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I still have money on "dying to own
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Apr 25, 2019 20:37
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pseudorandom name posted:Not getting cut is a necessary component of Cutting Your Opponent Down. She could not have been any clearer that 'not getting cut' is called 'cutting first'
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Apr 25, 2019 20:46
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Meti Cuts in line.
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Apr 25, 2019 20:49
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:That's what I'm saying; if Meti really wanted to have a chat with Allison she woulda just walked right through the pursuers and demiurges like they weren't even there; the core of her teaching is that a master in the act of pursuing their magical kung-fu tao cannot be stopped by any force save a more focused will. Clearly Maya's intention isn't just to "have a chat" with Allison, then. She's protecting her from afar without interfering and we're not quite sure why yet. A Wizard of Goatse posted:Maya gets distracted from her purpose and tied up in one-on-one duels with randos. She beats them, because she's good, but she isn't able to fully commit because she still retains the self (which probably makes her a much healthier person all-round, but a poor disciple of Meti), and in all the fuss she totally loses track of the reason she's there swinging a sword at people in the first place. This is a weird interpretation. She's battling not because she's being distracted but because she intends to battle. Take her battle with Juggernaut Star - Maya pointedly watches Allison leave, makes sure she's clear, then turns and attacks. Clearly she wanted to defend Allison but not directly interact with her (besides confuse her with weird proverbs). Again, her exact goals are still opaque (well, murdering the gods of course, but how is still up in the air), but I don't see what you're seeing. Dead Reckoning posted:Consider that perhaps Meti did not desire to live. Could be! We don't know yet.
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Apr 25, 2019 20:56
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Rotten Red Rod posted:This is a weird interpretation. She's battling not because she's being distracted but because she intends to battle. Take her battle with Juggernaut Star - Maya pointedly watches Allison leave, makes sure she's clear, then turns and attacks. Clearly she wanted to defend Allison but not directly interact with her (besides confuse her with weird proverbs). I always parsed this as her having to decide between catching up with Allison and letting Jughead slaughter all the pursuers, to her annoyance.
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Apr 25, 2019 21:18
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Rhaka posted:I always parsed this as her having to decide between catching up with Allison and letting Jughead slaughter all the pursuers, to her annoyance. Well we parsed it very differently. The pursuers and Maya are (in my opinion) after very different things - the pursuers are hungry for the power and/or wealth the key will bring, and Maya seems to just want to be near Allison and make sure she doesn't die, but not capture (or even join) her (yet). Where I think (and where I'm hoping) it will go, based on Jadis' prophecy, is Maya will eventually join Allison's group, possibly to train her, and the pursuers will eventually as well, as the beginnings of an army. This is partially based on the fact that Jadis refers to the pursuers as "108 burning stars", clearly a reference to Suikoden (either/both the RPG series and the Chinese text it's based on) where 108 heroes are gathered and eventually work together for justice. It's also based on the fact the pursuers are rad as hell and I want them to team up with Allison. Edit: \/\/ Yeah, same. \/\/ Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 21:39
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Yeah I've always got that impression that just because Maya is with the Pursuers doesn't mean she's part of the Pursuers. She's just following this "parade of fools" because they're seeking Allison, and being in the middle of the action means she can use them to help track Allison AND be where she can have the most effect. Note how, in Mottom's palace, she approached Allison long before the others did--alone. Maya was there, talking with this girl, taking her measure...then Hrotomos flexed through a wall and poo poo got rowdy.
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Apr 25, 2019 21:49
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Oh, she's absolutely not an actual Pursuer, the Pursuers are just useful-ish bloodhounds and she decided to not let them all get butchered because of an angel tantrum. I don't think she's got some "let me hang out in her general direction" thing going on, she's actively trying to approach her for whatever her own reasons are.
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Apr 25, 2019 23:06
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pseudorandom name posted:Not getting cut is a necessary component of Cutting Your Opponent Down. More the fool are you, as any true practitioner of Sword Law knows that to care about another's applied cut while Cutting is a sign of absolute weakness.
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Apr 25, 2019 23:21
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YaketySass posted:Meti Cuts in line. I wish she could get into smash bros just so that could be her tag line. But then parents would have to question why there is a naked women with a sword cleaving Mario in half.
