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Oh it was just gonna be an excuse to go this is what a competent story might have done. Then I think about it and mostly its incoherent. If we take out the Elisa Lam stuff, is it still Yiik? (No). If we make Alex someone genuinely trying to help others but being a dick because he's frustrated that he can't make a real difference, is it still Yiik? gently caress no, that character is written as a sociopath. You sure can't remove the nonsensical metaphysics, that's half the dialogue. The best you could do is write a new story with the same names and appearances but wildly different characters.
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Apr 23, 2019 15:50
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Robindaybird posted:Yeah, and in the books, half of his "jackass" behavior can be attributed to either having zero brain-to-mouth filter with a slightly impish sense of humor, or that he's someone who just gives no fucks about the Victorian/Edwardian social mores. I love Elementary's take on Holmes but it's also very much its own twist on just about everything. It's a good modern adaptation because it's good fanfic.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:20
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Ramos posted:This sticks out to me since the most successful Indie RPG by a mile in recent memory didn't have voice acting. Hell, most successful small development teams didn't need voice acting to make their stuff work. It reeks of, "We did it because that's how it's supposed to be done," rather than, "Does this fit our design?" This is kind of striking - does Andrew think his game isn't an indie game? Does he think he's in the higher-than-indie "B-" tier he refers to? Also RE: "that's how it's supposed to be done" vs "does this fit the design", take a look at the adventure games of the 90s. I played quite a few of them on a computer with no sound card, and absolutely loved the feeling I got from just exploring the worlds of those games. Recently, I looked at a few video reviews of them, which were using the voiced versions, and holy poo poo do voice overs absolutely ruin the atmosphere of those games. If you ever play old adventure games, for the most part, do yourself a favor and turn off the VOs. Most of them are SO much more enjoyable without them, and it feels like they were added as an afterthought because they "needed" to have them, but didn't have the budget or didn't care to put in the effort to make them good. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 16:43
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It could be interesting to try to do a "how could this be fixed" post, I for one would be interested in seeing it (I've seen a lot of very good attempts at this with other instances of bad writing etc), but I'm not sure there's really anything to work with in Yiik.TheGreatEvilKing posted:Then I think about it and mostly its incoherent. If we take out the Elisa Lam stuff, is it still Yiik? (No). If we make Alex someone genuinely trying to help others but being a dick because he's frustrated that he can't make a real difference, is it still Yiik? gently caress no, that character is written as a sociopath. You sure can't remove the nonsensical metaphysics, that's half the dialogue. I think this is pretty much on the nose. There might be one or two concepts you could salvage, but Yiik's core identity is so tied to everything that's awful about it that you wouldn't be so much fixing it as just writing something else. As much as the core ideology of Yiik is incoherent (as we've noticed when trying to pin down what exactly it's trying to say), I think it's still very much an ideological story tied to saying that very incoherent nonsense. There's no way to fix it without making it say something else, at which point it's no longer itself.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:47
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Robindaybird posted:yep, sometimes you can't - like all the dozens of people in the FATAL & Friends trying to fix Beast, in order to make it not terrible, you end up with something completely different. On the other hand many of the dozen alternate takes on Beast were interesting to consider in their own right. Even if you can't extinguish the tire-fire sometimes the sparks that it gives off take interesting shapes.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:56
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Oxxidation posted:YIIK might have one or two good ideas floating around in the mess, but as someone else said earlier in the thread there's no real narrative or thematic framework tying those ideas together - the game doesn't seem to be about anything besides aggrandizing itself Hot take: Grab Vella's character and backstory (that isn't related to the robot) and run with her and nothing else. Also, most of the Sherlock is an rear end in a top hat stuff comes from narrator Watson usually going, "Do we have to do another mystery right now? I'm rather busy at the moment." And then they do a mystery anyway because that's what Sherlock does.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:02
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I think you can make a parody game where you're a character drafted into some poo poo heads bad self-exalting RPG adventure and finding a way out of his nonsensical suicidal quest is your goal. Alex is a good antagonist because he's a self inserted gently caress face who expects you to like him as he treats his mom and his "friends" and everyone around him like dirt, yet he's expecting to get what he wants by default. An insufferable GM here to make you go through bad gameplay, bad music and bad story that you will come to respect - or else.
