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JustJeff88 posted:I see your point, and admittedly I was much, much younger then. Perhaps talking to them about it might have helped, but through the mists of time I'm sceptical of that as I think that they were just immature and didn't want to do anything but fight. Even if one has never played D&D before, and these people knew a fair amount about it, I would think that people would naturally realise "We are low-level characters and that is a large blue dragon" and scarper or hide or throw him a literal sacrificial lamb. I think that, on top of just wanting to fight poo poo, they thought that they were heroes and would always win in the end which, to be fair, kind of makes sense. After all, if all of the PCs die, not much else to do. In a video game the player reloads... in a P&P game there isn't a convenient reset button. Some of this is an expectation mismatch (like playing a CRPG that scales combat encounter difficulty to your current party versus one where you can wander into the high-level area and get instantly murdered) and some of it is signaling, but the key in any event is the post-mortem conversation: "you guys are level 2 and that was a full-grown dragon, why did you attack it?" Sometimes it's impatience or even stupidity, but often it's either mismatched expectations for the game or a genuine or role-played ignorance of what to you, as GM, seems obvious. Someone who knows the damage of an adult blue dragon's breath weapon isn't going to start a combat with a level 2 character with even the slightest metagame willingness. I'd say mismatched expectations as one of the most common inexperienced GM problems. It is extremely easy to forget the knowledge and information gap between you and the players and assume that they know something that you needed to signal to them, or expect them to behave as you would with your perspective forgetting that they have incomplete information. One of the advanced GM skills is learning how to exploit that information gap to terrify PCs with things that should indeed be scary but which are not, stat-wise, as dangerous as they might seem. One of my favorite examples of this: my PCs were fighting over a ruin with some powerful foes, and got a report that a formidable third faction had gotten completely wiped out without any clear sign of the enemy having done it. They went to investigate, finding signs of some powerful magic and other scary stuff, whereup they ran into a mixed party of their original foes, who had also heard the news and were themselves investigating. The PCs weren't prepped for a fight, thought the group they encountered might be the ones who overpowered the third faction, and tried for a fighting withdrawal convinced that they were inches from a TPK. The enemy scouting party, unbeknownest to them, was in almost exactly the same situation, convinced the PCs were massively powerful and desperate to make a fighting withdrawal. Because neither group had an easy teleport option, the ensuing fight was bizarre, because each side wanted to escalate just enough to create an opening to run, without forcing the other side to deploy the killing resources which they thought were being held in reserve. Making an encounter like that work relies upon training your players that yes, you are the sort of GM who would open an adventure line by introducing powerful new enemies via having the party run across the adventure end bosses, en masse, in an initial encounter that's meant to be escaped. If you're too adversarial, they'd be convinced running is pointless and fight to the death. If you're too forgiving, they'll figure that no encounter can really threaten them and fight to the death. If they don't have any understanding of how you as GM assemble stories, they may misread the situation and fight to the death. (Of course, since this situation wasn't what it seemed, they could probably have won the encounter had they gone all-in, and as it was they managed to force their foes to use their costly teleport first. Note that the foes were mostly spellcasters; 5e MM monsters without modification don't usually have enough combat options to make something like this work.)
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Apr 20, 2019 14:16
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JustJeff88 posted:I see your point, and admittedly I was much, much younger then. Perhaps talking to them about it might have helped, but through the mists of time I'm sceptical of that as I think that they were just immature and didn't want to do anything but fight. Even if one has never played D&D before, and these people knew a fair amount about it, I would think that people would naturally realise "We are low-level characters and that is a large blue dragon" and scarper or hide or throw him a literal sacrificial lamb. I think that, on top of just wanting to fight poo poo, they thought that they were heroes and would always win in the end which, to be fair, kind of makes sense. After all, if all of the PCs die, not much else to do. In a video game the player reloads... in a P&P game there isn't a convenient reset button. Communicating is how you sort this out. Gnome Stew, an advice site for GMs, has a lot of articles on what's called the social contract and how to make sure everyone's on the same page. This can also help a lot: https://bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool/
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Apr 20, 2019 14:30
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I've 6 or so family members looking to learn how to play D&D today, I haven't played since 4th edition, is there a recommended starter kit or something that can accommodate that many players?
