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If you've accepted the offer in any form, even verbally, you don't really have standing to go back and ask for more money
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Apr 21, 2019 16:36
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Vegetable posted:If you've accepted the offer in any form, even verbally, you don't really have standing to go back and ask for more money I already excepted verbally and the unofficial e-mail so yeah this is kind of what I’m thinking. But then I get conflicting advice in this thread so I’m torn.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:09
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I would probably pull the offer of you tried to pull that poo poo honestly.
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Apr 21, 2019 20:21
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spwrozek posted:I would probably pull the offer of you tried to pull that poo poo honestly. Yeah I think my window passed for negotiation but lesson learnt. Oh well still a raise and a better atmosphere
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Apr 21, 2019 20:32
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Yeah I wouldn’t brood over it. There is always more you could have done. Take the quality of life improvement and skip along.
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Apr 22, 2019 06:16
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Not Grover posted:That’s loving criminal - get thee away from this place if you can manage it. Maybe negotiate hard af to the best number you can get, then look at leveraging the new title into something at a place that will pay you money. Offered 55k salary, no benefits, no bonus that I know of. Do I even bother with a counter offer? https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Senior_Accountant/Salary/14d22e81/Boston-MA
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Apr 23, 2019 16:58
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Wow, that is just a pile of garbage. I will say that you are in the better position though. They want you and don't want to pay what they are and they trust you. I would probably just decline saying it is better for you working with the recruiter. They will either keep you in that role, find someone else to train again (that could be worse), or maybe offer you more money. spwrozek fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 17:03
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Even if they do offer you more money, do you want to work there? You know raises will be crappy since they criminally underpay already and no benefits.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:21
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Chaotic Flame posted:Even if they do offer you more money, do you want to work there? You know raises will be crappy since they criminally underpay already and no benefits. I think the idea would be suck it up for a year or so and apply to other Director level jobs.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:58
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Simpsons Reference posted:Offered 55k salary, no benefits, no bonus that I know of. Do I even bother with a counter offer? No harm in offering a counter for funsies. But yeah, your top priority should be getting other offers because these people suck
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Apr 23, 2019 17:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think the idea would be suck it up for a year or so and apply to other Director level jobs.
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Apr 23, 2019 18:24
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What I have working against me is that my recent work history is a little questionable, with some short term positions and gaps. And if I go back to searching for jobs, it's likely back down to staff level. The title of manager, if a little embellished, is a big boost to my career. I'm hoping to turn this in to a large step up in salary when I jump ship. Talked to the recruiter, who suggests countering with a modest step up in pay, a six month review, more flexible schedule, and bonus eligibility. Moneyball fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 19:04
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This is just me, but I'd negotiate for paid leave instead of a bonus. Bonuses are never guaranteed.
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Apr 23, 2019 20:20
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Inept posted:This is just me, but I'd negotiate for paid leave instead of a bonus. Bonuses are never guaranteed. This is a good idea.
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Apr 23, 2019 20:27
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They have, surprise surprise, "unlimited PTO"
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Apr 23, 2019 20:39
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Simpsons Reference posted:They have, surprise surprise, "unlimited PTO" Hahahahah got lovely employer bingo yet? If you really think the manager title on that resume is worth it, by all means, go for it. Negotiate hard and extract your pound of flesh, though. "A 6 month review" is worse than worthless. No benefits, seriously? If I were you I'd be flinging resumes every which way for the duration of employment, because they sound horrid and I'd at least like to get decent loving health insurance as a manager.
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Apr 23, 2019 22:09
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Not a Children posted:Hahahahah got lovely employer bingo yet? Using comp time til I told them of the huge legal liability they had. Now they cut down to 40 hours and some people are annoyed
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Apr 23, 2019 22:13
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Christ unlimited PTO should be a massive red flag to anyone. It is so loving devious, and most junior folks think it’s an excellent idea (and then end up taking only a week a year instead of the 2+ they would be forced to take or paid for beforehand.) A company that acquired mine instituted it, and then we were bought yet again and they’re rolling it back and of course people are getting hosed if they had a certain number of pto days pre first acquisition. If it’s company wide I don’t know what could be done about it though other than a direct negotiation with the manager to agree you get x number of days a year, and you will take them hell or high water. E: also a previous coworker referred to comp time as “singe time” because you always end up getting burned.
