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iospace posted:I don't like it, but if they must: I've seen so many people mad online that the Lights driver gets into the 500. One dude straight up said Michael was "ruining the sport and the tradition" gently caress 25/8. You get in based on how you qualify (but also let a lights driver in)
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Apr 19, 2019 17:57
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https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/motor/2019/04/18/indycar-ceo-mark-miles-addresses-guaranteed-entries-indy-500/3507127002/ Mark Miles mush-mouths his way through the interview, ends it by saying the history of the 25/8, and the fan reaction, doesn't factor into his decision making.
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Apr 19, 2019 18:11
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If for some godforsaken reason this happens, there's got to be compromise. A driver making the field of 33 on speed should never be bumped out by someone with a guaranteed starting spot. We'd just be adding extra starters (provisionals basically) to the 12th row on back. But there also needs to be consequences for a full team team with a guaranteed spot if they don't make the field. Ideas: - One provisional per team instead of driver. If a Penske 1995 situation happens only one driver is getting in. This should be plenty for the big teams in fringe situations (RHR 2011) without crowding the grid. As a bonus, it gives extra security for teams doing full Indycar seasons for the first time, encouraging more full-time entries. - Any team/driver/car granted a provisional loses 50 or 100 points in the standings. We can't very well have a series champion that can't even qualify at Indy, now can we? - Put a cap of three provisional entries, with an agreed upon order of preference when selecting them. The one or two Penske/Ganassi/Andretti cars that somehow don't make it on speed will probably never get shut out no matter how you do this (points leaders, past winners, etc.). - The 11th row is and always will be the "last row" and get all the parties/press/awards that come with that. The 12th row provisional starters (let's call it the "row of shame") do not get to participate in the traditional press tour and are not eligible for contingency awards. This can be done if it's done smart.
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Apr 19, 2019 18:23
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The team owners who don't like it, should like, split off and form their own, like championship for teams
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Apr 19, 2019 18:44
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it was dumb in 1996 and its dumb now
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Apr 19, 2019 19:08
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I don't know...the basic rule I think I would put in place would be a "trade" between a spot claimed by a one-off driver and a full-time one. Something about how the full-time team must provide them with say, 3 races during the season and assistance the next season at Indy in order to claim the spot. Example? If Penske wanted to buy their way into the 1995 field? They'd have to give Roberto Guerrero/Pagan a race at Michigan, Milwaukee, and Laguna Seca. In addition? Help with the (speculative) 1996 Indianapolis 500. I feel that's very much fair.
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Apr 19, 2019 19:17
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No guaranteed spots. If the teams want to keep their sponsors, maybe they should consider making the field and not getting bumped out by shoestring operations.
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Apr 19, 2019 19:21
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Juncos (probably with Kaiser) confirmed for May. Should be 36-37 cars. https://racer.com/2019/04/19/juncos-confirms-solo-indy-500-entry/
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Apr 19, 2019 21:19
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*chanting, ignoring what happened last year* BUMP DAY BUMP DAY BUMP DAY
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Apr 19, 2019 21:37
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:*chanting, ignoring what happened last year* Getting more than one car bumped is better than just one car so I will join you in this chant BUMP DAY BUMP DAY BUMP DAY
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Apr 19, 2019 21:50
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Guaranteed spots are the worst idea ever. If you can't post at least the 33rd fastest time you don't deserve to be in the race  Also I like the idea of the Last Row Shootout, actually makes the Last Row Party mean something real again
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Apr 19, 2019 22:59
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(typing this....I'm sure something big will break and this will be forgotten) I'm trying to a rough "visual" history of "IndyCar on TV" pre-CART btw. I guess it's rather complicated for the series itself because they have rights to -All Indianapolis Motor Speedway "IndyCar" footage -All Championship Auto Racing Teams footage (1979-2003) -All Indy Racing League footage (1996-pres.) -All Open Wheel Racing Series footage (2004-2007) CART pre-1984 or so is some what difficult. Seasons are sort of sparse. I have confirmation of one race not being aired on television (judging by the footage used in highlights aired on "Sportscenter), that being the race from Road America from 1982. Paul Page says on the show "IndyCar World" that the early contract for CART was with NBC to air all of their races on "Sportsworld" I believe. But USAC is a rather large blind spot for some reason. I guess that due to that sanctioning body still holding the rights to the "Gold Crown Championship" (June 10 1956-September 5, 1983). that it really hasn't popped up in full for whatever reason. It appears that ABC's "Wide World of Sports" program was an early friend of the two largest (AMERICAN) sanctioning bodies (a big "no duh"), and that CBS also was in on the game with their "Car and Track" program. But it's really difficult to kinda gather a full list of the races shown. Anyone have any clue of whom to ask? (I can post a list of what I've found btw.)
