Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

OneSizeFitsAll: Sep 13, 2010; Du bist mein Sofa

Cynic Jester posted:

Jobs should almost always be easier to get than pops, unless you're aggressively conquering lots of pops without getting buildings to go with them. Once planets start to fill up, that changes. Optimal play involves resettling unemployed pops once that point is reached. It's as unfun as it sounds. And late game, once you have double digit fully built planets shipping pops to newer ones, you eventually hit the point where pops grow faster than jobs, but at that point disabling growth or implementing socialism shouldn't be a problem.

But to be clear, if you can't keep up with population growth on a brand new planet that just hit 10 pop, something isn't right. At that stage, even with Gene Clinics(which are honestly not great and take absurdly long to actually net a surplus over building another structure) and Robot Factories(Real Good�), even with no +build speed increases, generating jobs faster than your population grows should not be a problem.

You and everyone else has said the same thing, so it would be ridiculous of me, one person who has only just finished his first game, to disagree. It just felt like, as soon as I'd built a bunch of new buildings, the red unemployment markers were all down my planets list again. It must be something to do with my playstyle, and maybe my not using sector management and constantly manually fiddling with about 40 planets.

I was doing the resettling thing, and yeah, it was just another element of micromanagement to think about. Someone recommended a mod upthread which automates resettlement, which sounds like a very good idea indeed. Might have a look at that before I play again.

So far I only have Tiny Outliner, which is a night and day improvement when your empire is large.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:02

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# ? May 25, 2024 05:10

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

Yeah I sorta feel like I need to be slamming down more districts than are really needed to avoid people getting all fuckin unemployed, and trying to balance amenities vs stuff I actually want is kind of unpleasant cause I keep forgetting about it.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:12

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

You and everyone else has said the same thing, so it would be ridiculous of me, one person who has only just finished his first game, to disagree. It just felt like, as soon as I'd built a bunch of new buildings, the red unemployment markers were all down my planets list again. It must be something to do with my playstyle, and maybe my not using sector management and constantly manually fiddling with about 40 planets.

I mean, I constantly get red icons next to me planets, which means I go there and build a building, then 10 minutes later I do it again because the red icon is back. But that 1 unemployed pop won't have a significant impact on anything.

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

I was doing the resettling thing, and yeah, it was just another element of micromanagement to think about. Someone recommended a mod upthread which automates resettlement, which sounds like a very good idea indeed. Might have a look at that before I play again.

So far I only have Tiny Outliner, which is a night and day improvement when your empire is large.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=794924166

This is the list I use for single player and friendly multiplayer if you want more inspiration on fun mods.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:13

Staltran: Jan 3, 2013; Fallen Rib

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

You and everyone else has said the same thing, so it would be ridiculous of me, one person who has only just finished his first game, to disagree. It just felt like, as soon as I'd built a bunch of new buildings, the red unemployment markers were all down my planets list again. It must be something to do with my playstyle, and maybe my not using sector management and constantly manually fiddling with about 40 planets.

I was doing the resettling thing, and yeah, it was just another element of micromanagement to think about. Someone recommended a mod upthread which automates resettlement, which sounds like a very good idea indeed. Might have a look at that before I play again.

So far I only have Tiny Outliner, which is a night and day improvement when your empire is large.

Did you have the unemployment markers on all planets? If so something's wrong, even a city is only 480 days to build I think, with any build time bonuses you should easily outpace pop growth. If you mean that you'd build a building on planet A and by the time it finished there were unemployed pops on planets B and C, then that's normal. There's a huge amount of micro when you have a lot of planets and don't use sector ai.

The rising unemployment events being a thing even with Utopian Abundance is pretty dumb honestly. Though at least Social Welfare/Utopian Abundance increase the amount of unemployed pops there must be on the planet for it to fire IIRC.

Also, did you have any ecumenopoleis? Non-residential arcologies take 600 days to build and have 10 jobs, so you can quickly get lots of jobs on ecus. Easy to eat through all of your minerals/consumer goods production though.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:13

BlondRobin: May 29, 2005; Sssh! Be vewy vewy quiet. It's wabbit season.

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

You and everyone else has said the same thing, so it would be ridiculous of me, one person who has only just finished his first game, to disagree. It just felt like, as soon as I'd built a bunch of new buildings, the red unemployment markers were all down my planets list again. It must be something to do with my playstyle, and maybe my not using sector management and constantly manually fiddling with about 40 planets.

