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this epilogue I think ranks as the best thing that I cannot recommend to anyone step aside, dwarf fortress and cats Arsenic Lupin posted:Spoiler for MEAT, do not read until you've been there. and a running quote too https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahomestuck.com+%22combat%2C+philosophy%2C+life%2C+love%22 and I don't think that's an exhaustive list of calls to it? it didn't ping while I was reading it except for 'oh hey its that catchphrase'- why does Gamzee tutor Tavros Crocker along those lines? something Dirk stuck in there before killing himself? I feel like he was in at least some narrative control of candy until he decided to focus efforts on meat, I'm just not sure how much.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:00
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I was gonna say that despite knowing how Caliborn's Masterpiece went down more or less and that actually going through the motions seemed kinda pointless, it actually started seeming interesting in the lead-up, then it skipped over going through the motions anyway. Which I guess has been the tone of the Meat updates mostly, skimming over reunions and conversations with disinterest born of being sort of tired with everything but grinding out What The Plot Requires. Meanwhile in the Candy updates it's extremely funny that Dave and Karkat getting along in the post-retcon seemed to arrest their development relative to who they were in the pre-retcon timeline. Meanwhile Jade is also doing a weird job bullying them because she's trying to make this polygon work and it's not clear at any point if they're into it? Looking forward to the Meat updates showing what the gently caress went down when Vriska deployed the Homestuck Logo at Lord English already. Dolash fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 01:04
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Dolash posted:Looking forward to the Meat updates showing what the gently caress went down when Vriska deployed the Homestuck Logo at Lord English already. Meat spoiler: Am I the only one who read Vriska’s reaction to that as a very blatant “this is you, this is what you sound like” at the post-Act 7 fanbase
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Apr 22, 2019 01:08
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Peanut Butler posted:it didn't ping while I was reading it except for 'oh hey its that catchphrase'- why does Gamzee tutor Tavros Crocker along those lines? something Dirk stuck in there before killing himself? I feel like he was in at least some narrative control of candy until he decided to focus efforts on meat, I'm just not sure how much. It's a case of circumstantial simultaniety, letting you know that Gamzee's relationship with Tavros Crocker will do him absolutely no good at all, in case there was any gosh-darn doubt.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:13
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^^^ e: oh this makes sense, yeah- it definitely works as being ominous, even before someone on the internet points out the motif Dolash posted:I was gonna say that despite knowing how Caliborn's Masterpiece went down more or less and that actually going through the motions seemed kinda pointless[spoiler], it actually started seeming interesting in the lead-up, then it skipped over going through the motions anyway. Which I guess has been the tone of the Meat updates mostly, skimming over reunions and conversations with disinterest born of being sort of tired with everything but grinding out What The Plot Requires. aw hey yeah for sure- the time spent inside the juju is really heavy-handed, in retrospect (that's probably the best way to be heavy-handed) Peanut Butler fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 01:16
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Man Jake sucks but everyone exploiting him all the time also sucks. Also there's something great about the idea that being unable to square the Jade-Dave-Karkat fandom shipping triangle is an issue of existential, cosmological importance that requires Dave to explain to John how he's accidentally divided the universe in half.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:48
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Yeah, the Jake-hatred from the lilypads onward has unnerved me. I don't like seeing people go "Whoa, there's a total loser, let's kick him in the nuts!"
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Apr 22, 2019 02:01
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yeah, the Jake-hatred from the lilypads onward has unnerved me. I don't like seeing people go "Whoa, there's a total loser, let's kick him in the nuts!" Meat casts a lot of light on this. Grim, upsetting light, but definitely light that involves the narrative acknowledging and ameliorating this.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yeah, the Jake-hatred from the lilypads onward has unnerved me. I don't like seeing people go "Whoa, there's a total loser, let's kick him in the nuts!" Me too, which is why i like the eventual revelation in meat that its outside manipulation
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Apr 22, 2019 02:05
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ArfJason posted:Me too, which is why i like the eventual revelation in meat that its outside manipulation Imma have to reread, but do you mean by Dirk? But on the lilypads, he wasn't yet in control of the narrative. And nobody was defending Jake from Vriska's attacks.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:09
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I mean, I've said this before. People have always said that Jake is dumb or even brain-damaged, and there's really no outside evidence on this. It's just something said by people for whom it's convenient to believe that Jake should do what they want and not what he wants.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:10
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Yeah that Vriska sucked anyway. Kinda hope pre-retcon Vriska is around and hasn't been eaten by the black hole too.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:19
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Who knows who was controlling what narrative, whenever
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Apr 22, 2019 02:34
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Imma have to reread, but do you mean by Dirk? But on the lilypads, he wasn't yet in control of the narrative. And nobody was defending Jake from Vriska's attacks. I think unintentionally controlling him through brain ghost dirk was possible, even if he wasnt aware of that splinter
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Apr 22, 2019 02:36
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yeah, the Jake-hatred from the lilypads onward has unnerved me. I don't like seeing people go "Whoa, there's a total loser, let's kick him in the nuts!" The last person to be nice to Jake without wanting something in return was the sprite version of Tavros, probably why he named his kid after him.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:38
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The last person to be nice to Jake without wanting something in return was the sprite version of Tavros, probably why he named his kid after him. Oh, good catch.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:47
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On balance, I did prefer the work of the other orange guy.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:54
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The last person to be nice to Jake without wanting something in return was the sprite version of Tavros, probably why he named his kid after him.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:58
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Android Blues posted:an obscenely long, coarse kermit cock is dragging across my anguished face if i see one more pert, felt buttock just kind of jutting out
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Apr 22, 2019 05:11
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Going back to my re-read, I love the sentence "I am unphased by your human bluhs."