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Apr 20, 2019 15:07
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panascope posted:I've 6 or so family members looking to learn how to play D&D today, I haven't played since 4th edition, is there a recommended starter kit or something that can accommodate that many players? The Lost Mine of Phandelver is included in the D&D Starter Set. It's a quite accessible dungeon crawl and designed for 4-6 players. You can pick up just the adventure either digitally or in hard copy, or get the starter set which also includes some dice, pre-gen characters, and an essential rules guide (basically a stripped-down version of the Player's Handbook). http://slyflourish.com/starting_strong_at_your_first_dnd_game.html https://www.dndbeyond.com/marketplace/source/8 https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Starter-Set-Roleplaying/dp/0786965592 Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Apr 20, 2019 |
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Apr 20, 2019 15:28
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Kaal posted:The Lost Mine of Phandelver is included in the D&D Starter Set. It's a quite accessible dungeon crawl and designed for 4-6 players. You can pick up just the adventure either digitally or in hard copy, or get the starter set which also includes some dice, pre-gen characters, and an essential rules guide (basically a stripped-down version of the Player's Handbook). Exactly what I'm looking for, thank you!
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Apr 20, 2019 15:34
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panascope posted:Exactly what I'm looking for, thank you! Have fun! Depending on your players comfort levels with the combat, you may find that you'll want to add an extra goblin here and there to accommodate the larger party.
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Apr 20, 2019 15:43
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I've played Phandelver as a player and it's the first time we all played pregen characters. I really enjoyed this because the pregens all had a decent tie to the situation going on. I was the nobleman, I called myself Edward Charleston III Esq.
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Apr 20, 2019 16:35
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Arivia posted:Communicating is how you sort this out. Gnome Stew, an advice site for GMs, has a lot of articles on what's called the social contract and how to make sure everyone's on the same page. This can also help a lot: https://bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool/ That's good stuff, especially the "figure out what game you're playing, don't try to meet in the middle, mashing different styles together never works, no tool will help you find a common ground that doesn't exist" theme.
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Apr 20, 2019 23:34
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Trip report: the little starter box was perfect and everyone had a good time. I should’ve scaled up Klarg’s health a bit since he nearly died in one round of combat but other than that it was really fun.
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Apr 21, 2019 06:41
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panascope posted:he nearly died in one round of combat That's just level 1 and also for everyone
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Apr 21, 2019 06:48
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panascope posted:Trip report: the little starter box was perfect and everyone had a good time. I should’ve scaled up Klarg’s health a bit since he nearly died in one round of combat but other than that it was really fun. That's great! I'm glad to hear that it went well.
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Apr 21, 2019 11:26
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So, you Web (20' cube) a Huge creature (15'x15') and set the web on fire. How much damage does the creature take at the start of its turn and why? And how much bullshit was it that the DM ruled 54d6?
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Apr 21, 2019 18:48
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if your DM thinks larger creatures take more damage because you're counting by 5 foot squares, remind them that it should then logically apply to every aoe i think the "real" RAW ruling is another victim of natural language, and that the burning away of each cube and the 'deals 2d4 damage to any creature' is a separate event and it's one instance of damage, in the same way that you only make one saving throw for the web when you try and move, no matter how big you are. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 18:51
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Toshimo posted:And how much bullshit was it that the DM ruled 54d6? 
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Apr 21, 2019 19:15
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:That's good stuff, especially the "figure out what game you're playing, don't try to meet in the middle, mashing different styles together never works, no tool will help you find a common ground that doesn't exist" theme. The importance of everyone being on the same page can't be understated. That's especially true in horror-oriented campaigns: you can readily have the party joking around so long as everyone is willing to shift into taking a horrific scene or situation seriously; it only takes one player to ruin things for everyone. Toshimo posted:So, you Web (20' cube) a Huge creature (15'x15') and set the web on fire. How much damage does the creature take at the start of its turn and why? I'm going to go with 15 cubic feet of bullshit. I suggest that you troll your GM by purchasing ten vials of acid, sticking them in a sack, throwing the sack at someone as an improvised melee weapon and arguing that they take 20d6 acid damage. Heck with it, just tie ten torches together in a bundle, light them all, and wield them as a weapon dealing 10 fire damage per hit.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:17
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Toshimo posted:So, you Web (20' cube) a Huge creature (15'x15') and set the web on fire. How much damage does the creature take at the start of its turn and why? Fire, well, that probably does, say 2d6 damage, a value I pulled right out of my rear end. And the monster takes up 3 times 3 squares and is 3 squares tall, so that’s 3 to the 3rd power. Quid pro quo, that’s 54d6 damage.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:26
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I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:27
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Toshimo posted:So, you Web (20' cube) a Huge creature (15'x15') and set the web on fire. How much damage does the creature take at the start of its turn and why? Imagine being encased in a giant roasting marshmallow.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:31
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The Missing Link posted:Imagine being encased in a giant roasting marshmallow. 