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Apr 23, 2019 18:07
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that concept barely managed to hold up over the course of a 90-minute Black Mirror episode, it'd burn out fast as a full-length game though The Hex did some interesting things about the relationship between creator and creation, and how grating it can be when the former is (deliberately) contemptible
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Apr 23, 2019 18:19
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Fixing Yuk is like trying to fix Homestuck: both are too gargantuan with some good things and whole shitpile of bad, questionable, or outright garbage threaded throughout it. Plus at the end of the day, it's still Yuk, it's still tainted with the original concepts of Elisa Lam, transphobic start screens, incest animes, weird 'ginger' = N Word jokes, objectified female characters, etc etc. You may as well make your own game. NEW GOON PROJECT: YaY!: a modern RPG. A love letter to dwarf fortress, cat photos, and Johnny Five Aces Also, I hope this isn't stalkerish, but I looked up the Phantom Sister, Brigid Allanson, and she was trying to kickstart a game after finishing artwork for Yuk. It looks pretty cool, honestly? Even for a visual novel type game. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lacunawalker/hush-hush-229 "You play as Candy Clark, who interacts with the agents from within her office. The only power you have is communication. You can see a visualization of your agents on your screen at all times as they approach their individual missions goals. However, from time to time they'll call in and need a pep talk, information for you to hack a system, or to save their game. " It's basically Metal Gear Solid, but you are the person the field operatives call for info and the like. I do hate that the only not-white character is so sexualized compared to the Alice in Wonderland character. Since this was in 2016, maybe Ms Allanson has improved since then. I really hope it's nothing like that voice command game Lifeline that Supergreatfriend played a while back. 'Leave the room' 'Start running? Ok!'
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Apr 23, 2019 18:38
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The problem with Alex as an antagonist is that he is defined as much by laziness and incompetence as well as selfishness. An antagonist by nature needs to be capable of taking offensive action the protagonists need to interfere with or avenge. Crabtree isn't wrong when he says Alex is eminently hateable, but if that panda hadn't been there Alex would have done literally nothing but talk about how in lust he was with Sammy.
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Apr 23, 2019 18:38
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:The problem with Alex as an antagonist is that he is defined as much by laziness and incompetence as well as selfishness. An antagonist by nature needs to be capable of taking offensive action the protagonists need to interfere with or avenge. Crabtree isn't wrong when he says Alex is eminently hateable, but if that panda hadn't been there Alex would have done literally nothing but talk about how in lust he was with Sammy. Alex reminds me a lot of Embyro from Cross Ange but also specifically the version in Super Robot Wars. Where he's such a smug sexist rear end in a top hat who thinks he's a good guy that well, it was incredibly incredibly satisfying to kill him in a boss fight. And in both Super Robot Wars entries when defeated every woman in your entire army/party basically tells him to gently caress off before they kill him. Kchama fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 18:56
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I think the thing that struck me the most in that Gamasutra interview is the part where he talks about how he and his brother made a Zelda 2 fangame as kids based only on a screenshot they saw and imagined how the game played. With other developers that would be a really fun and charming story about how they got their start, but here it's rather telling. Just like their old fangame was only based on a vague understanding of the source material, YIIK itself is entirely surface level; the brothers have learned nothing. For example, when Michael is first introduced he mentions Chrono Trigger and Lufia 2 are some of his favorite games and we can safely assume the developers also loved those games and took bits and pieces from them without understanding a single thing about why those elements worked as well as they did. Chrono Trigger has a bunch of sidequests right before the endgame and YIIK does too, but in Chrono Trigger those sidequests expand upon the world and the characters while in YIIK you're running through the same handful of areas killing the same enemies you've been killing and giving pogs to some random person. Lufia 2 has tools so YIIK has to have tools, but in