I was doing the resettling thing, and yeah, it was just another element of micromanagement to think about. Someone recommended a mod upthread which automates resettlement, which sounds like a very good idea indeed. Might have a look at that before I play again.

So far I only have Tiny Outliner, which is a night and day improvement when your empire is large.

Out of curiosity, when you say you were having constant housing and unemployment problems, do you mean you could not build additional housing and employment for workers, or that you were constantly needing to do so? That the icons cropped up every few minutes even though you just threw down some housing?

Because the former is mind-boggling; just building districts on a size 10 planet should get you to like 25 jobs/housing before a single building past the default administration, which should take until decades into the game to fill up. It would help if you'd post some images of planets you colonized so we could get an idea of what districts and buildings you were putting down and at what ratios.

The latter, though... my friend, that's the intended gameplay experience! The idea that you should constantly be flicking over all your planets every three minutes to solve their babby porblem because help, we are too incompetent to live without our authoritarian god telling us to build a house was what the designers WANTED.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:16

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

You and everyone else has said the same thing, so it would be ridiculous of me, one person who has only just finished his first game, to disagree. It just felt like, as soon as I'd built a bunch of new buildings, the red unemployment markers were all down my planets list again. It must be something to do with my playstyle, and maybe my not using sector management and constantly manually fiddling with about 40 planets.

I was doing the resettling thing, and yeah, it was just another element of micromanagement to think about. Someone recommended a mod upthread which automates resettlement, which sounds like a very good idea indeed. Might have a look at that before I play again.

So far I only have Tiny Outliner, which is a night and day improvement when your empire is large.

With a decent amount of growth, it's entirely possible to be in a situation where

You see unemployment. (meaning one or more pops is jobless)
You build a single building/district. (most buildings give you two jobs, at one of which is eaten up by the unemployed pop. Some buildings only give one!)
Another pop finishes while the building is finishing up. (consuming the other job)
Building is finished (you have no free jobs. If you built a one-job building, you're now back to unemployment)
Shortly after the building is done, another pop appears (and is jobless, taking you back to unemployment)

This is especially likely if you are doing robots as well as bio pops, because they grow separately and not at the same rate. You'll constantly have one or the other finishing up.

So you're NOT growing faster than you can build, but what you're building is already half taken up by the unemployed pops. If you want to be ahead, build TWO things instead of one. Or build something that gives more than two jobs. Most upgraded buildings give +3 jobs. (Example for research labs: You get 2 for base building + 3 for upgraded building for a total of 5. Next level of upgrade takes you to 8 jobs total, another +3)

Or, honestly, don't worry about having one pop unemployed for a bit while things build. It's totally fine. Technically you're missing out on some resources, but it's not enough to cripple you or anything.

Lastly, it's entirely possible to be in a situation where you have enough planets and buildings that your mineral income can't keep up with the need to build things planet-side. My current Warrior Culture game is like this! I have like 50 planets now, but all my alloy production is eating my minerals to the point that I'm only raking in like 200/month. I need between 10-15k worth of minerals per year to keep developing the planets, but only make 2400.

If you're in this situation, use the market to buy minerals. I buy about 10k worth of minerals per year.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:23

OneSizeFitsAll: Sep 13, 2010; Du bist mein Sofa

Wow, I must say this thread is really great. Whenever I've posted a question before someone has always answered it pretty quickly. Here I didn't even ask a question, albeit posted a comment which invited advice, and people are responding in droves. Thank you, helpful goons - you rock.

Cynic Jester posted:

I mean, I constantly get red icons next to me planets, which means I go there and build a building, then 10 minutes later I do it again because the red icon is back. But that 1 unemployed pop won't have a significant impact on anything.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=794924166

This is the list I use for single player and friendly multiplayer if you want more inspiration on fun mods.

Yeah, I experience the same as you describe. Perhaps it's just my perception of it as more of a problem than it really is. It's probably in part irritation at the increasing micromanagement as I go through the game.

Staltran posted:

Did you have the unemployment markers on all planets? If so something's wrong, even a city is only 480 days to build I think, with any build time bonuses you should easily outpace pop growth. If you mean that you'd build a building on planet A and by the time it finished there were unemployed pops on planets B and C, then that's normal. There's a huge amount of micro when you have a lot of planets and don't use sector ai.