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Apr 22, 2019 05:36
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The idea of a character in the story achieving a very specific apotheosis, becoming the narrator of the story, deliberately controlling the thoughts of the characters in order to affect a particular ending, contending with another ascended character-narrator, and taking on an increasingly vile antagonistic role as he lashes out in narcissistic rage is MSPA as hell.
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Apr 22, 2019 06:04
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I really don't give a poo poo about the revolutionary narratives this thing is trying to build, it just reads like misery porn to me and I feel lesser for having read it. The alternate timeline me that didn't read this dreck got the better break IMO.
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Apr 22, 2019 06:29
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I can't believe that the meat route is an attempt to make that Detective Pony fanfic canon, while the candy route makes the "Eridan is Obama" meme canon. fascinating move by hussie.
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Apr 22, 2019 06:40
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Bikindok posted:I really don't give a poo poo about the revolutionary narratives this thing is trying to build, it just reads like misery porn to me and I feel lesser for having read it. The alternate timeline me that didn't read this dreck got the better break IMO. ok
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Apr 22, 2019 07:47
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Davepeta, being the Actual 100% Original Dave - in fact I think maybe the only character who's in their original incarnation, albeit sprite'd and Nepeta'd - is the True Hero of Homestuck in the end. Jesus that final battle was actually brutal and a little effective for actually playing out a big fight instead of offscreening it for laughs or shorting out in an anticlimax. And Dirk you are an impressive piece of poo poo, holy poo poo. Dolash fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 08:08
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Android Blues posted:I can see the argument, and I think it's basically the argument the text is trying to make, but I just don't think the thrust of the work supports it. Like: I was mulling this over in my head last night and was going to say basically the same thing as you. Guess you beat me to the punch. I'd buy the supposed twist at the end of Candy, and John subsequently being told off for not considering others perspectives, a lot more if we didn't have direct evidence of the characters thoughts and personalities being affected by it. Rose and John both immediately do a mental 180 on the the choice and can't even really remember why they thought it was so important. The narrative makes it very clear that they ARE different but then tries to convince you that they weren't. John may not have gotten an insight into the characters heads but WE did. I do think that it is intended to be a fake out. We're getting those talks at the end and the alleged reveal that John was overthinking things at the same time that Vriska is noting that the world actually does seem to revolve around him. The one I was really sad for in Candy was Calliope. Roxy just cutting things off with her so she can go have a fake-as-poo poo "real human relationship" with John was hosed up and really awful. At least they seemed to have gotten close again at the end but man was Candy!Roxy terrible.
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Apr 22, 2019 08:31
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So help me if Dirk's "adapting" to the Ultimate Self situation that lets him endure it where Rose suffers is somehow linked to how a Dirk who finds himself in a continuity dead-end immediately commits suicide, that is hosed up, but it would suggest a hell of a depth to Dirk's character. I kind of have to marvel at the sort of singularity of purpose, all-consuming narcissism that keeps a single consciousness so consistent through countless iterations and offshoots. A disciplined psychopathy that represents the actual sort of attitude you'd have to take if you meant to game the cosmological system.
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Apr 22, 2019 08:37
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Goddamnit I'm never going to stop thinking about Homestuck.
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Apr 22, 2019 09:02
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Dolash posted:So help me if Dirk's "adapting" to the Ultimate Self situation that lets him endure it where Rose suffers is somehow linked to how a Dirk who finds himself in a continuity dead-end immediately commits suicide, that is hosed up, but it would suggest a hell of a depth to Dirk's character. I kind of have to marvel at the sort of singularity of purpose, all-consuming narcissism that keeps a single consciousness so consistent through countless iterations and offshoots. A disciplined psychopathy that represents the actual sort of attitude you'd have to take if you meant to game the cosmological system. The implication is that many other incarnations of Dirk commit suicide in order to consolidate their power into one Dirk -- Calliope suggests that's what makes him so dangerous in particular. Combine that with the fact that his personality is also a part of Scratch and Lord English somewhat explains what Dirk is really all about.
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Apr 22, 2019 09:05
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Also John being haunted by a vision of a black hole whenever he closes his eyes is not doing me any favors, having developed a vision problem where I see a dim, darker disc in the middle of my vision whenever I close my own eyes. Love too relate with a protagonist seized by the existential fear that by some past error they've put their life on the wrong track and severed the strand of fate.