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Apr 25, 2019 23:23
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Well we parsed it very differently. The pursuers and Maya are (in my opinion) after very different things - the pursuers are hungry for the power and/or wealth the key will bring, and Maya seems to just want to be near Allison and make sure she doesn't die, but not capture (or even join) her (yet). 108 most likely isn't a direct reference to Suidoken. The number 108 is sacred in Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and other faiths widespread across the Indian subcontinent. It's also a symbolic number in many martial arts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number) 108 is used in a lot of marital arts media, wuxia stories, and Eastern parables the way the number 3 is used in the West. E- to expand on this the 108 warriors in Suidoken are an explicit reference to the 108 Outlaws of the Water Margin. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 23:29
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Curious if there's been some deep dives already, but: the art and a lot of the fundamental metaphysics feel deeply Buddhist and Hindu, but the character names are often quite explicitly Judeo-Christian and so is the general structure of an angelic hierarchy (I think, I'm not as familiar with Christianity). Does anybody have an idea about the intentionality of this mixing, or if it means anything at all?
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Apr 26, 2019 01:27
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Tulip posted:Curious if there's been some deep dives already, but: the art and a lot of the fundamental metaphysics feel deeply Buddhist and Hindu, but the character names are often quite explicitly Judeo-Christian and so is the general structure of an angelic hierarchy (I think, I'm not as familiar with Christianity). Does anybody have an idea about the intentionality of this mixing, or if it means anything at all? He's definitely pulling from a lot of things. The aesthetics have moved around a bit too. I want to say it's a fairly generic mishmash of concepts in the flavor of "all of the religions have some truth as a reflection of the divine poo poo that's going on." I don't actually get a lot of Buddhist metaphysics out of it, there's a lot of Hinduism tho. The Buddhist influences are largely in some of the philosophical stuff and iconography. There's a great scene where Allison is in her head and there are all the other Allisons there, jealousy, pride, etc., and they correspond to the Five Buddha Families like they do in tantra, where the goal is to transform the five destructive emotions into the five wisdoms as represented by the Five Tathagatas. That was the most impressive deep cut on a religion I noticed, but I don't know if it was intentional or if it was just from following iconography.
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Apr 26, 2019 02:58
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The most direct influence on K6BD is the Elder Scrolls: Morrowind weirdness written by Michael Kirkbride, which is where 'Royalty' comes from. Kirkbride was clearly synthesizing Hindu and Buddhist theology and iconography, and that's also where a lot of K6BD style comes from. Abaddon added in the Abrahamic angelology. The main thing is a kind of advaita vedanta, in which Yisun/God is a nondual absolute reality, and all things emanate from that one thing (through, in this case, YS and UN, then the 777,777 gods). I would argue the primary Buddhist metaphysical angle in the setting is that, ultimately, the setting does actually follow the Four Noble Truths, sort of. Suffering is the transitory nature of things, desire (WANT) is the origin of that suffering, and the way to not suffer is to be detached and recognize the world as transitory and an illusion. The twist, of course, is that the setting is more Nietzschean than Buddhist (The Zoss equivalent in the original forum game being literally Friedrich Nietzsche). Want leads to suffering, but to live and suffer and desire is more pleasing to Yisun than a pure detached consciousness. This is the truth of the Very Wise Frog: Violence is inescapable, suffering and transience are going to happen. That doesn't mean pursuing some kind of purpose isn't actually a good idea, it just means it will involve suffering and violence.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:36
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Ok I don't want to go into details but the Patreon preview page just went up and oh man THIS ARC IS ABOUT TO GET loving AWESOME OH MY GOD
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Apr 26, 2019 03:43
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Ok I don't want to go into details but the Patreon preview page just went up and oh man THIS ARC IS ABOUT TO GET loving AWESOME OH MY GOD Yeah, I really enjoy getting hype about the pages thanks to the Patreon previews. 100% worth signing up to Patreon for.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:45
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There's been a lot of posts I skimmed, is anyone suggesting Maya maybe following Allison not to protect her or take the key, but to be ready to Cut her down depending on how this rising demiurge takes to power?