The rising unemployment events being a thing even with Utopian Abundance is pretty dumb honestly. Though at least Social Welfare/Utopian Abundance increase the amount of unemployed pops there must be on the planet for it to fire IIRC.

Also, did you have any ecumenopoleis? Non-residential arcologies take 600 days to build and have 10 jobs, so you can quickly get lots of jobs on ecus. Easy to eat through all of your minerals/consumer goods production though.

Pretty much all planets! I don't have the MegaCorp DLC but being able to build ecus sounds really useful so I'll probably grab it before my next playthough.

BlondRobin posted:

Out of curiosity, when you say you were having constant housing and unemployment problems, do you mean you could not build additional housing and employment for workers, or that you were constantly needing to do so? That the icons cropped up every few minutes even though you just threw down some housing?

Because the former is mind-boggling; just building districts on a size 10 planet should get you to like 25 jobs/housing before a single building past the default administration, which should take until decades into the game to fill up. It would help if you'd post some images of planets you colonized so we could get an idea of what districts and buildings you were putting down and at what ratios.

The latter, though... my friend, that's the intended gameplay experience! The idea that you should constantly be flicking over all your planets every three minutes to solve their babby porblem because help, we are too incompetent to live without our authoritarian god telling us to build a house was what the designers WANTED.

Haha. A bit of both actually. In some cases the planets got maxed out, and I would have to replace existing buildings with luxury residences for housing issues and commercial zones for unemployment issues. Beyond that I would have to start resettling. I think part of the problem was that I wasn't comfortable with any unemployment, when as Cynic Jester says, it's OK to have some.

And yeah, the second too. And as above in my reply to Cynic Jester, I think the issues may have just been the amount of micromanagement getting to me (even though I like micromanagement) and accepting that, as you say, it's intended.

ConfusedUs posted:

With a decent amount of growth, it's entirely possible to be in a situation where

You see unemployment. (meaning one or more pops is jobless)
You build a single building/district. (most buildings give you two jobs, at one of which is eaten up by the unemployed pop. Some buildings only give one!)
Another pop finishes while the building is finishing up. (consuming the other job)
Building is finished (you have no free jobs. If you built a one-job building, you're now back to unemployment)
Shortly after the building is done, another pop appears (and is jobless, taking you back to unemployment)

This is especially likely if you are doing robots as well as bio pops, because they grow separately and not at the same rate. You'll constantly have one or the other finishing up.

So you're NOT growing faster than you can build, but what you're building is already half taken up by the unemployed pops. If you want to be ahead, build TWO things instead of one. Or build something that gives more than two jobs. Most upgraded buildings give +3 jobs. (Example for research labs: You get 2 for base building + 3 for upgraded building for a total of 5. Next level of upgrade takes you to 8 jobs total, another +3)

Or, honestly, don't worry about having one pop unemployed for a bit while things build. It's totally fine. Technically you're missing out on some resources, but it's not enough to cripple you or anything.

Lastly, it's entirely possible to be in a situation where you have enough planets and buildings that your mineral income can't keep up with the need to build things planet-side. My current Warrior Culture game is like this! I have like 50 planets now, but all my alloy production is eating my minerals to the point that I'm only raking in like 200/month. I need between 10-15k worth of minerals per year to keep developing the planets, but only make 2400.

If you're in this situation, use the market to buy minerals. I buy about 10k worth of minerals per year.

Your bolded bit is a good point. I was circumspect about queuing builds at first, particularly of buildings, as I saw in a tutorial video that pops will leave worker jobs to fill empty specialist jobs, which can screw your economy if you're not careful about it, but by the end I started queuing buildings more and more for the exact reasons we're discussing. And it did in part lead to a mineral deficit.

Based on everyone's comments it seems like most of this is just me needing to further get used to the systems in the game, the amount of micromanagement (and mitigating this by using sector AI) and learning to be more at ease with a bit of unemployment. Then getting on top of being able to more consistently pre-empt the "rising unemployment" dialogue by resettling, so I don't have to take a crime/consumer goods hit.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:45

Verranicus: Aug 18, 2009; by VideoGames

Why do so many people suggest ignoring admin cap?

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:54

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

Verranicus posted:

Why do so many people suggest ignoring admin cap?

