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Fate/Zero is held back by the main protagonist being an unlikable sociopath, and it's made only more obvious by the parallel with Kirei also having his own sociopath's journey, culminating in him becoming a compelling antagonist. Kiritsugu's development is fueled by women's lives being ruined, and his bootleg Spike Spiegel design and "bad rear end" methods didn't do him any favors in my eyes. On the other hand, Zero is consistently gorgeous to look at, with an amazing cast bringing some great performances, and very memorable battles and set pieces littered throughout. Fate Apocrypha is an anime... or an action figure ad, I'm not sure. With a bloated cast of characters... and a piece of cardboard vaguely shaped like a shounen protagonist. Most of them get no development or screen time... unless they're relevant to the inanimate object they mistook for the main character. It has three superbly animated fight scenes, and the rest is nothing but people stiffly pressing swords or awkwardly shooting generic laser daggers/arrows/lightning/magic at each other. The soundtrack's excellent, but thankfully you can listen to it without suffering through Apocrypha. Ruby Prism fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 22:21
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i heard all the servants are dead
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Apr 21, 2019 22:21
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BB isn't(wasn't?) a servant, which made being dead somewhat more of an obstacle.Kild posted:Cool you can plan which servant to spend 500 quartz on and not get Have you considered you just don't deserve them?
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Apr 21, 2019 22:24
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Also CCC isn't part of the extella timeline anyways lol
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Apr 21, 2019 22:30
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I wouldn’t call kiritsugu a sociopath, he’s more like a complete moron surrounded by other complete morons. You really get a sense that the entire mages’ world is dumb as hell from top to bottom.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:33
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Gilles constantly referring to Saber as Jeanne was a good joke. That's my Fate/Zero take.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:34
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Extella is dumb and sucks.  Kild posted:Is there a list I can see of what we get? I don't know where a summarized one is, but there's every one here. https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Quest Billzasilver posted:I wouldn’t call kiritsugu a sociopath, he’s more like a complete moron surrounded by other complete morons. You really get a sense that the entire mages’ world is dumb as hell from top to bottom. Keep in mind that "treating the incredibly powerful ghosts that can kill you on a whim with respect" is a bit too high-level a concept for most mages.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:35
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ZiegeDame posted:Gilles constantly referring to Saber as Jeanne was a good joke. That's my Fate/Zero take. That gag exists because Urobochi thought himself that Saber was Jeanne at first when he played the VN.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:37
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Cuntellectual posted:If you're hoping DW will reward you personally for defending their honor on the internet, I'm sorry I have to be the one to tell you they won't be. You make some incredibly bad faith and genuinely obnoxious comments, but this one triples as being bad faith, obnoxious, and condescending so congrats on that trifecta I guess.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:37
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Captain Baal posted:You make some incredibly bad faith and genuinely obnoxious comments, but this one triples as being bad faith, obnoxious, and condescending so congrats on that trifecta I guess. Thank you.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:38
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Stairmaster posted:Also CCC isn't part of the extella timeline anyways lol What is part of the Extella storyline since what I know of Extella makes it make no sense to follow from Extra.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:16
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Stairmaster posted:Also CCC isn't part of the extella timeline anyways lol It is, it's just glossed over with a 'oh and ccc happens now' in the blog-only summary by Nasu on exactly what led to the Extella timeline because nothing makes any goddamn sense.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:20
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Mage society is pretty much a garbage fire from top to bottom. When Rin talks about how mages are god drat monsters, she isn't speaking in hyperbole. Her possessing something of a conscience is considered a huge exception, not a rule amongst Magekind. Most mages would gut you with an honest to god smile their faces and then harvest your body parts for use in some twisted experiment. You know in Apocrypha, how the Black Faction grows Homonculii by the hundreds solely to use their souls as replaceable batteries for the Servants? 99% of Mages would look at that, shrug their shoulders, and think 'Sounds legit', and then go back to not caring about anything other than expanding their own power base.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:25
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The original master of Jack the Ripper in Apoc was going to sacrifice a prostitute as a catalyst.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:38
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apocrypha ftw, zero fail
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Apr 21, 2019 23:42
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Cuntellectual posted:Keep in mind that "treating the incredibly powerful ghosts that can kill you on a whim with respect" is a bit too high-level a concept for most mages. Tokiomi did this but chose precisely the wrong servant to do so.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:51
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Mages can be summarized by that one guy in Strange Fake who killed his wife and kid because the kid wasn't a good enough mage, getting killed and thinking "well at least I have an heir" 
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Apr 21, 2019 23:55
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I remember my brother watching the KnK movies with me and seeing what Araya Souren was doing just said "Wizards are terrible." TL:DR  ]
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Apr 22, 2019 00:11
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I am continuously amazed by my ability to forget which day it is when it comes to training grounds, and need to wait a week more for that one statue/monument, and then forget again. 
