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As Nero Danced posted:Speaking of, the climax devolved into a big football play but with GIRL POWER. Which made no sense at all. They lateraled the loving gauntlet to multiple heroes, all of which could have done the same thing Tony did, just so Tony could have a dramatic death. The lack of logic in this movie is starting to make me legitimately angry. The whole thing is written around scenes and not bothering to care about how to realistically get to those scenes.
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Apr 25, 2019 16:35
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Darko posted:Thor or Hulk or Captain Marvel could have totally used the stones to bring Tony back or anyone else who had died that they care about. That was never imposed as a limitation. Also, singular stones, like reality, could be used to fix any withered arms and such. Every protagonist is as dumb as Thanos was in the first movie. It's absolutely hilarious. They've got the means to basically pull the end of every Bill and Ted movie. If you win the fight, you can guarantee that you suffer zero consequences. They created this omnipotently powerful macguffin but then impose completely arbitrary restrictions because reasons. It's real bad.
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Apr 25, 2019 16:39
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AlternateAccount posted:It's absolutely hilarious. They've got the means to basically pull the end of every Bill and Ted movie. If you win the fight, you can guarantee that you suffer zero consequences. They created this omnipotently powerful macguffin but then impose completely arbitrary restrictions because reasons. It's real bad. Knowing the plot before you see the movie makes all of this more maddening; and I think that's the difference that is going to happen tonight. The movie is written entirely around "cool moments you want to see," and that will make Marvel fans happy when they first see it. But none of it makes any goddamn sense, to the point of giving me a headache, once you actually look at the movie and try to figure out the sequence of events.
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Apr 25, 2019 16:45
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Bedshaped posted:It will be interesting to see if any one of the future MCU writers, especially Far From Home, will actually engage with the hosed up world they have created by having literally half the world population jump forward 5 years into this hellworld where everyone's friends and family are 5 years older and homeless people have moved into all the empty mansions or will they just lampshade it away. The logical result of all this is Half of all populations die due to mass suicides after the two groups of people attempt and fail horribly to re integrate with each other
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Apr 25, 2019 16:47
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They were footballing the gauntlet around because the plan was to go return the stones and not use them again. Of course anyone could have used them but it was a Captain America 'let's try and save everyone' kind of plan' and Iron Man decided to run the ball rather than pass. He got the touchdown but got sacked into the endzone and had to retire due to injuries. Who would have thought a movie about 6 magic stones that let you make wishes would make people in SA lost their minds about "what could character X have done instead" I honestly can't wait for the Aladdin thread. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 16:48
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On the big ending: Dr Strange already used the time stone once to bring Wong and everyone else in Hong Kong back to life, so no reason he can't use it on Tony, unless maybe that would undo his snap? I dunno, they wanted this to be the big emotional hit of the movie so that's what we got. e:vv It was the first one that worked and he was tired of looking, so a better solution was never explored. As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 16:50
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Vitamin P posted:Literally don't think about the plot it doesn't make sense the setting doesn't make sense none of it makes sense. It's not (just) the plot though; it's the narrative. In the movie Signs, everything is contrived so that, when the family survives at the end, they realize it's a miracle and obviously God was watching over them. You can certainly poke a lot of holes in that belief but, then, the resulting conclusion is that it was all just dumb luck and the God story is what they tell themselves to make sense of this meaningless universe - a recurring theme in Shyamalan's films. The narrative of people regaining their faith still works, and even gets much more nuanced. With this film, like, is Doctor Strange lying when he says this is the only possible outcome? Because he says he tried 14 million possibilities, and he knows only one can work. But then, in this possibility, he holds up his finger and says this is the successful version. That means there are now two possibilities that worked: one where he holds up his finger and one where he doesn't. Or, in his previous attempt, they almost beat Thanos but he didn't hold up his finger and Stark consequently chickened out at the last second. What this means is actually that Strange just isn't very imaginative. It's not that there are no better timelines - it's that he's spent like 80 million years abusing save-states to force this one lovely outcome, and then called it good enough. So Benedict Cumberbatch caused everyone to become stupid, because smart behaviour doesn't gel with his preferred outcome. And, like, why would anyone do that? And why would you make a film where this happens?
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Apr 25, 2019 16:51
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PaybackJack posted:They were footballing the gauntlet around because the plan was to go return the stones and not use them again. Of course anyone could have used them but it was a Captain America 'let's try and save everyone' kind of plan' and Iron Man decided to run the ball rather than pass. He got the touchdown but got sacked into the endzone and had to retire due to injuries. That's the stupidest possible plan. It doesn't make any sense. I don't care a single bit about plotholes in films, but it's just dumb. They had a ton of time to think about this. Aladdin is about a street rat who had meager dreams that was trying to win a woman that he was into, and the movie organically works around that. This is about 20 something odd people, including two of the most brilliant people on the planet with a genie's lamp that got hit with the idiot ball so you can manipulate the audience's emotions at the end.