Because, nearly always, expanding is still a net gain in resources over time.

And of the times where it's not, nearly all of them are related to Megacorps which have much harsher penalties and thus need to be a bit more choosy about where they expand. Not a lot; just a bit.

The last tiny sliver is people who obsessively min-max.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 15:59

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Because the stuff you get from ignoring it (more pops, more resources, more opportunities to expand, bigger fleets, strategic depth) are better than the penalties (science and tradition cost penalties).

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:01

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Verranicus posted:

Why do so many people suggest ignoring admin cap?

Early on after the patch people would get real worried about going over the admin cap so they'd cripple themselves due to lack of expansion. Which is like passing up a raise to avoid going up a tax bracket. "Ignore the admin cap" is thread shorthand for "Going over the admin cap is an expected part of gameplay, don't worry about it unless you're doing a couple of gimmick builds. Do pick up the admin cap increasers, they're good, and don't grab lovely 2 energy side systems until not taking them starts causing more problems than taking them will, but don't cripple yourself by giving up good systems trying to stay under it. It's a snowball mitigater with a grace period, not a ceiling."

Which is less catchy.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:05

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

Verranicus posted:

Why do so many people suggest ignoring admin cap?

Basically, Admin cap isn't there to stop you from expanding. It's there to try to level the playing field by making it so an empire with twice as many systems isn't twice as powerful, but only, say, 40-50% more powerful. This helps avoid the 4x trap of empire power being basically determined by how much free space/compatible planets you have to expand into before hitting rivals.

Before the latest patch there was still an expansion penalty, and it was applied to every system and planet you owned. The Admin cap just takes that and gives you a "buffer" of so much expansion before the penalty even starts kicking in, but you still want to expand past it.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:22

binge crotching: Apr 2, 2010

ConfusedUs posted:

Lastly, it's entirely possible to be in a situation where you have enough planets and buildings that your mineral income can't keep up with the need to build things planet-side. My current Warrior Culture game is like this! I have like 50 planets now, but all my alloy production is eating my minerals to the point that I'm only raking in like 200/month. I need between 10-15k worth of minerals per year to keep developing the planets, but only make 2400.

If you're in this situation, use the market to buy minerals. I buy about 10k worth of minerals per year.

I'm kind of surprised, since minerals are usually what I have the absolute most of. It usually doesn't take more than a decade or two to be in the +500 range, and then after another decade or two I'll be at +1500 minerals. Spaceborne minerals are just so common now, and I do tend to have a bunch of mineral districts as well.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:24

Staltran: Jan 3, 2013; Fallen Rib

OneSizeFitsAll posted:

Your bolded bit is a good point. I was circumspect about queuing builds at first, particularly of buildings, as I saw in a tutorial video that pops will leave worker jobs to fill empty specialist jobs, which can screw your economy if you're not careful about it, but by the end I started queuing buildings more and more for the exact reasons we're discussing. And it did in part lead to a mineral deficit.

Based on everyone's comments it seems like most of this is just me needing to further get used to the systems in the game, the amount of micromanagement (and mitigating this by using sector AI) and learning to be more at ease with a bit of unemployment. Then getting on top of being able to more consistently pre-empt the "rising unemployment" dialogue by resettling, so I don't have to take a crime/consumer goods hit.

Workers promoting to specialists is more of an early game concern, if your average planet has 50 pops building e.g. two labs on each planet and promoting 4 workers to specialists is much less significant than in the early game when you have <20 pops per planet.

binge crotching posted:

I'm kind of surprised, since minerals are usually what I have the absolute most of. It usually doesn't take more than a decade or two to be in the +500 range, and then after another decade or two I'll be at +1500 minerals. Spaceborne minerals are just so common now, and I do tend to have a bunch of mineral districts as well.

It's more of a problem in the late game, when the spaceborne minerals are a much smaller part of your income and you run out of mining deposits on your planets. Aside from the clerk buildings and hydroponic farms, buildings give jobs that consume either minerals or consumer goods, and consumer goods are made with minerals (the trade policy almost certainly won't be enough late game). Plus if you're not a gestalt your ecus can consume thousands of minerals per month.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:37

Noir89: Oct 9, 2012; I made a dumdum

If you play a good nation in an rear end in a top hat galaxy then yes living space and jobs are real issues due to the giant hordes of refugees arriving. It does turbocharge your economy though!

