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kcer posted:this is what irritates me the most, in that they talk about how much material there is to fit into only 8 or 10 episodes, but then they're quite happy to do these 2 episodes of spinning their wheels with almost no plot progression at all This is my only issue with the show length. I know they talk about more budget per episode this way but I don't really buy it. That and like I've said before, I feel the first 3 seasons were reasonably accurate book adaptations, four was a transition into "ok Winds isn't coming", and 5-7 feel like they were just rushing to get us to this wrapping up point while hitting plot points. Writing from the beginning knowing how many episodes there would be, and that GRRM content ends with ADWD, could probably have helped the pacing and the jarring book-to-no-book transition. That said I liked the past two episodes.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:54
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No Wave posted:In the knighting scene, was Brienne tearing up because of a title or was it about her relationship with Jamie? They're the only characters in the show who seem to respect one anothrer in a really uncomplicated way and seem to have generally been very good to each other. Their fight (IN THE BOOKS!) was so well written. Jaime slowly realizes this lady is housing him as he runs through all the great fighters in Westeros, that he thinks he can beat. He was handcuffed at the time but still had two hands, and she completely waxed him.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:55
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No Wave posted:In the knighting scene, was Brienne tearing up because of a title or was it about her relationship with Jamie? They're the only characters in the show who seem to respect one anothrer in a really uncomplicated way and seem to have generally been very good to each other. Is getting respected from people she respect, and getting what she deserve. In a act of friendship, not less. Shes a bit a broken character (unlady-like in a society that don't accept that), and getting knighted has fixed her feelings about this.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:57
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Brienne's two driving principles are -my life is complicated by being a woman -i like Jamie So being knighted by Jamie is a big deal to her
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Apr 22, 2019 17:57
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Zaphod42 posted:There's a reason the Aztecs made their funky spiked bats and not swords. I kept thinking of it as the dichotomy of the show being how the Dubgeonmaster envisioned it happening when he introduced the plot point about obsidian, right before the players all say “Naw, we’re going to crush it all into small particulate and coat the battlefield with caltrops.”
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Apr 22, 2019 17:59
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No Wave posted:In the knighting scene, was Brienne tearing up because of a title or was it about her relationship with Jamie? They're the only characters in the show who seem to respect one anothrer in a really uncomplicated way and seem to have generally been very good to each other. Both. Although I think to say it was about the title is probably not properly describing it, because the title wouldn't mean anything to Brienne if a knight she respected wasn't bestowing it to her. Being a knight was basically her life's dream, and she'd mostly given up on achieving it in any meaningful sense. So it's emotional, she's completed one of her life's goals while standing right on the edge of death, her reaction makes a lot of sense.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:59
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I think the knighting scene is also important in a more subtle way: it hints that the social and legal traditions of Westeros can be broken and everyone is now fine with it in a way that they wouldn't have been at the start of the story. Obvious broader implications.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:00
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Sure gonna miss Yara. Also, has Gemma Whelan ever received opening title billing? I feel like she deserved it over some others.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:01
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Ok, finished episode, this is probably the last """character development""" stretch we will get, so now I can finally decide who I want in the spin off series: -Tormund -Jaime -Brienne -Pod -Davos The rest of the characters can die next episode and series end there. Spin off starts with the band travelling to Mereen going "boy, that was a close call, I'm so glad we managed to get out". Upon arriving they find out that Daario managed to establish a state of democracy and the city is prospering.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:01
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Alchenar posted:I think the knighting scene is also important in a more subtle way: it hints that the social and legal traditions of Westeros can be broken and everyone is now fine with it in a way that they wouldn't have been at the start of the story. Obvious broader implications. Which will hopefully lead to the end of the throne
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Apr 22, 2019 18:01
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Pretty sure the NK is flying to KL to torch the red keep, then march a army of undead Gold Cloaks and Kings Guard north in a classic pincer move. honestly would be dope of the "next week on..." was a fakeout and the battle for Winterfell doesn't happen yet and the undead army just stands there and waits and then cut to Kings Landing
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Apr 22, 2019 18:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:White walkers are the boss level bearded dudes, and wights are their braindead skeleton army, right? I remember Jon killing a white Walker and turning him into ice cubes but I don't remember him sparring with a zombie gently caress, maybe. IDK. White walkers is such a dumbass name compared to The Others anyways. This isn't The Walking Dead.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:02
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I didnt know brain had wanted to be a knight (this may have been adequately communicated)
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Apr 22, 2019 18:03
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lezard_valeth posted:Ok, finished episode, this is probably the last """character development""" stretch we will get, so now I can finally decide who I want in the spin off series:
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Apr 22, 2019 18:03
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Zaphod42 posted:gently caress, maybe. IDK. White walkers is such a dumbass name compared to The Others anyways. This isn't The Walking Dead. shoulda called em the not nice ice guys imo.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:04
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Groovelord Neato posted:shoulda called em the not nice ice guys imo. Blue meanies
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Apr 22, 2019 18:04