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Apr 19, 2019 23:20
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https://twitter.com/WillyRibbs/status/1119367415647830016
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Apr 20, 2019 00:05
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What's the record for the most cars trying to qualify for the 500? There was a quote this past week from someone who mentioned 70 or so back in his day. I had a cursory look at Wiki but couldn't find any more than 50 (1976, I think it might have been). Unfortunately, that's not a stat that seems to be reported much.
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Apr 20, 2019 00:14
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I think the fact that, once in a while when the stars align just right, somebody like Penske in 1995 or Hinchcliffe last year can miss the show. I said it last year at the time but as shocking as it was, can you imagine the stories coming if Hinch manages to win a 500 in his career? Almost killed by the track, bumped out, and then becoming a winner? That's the drama and stakes we want, and you only get that with some amount of risk.
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Apr 20, 2019 01:55
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gently caress Yeah Willy T. marshalljim posted:What's the record for the most cars trying to qualify for the 500? There was a quote this past week from someone who mentioned 70 or so back in his day. It's also going to be a very messy metric over the years, since these days technically pretty much every driver actually has two cars "entered". Conversely, as a kid I remember plenty of bump day attempts throwing different drivers at different cars just seeing if anything could make it stick onto row 11.
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Apr 20, 2019 02:05
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The 1995 Penske thing is just so bizarre when you consider that they came back later that year for a tire test and ran much faster. They just blew the setups in May and didn't know it.
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Apr 20, 2019 03:04
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Proud Christian Mom posted:The 1995 Penske thing is just so bizarre when you consider that they came back later that year for a tire test and ran much faster. They just blew the setups in May and didn't know it. God they should have just shown up at Walt Disney and Phoenix... And apparently TG, RP were NOT on bad terms btw. They apparently had a deal to expand the field to 45 or something while playing golf. Then it got nixed because the CART owners didn't like it or something.
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Apr 20, 2019 04:09
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Proud Christian Mom posted:The 1995 Penske thing is just so bizarre when you consider that they came back later that year for a tire test and ran much faster. They just blew the setups in May and didn't know it. IIRC, they were testing something new in the suspension for Emerson in a test before that May. That something new was broken and they didn't catch it so their setups was based with that broken part for the entirety of May.
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Apr 20, 2019 05:03
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https://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/ride-jmv/guaranteed-spots-indy-500-robin-miller-says-yes Even the Old Cranky Bastard is OK with the 25/8 rule.
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Apr 20, 2019 06:24
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Robin has gone soft lately
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Apr 20, 2019 06:30
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Legit trying to figure out the last time an IndyCar driver has been featured in national ads like Hinch has ben. I want to say the mid-90s...though I can recall Target REALLY loved being  about Vasser, Montoya, and Zanardi. Though I don't remember if those were strictly JUST for Racing telecasts or not.
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Apr 20, 2019 06:40
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I distinctly remember Dario's likeness on display in the shampoo aisle at Target. Bet your rear end I bought some.
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Apr 20, 2019 06:50
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IOwnCalculus posted:I distinctly remember Dario's likeness on display in the shampoo aisle at Target. Should have had the same amount of "500s" as Mears, Foyt and Al Sr. gently caress that rinky-dink parking lot in Houston forever.
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Apr 20, 2019 07:36
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BTW? Miller's take was him pretty much being resigned to the take that the "500" was never coming back to where it was and that "The month of may" is no longer what it was. He kinda said that to me in 2016 when I pointed to the crowds for Carb Day, and the upcoming race. "Well it costs too much for infield parking and no one comes for qualifying any more". I....don't agree.
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Apr 20, 2019 08:03
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marshalljim posted:What's the record for the most cars trying to qualify for the 500? There was a quote this past week from someone who mentioned 70 or so back in his day. Cars and drivers are different things too. Wasn't it fairly standard practice for teams to run 2 or 3 cars for a driver and then try to lease out the spares once the driver was locked into the race? Or am I now just imagining things.