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Apr 26, 2019 04:47
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No one's outright said it as far as I remember, but that is a distinct possibility. I'm mostly saying she seems to be protecting Allison for now, but we don't know the exact circumstances of her reasons why (I assume to assist her in murdering the gods). I wouldn't be surprised if she's prepared to make that decision.
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Apr 26, 2019 04:57
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Oxxidation posted:
Or block Incubus and go "c'mon, dude?!" It probably wouldn't work but it's worth trying and framing it out of possibility in this debate has been really conspicuous.
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Apr 26, 2019 05:05
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Joe Slowboat posted:The most direct influence on K6BD is the Elder Scrolls: Morrowind weirdness written by Michael Kirkbride, which is where 'Royalty' comes from. Kirkbride was clearly synthesizing Hindu and Buddhist theology and iconography, and that's also where a lot of K6BD style comes from. Abaddon added in the Abrahamic angelology. There is also a gnostic element, where the creator is well removed from creation, creation is overseen directly by a demiurge that is flawed, the world is corrupt and designed to keep the devine spark from aspiring from ascension and reintegration with the godhead.
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Apr 26, 2019 05:32
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Meti's student is Meti. She kills herself. Incubus gets the blame, but he knows.
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Apr 26, 2019 07:17
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Bilirubin posted:There is also a gnostic element, where the creator is well removed from creation, creation is overseen directly by a demiurge that is flawed, the world is corrupt and designed to keep the devine spark from aspiring from ascension and reintegration with the godhead. Eh, I'm of the opinion that the Gnostic element is pretty incidental; 'demiurge' is being used to mean evil god, not sub-creator, and 'knowledge' is only mystically meaningful in the very specific case of the Names of God, which isn't really the same as gnosis. If anything, having higher knowledge tends to be a problem for people (see: Jadis) rather than the form of liberation. You're not wrong that it's present, but I really think it's only barely present.
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Apr 26, 2019 08:20
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Joe Slowboat posted:Eh, I'm of the opinion that the Gnostic element is pretty incidental; 'demiurge' is being used to mean evil god, not sub-creator, and 'knowledge' is only mystically meaningful in the very specific case of the Names of God, which isn't really the same as gnosis. If anything, having higher knowledge tends to be a problem for people (see: Jadis) rather than the form of liberation. You're not wrong that it's present, but I really think it's only barely present. The Demiurge in this instance is Metatron, I think
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Apr 26, 2019 13:01
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Could be! We don't know yet. 1) Meti was in fact totally full of poo poo. 2) Meti did not wish to die, but Incubus, largely shown as egotistical and grasping, was suffused with a more potent and complete will in desiring her death, and has never expressed it since. 3) Meti did not wish to live. World Famous W posted:There's been a lot of posts I skimmed, is anyone suggesting Maya maybe following Allison not to protect her or take the key, but to be ready to Cut her down depending on how this rising demiurge takes to power? 
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Apr 26, 2019 16:49
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I must apologize for Incubus, he is an idiot. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke.