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I just realized that room where Brienne gets knighted has like all my favorite characters except for The Hound and regular Arya. Such a great scene
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Apr 22, 2019 18:05
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Alchenar posted:I think the knighting scene is also important in a more subtle way: it hints that the social and legal traditions of Westeros can be broken and everyone is now fine with it in a way that they wouldn't have been at the start of the story. Obvious broader implications. That's a little hokey though. It makes sense for Brienne because she slowly earned Jaime's respect. But he started by calling her names non-stop. HIS attitude of her changed, but it would take way way more for all of society to see her that way. I mean, maybe that's what they're intending, but sorry its too easy. Real social change takes forever and involves lots of backsliding.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:07
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Zaphod42 posted:gently caress, maybe. IDK. White walkers is such a dumbass name compared to The Others anyways. This isn't The Walking Dead. Yes instead it’s a Nicole Kidman sixth sense rip off. Both names are the same generic fantasy.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:07
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Away all Goats posted:I just realized that room where Brienne gets knighted has like all my favorite characters except for The Hound and regular Arya. Such a great scene Same but I'd maybe throw Varys in too
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Apr 22, 2019 18:07
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No Wave posted:I didnt know brain had wanted to be a knight (this may have been adequately communicated) IIRC the show barely touched it at all. But in the books its a HUGE deal and he's constantly depressed about being a cripple and not being a knight until he figures out his destiny.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:08
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Basebf555 posted:Well, that sure was 2+ hours of various characters talking to each other. gosh!
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Apr 22, 2019 18:09
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i think it's pretty obvious - she wears armor/carries a sword/swears oaths to people.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:09
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Zaphod42 posted:That's a little hokey though. It makes sense for Brienne because she slowly earned Jaime's respect. But he started by calling her names non-stop. HIS attitude of her changed, but it would take way way more for all of society to see her that way. Well when most of society is dead it probably won't matter what they think. e: Picture this, you're one of the last surviving people of King's Landing, you nearly got starved out in the Winter, and you're lucky to be alive. Ser Brienne of Tarth strolls by with her armor and sword, overseeing food distribution. You going to walk up to her and tell her she can't be a knight?
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Apr 22, 2019 18:10
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Fellatio del Toro posted:honestly would be dope of the "next week on..." was a fakeout and the battle for Winterfell doesn't happen yet and the undead army just stands there and waits and then cut to Kings Landing Imagine playing a strategy game with fantasy races. And you get the undead. What you do? You use your forces to kill towns, peasants, ... some guerrilla warfare, until you have giant armies, and then ate big cities. You move more like a pandemia, until you can enact World War Z scenes where not even modern weaponry could dream to stop you. In other words: What you say would be "What If the Night King do the logical thing, instead of crashing into the only well defend spot in the map".
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Apr 22, 2019 18:10
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Adun posted:Yes instead it’s a Nicole Kidman sixth sense rip off. Haha, fair. Others sounds generic in a good way here though, just like a pronoun. Where White Walkers seems a little too similar to walking dead others with something tacked on. Feels knockoff and cliche to me, but I admit Others isn't exactly unique.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:11
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Adun posted:Yes instead it’s a Nicole Kidman sixth sense rip off. The Others is an adaptation of a story written in the late 1800s. M. Night was not the first guy to ever do a "And they were ghosts all along!!!" twist, as hard as that is to believe.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:11
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lezard_valeth posted:Nikolaj Coster-Waldeu please run away, this show doesn't deserve you! He was in Gods of Egypt and deserves all of this.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:11
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the white walkers/others were a bad idea anyway. the interesting stuff is the warring human factions. shoulda just been an encroaching superwinter. then again i'm a guy that also hates the dragons and wishes the outright fantasy elements were minimal.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:12
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Tei posted:Imagine playing a strategy game with fantasy races. And you get the undead. What you do? I'd do a zergling rush and quit if I don't win in the first five minutes
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Apr 22, 2019 18:12
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I don't think it's a coincidence the walkers are attacking late at night, so the climax of the battle can be at dawn. Either the survivors pull something out of their rear end at dawn to win or at least make the night king retreat or they lose and the sun doesn't come up. Also Davos isn't dying, he's going to live happily ever after with that lady that was smiling at him in the courtyard.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:13
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Zaphod42 posted:That's a little hokey though. It makes sense for Brienne because she slowly earned Jaime's respect. But he started by calling her names non-stop. HIS attitude of her changed, but it would take way way more for all of society to see her that way. In general sure, but in this world / setting, all the people that "matter" are here in one place, fighting an existential threat that real-world humanity hasn't ever faced. In Westeros change happens from the top down. If the accumulated lords and important people in Winterfell say Brienne is a knight, that's the way it's going to be. Westeros is in many ways even more deeply feudal than Europe was.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:13
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Fellatio del Toro posted:honestly would be dope of the "next week on..." was a fakeout and the battle for Winterfell doesn't happen yet and the undead army just stands there and waits and then cut to Kings Landing See, that'd be interesting. Then you could have a conflict where Jon tries to join the battle and save KL but Dany is like "eh gently caress Cersei though?"
