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sunaurus posted:Neither? I'm just saying that in general, using some basic backbone-software and bolting on a ton of functionality with plugins will result in worse UX than using purpose-built tools. Incidentally, IntelliJ is built exactly this way.
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Apr 21, 2019 04:05
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otoh, it works fine as an IDE without plugins as well instead of reverting back to being a text editor.
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Apr 21, 2019 05:43
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People have been arguing forever about why their IDE/text editor is the best since the vim/emacs days. Have some self awareness and consider that your productivity with a given IDE is due to the amount of time you've invested working with it.
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Apr 21, 2019 06:30
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I just throw ropes all over my screen before committing and hope that it magically becomes code in Git. Also I just use VS Code and you should user whatever you're comfortable and happy with.
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Apr 21, 2019 17:00
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Pile Of Garbage posted:I just throw ropes all over my screen before committing and hope that it magically becomes code in Git You jerk off on your code to do 'git commit'? I've heard of a lot of workflows but that takes the cake.
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Apr 21, 2019 17:08
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The only purpose I've found in committing IDE metadata into a repo was to help juniors get started and avoid going down rabbit holes of productivity sucking that I've done already as a senior and don't want repeated by others. I'm working on a project scaffolding repo (something similar to all those web frameworks that give you a project skeleton with a shell command) to help newbies to the team (not necessarily junior) get started and it's worth it given we've lost a fair bit of time due to not standardizing our makefile targets and other build bureaucracy. IDEs can divert conversations about the actual code and project structure into how to accommodate that specific IDE rather than focus everyone around getting the whole thing accomplished in the first place.
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Apr 21, 2019 17:36
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Pile Of Garbage posted:Also I just use VS Code and you should user whatever you're comfortable and happy with. No thanks, I’d like to be tribalistic and start arguments over trivial things because I’m a hotshot developer.
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Apr 21, 2019 17:36
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Volmarias posted:You jerk off on your code to do 'git commit'? I've heard of a lot of workflows but that takes the cake.
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Apr 21, 2019 17:39
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necrobobsledder posted:This is definitely another approach to signing your commits. What better signature than your DNA, after all? As long as your identical twin doesn't work there ... sure.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:36
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EditorConfig can be useful to get everyone on the same page but without mandating a particular ide: https://editorconfig.org Works in almost everything. Alternately just add a code formatter step to your build or pre-commit and never let unformatted code tough git.
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Apr 21, 2019 18:46
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Volguus posted:As long as your identical twin doesn't work there ... sure. sperm dna from a single sperm cell is a random combination of either one or the other chromosomes from the 42 pair, meaning there are 2^42 possible combinations, all in the same ejaculation. If you could leverage it such that you could use a single cell dna combination, it would be perfect for a per commit personalisation. Still less than SHA-1 that has 2^160 possible combination, but good enough for now. Basically: you keep jerking it and tell me where you work so I can avoid it. This still would not solve the identical twin problem, but that is a minor issue.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:09
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Not every cell in semen is sperm, and I think the others would have your full set of chromosomes.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:28
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smackfu posted:Alternately just add a code formatter step to your build or pre-commit and never let unformatted code tough git. This is the correct answer. I don't want to spend months trying to learn your team's editor because you decided it was best for everyone to use MyFavoriteIDE.
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Apr 21, 2019 19:37
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Volguus posted:If you, however, come to the standup meeting saying that the 5 minute feature is not completed after 5 days because vim plugins are giving you a hard time, then we're gonna have some talking to do. I understand preferring a text editor/IDE over another. I do not understand getting purposefully gimped by said text editor and refusing to change. I have no idea what my teammates use for text editing. It could be ed. Whatever. You get work done at a reasonable pace, doesn't matter if you do it standing on your head IMO. Even if I think they could be getting more work done faster by switching tools. Some guy who spends five days wrestling with vim plugins (and having tried it a few times, I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate for the effort involved in getting vim up to the level of a minimally capable Java IDE, like Eclipse) is not getting work done at a reasonable pace.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:39
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:Incidentally, IntelliJ is built exactly this way. But JetBrains does all the plugins in-house rather than tossing a pluggable editor out into the world for everyone to just DIY their own plugin(s) and the difference in the quality of the product shows.