And it feels great when another batch arrives and you relocate them to a safe haven on your ringworld or a habitat, don't worry little guys you are safe here :3:

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:47

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

Noir89 posted:

If you play a good nation in an rear end in a top hat galaxy then yes living space and jobs are real issues due to the giant hordes of refugees arriving. It does turbocharge your economy though!

And it feels great when another batch arrives and you relocate them to a safe haven on your ringworld or a habitat, don't worry little guys you are safe here

I'm playing as an enlighted monarchy and everyone around me is a giant hug box of democracies and aligned megacorps. Once I'm done making a vassal of the nearby theocrats I'm gonna have to become the bad guy, cause the gently caress else am I gonna do with this navy?

Kinda wanna start on the peaceful isolationists I share a border with, they the only group that's kept up with me in fleet power since I finally got a consistent source of motes and boosted my forge world to absurd heights but if I beat them it'll signal me snowballing into glory so idk

# ? Apr 25, 2019 16:52

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

binge crotching posted:

I'm kind of surprised, since minerals are usually what I have the absolute most of. It usually doesn't take more than a decade or two to be in the +500 range, and then after another decade or two I'll be at +1500 minerals. Spaceborne minerals are just so common now, and I do tend to have a bunch of mineral districts as well.

Oh I'd easily have that many if I weren't using them on other stuff. Every time I get up to +500 I go on a spending spree that consumes them.

I'm raking in 1000+ alloys a month, from my ecu and forge worlds. I'm also using a shitload of consumer goods to fuel my research facilities. On top of that I produce a shitload of rare gases to fuel my advanced research facilities and my upgraded holo-theaters...which also consume alloys for those sweet, sweet duelist jobs.

Warrior Culture is REALLY mineral-intensive. All of that poo poo needs minerals at some point.

I solved my energy problems by settling a segment of Sanctuary (it was full of space elves) and building nothing but energy districts.

Well, technically I enlightened the elves from their machine age primitive state, which made them a vassal. Then I released them to be independent, then I attacked them and took them over. "Welcome to space. Lesson one: everyone is terrible. We shall now demonstrate this lesson. Attend closely."

Anyway now we're friends.

Fanatic Militarist/Xenophile Warrior Culture is a ton of fun to play. You get to engage with every system. You're good at diplomacy and fighting. Early game you'll get most of your tech from salvage and research agreements, but once your alloy production is high enough you can start making tech worlds. You can form or join federations or defense pacts, although you shouldn't do this much because you want to Always Be At War.

War for anything. No gain is too small. War for planets, for chokepoints, for pretty borders. War because that star has an amusing name. Whatever.

Then, when the war is over, pay off the losers with your excess resources until they like you again.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 17:03

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Zurai posted:

My understanding -- and observation from gameplay -- is that this is completely false. Combat computer ranges are just where the ship stops trying to close the distance. This is why you end up with your carriers in knife fighting range regardless of the combat computer you give them, because every AI fleet includes a billion corvettes on Swarm.

Wouldn't that make it even more useless to use that mod to set up even more granular ranges? :v:

# ? Apr 25, 2019 17:09

Black Pants: Jan 16, 2008; Such comfortable, magical pants!; Lipstick Apathy

God this is a weird game.

I finally got my final two Irassian precursor artifacts.. by scanning Fen Habbanis which had spawned somewhere over the other side of the galaxy for some reason. So Irass spawned. Along the rim of the galaxy, 12 jumps away from my closest owned system. In an empire with closed borders to me.

Edit: this happened at 2330.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 17:17

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

How close was Irass to the last Irassian anomaly you completed?

# ? Apr 25, 2019 17:27

Nosfereefer: Jun 15, 2011; IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM

Sector AI is basically like running laissez faire in Vicky. It'll cripple or destroy your economy in the early game, and potentially later as well. But if you're already, say, Russia, the pure human misery of microing your industry makes it a no-brainer.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 18:23

Zurai: Feb 13, 2012; Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

Libluini posted:

Wouldn't that make it even more useless to use that mod to set up even more granular ranges?

Yes. Which is why I don't use them any more.

As best I can tell, either ships do not try to maintain their target distance, or they do it so poorly that Paradox might as well cut the code and save some CPU cycles.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 18:42

Black Pants: Jan 16, 2008; Such comfortable, magical pants!; Lipstick Apathy

PittTheElder posted:

How close was Irass to the last Irassian anomaly you completed?