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Apr 25, 2019 17:03
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As Nero Danced posted:It was the first one that worked and he was tired of looking, so a better solution was never explored. Right, and it means the movie literally ends because Benedict Cumberbatch got bored! That's the endgame! 64 hours, plus multiple TV shows! He's just like "uhhh whatever." 
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Apr 25, 2019 17:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Right, and it means the movie literally ends because Benedict Cumberbatch got bored! That's the endgame! Nah, it just means this was the only route where Dr. Strange could guarantee he got to live and stark died without stark realizing he'd been set up by strange
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Apr 25, 2019 17:15
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mastershakeman posted:Nah, it just means sonofabitch
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Apr 25, 2019 17:19
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Thats the same as Infinity War though. Tons of Wakandan soldiers die because they are worth less to the heroes than one Vision.
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Apr 25, 2019 17:20
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Vitamin P posted:Thats the same as Infinity War though. Tons of Wakandan soldiers die because they are worth less to the heroes than one Vision. We don’t trade lives! 
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Apr 25, 2019 17:32
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mastershakeman posted:Nah, it just means lmao that rules
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Apr 25, 2019 17:50
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I will say that while I definitely didn’t think of it in the moment (because I’m not really a plothole-focused guy), including two totally separate all-powerful plot devices is really tempting fate with the “wait why didn’t they just...” crowd. I think it’s help slightly by having “you can’t change the past, just visit and bring stuff back” as the rule for time travel but it does sorta make you wonder, especially once Hank Pym is back and you have a fairly limitless supply of Pym Particles.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:00
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Darko posted:The lack of logic in this movie is starting to make me legitimately angry. Hahahahahahahaha. Thread title please.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:24
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DC Murderverse posted:I think it’s help slightly by having “you can’t change the past, just visit and bring stuff back” as the rule for time travel Nope! The quantum machine can't change "the natural laws", but the green gem can. That's what the whole Dr. Strange movie was about. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 18:26
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Endgame was... pretty good. The film feels more like a TV show series finale, but I don't mean that as a slight. It's more of an event/celebration than like a movie, if that makes sense, full of spectacle and fanservice and it works. It's a bit self-indulgent at times, but I'd say the MCU's earned it at this point. Cross posting my thoughts from the BSS movie thread: I don't really mind the inconsistencies in the time travel mechanics much. Making a movie like Endgame entertaining and dramatic is priority as the finale of the Infinity Saga, and it achieves that with like the highest levels of fanservice. It's more the contrast of characterization against what's been built up over films prior for Cap and Stark that I find annoying and frustrating in the end. But otherwise, it's the best Avengers movie, though I wouldn't call it the best MCU movie for me. But yeah, it's a solid finale. [edit] Furthering my thoughts, specifically regarding Captain Marvel: I feel like they dropped the ball hard with her. Her scrap with Thanos at the end was good and her obliterating his flagship was cool. It shows she's on par with Thanos in power level. But a big issue I have with that is Carol not using the gauntlet herself. I totally get that having Stark dying feeds into this meta-narrative of "the MCU's Infinity Saga started with him and it should end with him" but I've already expressed how much I'm against Stark being the one to snap since the act of self-annhilation is a huge regression on his character growth throughout the films. Carol held the gauntlet, uncontested for a good long while, but the plot demanded she get the stones back to the quantum tunnel. She alone could have dusted Thanos and his armies; the film never suggests she couldn't wield the gauntlet, but her fight with Thanos implies that she could. It'd be the happy ending though, and I understand why it wasn't that. The Russo's subvert that expectation in dramatic fashion, but at the expense of logic. Bacon Terrorist posted:My only real issue with it, minor as it is if Thor took Mjolnir from the past back with him then does that not mean Thor in that time is without it? We saw Cap keep it after all. Now that I've seen the film, Cap took the hammer back with him to Asgard to put back, just like the stones. teagone fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 18:30
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It's probably best not to sweat the logic of a movie about infinitely powerful wishing stones combined with time travel.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:30
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Necrothatcher posted:It's probably best not to sweat the logic of a movie about infinitely powerful wishing stones combined with time travel. I think it's fine to critique the logic of characterization though.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:31
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Necrothatcher posted:It's probably best not to sweat the logic of a movie about infinitely powerful wishing stones combined with time travel. Why not? It's super funny - and it's not like it's difficult to do. teagone posted:I think it's fine to critique the logic of characterization though. And the time travel stuff is the characterization. Like, as mastershakeman points out, there's a very good chance that Dr. Strange lied in order to murder Stark. That seems like a pretty important bit of characterization.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:And the time travel stuff is the characterization. Like, as mastershakeman points out, there's a very good chance that Dr. Strange lied in order to murder Stark. That seems like a pretty important bit of characterization. That's actually pretty funny, and does make sense lol.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:36
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teagone posted:I think it's fine to critique the logic of characterization though. A hugely powerful character introduced one film ago using the gauntlet to save the day without much consequence is terrible characterisation though.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:36
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Necrothatcher posted:A hugely powerful character introduced one film ago using the gauntlet to save the day without much consequence is terrible characterisation though. Right, that logic exists and that's why I say it's fine to criticize it. [edit] The film sacrifices logical decision for crowd pleasing moments, and it works as such. But that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed by it. teagone fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 18:38
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Prioritising logic over emotions in storytelling feels kinda dumb to me but whatever works for you I guess.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:44
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Necrothatcher posted:Prioritising logic over emotions in storytelling feels kinda dumb to me but whatever works for you I guess. I don't. I eat up fanservice and love that poo poo. I'm just saying there's room to criticize lapses in good writing at the expense of fanservice. I totally understand making that kind of judgement when it comes to making a movie entertaining and as crowd pleasing as possible. It's fine to make a movie or show or whatever that way, but it's not immune to criticism just because it hit you with the feels.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nope! The quantum machine can't change "the natural laws", but the green gem can. That's what the whole Dr. Strange movie was about. yeah but how powerful is that stone in Strange's movie? I honestly don't remember.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:47
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Necrothatcher posted:Prioritising logic over emotions in storytelling feels kinda dumb to me but whatever works for you I guess. Things people regurgitate from YouTube for five hundred please, Alex.