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Apr 22, 2019 16:40
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Yeah I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't ranting about modular design as an implementation detail (which the plugin system is for JetBrains) but rather about trying to force some software to be something completely different by using a bunch of unrelated plugins from a bunch of unrelated developers.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:45
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sunaurus posted:Yeah I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't ranting about modular design as an implementation detail (which the plugin system is for JetBrains) but rather about trying to force some software to be something completely different by using a bunch of unrelated plugins from a bunch of unrelated developers. Isn’t most software composed of multiple systems built by unrelated developers? Why do you think that necessarily leads to more-likely-bad outcomes? What sort of “relationship” do the developers of different parts of the system need to have to avoid that risk?
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Apr 22, 2019 18:08
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I love how the IDE argument on these forums are sour and very little about the IDE's themselves. Like we know it is a stupid argument we should not be having but we just cannot stay away from it.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:10
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Subjunctive posted:Isn’t most software composed of multiple systems built by unrelated developers? Why do you think that necessarily leads to more-likely-bad outcomes? Hey I just wanted to let you know that you're arguing against something I don't believe so I guess I'm sorry if I did a bad job of conveying my point in English
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Apr 22, 2019 18:24
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Keetron posted:I love how the IDE argument on these forums are sour and very little about the IDE's themselves. Like we know it is a stupid argument we should not be having but we just cannot stay away from it. I wrote a lot of my body of code when an IDE for C meant TAGS support (fragile, context-blind, easily confused by cross-platform alternative symbols or macros, still better than nothing) and your editor jumping to compilation error messages, so the modern capabilities are wondrous! It seems like people are generally doing good work. “I had to spend a day or two setting up my development environment for work on this large project” has always been the case in my experience. It just went from “weld together the build systems of these mostly-portable dependencies, etc.” to “figure out which of these language server plugins does the best job automatically constructing generics from near-duplicate functions, etc.” E: the emacs family and vim have long been built exactly as hosts for chiefly-programming extensions, and often come with their own examples of them, so it’s not much of a distortion of their design to inject your favourite type-ahead or lint tool into them. They want you to do this. They like it. It feels good. Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 18:26
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Subjunctive posted:... “I had to spend a day or two setting up my development environment for work on this large project” has always been the case in my experience. ... This might generally be the case, but imo it's bad maintenance. A well maintained solution should allow new developer to pull down a repo and start debugging with minimal setup (maybe a db and some local services).
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Apr 22, 2019 18:50
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downout posted:A well maintained solution should allow new developer to pull down a repo and start debugging with minimal setup (maybe a db and some local services). Definitely this. If you can't clone the repo and see all of the tests passing and actually run the application within 5 minutes of sitting down at a fresh developer PC, something is rotten.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:18
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Sure just download this entire VM to run this crud app
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Apr 22, 2019 19:20
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I find if a developer struggles to get the application running and they don't have any immediate excuses like, y'know, being brand new to the company, the time taken to set up the application and get it running is largely down to how competent the developer is. I've had to walk people through our loving MSI installer process and tell them exactly what to configure, even though it's only something you really need to set once and forget. Those people did not remain employed very long. Sometimes getting the tech running can be painful but someone's going to figure out how to ease the pain and if they aren't sharing that with the dev team, they also suck.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:23
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Keetron posted:I love how the IDE argument on these forums are sour and very little about the IDE's themselves. Like we know it is a stupid argument we should not be having but we just cannot stay away from it. Previous job had two C# devs who had some issues when the ASP.Net core project would work fine in one visual studio but not the other. One was professional and the other enterprise edition and they couldn't for the life of them figure it out. Turns out it the two editions handled some file path thing differently.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:40
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We had some stupid poo poo about one of Microsoft's test frameworks only being bundled with Enterprise, and only about a quarter of our dev team was assigned an Enterprise license. So only a small handful of the team could build and run the test assemblies. Now they just gave everyone MSDN accounts.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:42
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Is organizing a Steam-based secret Santa around Christmas a cool and fun idea, lame idea, or horrible idea?
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Apr 23, 2019 00:33
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How many people do you know who have ever held in their head the thought, "man, I wish I had more games in my Steam library"?
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Apr 23, 2019 02:57
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rt4 posted:Is organizing a Steam-based secret Santa around Christmas a cool and fun idea, lame idea, or horrible idea? The nature of such a thing is that some people are going to get left out. If you want to do something gaming-related, I suggest holding a game night/afternoon. Video games (a few steam setups and/or consoles, the number depending on how many people would actively be interested in playing), board and card games, and food and drink in some form, so people who don't want to play can relax and socialize. Something spectate-able on a projector or something might be welcome.
