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At least in Fate/Zero, most of the boring miserable assholes barely talk (especially to each other) except to provide basic exposition. In Apocrypha, the huge mess of characters is always talking to each other's and it never takes the time to lay groundwork for anything or develop the characters, so every action feels completely random and often pretty contrived (especially everything concerning Sieg).
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Apr 21, 2019 17:45
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Endorph posted:fate/zero is a bunch of boring assholes being miserable, and it kills off or ignores the only likable characters Miserable people being assholes, sure, but boring? Iskander and Waver’s big gay bromance was great. Kiritsugu melting down in real time was great. Any time Gilgamesh talks. Kirei becoming Maximum Evil. I can see it being too dark and depressing for people, but Zero was by no means dull.
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Apr 21, 2019 17:46
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Vengarr posted:I can see it being too dark and depressing for people, but Zero was by no means dull.  I can't understand how anyone could put Zero below Apocrypha unless they've just got big hard-ons for Astolfo or something. Aprocypha has decent characters, but that's literally it. It took the second half of the show to get any kind of momentum going and even then it was okay at best. RanKizama fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 17:50
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Oh Snapple! posted:That Agravain screencap, but with Gen's face plastered onto it. 
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Apr 21, 2019 18:05
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Main Paineframe posted:At least in Fate/Zero, most of the boring miserable assholes barely talk (especially to each other) except to provide basic exposition. i gotta reply to this post but first i gotta walk in circles around my laptop while i do it
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Apr 21, 2019 18:06
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If you didn’t like that scene we gotta agree to disagree about your disagreeable lack of agreement
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Apr 21, 2019 18:32
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Zero is excellent and Apocrypha has promise but is unfortunately garbage thanks to being a bloated mess focusing on Sieg who is one of the worst characters in the franchise.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:36
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Sieg sucked really bad Astolfo was great Needed more Spartacus EDIT: obviously Mordred owned
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Apr 21, 2019 18:40
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Zero was good and basically a comedy
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Apr 21, 2019 18:43
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Sieg gets a lot better in FGO.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:51
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I'd probably feel less negative about zero if it didn't poison western fate discourse for years.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:56
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Niice, this one Babylonia quest gave a poo poo ton of embers. I guess they figured they'd be nice and actually give you some XP from story quests to help prepare for future battles.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:57
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I mostly just love that Nasu wrote in an excuse to give the player some gold embers.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:58
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King Gilgamesh, why'd you jump in?!
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Apr 21, 2019 18:59
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I don't like Fate/Zero but I do appreciate that it let me watch Gilgamesh's smug face get blown up.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:00
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F/Z is really bad cause it totally fails to achieve what it set out to do aside from Iskandar and Waver's relationship. Anytime it's trying to do actual setup for FSN it flops hard. It's better than Apocrypha primarily because Apocrypha's story is terrible AND its fight choreography is garbage, which you can't say for F/Z, but that's not exactly a great achievement. It's kind of bizarre how both Urobuchi and Higashide made much better work in FGO.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:18
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Ytlaya posted:Niice, this one Babylonia quest gave a poo poo ton of embers. I guess they figured they'd be nice and actually give you some XP from story quests to help prepare for future battles. I feel like the story in general should do more of this esp early on - new players shouldn't have to wait months for an event to start ascending servants.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:17
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Stairmaster posted:Add bb and all my other favorite characters to link!!! iirc bb is super duper dead by the end of ccc (the game). Ytlaya posted:Niice, this one Babylonia quest gave a poo poo ton of embers. I guess they figured they'd be nice and actually give you some XP from story quests to help prepare for future battles. It annoys me to no end that that never, ever happens again. dogsicle posted:NA isn't 1:1 with JP so i feel like fixating on some small amount of "missed" quartz as if it's a slight against the players is a weird and unhealthy attitude The difference adds up. It might not be a big deal if you're a whale or a JP player, but it kind of matters for everyone else.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:17
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Cuntellectual posted:It annoys me to no end that that never, ever happens again. Yeah, and quests continue to give you 1-3* embers that are completely and utterly useless by the time you're strong enough to be doing those levels in the first place (or hell, pretty much any point beyond a servant reaching level 20-30).
