "vaguely threatening"). Again, I think it works for Yondu the dangerous mercenary with a soft-spot they introduced in the first movie, just not for My Space Dad Mary Poppins which they rush him to a bit too fast for my taste by the end of 2.
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Apr 20, 2019 00:00
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Maybe I just really like Michael Rooker, so it makes it almost impossible for me to hate him. Even in The Walking Dead, he was arguably the only good character in the show
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Apr 20, 2019 00:15
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I like when Michael Rooker shows up in Tombstone with that super curly red hair.
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Apr 20, 2019 01:41
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https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/1119399821419270147?s=21
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Apr 20, 2019 01:41
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I love Ant-Man because it tries to do cool stuff with the powers instead of just punching harder and because it has a divorce storyline that ends with a peaceful separation instead of awkwardly bringing the parents together. As someone who grew up with separated parent (switching place every week), I was glad to see that.
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Apr 20, 2019 03:05
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I mean, that's also explicitly a matter of his perspective changing. That still comes back to 'Yondu isn't the literal worst, let's give him a giant viking funeral' ImpAtom posted:A major issue with Yondu's scene that doesn't apply to most other big action drama scenes is that Yondu is murdering people gleefully and effortlessly. Even if those people are assholes the entire scene lingers on their pain and fear and the delight Yondu takes in killing them. It has scenes of him casually walking along while literal corpses rain down around him. It looks like a villain murdering his helpless opponents to show how scary he is. The fact that most of them cannot even try to fight back and a bunch of them are doing nothing but running away, and the scene goes on for sooo very long is what makes it uncomfortable. It feels closer to those scenes where Steven Seagal breaks every single one of the villains bones and repeatedly hits him in the balls while the bad guy screams in pain and can't fight back after the first minute. Except with a cheerful song over the top. ImpAtom posted:John Wick is never actually enjoying himself from what I've seen. He doesn't want to kill anyone, people just keep killing his dog. It explicitly uses the imagery of a lapsing former addict. Except John's addiction is killing. They're really good and you should watch them. LORD OF BOOTY posted:A New Hope has an on-screen body count of 75. Only eight of those are by the villains, making for a pretty skewed ratio. Obi-Wan knocks a dude's arm off with blood spray for being vaguely threatening in a bar, and Han is introduced (in the good version) blasting a dude in cold blood, and meanwhile the background music is the fuckin' Cantina Band. The guy in the bar pulls a gun on obi-wan, and the guy Han kills absolutely planned to kill him and was a position to do so. Han also grows dramatically through the course of that and the other films. So, if you ignore the context, subtext and text of those scenes, you're right. Also, where did that 8 come from? That wouldn't even account for the blockade runner, never mind the jawas, the owens and all the rebel pilots in the last scene.
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Apr 20, 2019 03:07
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:John Connor insists that the T-800 not kill anybody, and the movie follows through with this and treats him as morally correct for having insisted on it (and Sarah as somewhat morally ambiguous for not being on board). Hell, when John finds out that Sarah's planning to kill Miles Dyson he's straight up horrified and goes out of his way to stop her- and it works and causes Miles to become their new buddy. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard of anyone griping about anything in the pinnacle of action movies, Terminator 2.