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Apr 22, 2019 09:09
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Saradiart posted:Combine that with the fact that his personality is also a part of Scratch and Lord English somewhat.[/spoiler]
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Apr 22, 2019 09:35
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Nephthys posted:The one I was really sad for in Candy was Calliope. Roxy just cutting things off with her so she can go have a fake-as-poo poo "real human relationship" with John was hosed up and really awful. At least they seemed to have gotten close again at the end but man was Candy!Roxy terrible. I mean that kind of seemed to be The Vibe of candy right up until the end-- "hey fanbase, all these ships and redemption arcs you wanted that didn't exist in canon? here they are, we've forced the people involved into them, they're all terrible", and it continues in that vein right up until someone from the real canon universe shows up to inform us all that quote:(VRISKA): John, this story loving sucks. and after that Roxy and John at least somewhat resolve their issues and get back to "being friends" levels, Jake leaves Jane, someone finally puts Gamzee out of everyone's misery and Dave absconds from Jade without any apparent second thought (Karkat gets the shortest end of every stick, as is his lot in life). Even Jade-Calliope buggers off so candy!calliope doesn't need to deal with her or the surprise-reappearance of her brother going forward. (It'd actually be pretty funny if Candy!John really does have complete subconscious control over the non-canon universe and it all only ever "works" when people who are outside of it are calling him on his poo poo, vs. it all turning into a sad crapsack because john was constantly second-guessing and berating himself) There's also probably some metatextual thing about "if you thought homestuck is bad, just wait and see what happens when the fanbase is doing the writing" going on there, but given how the site started in the first place that's a can of worms I'd just as soon ignore
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Apr 22, 2019 10:29
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there is a part in Candy where (Vriska) is cloud-watching with Vriska and realizes that all of the clouds are Egbertian-motifs such as hats, pipes, etc. but as she's watching the clouds seem to lose shape, and her insight seems to be willfully obscured by the narrator. while I would be willing to believe a lot of Candy's dysfunction comes from John refusing to engage with the world as real, and be a total sadsack about dooming everyone to 'cosmic irrelevance', I don't think it explains everything. immediately after Candy starts, everyone acts like they've just been concussed and Calliope asks John to rescue Gamzee so he can have a 'redemption arc'. Gamzee precedes to corrupt the story for like, 30 chapters. there has to be some kind of force/character who is pushing the narrative in that direction, but unlike Meat the narrator never identifies themselves. Meat is straight up good. Candy has some scenes that I truly adore, but as a whole it's almost demoralizingly confusing. like if I ever 'figure it out' it'll mean I spent way more time thinking about it then it was worth. also, the final crew for Dirk's ship at the end of Meat was Dirk, Rosebot, Terezi, and John's corpse, right?
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Apr 22, 2019 12:32
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Scrree posted:also, the final crew for Dirk's ship at the end of Meat was Dirk, Rosebot, Terezi, and John's corpse, right? that is correct. it's an interesting group, considering that i dont think terezi is interested in whatever dirk is selling here, beyond john being potentially revived despite the narrative-irrelevance-poison. but i have a feeling dirk's idea of bringing him back to life is a Johnbot, not a real one
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Apr 22, 2019 13:06
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I'm going to be a filthy shipper for a second there and say that I like the idea of Meenah <> Karkat.
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Apr 22, 2019 14:45
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I rush-read Candy after reading Meat. I completely missed that the candy John ate looks an awful lot like the mini version of Callie's juju Which is a significant context for: JOHN: and i’m not feeling that heavy, suddenly. i feel kind of the opposite, actually. JOHN: i feel like, maybe i just don’t give a poo poo? Oh, also... The angle of the sun makes it so that she dips into shadow. The sharp recesses of her skeletal face turn those shadows black. For a moment, her voice sounds the way wind does when it howls through a narrow chasm. That wasn't Callie telling John to free Gamzee. That was alt!Calliope. edit edit: ROSE: What a relief, considering that we are both going to be young and magically fit literally forever. When did Kanaya make god-tier? Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 15:22
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I think it's because she's a rainbow drinker.
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Apr 22, 2019 15:39
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Arsenic Lupin posted:edit edit: ROSE: What a relief, considering that we are both going to be young and magically fit literally forever. I've always wondered how God Tier works in terms of aging. I guess this is quasi-confirmation that they don't age unless they want to passed a certain point.
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Apr 22, 2019 15:50
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Meat touches on the tragic nature of Dave and Karkat since the latter isn’t immortal. And also hemotype determines lifespan but he’s a mutant so maybe he’ll forever. But it’s Meat so he probably has like six months to live before succumbing to troll cancer.
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Apr 22, 2019 15:51
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Android Blues posted:I think it's because she's a rainbow drinker. Oh, makes sense.
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Apr 22, 2019 16:18
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