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See, in a good loving game, using the ? sprites to mark a lack of awareness of the overall situation while still being aware of the fightingness would be a neat way of conveying the experience of being mind controlled, though hyphening out half the letters to hide the dialogue lines is probably not the best method. But goddamn did they put a neatish narrative trick in a complete poo poo salad with rear end dressing and fuckroutons of a play experience.
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Apr 23, 2019 06:40
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| # ? Jun 13, 2024 03:24 |
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Games often do the old "brainwashed friend has to be fought and brought to their senses" thing and you, the player, are usually the one that has to knock the sense into them. I can think of only a few games where YOUR friends have to knock sense into YOU, and it often turns into a story route split depending on whether you lose (i.e. get saved by the power of friendship) or win against them. Winning is usually much harder since killing your friends and continuing as an evil protagonist or triggering the bad ending is a very deliberate choice. That's what i was expecting here, but forgot that this is Reborn. You're not allowed to make choices, and you have to win the super hard 6 vs 30 fight anyway because gently caress you, that's why.
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Apr 23, 2019 07:21
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Really though, as balls-hard as this marathon is, I could at least excuse it if it was both optional and something you knew drat well what you were getting yourself into ahead of time. But springing this with a plot-mandated battle? This truly is the apotheosis of nearly everything wrong with Reborn in the span of just one update. It’s like a sick and twisted parody of itself at this point.
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Apr 23, 2019 07:53
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I vaguely wonder if Fern went through this when he was the hero. And if he ever broke out from the control.
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Apr 23, 2019 07:58
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Sure this battle chain is awful and all But I am still waiting for someone to drag Bennett and his loving sanctimonious entitled ame-speeches off by the ear. But knowing Reborn, he is the one who will get a speech about Raven being weak in the end and just run away again.
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Apr 23, 2019 09:04
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Can you imagine doing this blind, and unless you do the smart thing and go 'gently caress this' and delete the game you need to slowly learn each new gently caress You move every pokemon has as you go through these 3 battles so you finally know how to make a team that can go through this gauntlet (if lady luck happens to smile on you)?
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Apr 23, 2019 10:18
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Let's focus on positives 1: the leavanny being named Raven is cute
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Apr 23, 2019 10:45
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mandatory lesbian posted:Let's focus on positives 2. We’re closer to the end than we’ve ever been
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Apr 23, 2019 10:48
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I take it back, I don't want the Hole anymore Mind control is a garbage narrative device and I hate it Although a 30 on 6 gauntlet fight is also turbogarbo
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Apr 23, 2019 11:06
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and here i was thinking it was called the pit just because the story would hit rock bottom (for now)
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Apr 23, 2019 11:22
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84: This Update Broke Onmi
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Apr 23, 2019 11:42
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Welp, the gameplay finally caught up to the story in terms of atrociousness. Wow, 6v30? What the gently caress is this, a joke? Seriously? Seriously? Because this sounds like the beginning of a joke.
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Apr 23, 2019 12:12
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The Golux posted:See, in a good loving game, using the ? sprites to mark a lack of awareness of the overall situation while still being aware of the fightingness would be a neat way of conveying the experience of being mind controlled, though hyphening out half the letters to hide the dialogue lines is probably not the best method. But goddamn did they put a neatish narrative trick in a complete poo poo salad with rear end dressing and fuckroutons of a play experience. Yeah I actually like the narrative decision to make you play through yourself being mind controlled with a vague understanding of who you're up against. However while the narrative idea was clever, the actual writing was garbage and the encounters themselves were... Uh. Better off not spoken of.
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Apr 23, 2019 12:34
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Bennett you loving nerd, you're gonna get such a swirlie when we're not mind controlled any more.
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Apr 23, 2019 12:48
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mandatory lesbian posted:Let's focus on positives I love the Mimikyu sprite  So better games than this have this problem, but: why is losing a battle here a game over? Why is failing to do something that the narrative is going to say was a bad thing something that ends the story? Most of the battles before at least theoretically had to be won to stop meteor or something, but how is raven losing to someone while mind controlled something that breaks the world? It's lovely transparent railroading that pokemon usually cleanly avoids with whiting out and retrying.
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Apr 23, 2019 15:12
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Couldn't your own psychic pokemon help you break out? Like a Metagross or Alakazam is just gonna not dispel the mind control and take orders despite being superhimanly intelligent?
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Apr 23, 2019 15:43
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That would require them to be thinking beings or animals instead of mindless weapons.