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Apr 23, 2019 22:16
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Simpsons Reference posted:What I have working against me is that my recent work history is a little questionable, with some short term positions and gaps. And if I go back to searching for jobs, it's likely back down to staff level. The title of manager, if a little embellished, is a big boost to my career. I'm hoping to turn this in to a large step up in salary when I jump ship.
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Apr 24, 2019 01:16
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Dik Hz posted:If you're currently gainfully employed, walk away. That's some bullshit. A six month review will never happen, Unlimited PTO is a trap for new employees, and bonus eligibility is completely meaningless unless it's guaranteed. Don't get paid in promises. He works there now through an agency. So it is definitely a weird situation. I would probably come back at $75k and if they can't do that just stick with the contract work with them.
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Apr 24, 2019 01:40
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Not a Children posted:Hahahahah got lovely employer bingo yet? Offered 2.5k more and said I can't get a raise for the employee I took from another role to make the AR/AP admin. I feel like Baron Fuzzlewhack from several posts ago not being able to get reasonable adjustments for the people working under him. This employee is making $14/hr, again in Boston, and apparently is pegged to remain at the same rate of pay despite taking on a lot more work.
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Apr 24, 2019 18:56
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Goddamn. $14 an hour in boston is awful awful awful. I hope your employee gets out. As for you: You're getting hosed, just not quite as badly. Accept it if you want to have something steady, but whether you do or not, find other offers. I mean it. No title is worth being that grossly underpaid.
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Apr 24, 2019 20:25
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Well poo poo. I dialed back my offer a bit to get them to bump up the pay rate for the admin, and now the admin is pissed because it's not enough to switch from office assistant to AR/AP admin, which I agree with. 
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Apr 25, 2019 18:48
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I recently talked to a recruiter about a position in another state that I'd be very interested in. I am in no way interested in moving, however. Is it a waste of time going through the process with the intention of countering any offer I were to receive with "I'll take $X,000 less if I can work remotely"? Or should I be up-front about my "no-moving" policy and definitely ruin any chances I'd have at interviewing? I'm in software, and have a lot of experience working remotely, so it's not a hard thing to imagine someone doing. And based on the salary range the recruiter gave me, I could afford to make that X reduction pretty high.
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Apr 25, 2019 19:41
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There's a tradeoff here that you've recognized - some companies are going to say no to that. Do you struggle to make time to interview? Get emotionally invested in a new place before it's settled? I think the power move is to interview anyway and spring it on them at the end, but some companies are just going to say no. Nonspecifically asking "How often do folks work remotely?" is a reasonable response to "Any questions for me?" during the interview as well, but I'd wait for them to fly you out for that, not the phone interview. Basically, you want them as attached as possible to the idea of hiring you and thus solving their problems. Don't do the "I'll take less money for this" thing - let them come up with that idea to make themselves feel whole on the deal, don't negotiate against yourself before you start. On the other hand, if everyone is saying no to the request, maybe it's not realistic to interview everywhere and filter after the fact. I personally have never asked this question as I am mostly only capable of not-working from home. I honestly wouldn't tell any of this to the recruiter. It's between you and the company - cut them out to the degree you can. A given recruiter is usually good for a few interviews, take them and then move on, don't let them jerk you around and give you the dregs if their best prospects don't work out.
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Apr 25, 2019 19:53
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silvergoose posted:Okay I'm potentially at offer stage. Had my first in person interview and they seem to really like me. I also have an in person interview with a different company later this week. Wacky job hunting ensued. This place got me to give a pie in the sky number, they actually offered a decent bit lower, I negotiated it up slightly, and kept interviewing at a place I was also excited about. Who proceeded to do a full day, brought me in for a second full day, then rejected me "due to not having a team where I could make a big impact" whatever the poo poo that means. Then I took that first offer, which I'm glad I negotiated up and is ridiculously convenient commute wise, and that about settles my hunt. I appreciate the advice, and maybe next time (not anytime soon I hope) I'll just be able to handle it without! Or I'll be back.