Lufia 2 those tools are used for solving some pretty clever puzzles while in YIIK you're mostly just destroying endless lines of rocks and trees with no real thought involved. Even with something like the Shadow Hearts judgement ring compared to Alex's standard attack, the judgement ring wasn't perfect, but it still worked a lot better because it didn't take all that long and the game is willing to play around with it. Stronger weapons and abilities have trickier hit areas and both buffs and status ailments can directly affect the ring, such as by changing the speed the indicator sweeps at or the size of the hit areas. There are a billion different combat tracks in YIIK and having rhythm based minigames which change depending on the song would spice up the combat even when the enemy variety is as low as it is, it could be yet another nod to Earthbound since Mother 3 did something similar, and it's the most obvious thing in the world when your protagonist is literally swinging around vinyl records as weaponry. Everything is surface level and, despite the endless barrage of text, nothing is explored. Another big issue with YIIK which that interview shows Andrew Allanson does not understand is pacing. He says "I think people who finish the game see Alex through the redemption arc, and they often tend to end up relating to Alex more than they thought they would". The problem here is that, even if you take his word as truth and the end of the game somehow performs a miracle and does a surprisingly solid job of redeeming Alex, you have to finish the game for that to happen. That's absolutely terrible pacing! To use another 90's SNES classic as an example, imagine if Final Fantasy IV was nothing but 15+ hours of Cecil going around bombing villages and murdering civilians only for him becoming a paladin and fighting Golbez and Zeromus all to be crammed into literally the last hour of gameplay. Not every work needs to follow the structure of a five act play, but you can't have the entire thing be nothing but rising action only to cram in the resolution of every character arc and subplot at the last moment because by that point nobody cares anymore. As for how YIIK could have ever possibly been salvaged, the later parts of the game need to be tossed out entirely, there's no saving them, but there's a hint of something that could have worked in the early bits. Alex returns home after being away at college for years, he follows a cat through a path in the forest on a whim and encounters something supernatural that he can't explain (and has nothing to do with Sammy Pak). This causes a link between him and the supernatural and weird things start happening around him wherever he goes so he reaches out to a conspiracy theory site for help with these things which are impacting his life and freaking him out. Now the inciting incident directly involves Alex and most of the initial setup is still intact minus the entire can of worms involving Sammy Pak. Alex can still start off as an awful person, but make the part where he tells Rory that nobody cares about his dead sister while standing literally a foot away from the grave marking the spot where she committed suicide the climatic moment where Alex has crossed a threshold. He has become completely revolting to all of his friends and hits his absolute lowest point, from which he needs to slowly redeem himself with a bit more than a mediocre apology. The "Council of Alexes" kept mentioning how Alex has changed somehow, so let's have some time dedicated to exploring what made Alex change and how he used to be before the incident(s) that caused the change. It wouldn't excuse Alex's behavior, but it would make him a much more sympathetic character if the audience had greater incite into what made him the way he is and it would hint at whatever Alex would ultimately need to do to start becoming a better person. Give players a reason to want to see Alex redeem himself beyond hating the fact that they are stuck with him as the protagonist. As it stands, the creator's attitude of "people don't like YIIK because they don't understand it or they only saw fake screenshots" means YIIK was doomed from the start, along with all of his future endeavors, because he has learned nothing and refuses to learn anything. To him, YIIK is a virtually flawless triumph which only failed because it was simply too intelligent, too daring for the vast majority of its witless audience. There may be hints of what could have made for an amazing, or at least decent, story in the early parts, but they never had a chance with Andrew Allanson in charge.
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Apr 23, 2019 18:58
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For what it's worth, I would much rather reread Homestuck in its entirety than play YIIK once. Given how much more repugnant I find Andrew Allanson as a person and creator than Andrew Hussie, I'm wondering if latter-day Cerebus would be a better comparison.