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Apr 21, 2019 19:33
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Bustin makes me feel good
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Apr 21, 2019 20:05
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change my name posted:I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:36
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change my name posted:I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well. Paladin/Sorcerer also works pretty well as a magic swords mans, since you can use your sorcerer spells known to cover versatility and convert your slots into Smites when you need to smash face.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:40
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change my name posted:I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well. Fighter 1 / Sorcerer X can work by way of focusing on your martial ability scores and using Save DC-agnostic spellcasting as a supplement, but Paladin 2/Sorcerer X and Sorcerer X/Hexblade 1-2 dip pull the armored sword & magic wielding warrior concept off much better - the former allows you to turn spell slots into damage through Divine Smite, while the latter consolidates your ability scores by allowing you to use CHA for both melee attacks and spellcasting. Either way, what you're looking for is using the melee cantrips (Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade) in lieu of standard attacks, taking advantage of how they naturally scale with your character level and that when the situation calls for it can be combined with Metamagic (Twinned Spell and Quickened) for additional attacks. Shield and Absorb Elements help keep your rear end safe, and as you go up in levels you'll gain access to various buffs that Twinned allows you to share like Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil, Haste, Greater Invisibility. Other melee spellcaster options: Valor and Swords Bard: well, the archetypes give you some melee prowess, but ultimately the Bard spell list just doesn't supplement melee combat so there's no synergy here. Strong because Bards are inherently strong, but you're better off casting spells than pretending you can swing a weapon. You can try mashing Paladin 2 and Hexblade 1-2 with Swords Bard, but (Draconic) Sorcerer remains the superior combat combination due to the aforementioned reason. Bladesinger: a Wizard with concentration and AC buffs. It used to be that you were better off sticking to the back because despite the buffs you're still a Wizard so why would you not cast spells, but XGtE added the Shadow Blade spell, making a very compelling argument for Bladesingers to dive into the thick of it and deal the big damages. Particularly for Elves and their Elven Accuracy feat. Like Sorcerers they have access to the arcane caster protection suite, and because they're Wizards they have Rituals for utility. Eldritch Knight: the tough fighter chassis, but with a very limited spell selection. It's pointless to try and be good at magic so you just grab the protection suite, utility cantrips and maybe Find Familiar, and call it a day. The interesting combos you can pull off here are staff/spear & shield wielding War Caster+Polearm Master+Booming Blade for tankyness and strong reaction attacks, or going the DEX route and enjoying that you get to grab Shadow Blade at level 8 when you need to go all out. Paladin: well, duh. This is *the* melee spellcasting class, no fiddling required. Hexblade: so-so. Taken on its own it just comes off as a flimsier Paladin if you want to melee focus tbqh, and its better off just shooting EB like all Warlocks.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:28
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change my name posted:I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well. Going Paly/ Sorcerer or Eldritch Knight would probably work better for you.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:30
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change my name posted:I've been DMing a game for my friends for the last year, but want to join a second game somewhere else as a player and have been messing around with character ideas. I've been working on a battle master fighter with a few draconic sorcerer levels thrown in for versatility/extra movement and combat adaptability (but the exact balance would depend on what level the new group is playing at). Are melee/spellcasting characters usually inferior at doing both? I tried playing a similar jack-of-all-trades ranger once and it didn't work out too well. I'm having a lot of fun playing a Hobgoblin Wizard of the Warmage school. Very specific race/class/subclass combo but super fun, Int to Init, multiple chances to apply boosts to attack, def, saves, etc. Not a blade singer.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:31
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Hmm, I didn't consider going the paladin route because I wanted to make a lawful evil character (even though I know it's not an alignment-specific class in 5e), and eldritch knight kind of seems like it sucks based on the few spells you have access to. War mage seems like something I could mess around with though.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:38
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Maybe a silly question, but copying spells from spellbooks/scrolls is not an exclusive thing to wizards right? Any spellcasting class is able to do it?
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Apr 21, 2019 23:15
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The Shame Boy posted:Maybe a silly question, but copying spells from spellbooks/scrolls is not an exclusive thing to wizards right? Any spellcasting class is able to do it? It is exclusive to wizards, pact of the tome warlocks, and Ritual Masters.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:36
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Yeah the idea is that it isn't as simple as [Spell Name] - [Components] - [Words] but that you need to understand the intricacy of what you're doing, having practiced it many times and written down exactly what worked for you. Instead of being a Bard that plays a flute and the magic just happens.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:59
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The Shame Boy posted:Maybe a silly question, but copying spells from spellbooks/scrolls is not an exclusive thing to wizards right? Any spellcasting class is able to do it? Wizards get the spellbook. Other classes get Inspiration or Metamagic or something. And as Toshimo mentioned Tome locks can copy any ritual.