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Apr 25, 2019 20:11
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Good-Natured Filth posted:I recently talked to a recruiter about a position in another state that I'd be very interested in. I am in no way interested in moving, however. Is it a waste of time going through the process with the intention of countering any offer I were to receive with "I'll take $X,000 less if I can work remotely"? Or should I be up-front about my "no-moving" policy and definitely ruin any chances I'd have at interviewing?
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Apr 26, 2019 00:21
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Good-Natured Filth posted:I recently talked to a recruiter about a position in another state that I'd be very interested in. I am in no way interested in moving, however. Is it a waste of time going through the process with the intention of countering any offer I were to receive with "I'll take $X,000 less if I can work remotely"? Or should I be up-front about my "no-moving" policy and definitely ruin any chances I'd have at interviewing?
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Apr 26, 2019 04:10
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Good-Natured Filth posted:I recently talked to a recruiter about a position in another state that I'd be very interested in. I am in no way interested in moving, however. Is it a waste of time going through the process with the intention of countering any offer I were to receive with "I'll take $X,000 less if I can work remotely"? Or should I be up-front about my "no-moving" policy and definitely ruin any chances I'd have at interviewing? why would you not just tell them up front rather than wasting their time and yours
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Apr 26, 2019 13:27
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Thanks for all the advice everyone. I emailed the recruiter about my unwillingness to move and will not plan to use that in negotiations in the future.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:36
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In the time lurking this thread I know the first and most correct answer for me is "start looking for another job" and of course that's happening, but for now I'm in a position I've never found myself in and would like some outside feedback. I work at one of the Big Banks, was brought in two years ago with my boss to build part of a new business. They brought us in (her Director, me VP) to build it from scratch and once we did, we brought in an AVP and a first year Analyst for ops work. So the group was the four of us, with my boss and I being the only two in the bank who know this job (which was why they hired us to start it). This past week, they laid off a bunch of Directors, mine included. This was after a few weeks ago they moved our Analyst to another group since they needed more personnel there. Completely usual company re-org, no one who was let go was "bad at their job". So now I'm Analyst, VP, and Director of my group (obviously I'm still paid and titled as a VP). Everyone on the floor is shaken since pretty much everyone's bosses got let go. But while they moved the other groups under new Directors immediately, the MD of the entire program just straight up told me the group (all two of us) is mine and it's pretty obvious they're not sure where we're going to go just yet. Job is (now) more secure because I'm the last one left who can do this job. At the very least, the part of the business we built is in no danger of being shut down because it's a product the bank has to offer to their clients. Obvious first thought is "gently caress you, pay me" and I know I can't just say that but I do feel I have some leverage to ask for something since they're currently a little on their back foot realizing now that I have zero backup and as far as business continuity goes they're short-term hosed if I walk. Yes I know no one is irreplaceable but with the scrutiny this whole program is getting from the C-level, it would look very bad for management if I were to leave right now. My past reviews have been stellar, the Directors of other groups know I know my poo poo and have been very supportive, and if they didn't think I could run this desk they would have brought in another Director like they did the other three groups that were shaken up. So my thoughts are this: One, I want the AVP to report to me. In the past we both reported to the Director. We know each other well, already work closely with each other, and she's been running everything through me for a while anyway. If anything this would help career/management/resume-wise. Two, I can't just say make me a director since that's already a highly regulated annual-review nightmare that requires a whole bunch of approvals, but I want to put that bug in their heads since on paper I meet all the minimum requirements experience-wise. And Three, while salaries/bonuses are done at the end of the year, there has got to be some kind of off-cycle way to discuss at least getting me out of the bottom-tier VP pay level given what's happened. Am I crazy for thinking I have asks here? I have a meeting with the MD this week and already have a list of things we need to discuss that aren't the above, I just need to figure out how to approach this discussion as well.