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Apr 26, 2019 16:54
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"Lmao this is gonna be so fuckin funny" - Robert Oppenheimer, July 16, 1945
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Apr 26, 2019 17:05
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His inclusion among the Seven is just an extensive practical joke and any moment now the bucket of pig's blood will fall on his head.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:05
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Paramemetic posted:He's definitely pulling from a lot of things. The aesthetics have moved around a bit too. I want to say it's a fairly generic mishmash of concepts in the flavor of "all of the religions have some truth as a reflection of the divine poo poo that's going on." I don't actually get a lot of Buddhist metaphysics out of it, there's a lot of Hinduism tho. The Buddhist influences are largely in some of the philosophical stuff and iconography. There's a great scene where Allison is in her head and there are all the other Allisons there, jealousy, pride, etc., and they correspond to the Five Buddha Families like they do in tantra, where the goal is to transform the five destructive emotions into the five wisdoms as represented by the Five Tathagatas. That was the most impressive deep cut on a religion I noticed, but I don't know if it was intentional or if it was just from following iconography. There is a warped parallel between the demiurges and the path to True Royalty and that of bodhisattvas on the path to becoming Buddhas. It looks like most of the demiurges have fallen off that progession after going insane from want, but we've seen that it's still something Solomon David is pursuing. In many traditions, one cannot be recognized as a true bodhisattva unless the person has been named such by a living Buddha, which is also similar to the interactions between Allison and Zoss and the nature of kingship and heirs.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:06
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Dead Reckoning posted:Are we reading the same comic? I'm not sure what you mean by this, because... Dead Reckoning posted:
... This is exactly what I was meant in what you were quoting. I agree with pretty much everything in your post and I don't really see where you seem to think I'm disagreeing with you. If you're referring to me arguing that Maya might (now) be stronger than Meti, I agree that Meti probably was stronger, but the comic just hasn't given us enough information to know 100% for sure yet. That's all I'm saying. (And that we don't yet know how Meti died.) Tetracube posted:I must apologize for Incubus, he is an idiot. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke. Thanks to the KSBD discord: 
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Apr 26, 2019 17:12
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i'm not sure this is a story where 'who is the strongest' has a straightforward answer
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Apr 26, 2019 17:19
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AriadneThread posted:i'm not sure this is a story where 'who is the strongest' has a straightforward answer This is true, which makes it ironic that we're about to head into a Kung Fu tournament arc that has the express purpose of determining who the strongest person is.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:34
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Who has lifted the biggest rock?
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Apr 26, 2019 17:41
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AriadneThread posted:i'm not sure this is a story where 'who is the strongest' has a straightforward answer This is the right take. Also it's 500% in setting for Meti to get murdered by her 'fake' apprentice who more obsessively grasped her ideas and didn't resist them, and they led him to the conclusion of stabbing her to death. I feel like expecting greater enlightenment and theoretical power to guarantee victory in this setting is a fool's errand. Meti's still human, and if she didn't expect Incubus to go for her, he could kill her as easily as anyone else. This is not a setting where having more Gokus than someone means they can't get you. Plus, on a storytelling level, Incubus has to actually be cool enough to hold up his side of the dynamic with Allison, let alone with the other demiurges. If he really just is a pathetic weakling who did not deserve his throne, that would be the narrative agreeing that the demiurges are right and might makes desert. Which is totally opposite the themes of the comic so far, which include 'power is achieved by being strong enough to grasp power and nothing else' - there's no moral weight to being able to win a fight. Incubus killed Meti and all that really matters there is that she's dead, and he's still around to be a cosmic problem.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:41
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YaketySass posted:His inclusion among the Seven is just an extensive practical joke and any moment now the bucket of pig's blood will fall on his head. But getting showered by buckets of blood is already his biggest hobby!
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Apr 26, 2019 17:43
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Bongo Bill posted:Who has lifted the biggest rock? It's Aesma, right?
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Apr 26, 2019 17:48
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Mr. Lobe posted:It's Aesma, right? It's YISUN, so technically yes.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:51
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I honestly feel it's something of a leap to assume Incubus killed Meti through swordplay. Unless I missed something, nobody's said that's how he did it. It's Incubus. If he killed Meti, he did it through some lovely underhanded way.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:30
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ProfessorCirno posted:I honestly feel it's something of a leap to assume Incubus killed Meti through swordplay. Unless I missed something, nobody's said that's how he did it. Probably poisoned her drat noodles!
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Apr 26, 2019 19:34
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It's possible Meti underestimated Incubus just like he believes his fellow demiurges underestimate him. Although she didn't intend him to be her student, he still learned. Meti believed that Sword Law was worthless; what does that mean for someone who was, himself, considered worthless? Someone who learned to survive by unhesitatingly embracing desperate, degenerate actions that more genteel folks consider beneath them? Incubus, being a demiurge, clearly falls short of Royalty. But I don't think that disqualifies him from having had the ability to gently caress Meti up with a sword, literal or otherwise.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:45
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ProfessorCirno posted:I honestly feel it's something of a leap to assume Incubus killed Meti through swordplay. Unless I missed something, nobody's said that's how he did it. He disposed of her body according to her stated wishes. That suggests that if he killed her, he at least tried to do it with courtesy.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:54
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