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Apr 23, 2019 19:22
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to give the barest shred of credit, allanson is slightly right about one thing: the game recognizes that alex is flawed. but not how he's flawed. alex gets called out on making GBS threads on rory's dead sister, apologizes. okay, his callousness and selfishness are flaws that are recognized and deconstructed in a way that opens alex up for self-examination and change. (except not really because he gets to bully rory into suicide later on and nothing happens to him narratively, and the whole guilt speech was about nothing alex himself did and demands him to confront zilch about himself. but at least the start is there.) none of the others are, though. alex thinking he's above a vcr store job when he and his mom have no source of income and rely on job hunting is just there and goes nowhere. alex insisting that everyone else drop their lives to accommodate his is called out but has no payoff. (remember, he only apologizes to vella about the record, not about telling her to sacrifice her livelihood to have wacky adventures with him.) alex pursuing not!elisa to fulfil his own savior fantasy is called out but has no payoff. alex optionally needling chondra, another survivor of (functionally) dead family member trauma, is called out but has no payoff. alex being creepily in love with The Essential Oil Dispenser 2000 looks like it's gonna have an actual reflective callout in it but then it just devolves into a rambly discussion on unconditional love that, again, also goes nowhere. alex accepts his robo-waifu's fealty with minimal fuss. nothing changes. it's like the game wants us to know that alex is flawed, but not in, like, any specific way that could be used as a springboard for engaging character deconstruction and growth, just. flawed. Generic Store Brand Flawed. "you can't call alex a wish fulfilment self insert because he's Flawed(tm)" flawed. "text dumps that poo poo on alex for doing bad poo poo is the same as him changing as a person, right" flawed. in the same way the game tells us he's changed, allanson tells us he's flawed. it's like the word is a spell to him, one that speaks growth into existence without actually having to go through the effort of writing it. fluffyDeathbringer fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 19:32
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:The problem with Alex as an antagonist is that he is defined as much by laziness and incompetence as well as selfishness. An antagonist by nature needs to be capable of taking offensive action the protagonists need to interfere with or avenge. Crabtree isn't wrong when he says Alex is eminently hateable, but if that panda hadn't been there Alex would have done literally nothing but talk about how in lust he was with Sammy. I have a fix for this as well. Alex for the most part is doing what he does a lot in this game, narrating about his thoughts and feelings to a player that couldn't care less. These words shape your enemies and environments and thankfully, you can beat up speakers or video screens he can talk out of if he isn't physically near you, but when has that stopped the man or the character than thinking of themselves? Like Stanley Parable, but the point is to break the story by any means necessary because Alex has nothing of value to create or say about anything. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 19:32
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Solitair posted:For what it's worth, I would much rather reread Homestuck in its entirety than play YIIK once. Given how much more repugnant I find Andrew Allanson as a person and creator than Andrew Hussie, I'm wondering if latter-day Cerebus would be a better comparison. At least Cerebus started good, and for all of Dave Sim's deplorable views, he's an extremely talented sequential artist. He's one I really have to wrestle with in terms of "killing the author," because his comics have so much in them that's worth studying. YIIK is just shite all the way down. It's not even original shite, it's a purposeful pastiche of older works, meant to instill nostalgia, and it fails even at that. fluffyDeathbringer posted:to give the barest shred of credit, allanson is slightly right about one thing: the game recognizes that alex is flawed. but not how he's flawed. This is a failure of a lot of writing, I've found, where the author is either writing a self-insert or is way too close to their darling and can't be objective. They assign an arbitrary flaw or two, and then say, "Look everyone, my character has an issue, therefore they are not perfect nor are they a self-insert!" without actually accounting for characterization, plausibility, or anything really. They're just filling out their role playing character sheet like, "M'kay, so I need an extra point in STR, so I'm gonna take a flaw where I have a stutter. Yeah! Complex characterization!" Only it doesn't actually affect them in any substantial way, they forget to RP it half the time, and the other half of the time they only use it to make other characters feel bad for noticing. Similar to when you ask someone in a job interview what they would consider their weakness, and they say something like, "My biggest flaw is I work TOO hard," and you roll your eyes and move their resume to the, "probably not," pile. Dirt Road Junglist fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 19:37
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I get the impression "Alex as a flawed character" is being retroactively asserted in response to the criticism. Remember, Alex's in game description is that he's just like you, and none of the promotional material mentions a redemption arc at all. This is why Alex never gets that job, meaningfully apologizes to Vella, or has Not2B tell him that yes he is responsible for being a worthless trash person. The monologues are supposed to make you care about him but are poorly written trash. My guess is one of the 5 people who like yiik suggested the flawed character redemption interpretation and Allanson grabbed onto this like a starving man hiding food based evidence from the police.