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May 5, 2019 14:40
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You're in a fascinating spot. Here's the thing you should keep in mind, and evaluate how to proceed accordingly: Your leverage isn't about your qualifications. Your leverage is about your BATNA. i.e., your willingness to leave if you don't get what you want. If they believe your BATNA is accepting doing Director work for low-end VP salary, they will probably be content to play the usual carrot-on-a-stick game of stringing you along with vague verbal promises indefinitely while they get their poo poo together (and, likely, eventually hire someone else to be Director). If they are caused to believe your BATNA is immediate resignation in favor of a role with a different company, then (assuming they do in fact want this department to continue operating, and assuming they in fact want you to be Director in this department, which you seem to believe is true even if there's no hard evidence of it) they will be motivated to compensate you enough to make you happy and keep you in place. It's a very big difference. Probably, unless you have a very good reason to believe otherwise, you shouldn't approach them for a raise until you have another offer in pocket or are very confident one will be forthcoming. Otherwise you don't have any leverage, and bluffing about it is dangerous (the people you will be negotiating with are probably better poker players than you). edit: If they actually want you to be Director of this department long term, then they should be approaching *you* with an appropriate offer for that role (or at least an invitation to interview for it). Megalith corporations can of course move very slowly, so maybe that's forthcoming, but if it hasn't happened in, like, two months, then IMO it is clear by that point that they do not want you to be Director long term, but feel confident you will fill the role cheaply and temporarily while they take their sweet time finding the right person to bring in from outside (or wind things down and then eliminate the department). Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 14:55
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It's a cynic vs optimist thing. The cynical approach (they will string me along as a cheap VP while they make me do Director work) is obviously what they'd do, and I'm not honestly thinking otherwise. But on the other hand, I have to stay in an optimistic mindset and also play the game a little. Ultimately yeah, I don't have another job offer in hand (right now), so gently caress you pay me doesn't work, but I would feel remiss for at least not making it known to them that I am thinking about that. Right now there's a lot of reshuffling and reorg going on right now and I want to try to place myself in a position to benefit from it, so I felt like if I said nothing at all then I'd be easily forgotten. If I said something, at least I'd know I tried before they said lolno. Edit: To your edit, because of how slow things move here, right now could very well be a legit "prove yourself" time. If I get the promotion, great, if not, I've got one hell of a bullet on my resume. Fhqwhgads fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 15:17
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The best time to start interviewing to get offers on the table was last month. The second best time is right now.
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May 6, 2019 07:10
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The baller move is to schedule HR to your meeting with the MD and have them schedule you an interview for the director position, while also booking vacation days (probably 1 a week?) to go interview at other positions. In the meantime, they can taste how everything slows down when you're not there, and you've already given them the path forward to solve their problem. Very straightforward.
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May 6, 2019 16:22
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Fhqwhgads posted:It's a cynic vs optimist thing. The cynical approach (they will string me along as a cheap VP while they make me do Director work) is obviously what they'd do, and I'm not honestly thinking otherwise. But on the other hand, I have to stay in an optimistic mindset and also play the game a little. Ultimately yeah, I don't have another job offer in hand (right now), so gently caress you pay me doesn't work, but I would feel remiss for at least not making it known to them that I am thinking about that. Right now there's a lot of reshuffling and reorg going on right now and I want to try to place myself in a position to benefit from it, so I felt like if I said nothing at all then I'd be easily forgotten. If I said something, at least I'd know I tried before they said lolno. You're high enough up that everything is a 1-off. Play the game.
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May 7, 2019 01:53
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How much have I screwed over myself? I'm negotiating salary at a new job on Thursday, and I know from my recruiter, that their expected budget for the position is 50-60DKK a month. However, I let it slip that I expected at least 43-45DKK a month to the development manager at our chat at the second interview yesterday. From reading this thread, I'm afraid that I have sold myself too cheaply now, and that it will be too late/dishonest to ask for more tomorrow. 1) The COO I'm negotiating with on thursday was not at either of the interviews yesterday, so I don't know how much the dev. manager has told the CO. 2) The recruiter told me the feedback from the senior developers at my technical interview yesterday: they were "very impressed with my solution and results," and that I seemed genuinely interested in the position (which I am.) 3) I have had offers from other places, but nothing remotely as interesting as this. Can I recover? edit: Is it a very bad move to let them know what their original budget was, if they insist on my dumb anchor? And there's also the possibility that they think I anchored my self too low, and that they just straight up offer something in the low end of their budget. Cucumbers fucked around with this message at 11:58 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 10:51
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Say you misspoke and hope nobody dwells on it.
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May 7, 2019 12:19
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if you already knew the budget why didn't you immediately reanchor your lower number to their budget?
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May 7, 2019 12:27
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Just say that it depends on the benefits package and with the benefits they presented you need at least <new number within their budget>
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