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Apr 20, 2019 06:07
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Obi-Wan knocks a dude's arm off with blood spray for being vaguely threatening in a bar, and Han is introduced (in the good version) blasting a dude in cold blood, and meanwhile the background music is the fuckin' Cantina Band. That's a reference to Western movies where the pianist in the saloon is inevitably playing a jaunty honky tonk tune as a crazy brawl breaks out around him. Guy A. Person posted:I would not put GotG anywhere near the same genre as Predator or Rambo, two series that already are not at all about glorifying the slaughter that takes place in war. GotG in addition to being a super hero flick is wayyy closer to Star Wars, and seeing Rey or whoever slaughter a bunch of people with hilarious force powers while a catchy tune played would also be out of place. The catchiness of the song is pretty much the point of it. Remember that it's not just part of the film's soundtrack, it's actually playing diegetically in the ship as the mutineers are getting slaughtered. Yondu plays it over the ship's PA system to let them know he's coming for them and they're hosed. It's also a deceptively cheerful song, if you listen to the lyrics it's actually about an idiot who gets suckered into flirting with a "bad man's" girlfriend when she starts giving him looks and tells him he's "big and strong" but he has to dive out a window and run for his life when the dude turns up. The theme of the song is "You got tricked into loving over the wrong guy." Edit: if they'd used a rockier and more 'appropriate' song like Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild" or even something that was still inappropriate but in a much more obvious and funny manner like "Stayin' Alive" by the BeeGees I don't think anyone would have had a problem with the scene. I can kind of see what they were trying to do by juxtaposing 'Come A Little Bit Closer' over all that brutal violence but it didn't quite work as intended and instead came across as jarring for a lot of the audience. I mean, they had a scene earlier in the movie where Rocket easily and brutally slaughters a bunch of Ravagers to the tune of Glen Campbell's "Southern Nights" which was just ridiculous but I've never heard anyone complain about that. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Apr 20, 2019 |
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Apr 20, 2019 06:27
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Ok so people are of the opinion that the slaughter in GOTG2 is a little much. More than one person feels this way. This isn't random chance. I don't see what you have to gain by attempting to prove that the people who feel this way are objectively wrong because (X) number of movies are also violent and you didn't notice or whatever.
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Apr 20, 2019 08:34
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Ok so people are of the opinion that the slaughter in GOTG2 is a little much. More than one person feels this way. This isn't random chance. I don't see what you have to gain by attempting to prove that the people who feel this way are objectively wrong because (X) number of movies are also violent and you didn't notice or whatever. Who are you replying to
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Apr 20, 2019 08:37
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Wait was Spider-Man Far From Home always coming out in July or did it get delayed at some point? I thought it was due a month after Endgame.
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Apr 20, 2019 08:40
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I mean, the killing is in character for a guy like Yondu based on what we know about him from the film. The main issue with the scene is it glamorizes the violence from the hero's perspective, skewing the tone way more towards "uncomfortable" than "badass". By comparison, I had zero issue with Yondu ghosting the all the dudes in the first GOTG movie with his whistle arrow. That scene doesn't revel in the violence. It's structured more like a hero against all odds standing up to his attackers in "badass" fashion. The attackers are also all faceless mooks, and the camera doesn't linger on their deaths in slow motion. It's short and effective (but visually it looks like rear end). [edit] Just compare the tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Gz7MeSbF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXbFP2V_zSA The difference is easy to pick up on. teagone fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Apr 20, 2019 |
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Apr 20, 2019 08:47
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Who are you replying to After re-reading the past couple pages evidently nobody. My mistake.
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Apr 20, 2019 08:56
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teagone posted:By comparison, I had zero issue with Yondu ghosting the all the dudes in the first GOTG movie with his whistle arrow. That scene doesn't revel in the violence. It's structured more like a hero against all odds standing up to his attackers in "badass" fashion. The attackers are also all faceless mooks, and the camera doesn't linger on their deaths in slow motion. It's short and effective (but visually it looks like rear end). The other difference is that those guys were actively attacking him so there was a reason for him to defend himself. There were stakes in his action so the violence was 'earned' according to action movie rules. But in the scene where he kills all the mutinous Ravagers most of them were desperately trying to get away from him, so he had reasons for killing them but it wasn't really necessary and there weren't really any stakes involved. I guess a comparison could be that the scene where he kills all the faceless mooks in GotG1 was pretty much a standard action movie sequence but the scene where he slaughters the Ravagers in GotG2 felt like if John McClane had a chance to get himself and all the hostages safely out of Nakatomi Plaza but then went "Uh you guys go ahead I'm gonna go back in there and throw the terrorists out a window." Edit: If they'd continued portraying Yondu as an rear end in a top hat-with-a-heart-of-gold anti-hero like Wolverine or Deadpool that slaughter scene would have been fine but then they had to try and turn his character around at the end of the film.
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Apr 20, 2019 09:32
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RatHat posted:Wait was Spider-Man Far From Home always coming out in July or did it get delayed at some point? I thought it was due a month after Endgame. It's moved up two days earlier to July 2nd to take advantage of the longer holiday.
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Apr 20, 2019 09:43
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Snowman_McK posted:It feels closer to those scenes where Steven Seagal breaks every single one of the villains bones and repeatedly hits him in the balls while the bad guy screams in pain and can't fight back after the first minute.
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Apr 20, 2019 10:13
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