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Apr 23, 2019 20:14
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All of this is good poo poo you guys, but you're forgetting that these tits also made Two Brothers, this isn't their first rodeo. And I can firmly say that YIIK is FAR less compelling than Two Brothers. At least in that game you understood why your character was the way he was; he lost everything precious to him, and when he finally tried to die, he realized he couldn't even do that either. That's why he acts cold and callous before eventually opening up a bit. Like even TB had better side-quests because those actually had dialogue and optional bosses and you achieved poo poo. Like you put a spirit to rest and got a cool glowing scythe out of the deal. YIIK has nothing. Gameplay wise this game is a regression. Seeric posted:I think the thing that struck me the most in that Gamasutra interview is the part where he talks about how he and his brother made a Zelda 2 fangame as kids based only on a screenshot they saw and imagined how the game played. With other developers that would be a really fun and charming story about how they got their start, but here it's rather telling. Just like their old fangame was only based on a vague understanding of the source material, YIIK itself is entirely surface level; the brothers have learned nothing. Motherfucker you don't know the half of it. In their previous game there are parts where you can choose to not follow the critical path and explore beyond the "established boundries". And you know what's there? Nothing. No sign posts, no items, no details. Just a much stricter border to the north. And if you go east, it stretches for like 10 top-down zelda-sized screens, before eventually dumping you on the path you were meant to be on. Why even let players do this in the first place then?
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Apr 23, 2019 20:56
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value-brand cereal posted:NEW GOON PROJECT: YaY!: a modern RPG. A love letter to dwarf fortress, cat photos, and Johnny Five Aces A quest to find the secret unreleased photos of Microwave's mom so you can charge the J/o Crystals with your bros and migrate the forums to XenForo 3000, curing Lowtax's spinal problems and keeping our forums dead and gay forever.
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Apr 23, 2019 21:00
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The Nameless Mod for the new generation
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Apr 23, 2019 21:15
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Just binged the videos and this thread over the past two weeks and wowza, it's amazing how bad this game is. It's a credit to you GrandmaParty and your guests how entertaining the videos are, considering the game has absolutely no entertainment. Also thanks to everyone who posted their cats, they are all very adorable kitties.
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Apr 23, 2019 21:28
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I get the impression "Alex as a flawed character" is being retroactively asserted in response to the criticism. Remember, Alex's in game description is that he's just like you, and none of the promotional material mentions a redemption arc at all. I don't entirely agree with this. I think Alex was intended to come off as flawed since he does get rightfully called out on his bullshit even by his internal Alexes. The problem is that, as others have said, YIIK worships mediocrity, maybe outright fetishizes it. Alex does get redemption, but to YIIK redemption means going from being "a person who never apologizes for anything and doesn't realize they are awful" to being "a person who can apologize for awful behavior once in a while". Just look at how it rewards Alex for his presumed growth. What Alex says to Rory is something which, if I was in Rory's position, would make me never want to talk to that person ever again, especially since the two barely knew each other to begin with, yet all the player has to do is choose to have Alex apologize and rewards are absolutely heaped upon Alex from the heavens; Rory apologizes to Alex in turn, agrees to be his friend and tag along with him on his adventure, and offers him a job. Presumably, he'd still tag along, offer a job, and pick Alex as the person to open up to about his depression even if Alex refuses to apologize. The same thing happens with Vella. Who knows if Alex would have ever apologized to her if the plot didn't make her the one person in the world he needed to get something from, but after one halfhearted apology for not even half the things he did he suddenly becomes the one everyone else thinks should be the one to go find Vella after they listen to the record and she runs away. One mediocre, possibly insincere apology is all it takes for everything to be forgiven and for an awkward, semi-romantic relationship to form in the world of YIIK. This is one of the biggest reasons why the writing in YIIK feels so awful. The internal logic of the world of YIIK is so messed up that redemption is only ever one apology away. As far as YIIK is concerned, Alex doesn't need to stop being awful because he's already a much better person now that he has learned to apologize once in a while. Apologies are not only always accepted, they are outright rewarded. There is nothing that Alex can do or say that can't ultimately be fixed by him saying some variation of "I'm sorry that I was such a jerk back there, but you're a cool person and I'd like to still be friends". YIIK vastly overestimates how much Alex has grown as a person by this point, which leads to the average player thinking Alex is still awful while the logic of YIIK states that at this point Alex may still be flawed, but only in the way that all humans are flawed, imperfect creatures and it is through those flaws that we grow stronger and become better and so on and so forth.