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Apr 23, 2019 06:34
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Definitely this. If you can't clone the repo and see all of the tests passing and actually run the application within 5 minutes of sitting down at a fresh developer PC, something is rotten. Maven, npm, and docker have really improved this immeasurably. Docker especially takes care of the most tedious stuff like downloading and configuring local web servers and databases.
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Apr 23, 2019 12:02
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rt4 posted:Is organizing a Steam-based secret Santa around Christmas a cool and fun idea, lame idea, or horrible idea? Depends if everyone involved already plays videogames. If not, basically limiting the secret santa to games only seems like an issue, and a unnecessary limitation. Why not do a regular one where steam gifts, or digital gifts in general are accepted/encouraged? Also make sure it's actually possible to gift anonymously on these services. Maybe it's also stupid from a money perspective to buy tons of games at full prize right before the sale starts? When does it start?
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Apr 25, 2019 06:54
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https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/04/23/hertz_accenture_lawsuit/ having worked for another “Monster Consultancy” and dealing with them a lot during my time at a variety of companies, this is basically Accenture’s (and Cap, Atos, etc) business model. But Accenture is notorious for having super slick sales and a huge legal team making sure clients can do nothing but pay up.
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Apr 25, 2019 08:23
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I've never seen a successful vendor or consultancy-driven IT project.
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Apr 25, 2019 08:55
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shrike82 posted:I've never seen a successful vendor or consultancy-driven IT project. almost-  i've seen good work done with a poo poo ton of consultants only if management keeps them on the tightest of leashes.
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Apr 25, 2019 09:38
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Anyone have opinion on Domain-Driven Design? If someone is all-in on it, how does that color your opinion of them?
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Apr 25, 2019 10:06
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As always, it depends how much of a zealot they are. DDD can be cool and good, but it heavily depends on the quality of your domain model. If you don't model your domain correctly you'll find that all sorts of contortions are needed to fit it onto your actual requirements. So I guess you should figure out how much actual DDD they've done, or if they just read Vaughn Vernon's book. Fun fact about Vernon: I like his books but he gives the dullest of presentations
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Apr 25, 2019 12:00
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SurgicalOntologist posted:Anyone have opinion on Domain-Driven Design? If someone is all-in on it, how does that color your opinion of them? I think it is probably one of the most logical ways of looking at software. IMHO of course.
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Apr 25, 2019 12:39
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Now is a great time to mention the position I’m leaving tomorrow is a position with Accenture. It’s a genuinely hosed up company and I was thankfully shielded from most of their corporate bullshit. Still had to do a dozen trainings a year along the lines of “DONT EMAIL CLIENT INFO WILLY NILLY AND LOCK YOUR LAPTOP WHEN YOU WALK AWAY FROM IT” so if that’s a constant issue that gives you an idea the type of people they hire. I’m not at all shocked about the Hertz business and I’m glad to be getting out before some other poo poo from that starts rolling downhill.
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Apr 25, 2019 14:34
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My first job out of college was with Accenture and this news is in no way surprising. They appeared to hire for quantity and paid peanuts. Combined with their incredibly management-heavy structure, they had a whole lot of people planning and putting presentations together for the client and very few people actually capable of delivering on the promises they were making. Nothing I ever worked on was on schedule and they'd just throw bodies at the problem. Young people out of college in a strange city for 4 days of the week will put in some crazy hours if you lean on them even a little bit.Protocol7 posted:Still had to do a dozen trainings a year along the lines of “DONT EMAIL CLIENT INFO WILLY NILLY AND LOCK YOUR LAPTOP WHEN YOU WALK AWAY FROM IT” so if that’s a constant issue that gives you an idea the type of people they hire. My absolute favorite part was the exploding reply-all chains ("please take me off the distro thx"). Happened twice in a month and got so bad a manager replied saying something along the lines of, "if it were in my power I would fire all of you who have replied to this thread."
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Apr 25, 2019 15:08
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Clanpot Shake posted:My least favorite part of working there was the "silly" emails coworkers would send to the entire team if you walked away and didn't lock your computer. My favored method for this was Win+R, "poop", Enter. Everybody would get all confused and ask, "Why does my computer say, 'Windows cannot find poop'?" You know, just about everybody leaves their computers unlocked at my current job and there doesn't seem to be a policy of auto-locking or auto-sleeping, so maybe I should start doing this again. Or, you know, talk to the sysadmin and get them to fix the security policy.
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Apr 25, 2019 15:14
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