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Apr 22, 2019 00:18
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Dr Pepper posted:I remember my brother watching the KnK movies with me and seeing what Araya Souren was doing just said "Wizards are terrible." Less 'No Sense of Right and Wrong' and more 'Taking lessons on Extreme Puppy Kicking from age 5.'
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Apr 22, 2019 00:45
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I like to think Rin, her wrestling rival or whatever her name is, and Waver could clean up the clock tower. Mages are dumb and bad and need to be decent human beings, imo
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Apr 22, 2019 01:03
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It turns out all humans can summon upwards of 200 servants if they’re not morally bankrupt rear end in a top hat mages
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Apr 22, 2019 01:22
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Sophism posted:Fate/Zero is held back by the main protagonist being an unlikable sociopath, and it's made only more obvious by the parallel with Kirei also having his own sociopath's journey, culminating in him becoming a compelling antagonist. Kiritsugu's development is fueled by women's lives being ruined, and his bootleg Spike Spiegel design and "bad rear end" methods didn't do him any favors in my eyes. On the other hand, Zero is consistently gorgeous to look at, with an amazing cast bringing some great performances, and very memorable battles and set pieces littered throughout. I think that part of what makes F/Z so enjoyable is that pretty much everyone is a huge fuckup, especially Kiritsugu. For all his badass stylings, I never got the impression that he was supposed to come off as a particularly cool guy, especially given his rare but potent bouts of anxious, childish hand-wringing and the fact that he even bought into the concept of the HGW, which is recognized by about any mage who knows what they're doing (and Gilgamesh) as being pretty farcical. If you want to see what Urobuchi actually considers to be a badass protagonist, watch puppets and apocrypha's manga is good because ishida akira is a loving good artist
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Apr 22, 2019 01:26
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My biggest takeaway from F/Z, other than depression, was that when you get right down to it, Waver was the real winner of that Grail War.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:37
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the_steve posted:My biggest takeaway from F/Z, other than depression, was that when you get right down to it, Waver was the real winner of that Grail War. He really did come out with the best experience of just about any participant we know about. Shirou/Rin/etc may have survived, but they were beaten up or almost killed a bunch of times, while Waver got to spend pretty much all of his time riding around in a flying chariot with a cool dude.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:46
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OnimaruXLR posted:I think that part of what makes F/Z so enjoyable is that pretty much everyone is a huge fuckup, especially Kiritsugu. For all his badass stylings, I never got the impression that he was supposed to come off as a particularly cool guy, especially given his rare but potent bouts of anxious, childish hand-wringing and the fact that he even bought into the concept of the HGW, which is recognized by about any mage who knows what they're doing (and Gilgamesh) as being pretty farcical. Sho Fu Kan loving rules and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.  If that dude was added I'd save for him for the full two year delay.Also Enigmatic Gale is basically Merlin.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:48
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Bakanogami posted:He really did come out with the best experience of just about any participant we know about. Shirou/Rin/etc may have survived, but they were beaten up or almost killed a bunch of times, while Waver got to spend pretty much all of his time riding around in a flying chariot with a cool dude. Shirou and Rin didn't see what was in the sewers
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Apr 22, 2019 02:03
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Shinjuku's pretty neat so far. I'm only a few chapters in because the AP isn't halved. Crime dad is kinda boring but Jalter and Alter Altria poo poo-talking each other is just the best. I'm a little annoyed that we're running away from mannequins and ruffians though. At this point, after all we have defeated, I feel like we should be way more confident when it comes to killing things that aren't even immortal.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:09
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Managed to finish Solomon and the pre-release quest just in time so pretty happy about that. All in all I quite enjoyed the story from America to Babylon Imo Babylon was heads and tails above the rest as far as writing goes and made me a lil sad I didn't try and roll for Quetzalcoatl MVP was definitely the level 100 Jalter on my friends list and of course super support Waver.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:32
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Shinjobi posted:I like to think Rin, her wrestling rival or whatever her name is, and Waver could clean up the clock tower. Mages are dumb and bad and need to be decent human beings, imo Consider that Waver actually ranks pretty highly despite having extremely little innate magical power and the fact that Mages sports extreme hard-ons for lineage and so on. e: Consider also that Gudako managed to outrank Rin, despite the fact Gudako's magical ability shouldn't qualify her to change the coke in the vending machines in the clock tower. v: Roger Explosion posted:Shinjuku's pretty neat so far. "Shouldn't we be able to swat these guys no problem, considering what we've already beaten?" is one of those things you're just going to kinda have to roll with.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:32