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Apr 22, 2019 00:31
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Arthil posted:Yeah the idea is that it isn't as simple as [Spell Name] - [Components] - [Words] but that you need to understand the intricacy of what you're doing, having practiced it many times and written down exactly what worked for you. If rituals were literally just recipes with no special skills necessarily required, I wonder if everyone would go through a phase where they get a ritual book for wintermas, make a new year's reslution to take up ritual casting as a hobby, and then three weeks into the new year have already shoved that book into the drawer under the hob alongside the potion mixer, never to be seen again.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:09
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Toshimo posted:So, you Web (20' cube) a Huge creature (15'x15') and set the web on fire. How much damage does the creature take at the start of its turn and why? Interestingly, spiderwebs aren't particularly flammable. It's a common trope, but it's the dust that collects on old webs that actually ignites when burned. But yeah the real answer is 2d4 damage for being caught in the fire. The web burns in 5' segments as it is exposed to flame. It's not a secret megafireball that only requires a second-level spell and a torch. Kaal fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 03:42
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"I enlarge my opponent"
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Apr 22, 2019 04:05
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Alternatively, all small creatures have inherent resistance to AOE attacks. They dodge BETWEEN the fireballs! Tiny creatures are simply immune.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:57
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Burning Hands is a 15' cone, which hits a 3x3x3 volume by default rules. So that's 81d6 against that big spider for hitting all it's squares, pretty nice, right?
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Apr 22, 2019 05:07
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Reveilled posted:If rituals were literally just recipes with no special skills necessarily required, I wonder if everyone would go through a phase where they get a ritual book for wintermas, make a new year's reslution to take up ritual casting as a hobby, and then three weeks into the new year have already shoved that book into the drawer under the hob alongside the potion mixer, never to be seen again. That's kinda how it works in Eberron, except it's more like a Locksmith makes a living being able to ritually cast and undo Arcane locks at a small component cost.
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Apr 22, 2019 05:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:That's kinda how it works in Eberron, except it's more like a Locksmith makes a living being able to ritually cast and undo Arcane locks at a small component cost. Campaign idea: ritual caster, except all the rituals are just apps. One ritual casts Google Maps. One ritual casts Tinder. One ritual casts TaskRabbit.
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Apr 22, 2019 05:38
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How do y'all handle the inevitable progression to revolving-door afterlife? Like it really deflates the magnitude of the situation when the king's been assassinated and the party cleric goes "raise dead is like 500gp a pop guys"
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Apr 22, 2019 05:54
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Malpais Legate posted:How do y'all handle the inevitable progression to revolving-door afterlife? Like it really deflates the magnitude of the situation when the king's been assassinated and the party cleric goes "raise dead is like 500gp a pop guys" Just don't include it? Or it's only for PCs? Or it doesn't work if you were killed by a Hero or Antihero? (ie by a named plot-important entity). Like if some trash mob or guard kills you then that can be an inconvenience but if Dude Dangerblade or Bad McGuy kill you then you're capital Deep poo poo Dead. E: relatedly: you need a professional killer who knows how to do it so that it sticks. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 06:05
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Malpais Legate posted:How do y'all handle the inevitable progression to revolving-door afterlife? Like it really deflates the magnitude of the situation when the king's been assassinated and the party cleric goes "raise dead is like 500gp a pop guys" That's a very good question that I've seen come up in campaigns, but I have two suggestions: Firstly, we kind of had an unwritten rule even in 2nd edition, where raising the dead was a hefty problem, that people had both a maximum lifespan - if 88 year old human granny dies in her sleep, her time is up and she had a good run - and a choice as to whether to be raised or not for people who die before their time. In the case of the players, we would obviously choose to come back, but some people would rather just enjoy the peace of the afterlife. This was actually a moment in one of the Cleric Quintet novels where Cadderly's elderly mentor and a young friend of his are killed by an assassin group that's after Cadderly. Cadderly is a powerful loving cleric (literally breaks all the rules) and brings back the young chap with ease, but he can't bring back the older cleric no matter what. Later, the elderly cleric's spirit tells him that he's very happy spending the afterlife with their deity and wishes him well, which Cadderly accepts. I found that very touching. In the specific case of royalty, there was actually a book set in Cormyr, a famous kingdom of the Forgotten Realms. At one point, the crotchety old court magician tells the princess that it is literally law that, if a member of the royal family days, they cannot be resurrected as it may create problems with the succession of the crown. That might be one way around a similar situation.
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Apr 22, 2019 06:06
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