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Apr 23, 2019 15:48
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Elephant Parade posted:could you not just, like, lose Nope. Because then this dumbass story wouldn't play out exactly how Amethyst wanted it if that were the case. Note: the next two updates are this dumbass story playing out how Amethyst wanted it. Bloodly posted:The battles don't seem interesting. But at the same time our host knows everything there is to know and has built specifically to deal with everything. How exactly is a person without knowledge meant to deal with this? Everything since level 20 or so? I can't really help if you're lost re. Pokemon battles, this game is already not beginner-friendly and it quickly ramps up from that. This update is unique because I actually wanted to be a lot more comprehensive in my play-by-play just to emphasize the raw horror that two-on-one double battles are. The sheer morass of foes, where it's easy to get overwhelmed not because you did anything wrong but because Pokemon was fundamentally not designed for this and it is axiomatically not a fair challenge. From what I understand, people trying this in the beta encountered MMO raid boss levels of failure and chipping, where it took a couple of days for the first clear to happen. My team wasn't perfect. Flower Boy is nigh useless here. Probably should've brought another fire-type, probably my own Volcarona or something. Or maybe a Steel-type like Metagross who resisted most of the poo poo flying around. The perfect addition would be Genesect, since it's fast and has a varied movepool, but it's legendary.
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Apr 23, 2019 15:58
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...I'm speechless. I keep trying to find some kind of analogy to express how I'm feeling, but aside from involving vomit somewhere I got nothing. My brain has shut down. with loving bells on.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:01
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It's weird how Meteor didn't just partner their two mind controlled teens together and have a more sensible 2v2 battle but I guess then the game would be too easy Narratively I like the idea of battling while being only half aware of what you're doing and who you're fighting but because Ame doesn't understand game design or good writing it all just falls flat
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Apr 23, 2019 16:11
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:My team wasn't perfect. Flower Boy is nigh useless here. Probably should've brought another fire-type, probably my own Volcarona or something. Or maybe a Steel-type like Metagross who resisted most of the poo poo flying around. The perfect addition would be Genesect, since it's fast and has a varied movepool, but it's legendary. How far away is your last chance to make team changes and have a reliable/repeatable team heal?
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Apr 23, 2019 16:14
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With Pokemon Uranium, it not only mimicked an official game with pacing how increased the complexity, but since it had a massive number of original creations, I had to spend a lot of time exploring all these wacky characters. So when we reached late game battles like CURIE or the championship, we were dealing with parts we've already seen just put together in weird ways. While Tiko's Contrary+Overheat spam was a monster, it just put together items we had seen a few times that I had mentioned in passing when I had to explore what a Chimaconda even was. Pokemon Reborn starts weird and expects a degree of system mastery from the outset just to twist it with its incredibly complex fields. Uranium's first Gym Leader had three things with Scratch/Yawn. Reborn's? code: I feel powerless to relate this to someone who isn't already really familiar with Pokemon. I imagine part of coping with this is letting the confusion wash over you as a thing itself, how Reborn can keep being so complicated and in new ways that something as simple as Pokemon becomes noise. But when we get to the play-by-play of the biggest horseshit w/r/t battles... I just don't know. Kyrosiris posted:How far away is your last chance to make team changes and have a reliable/repeatable team heal? Not too far, but far enough I'd feel it if I had to do it over and over again, and I think I'd have to undo some of the last glass box puzzle just to be able to backtrack to a ladder. Once there there's a PC on the catwalks for some loving reason. You aren't stuck in the glass workstation, we can go back to the elevator shaft ladder and activating the other elevator also gives a ground floor entryway (I don't think we pay Hardy back) that at least lets you GTFO. Though, this is still balls deep in Route 4 and you'd need to GTFI again.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:22
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I feel powerless to relate this to someone who isn't already really familiar with Pokemon. I imagine part of coping with this is letting the confusion wash over you as a thing itself, how Reborn can keep being so complicated and in new ways that something as simple as Pokemon becomes noise. But when we get to the play-by-play of the biggest horseshit w/r/t battles... I just don't know. It really feels like the Pokemon analogue of FFT 1.3 in that way. You're expected to have absurd systems mastery from the word go, the author is a petulant baby who dislikes their Expertly Crafted Solutions(TM) being circumvented, etc. Unlike 1.3 there's no merit to a "content" version because the new/unique content is the story, which sucks and blows at the same time.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:31
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I don't think I have anything to add to this that hasn't been said better already by other people in this thread, but wow, this is really loving dumb. I'm not sure what's worse, the supposed narrative justification for all of this, or how awful that battle gauntlet is. I'm very impressed with your ability to just destroy it, but I think there's some need to emphasise that even with this strategy designed to humiliate it, you were still reliant on the RNG deciding not to gently caress you over at several points, because that's how accuracy works in Pokemon. I can't imagine going into this with a team not designed for maximum bullshit mitigation; imagine how awful the experience would be for some poor chump trying to play this blind (oh, who am I kidding, I don't think a blind player would make it past all the prior bullshit to reach this point). This is abysmal game design. Again, not that that hasn't been said better already, but it's worth saying again.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:42