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Cuntellectual posted:"Shouldn't we be able to swat these guys no problem, considering what we've already beaten?" is one of those things you're just going to kinda have to roll with. Meet my friends Herc and Waver, dickhead. A couple of Japanese teenagers with stupid hair and lead pipes? JESUS CHRIST, FUKKEN BOOK IT.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:43
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Roger Explosion posted:Shinjuku's pretty neat so far. Mash is busy so you need to stop acting so recklessly
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Apr 22, 2019 02:45
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Honestly, there are probably a fair chunk of mages, likely the majority, that more fall into line with Tokiomi, than the complete monsters we see in the various works. Generally fairly amoral, but also generally not explicitly doing monstrous stuff either for a variety of reasons. Touko's probably another decent example of the personality of a more typical magus. It's just kind of harder to set up your antagonist as that guy in the geology department doing strange experiments with quartz, or whatever.Shinjobi posted:I like to think Rin, her wrestling rival or whatever her name is, and Waver could clean up the clock tower. Mages are dumb and bad and need to be decent human beings, imo Luviagelita Edelfelt, no matter how much sources love to play around with her ojou-sama persona, is just as amoral as most magi. The Edelfelt family in general are basically known as a clan of battle-obsessed mercenaries, with very good reason, and despite her appearance and affectations she's very much a scion of the family. She's also quite literally hired an assassin in the past to go after someone she really didn't like at the time (Waver, incidentally).
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Apr 22, 2019 02:48
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Quick note the most important notes in Kerry's character arc existed before Urobuchi ever touched the script so I don't think you can put the blame on him alone. btw, I found this and it's funny to me: quote:By the way, my intention was to make Kiritsugu as much of a heretical gunman as he is a heretical magus, so I purposefully chose his equipment based on coolness factor rather than practicality. Please, please, please don't think that the weapons that show up in Fate/Zero are the standard for actual professional soldiers. Gologle posted:That's the official story, yeah, but IIRC in this very thread someone allegedly said that NP damage is somehow tied to animation. But if they actually wanted to do it that wouldn't stop them. Making a NP skip toggle in the settings screen would be trivial. Making a skip button would be trickier but not super hard either. Kyte fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 03:16
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I found the One Neat Trick for dealing with those Lahmu assholes - Saber Shiki Ryougi, whose death from her NP seems to always work on them (at least with the one on my friend list who has maxed out skills). Almost done with Babylonia now. edit lol, "Worry not, it is only a mortal wound!" Billzasilver posted:Mash is busy so you need to stop acting so recklessly Keep in mind that most of the fights against uber-strong things involve you having powerful help. Like, I'm pretty sure that "canonically" you're dealing with all the super strong enemies with the help of Ishtar/Quetzalcoatl/etc. You usually don't fight those enemies with just Mash in your party. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 03:20
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Roger Explosion posted:Shinjuku's pretty neat so far. I think they sort-of handwave it with your Servants not following with the bad connection at the start but yeah it's pretty weak.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:23
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FYI you don't actually run around with Herc and co. in tow. If they don't show up in the story they're not there. The servants you fight with are short-term mini-summons.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:27
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Later on they actually make you do some quests with just Mash and story summons. Spoiler: it sucks.  Ytlaya posted:I found the One Neat Trick for dealing with those Lahmu assholes - Saber Shiki Ryougi, whose death from her NP seems to always work on them (at least with the one on my friend list who has maxed out skills). Regular or Bel Lahmu? Bel Lahmu have a 1% or 0.2% depending on if they're Saber or Beast II classed. Kyte posted:btw, I found this and it's funny to me: That actually explains a lot.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:31
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Lord Koth posted:Luviagelita Edelfelt, no matter how much sources love to play around with her ojou-sama persona, is just as amoral as most magi. The Edelfelt family in general are basically known as a clan of battle-obsessed mercenaries, with very good reason, and despite her appearance and affectations she's very much a scion of the family. She's also quite literally hired an assassin in the past to go after someone she really didn't like at the time (Waver, incidentally). Oh good, now I can just root for Rin to win everytime against her, then.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:34
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Roger Explosion posted:Shinjuku's pretty neat so far. It might be best to hold off on Shinjuku right now and just prepare for CCC. You have to fight several Avenger bosses in Shinjuku, and BB's Moon Cancer class is the only class that resists them.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:39
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