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Apr 22, 2019 18:13
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CornHolio posted:He was in Gods of Egypt and deserves all of this. He's pretty good in Headhunters, which is a recommendable action/thriller about art thieves.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:14
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Groovelord Neato posted:the white walkers/others were a bad idea anyway. the interesting stuff is the warring human factions. shoulda just been an encroaching superwinter. then again i'm a guy that also hates the dragons and wishes the outright fantasy elements were minimal. Same though. Humans being wicked to each other for believable reasons is so much more interesting than THE EVIL PEOPLE ARE COMING Does anybody think the night king is a better villain than Joffrey?
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Apr 22, 2019 18:14
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Alchenar posted:I think the knighting scene is also important in a more subtle way: it hints that the social and legal traditions of Westeros can be broken and everyone is now fine with it in a way that they wouldn't have been at the start of the story. Obvious broader implications. A rare good post in a sea of filth
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Apr 22, 2019 18:15
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Fellatio del Toro posted:honestly would be dope of the "next week on..." was a fakeout and the battle for Winterfell doesn't happen yet and the undead army just stands there and waits and then cut to Kings Landing Could honestly see this happening, then could set up the whole Clegane-bowl deal with Mountain going north with the dead. Then Bronn can get to Jaime/Tyrion in the meantime etc.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:i think it's pretty obvious - she wears armor/carries a sword/swears oaths to people.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:18
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Kawalimus posted:They said a thing about taking out the NK also wiping out their whole army but who knows if that's true. Maybe they'll keep coming! But just can't make more walkers/wights. Arya takes out the Night King and then her skin starts turning blue and her eyes start glowing. "There must always be... a Night King..."
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Apr 22, 2019 18:19
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Zaphod42 posted:Podrick singing was great, Brienne being knighted was fantastic, but those were two short scenes. The whole episode feels like a montage in retrospect there's so much happening and none of it has enough time to really mean much other than cliche moments. That's the biggest problem I think. I think the weakest content involved Arya and Gendry but I felt everything else that happened was genuinely affecting storytelling — while also being unabashedly fanservice-y. In addition to Brienne getting Knighted and Pod's singing, the crux of the redemption arcs for Theon and Jaime were also really, really good scenes. They're also short, but they have a lot of impact based on each character's history I thought. The Hound and Beric on the ramparts was a good comedic beat, Tormund's origin story was a great comedic beat. Missandei and Grey Worm talking about their future together, despite being star-crossed lovers and are ultimately in a doomed situation was a bit sad. Jorah receiving Heartsbane from Sam was another of my favorite moments with how the two have been connected; Sam talking about how Jeor Mormont taught him to be a man and to do the right thing was pretty  and then doing the right thing by gifting his family's ancestral sword to Jorah just before the battle was an emotional moment. "I'll wield it in his memory... to guard the realms of men" is such a great line, interconnecting House Tarly with House Mormont through Valyrian steel. The Jon and Dany stuff, was ehh, serviceable to the plot. But if they write Jon to want his rightful claim to the Iron Throne, then gently caress that, that'll be bullshit.I mentioned it a ways earlier, but the entire episode reminded me of some scenes from Saving Private Ryan, which arguably has some really great character moments so seems like it'd be a good model to work off. Particularly the scenes when they're resting in the church, and the moments before the German forces arrive at their position on the bridge. They were these little emotional moments to beef up the characters just a little bit more before they get into the real poo poo where their lives are at stake. Again, it's a derivative trope of "just before the battle" but I thought it all was pretty effective. teagone fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 18:20
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