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Apr 21, 2019 20:23
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Cuntellectual posted:The difference adds up. It might not be a big deal if you're a whale or a JP player, but it kind of matters for everyone else.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:32
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Kild posted:I feel like the story in general should do more of this esp early on - new players shouldn't have to wait months for an event to start ascending servants. The dumbest part is that even 100 embers from events isn't enough to max level one welfare servant. Transient People posted:F/Z is really bad cause it totally fails to achieve what it set out to do aside from Iskandar and Waver's relationship. Anytime it's trying to do actual setup for FSN it flops hard. It's better than Apocrypha primarily because Apocrypha's story is terrible AND its fight choreography is garbage, which you can't say for F/Z, but that's not exactly a great achievement. It's kind of bizarre how both Urobuchi and Higashide made much better work in FGO. F/Z is funny because it's a prequel to FSN that isn't actually a prequel because the writers realized some things would make absolutely no sense that way. dogsicle posted:characters end up underwritten but still like 80% of the cast owns and the animation on display is top notch. Yeah, such memorable characters as "cute girl with bronze link manipulators who I would have forgotten about if not for FGO" or "catgirl archer that runs around doing nothing of importance, ever". If you like them because of FGO, sure, that's fine, but basically nobody does anything to make them interesting in Apocrypha. I doubt I could even name any of the masters, even Mordred's. I also don't remember anything half as interesting as Lancelot's fight with Gil or Seiba fighting Iskander on a motorcycle, but that's just me.  Terper posted:Yeah, the difference made by us having 3 saint quartz per summon from the start really made a huge difference, they should keep giving us less saint quartz until it's evened out. If you're hoping DW will reward you personally for defending their honor on the internet, I'm sorry I have to be the one to tell you they won't be. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 20:34
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Apocrypha was watchable for me. Not the greatest, but not offensively bad. Last Encore however, WAS offensively bad, as we were stuck with a grand total of three characters throughout most of the series, one of which was aggressively and objectively terrible for 90% of the show. Umu was good, but even she struggled to make things interesting when the main person she bounced off of was a plank of wood with angry eyebrows and a frowny face.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:38
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Cuntellectual posted:The dumbest part is that even 100 embers from events isn't enough to max level one welfare servant. They did recently implement doubled XP (and bond!) on welfares for this reason IIRC. It's a pretty nice QoL that makes maxing them less punishing.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:44
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Also thankfully, CCC overlaps with the monthly reset
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Apr 21, 2019 20:50
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Terper posted:Yeah, the difference made by us having 3 saint quartz per summon from the start really made a huge difference, they should keep giving us less saint quartz until it's evened out. In addition to this, I'll also point out that NA having 2 years of clairvoyance about upcoming banners means that they can effectively plan their spending and save up in advance for servants they want, whereas in JP they will drop surprise servants or order banners in such a way to try and drain people's coffers before dropping a better one since nobody knows what's coming, and that's an advantage worth far more than a handful of quartz here and there.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:54
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I'd probably feel less negative about zero if it didn't poison western fate discourse for years. Maybe the western discourse is to blame and the people just suck and not the show
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Apr 21, 2019 20:56
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Cuntellectual posted:Yeah, such memorable characters as "cute girl with bronze link manipulators who I would have forgotten about if not for FGO" or "catgirl archer that runs around doing nothing of importance, ever". picking two of the pretty obviously underwritten characters can i guess reinforce part of my point. Atalante gets an awful showing in Apo outside of being party to one of the standout fight scenes, and Fiore does more to make Chiron endearing than anything of her own. you've also got Semi and Karna sitting around and taking up space to do approximately nothing which is a shame. i can say there are ways in which i wish the series were different but from what we got, the cast has a few standout characters who get to be consistent presences like Astolfo/Mordred/Kairi/Gordes and most others get their Big Moment somewhere like Darnic's scummy corruption of Vlad, the team-up against Avicebron, Chiron vs Achilles, Fran's bond with Caules and eventual burnout which gets called back to have Sieg totally stomp Amakusa's dumb rear end, etc. if you can't name Mordred's master i think it speaks to a big enough gulf in how we experienced the show that there's probably little to discuss like...even people who don't like Apo that much will consistently point to Kairi and Mordred and how they and their relationship are standout parts of the show.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:04
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other jp qol related to the topic is that completion of story chapters now drops a bunch of ascension mats on you, so as you progress it should be a little less of a struggle to ascend units.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:05
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Bakanogami posted:In addition to this, I'll also point out that NA having 2 years of clairvoyance about upcoming banners means that they can effectively plan their spending and save up in advance for servants they want, whereas in JP they will drop surprise servants or order banners in such a way to try and drain people's coffers before dropping a better one since nobody knows what's coming, and that's an advantage worth far more than a handful of quartz here and there. Cool you can plan which servant to spend 500 quartz on and not get Cuntellectual posted:The dumbest part is that even 100 embers from events isn't enough to max level one welfare servant. dogsicle posted:other jp qol related to the topic is that completion of story chapters now drops a bunch of ascension mats on you, so as you progress it should be a little less of a struggle to ascend units. Is that retroactive? Or is it only LBs?
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Apr 21, 2019 21:06
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Oh hey it's a bunch of things that looks like those Muv-Luv aliens. Really wish I had a stronger Saber, though at least I have good ones in my friend list.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:14
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Retroactive to all story chapters.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:16
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, and quests continue to give you 1-3* embers that are completely and utterly useless by the time you're strong enough to be doing those levels in the first place (or hell, pretty much any point beyond a servant reaching level 20-30). 
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Apr 21, 2019 21:17
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Kild posted:Is that retroactive? Or is it only LBs? it's for everything from Fuyuki to LB3
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Apr 21, 2019 21:18
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dogsicle posted:it's for everything from Fuyuki to LB3 Is there a list I can see of what we get?
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Apr 21, 2019 21:33
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Space Flower posted:Maybe the western discourse is to blame and the people just suck and not the show I think the show is like a solid 7.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:41
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I mean keep in mind, Apocrypha anime happened well after FGO was established and Apoc technically was around longer first
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Apr 21, 2019 21:47
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Urobuchi has always been massively overrated as a writer since nerds seem to think that pointless misery tourism is good writing for some reason. Apocrypha is still pretty dire in its own way though.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:54
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Cuntellectual posted:iirc bb is super duper dead by the end of ccc (the game). *in a tommy lee jones voice* I DONT CARE
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Apr 21, 2019 21:55
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Transient People posted:F/Z is really bad cause it totally fails to achieve what it set out to do aside from Iskandar and Waver's relationship. Anytime it's trying to do actual setup for FSN it flops hard. It's better than Apocrypha primarily because Apocrypha's story is terrible AND its fight choreography is garbage, which you can't say for F/Z, but that's not exactly a great achievement. It's kind of bizarre how both Urobuchi and Higashide made much better work in FGO. I found zero entertaining, but I'm not really all that invested in Fate, so that may be a reason.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:15
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i mean drake and gawain and li shuwen are all dead by the end of ccc too
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Apr 21, 2019 22:16
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