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Apr 23, 2019 21:39
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Kiddos, I have a gift for you. I asked Andrew the question.  His linked response: quote:Hey guys! I'm stealing this from JetpackJeezus "Sounds like someone read a book." G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 21:54
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I repeat: "We did it because that's how it's supposed to be done," rather than, "Does this fit our design?" This is just a hodgepodge of different things that are maybe post modern depending on the context? But none of it points to an overarching vision or goal. YIIK is mediocre because it tries to do too much without any concrete plans.
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Apr 23, 2019 22:00
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ahahahahaha he literally can't even talk about postmodernism, just aping authors that are postmodern he literally can't actually discuss the principles of postmodernism in relation to his game, only gesture at other authors
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Apr 23, 2019 22:07
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This isn't magical realism in the slightest. One of the notable traits of magical realism - in 100 Years of Solitude anyway - is that the characters don't find the supernatural that put of the ordinary and its baked into the world. No one ever sits down and goes "wow there's a bunch of weird magic poo poo, why is this" and it ties together with the novel's themes of a changing country and general confusion. Yiik has a weird split between everyday supernatural events like evil skulls that attack you going unquestioned but evil necromancer alpacas yelling lemonade are out of place and explicitly against the order of the world.
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Apr 23, 2019 22:12
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I'm not a huge postmodern scholar or anything (although A Wild Sheep Chase is one of my favorite books), but my take away from that is that his argument that the game is postmodern is that he used the very surface-level elements of postmodern stuff he'd read, and made a lot of references to other things?quote:So, we wanted to see how we could create a battle mode around Pastiche. YIIK, features a battle mode designed around Genre Blending. Each mini game represents a different genre, as a sort of nod to the Maximalist styles of David Foster Wallace in Infinite Jest and Tri-stan. Are you kidding me quote:Of course, there is a load more things I can get into Go ahead. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 22:16
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GrandmaParty posted:Kiddos, I have a gift for you. How are you not banned yet?
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Apr 23, 2019 22:18
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Combat Lobster posted:How are you not banned yet? Dude I don't even know.
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Apr 23, 2019 22:19
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Do any of the unironic fans in that discord know you're making a derisive LP of the game
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Apr 23, 2019 22:24
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Do any of the unironic fans in that discord know you're making a derisive LP of the game If they do they haven't mentioned it to me. Aside from jumping around barking about Goku I've behaved and I'm also pretty nice if you haven't noticed. 
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Apr 23, 2019 22:24
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If I understand this correctly, by his definition of postmodernism, minigame collections like WarioWare or Mario Party are at the absolute peak of postmodern game design because they often combine multiple genres into a single game, rivaled only by works which feature metafiction. In this case, "metafiction" seems to refer primarily to self-referential humor, so he must absolutely adore the endless ocean of RPG Maker games and webcomics from around the turn of the century which point out how it sure is wacky that this unarmed NPC has made it all the way to the end of the monster-infested dungeon. His argument that the presence of Onism is an example of metafiction makes absolutely no sense. Yes, the conspiracy theory forum is in the game and they clearly put a lot of work into that fake website, but this isn't "a game about a website". Onism is a part of the world and plays a role in the narrative, but it's not the central focus of YIIK as you can ignore it for hours on end. You may as well say that Earthbound is "a metafiction game about a music band" because it has a music band in it that sometimes plays an important role. Seeric fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 22:37
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quote:But, too many people couldn’t tell it was an RPG when they just scrolled by, so we wanted to have the name be able to explain to the player what kind of game it was. oh yeah who could forget such classics as "Final Fantasy IX: The Nostalgia RPG" or "Planescape: Torment, The hosed Up RPG". the best game designers have to tell you what kind of game you're playing quote:Each mini game represents a different genre what loving genre is "hula hoop" or "camera" or "sword" or "lp". what loving genre quote:and will feature some allusions to Chrono Trigger, Pokemon, and many other games, in order to pay homage to the genre defining games that responsible for it’s influence… while also trying to expand on them. YOU HAVE A loving AERIS RIGHT loving AARGH
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Apr 23, 2019 22:44
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“When it came to my game, I never took any shortcuts. Over the past five years, I’d worked my way down the entire recommended game genre list. Puzzle, Shooter, Beat'emup, Platformer, SHMUP, Fighting, RTS, TBS, Adventure, Action, Simulation, Dating Sim, RPG (j and c), Rhythm. I included every single genre I figured would get gamers to buy my game." ― Andrew Allanson, creator of YIIK
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Apr 23, 2019 22:51
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Seeric posted:If I understand this correctly, by his definition of postmodernism, minigame collections like WarioWare or Mario Party are at the absolute peak of postmodern game design because they often combine multiple genres into a single game, rivaled only by works which feature metafiction. In this case, "metafiction" seems to refer primarily to self-referential humor, so he must absolutely adore the endless ocean of RPG Maker games and webcomics from around the turn of the century which point out how it sure is wacky that this unarmed NPC has made it all the way to the end of the monster-infested dungeon. I actually think you could make an argument for WarioWare being postmodern but only if interpreted though some fairly specific lenses as an exploration of the idea of games, attention span and wealth through the character of Wario and his crew.