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I feel powerless to relate this to someone who isn't already really familiar with Pokemon. I imagine part of coping with this is letting the confusion wash over you as a thing itself, how Reborn can keep being so complicated and in new ways that something as simple as Pokemon becomes noise. But when we get to the play-by-play of the biggest horseshit w/r/t battles... I just don't know. If I was to compare this to another nerd property this feels like being 12 turns into a six player Magic the Gathering Commander game where everyone has a handful of artifacts/enchantments with weird global effects.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:50
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Now imagine doing a nuzlocke run. p.s. the name nuzlocke loving sucks. I don't care if it's the screenname of whoever invented it or if it's got some kind of meaning, it's garbage.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:57
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Omnicrom posted:If I was to compare this to another nerd property this feels like being 12 turns into a six player Magic the Gathering Commander game where everyone has a handful of artifacts/enchantments with weird global effects. Zur's Wierding, Knowledge Pool, and Hive Mind.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:57
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Kurieg posted:Zur's Wierding, Knowledge Pool, and Hive Mind. And then someone drops a Warp World.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:03
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Omnicrom posted:If I was to compare this to another nerd property this feels like being 12 turns into a six player Magic the Gathering Commander game where everyone has a handful of artifacts/enchantments with weird global effects. Now that you mention it, this reminds me of the most complicated and garbage ruling I've ever heard, even worse than double opalescence and a humility. It's only two cards, Blood Moon and Life and Limb, two enchantments with global effects. Blood Moon turns all nonbasic lands (which you need to play the game) into mountains (a type of land), and Life and Limb turns all forests (another type of land) and a particular type of token (saprolings) into forest saprolings. Of course, there are nonbasic lands that have the forest and mountain types on them. Long story short, what actually happens depends on what order you resolve the enchantments in, whether or not you have any saprolings and/or forests in play at resolution, anything you play after resolution, and I'm sure some other things I'm forgetting.. The whole thing involves dependencies and timestamps and dependency loops, because eeeuuuurgh. I imagine Reborn is like trying to get your head around that if you don't already have a comprehensive understanding of the mtg rules engine
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Apr 23, 2019 17:18
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DiggleWrath posted:Now that you mention it, this reminds me of the most complicated and garbage ruling I've ever heard, even worse than double opalescence and a humility. "Your lands are now vulnerable to board wipes" sounds like a terrible card to play. Unless you're doing it to hose your opponents and not actually running any cards with land type forest.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:25
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When ofs mentioned The Hole to me after we got the fish I was dreading it since, but I wouldn't have imagined that it would be so bad.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:31
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Kurieg posted:Zur's Wierding, Knowledge Pool, and Hive Mind. This isn't even too bad of a board state. Zur's Weirding just says 'gently caress you, you can't draw anything good', knowledge pool prevents the original copy of anything from resolving, and the hive mind means everyone just gets a copy of whatever instant/sorcery you do cast (even if the original spell doesn't resolve), so hopefully it isn't too nasty of a spell! Omnicrom posted:And then someone drops a Warp World. See, this is both a blessing and extremely obnoxious. Once you resolve all Warp Worlds, hopefully the problem permanents are just gone. On the other hand, your resolving 3-5 copies of warp world, which is agony. Not complicated. Just extremely tedious and painful.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:32
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Kurieg posted:"Your lands are now vulnerable to board wipes" sounds like a terrible card to play. Unless you're doing it to hose your opponents and not actually running any cards with land type forest. Well the trick to Life and Limb effect is that it goes both ways. It doesn't just turn your Forests into 1/1 Saprolings, it also makes your Saprolings into Forests as well as creatures so you can tap them for mana. In theory if you had a good amount of saproling generation you could ramp yourself pretty crazy, but as you point out it's a high-risk proposition.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:33
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Kurieg posted:"Your lands are now vulnerable to board wipes" sounds like a terrible card to play. Unless you're doing it to hose your opponents and not actually running any cards with land type forest. That's the funny thing. Life and Limb is bad, but its interaction with an actually good card is migraine-inducing. This is probably a metaphor for Reborn somehow. DiggleWrath fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 17:34
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Kitfox88 posted:and here i was thinking it was called the pit just because the story would hit rock bottom (for now) Don't compare The Hole to The Pit. The Pit was amazing.  
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Apr 23, 2019 17:40
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:TODAY'S RANDOM SHINY: 
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Apr 23, 2019 18:36
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Btw, It is refreshing that the gameplay is the worst element again.
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Apr 23, 2019 18:46
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Geemer posted:Now imagine doing a nuzlocke run. It was something to do with a Nuzleaf in one of the first runs being named after a character from LOST I think? gently caress knows these days.
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Apr 23, 2019 19:21
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DiggleWrath posted:Just extremely tedious and painful. Ah, so it’s Magic the Gathering
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Apr 23, 2019 19:28
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thetoughestbean posted:Ah, so it’s Magic the Gathering Basically, yeah 
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Apr 23, 2019 19:34
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