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Apr 25, 2019 18:52
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Necrothatcher posted:A hugely powerful character introduced one film ago using the gauntlet to save the day without much consequence is terrible characterisation though. That's not bad characterization. That's not characterization at all. (And isn't Danvers' "thing" being totally no-nonsense, getting to the point regardless of whether it's polite, not putting up with macho hero poo poo?) DC Murderverse posted:yeah but how powerful is that stone in Strange's movie? I honestly don't remember. Well, in the previous Avengers film, it let him create a time loop that goes on for roughly 80 million years. 14 million resets. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 18:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well, in the previous Avengers film, it let him create a time loop that goes on for roughly 80 million years. 14 million resets. does he actually *live* all of those or does he just *see* them? I was under the impression that he just was able to view them
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Apr 25, 2019 18:58
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DC Murderverse posted:does he actually *live* all of those or does he just *see* them? I was under the impression that he just was able to view them Presumably the former; in his own movie he creates a time loop that's theoretically infinite.
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Apr 25, 2019 19:03
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Daddy Thanos posted:I doubt that's true but if Thanos actually does die permanently I'll never post again after the movie's release Was this ever a  ? Because I hope it was.
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Apr 25, 2019 19:06
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1. How is the logic in this film worse than in Infinity War? 2. Who's dead and who's been revived?
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Apr 25, 2019 19:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Presumably the former; in his own movie he creates a time loop that's theoretically infinite. that's true!
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Apr 25, 2019 19:19
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Grouchio posted:1. How is the logic in this film worse than in Infinity War? 1. Not really that much worse logic wise than the previous film if you really think about it. 2. Iron Man = Dead Black Widow = Dead Captain America = Went back in time and lived his life, now old. Gave shield and moniker to Falcon. Everyone who got dusted = Alive Gamora = Alive, but from a time before she fell in love with Starlord Vision = Still dead Loki = Maybe back alive because of a fail via time travel Thanos, Black Order, & entire army = dusted
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Apr 25, 2019 19:20
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Grouchio posted:2. Who's dead and who's been revived? Everyone who was snapped is revived. Black Widow and Iron Man die in this one. Captain America is an old man at the end. Heimdall and Vision remain dead. There's a Loki somewhere out there. Gamora from a different timeline is back.
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Apr 25, 2019 19:21
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PaybackJack posted:
Do remember though, those aren't the past versions of Loki or Gamora from the main MCU timeline (MCU-A). They are from an alternate universe (MCU-B); a "branch" split off from the main timeline.
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Apr 25, 2019 19:23
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Strange, I thought that (based on leaks I read) that Captain Marvel got axed (then revived later), that Thor revived Loki and gave him the ok to rule Asgard, that Rocket now leads the Guardians and that Black Widow leads the Avengers. Guess not. Is Professor Hulk still a thing? Also does this mean that Thor leads the Guardians!?
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Apr 25, 2019 19:24
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So hypothetically, with the way that time travel works in this movie, does it mean that there's like, an infinite amount of alternate realities? Is it like Spiderverse? There's now potentially a Loki running around somewhere, but hypothetically couldn't anyone with access to the time stone also dimension jump? I feel like there's a lot of potential with the time travel stuff
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Apr 25, 2019 19:26
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Grouchio posted:Strange, I thought that (based on leaks I read) that Captain Marvel got axed (then revived later), that Thor revived Loki and gave him the ok to rule Asgard, that Rocket now leads the Guardians and that Black Widow leads the Avengers. Guess not. Is Professor Hulk still a thing? Also does this mean that Thor leads the Guardians!? all of this is lies
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Apr 25, 2019 19:26
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