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Apr 23, 2019 22:56
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Wow, he's an idiot. I mean, we knew this, but it bears repeating. His explanation is utter word salad. Reading that, I'm genuinely at a loss as to whether he failed to understand postmodernism, or whether he just doesn't know that words (or, for that matter, things like symbolic elements) mean things at all. He seems to genuinely think that if you mimic the surface and stylistic elements of a thing, that's the same as being the thing; put differently, he seems to think that postmodernism is just a name for these various aesthetic elements. Whatever postmodernism is, it isn't that. Whatever you happen to think of postmodernism (and the fact is, it's a term that gets misused quite frequently; I'll admit it was a bit of a shock to me to learn what it actually is when my first encounter with the word was people like Richard Dawkins sneering at a strawman of it), it was an intellectual/philosophical/critical movement that had things to say about things like the ways we process information, tell stories and think about things. Allanson doesn't even rise to the level of engaging with straw-postmodernism. He's just doing a cargo-cult imitation, and thinks that makes him look deep or something. The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
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Apr 23, 2019 23:02
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As everyone said, Yiik has two major problems: 1: Most of the game is derivative, like a TVtropes workshopped story - Shadow Hearts, Earthbound, Undertale, Persona, Murakami's books, all copied without thought as to how they work or that all those elements have clashing ideas and design points that do not jive together, and the voice acting comments cements that they did because 'that's what you expect'. And there's that baby's first writing trap of "More words = good", which makes it more staggering as this isn't their first game, they should know better, but they don't. 2: The writers are painfully, painfully white, cishet and male. Not knocking all straight white dudes, but there's an absolute level of sheer loving arrogance and willful blindness in the game's writing that can only come from a pretty privileged point where their sheer mediocrity and opinions is worth the same or more than other people's talent and work. The way the plot goes out of it's way to excuse Alex's atrocious behavior, and the blithe assumption that anyone playing is 'just like Alex' just shows they got a very narrow world.
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Apr 23, 2019 23:11
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Mors Rattus posted:I actually think you could make an argument for WarioWare being postmodern but only if interpreted though some fairly specific lenses as an exploration of the idea of games, attention span and wealth through the character of Wario and his crew. Oh, there's absolutely an argument there. It's a deconstruction of what is a game, by making a game OF games, but also with the property of the twisted version of one of Nintendo's (and, really, all of media's) most enduring heroes and mascots. It's SUPER post modern. Zanzibar Ham posted:“When it came to my game, I never took any shortcuts. Over the past five years, I’d worked my way down the entire recommended game genre list. Puzzle, Shooter, Beat'emup, Platformer, SHMUP, Fighting, RTS, TBS, Adventure, Action, Simulation, Dating Sim, RPG (j and c), Rhythm. I included every single genre I figured would get gamers to buy my game." "I wanted to make the best movie, so I made a movie that's action, driving, romance, drama, kung fu, foreign, porno, documentary, AND it's in a special version of 3D that I just made up with my brother!"
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Apr 24, 2019 00:04
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I think you just described Bollywood
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Apr 24, 2019 00:15
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A Jack(off) of all trades and a master of none
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Apr 24, 2019 00:17
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