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Apr 20, 2019 13:13
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Dudley posted:Cars and drivers are different things too. Wasn't it fairly standard practice for teams to run 2 or 3 cars for a driver and then try to lease out the spares once the driver was locked into the race? Yep, most teams had a T car that used to be assigned its own racing number (eg the driver with the 1 car would also have like car 50 and 55 as spare chassis but they would probably have "1T" actually on the car). For example, in the year of the Monster for Penske they had at least four chassis there, maybe five, and the drivers swapped around regularly (mostly Tracy doing laps in the other chassis if my memory serves). so for teams further down the grid that was also a chance too, let guys with helmets and checks try to get their T car into the race once their main driver was safe.
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Apr 20, 2019 13:18
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Proud Christian Mom posted:it was dumb in 1996 and its dumb now Yeah, gently caress that noise, It worked so well for NASCAR.
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Apr 21, 2019 15:04
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FuzzySkinner posted:So Andretti, Penske and Ganassi now WANT the 25/8 rule... no matter what happened the IRL was set on going to an incompatible stock-block formula in 1997 which CART was not willing to go with, and wouldn't have in a million years. there was no reason for them to acknowledge the IRL races with that in mind, and as long as the IRL was set on their stock-block future it wouldn't have changed anything at all except maybe the 1996 Indy 500 field wouldn't have sucked so much Legitimately the only argument for the CART teams running those races would have been in an attempt to kill off all the IRL teams by denying them used chassis/engines and taking their qualifying spots. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 15:51
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marshalljim posted:What's the record for the most cars trying to qualify for the 500? There was a quote this past week from someone who mentioned 70 or so back in his day. i think it would have been in the mid-80s when basically anyone could buy a March-Cosworth and be more or less competitive out of the gate. unfortunately qualifying data for Indy 500s is inexplicably difficult to find. I really don't know why I can look up prequalifying times for the 1988 Grand Prix of Liechtenstein or some poo poo and can't get reliable data on the biggest US open wheeler race in the world.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:00
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i think it would have been in the mid-80s when basically anyone could buy a March-Cosworth and be more or less competitive out of the gate. I think it’s a matter of F1 being a giant, well organized, worldwide series. I’ve had the same problem looking up CART data. It’s even hard to find information on teams sometimes.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:22
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I imagine there's shitloads of paper records and qualifying timesheets in a book somewhere, but you'd at least think something as fundamental as entry lists would be posted online somewhere.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:23
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I’ve thought of updating all the yearly wikipedia entries on the 500 using that huge book I have. What’s the copyright/moral take on that? The book has been out of print for like 20 years but feels weird even with citations.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:28
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I think it might be compounded by the fact that multiple drivers might use the same chassis, or certain chassis/cars would only appear in practice runs. I guess we can also kinda blame USAC here. Their officiating and organization had been...questionable to say the least.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:29
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IANAL but I think if it's "raw" data (i.e. not some kind of fancy chart) it isn't really protected by copyright.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:30
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Frond posted:I think it might be compounded by the fact that multiple drivers might use the same chassis, or certain chassis/cars would only appear in practice runs. Yeah but even stuff like seeing a team's multiple backup entries is interesting stuff. I think the data is clearly there, it's probably just not online. Same deal happens with stuff like NASCAR's Wikipedia articles being awful, etc, when NASCAR as an organization clearly kept records.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:31
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Pictures are hard to find too. I have been looking for a picture of the big block monstrosity Coyne tried qualify in 1987.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:32
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Yet it’s easy to find pictures of a guy who appeared in one F1 practice session in Japan in 1976.
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Apr 21, 2019 16:34
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Cygni posted:I’ve thought of updating all the yearly wikipedia entries on the 500 using that huge book I have. What’s the copyright/moral take on that? The book has been out of print for like 20 years but feels weird even with citations. Like all of Wikipedia is based on citing copyrighted works
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Apr 21, 2019 16:34
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Yeah but even stuff like seeing a team's multiple backup entries is interesting stuff. It would be very cool. I love obscure stuff like that. From what I recall the 1996 Indy 500 has pretty good records bizarrely. There were a ton of entries and chassis (although not all showed up).
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Apr 21, 2019 16:37
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