Ah, anomaly. Yeah I see now, I bet it's near the last anomaly I completed because the last anomaly I got was around 2220 before that section of galaxy was colonised. Which itself was around 20 jumps from my starting system. I forgot about it because I only got 2 anomalies for precursor artifacts and have taken this long to get them from other sources. Like I said, weird game.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 19:42

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Zurai posted:

Yes. Which is why I don't use them any more.

As best I can tell, either ships do not try to maintain their target distance, or they do it so poorly that Paradox might as well cut the code and save some CPU cycles.

I'm using a simple bucket system: Battleships rumble forwards until they hit artillery range, cruisers are line ships and corvettes do whatever they want, I don't care. Destroyers are pure support ships and mixed in with line and artillery ranges, because Picket range can go gently caress itself.

For some reason, this always works great. It probably also helps that I prefer direct-fire weapons, but always bring a couple missiles and strike craft, too. The AI seems to overcompensate with tons of PD-designs if you do this, slowly crippling itself the longer a war goes on.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 20:07

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Black Pants posted:

Ah, anomaly. Yeah I see now, I bet it's near the last anomaly I completed because the last anomaly I got was around 2220 before that section of galaxy was colonised. Which itself was around 20 jumps from my starting system. I forgot about it because I only got 2 anomalies for precursor artifacts and have taken this long to get them from other sources. Like I said, weird game.

Yeah I realized a couple months ago that it was spawning the systems in proximity to the last completed anomoly, which makes as much sense as anything. Which actually makes controlling where it spawns pretty easy, since you can just sit on an anomaly until you only need one more.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 21:38

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

PittTheElder posted:

Yeah I realized a couple months ago that it was spawning the systems in proximity to the last completed anomoly, which makes as much sense as anything. Which actually makes controlling where it spawns pretty easy, since you can just sit on an anomaly until you only need one more.

I really don't see this, myself.

I've save-scummed a LOT of precursor world spawns, and they've often been nowhere near each other.

# ? Apr 25, 2019 21:44

binge crotching: Apr 2, 2010

PittTheElder posted:

Yeah I realized a couple months ago that it was spawning the systems in proximity to the last completed anomoly, which makes as much sense as anything. Which actually makes controlling where it spawns pretty easy, since you can just sit on an anomaly until you only need one more.

It's completely random actually:

code:

country_event = {
        id = precursor.98
        hide_window = yes
        
        fire_only_once = yes
        
        is_triggered_only = yes
        
        immediate = {
                set_global_flag = vultaum_system_discovered
                set_country_flag = vultaum_system
                if = {
                        limit = {
                                any_system_within_border = { has_star_flag = precursor_1 }
                        }
                        random_system_within_border = {
                                limit = { has_star_flag = precursor_1 }
                                spawn_system = {
                                        min_distance = 20
                                        max_distance = 50
                                        initializer = "vultaumar_system"
                                }
                        }
                }
                else = {
                        random_system = {
                                limit = { has_star_flag = precursor_1 }
                                spawn_system = {
                                        min_distance = 20
                                        max_distance = 50
                                        initializer = "vultaumar_system"
                                }
                        }
                }
                country_event = { id = precursor.100 days = 2 }
        }
}

# ? Apr 25, 2019 22:19

Staltran: Jan 3, 2013; Fallen Rib

Libluini posted:

I'm using a simple bucket system: Battleships rumble forwards until they hit artillery range, cruisers are line ships and corvettes do whatever they want, I don't care. Destroyers are pure support ships and mixed in with line and artillery ranges, because Picket range can go gently caress itself.

For some reason, this always works great. It probably also helps that I prefer direct-fire weapons, but always bring a couple missiles and strike craft, too. The AI seems to overcompensate with tons of PD-designs if you do this, slowly crippling itself the longer a war goes on.

Why would you use destroyers with artillery computers? What do they do better than battleships? OTOH picket computers give a huge tracking bonus so picket destroyers/cruisers have a clear niche in killing corvettes. I don't think the actual range behaviors really matter in practice, I always give picket computers to everything that can have them tbh. Anything with smaller range will close in pretty quickly anyway.

Also I'm not sure but I think the AI always seems to have a bunch of PD, even if you have no missiles or strike craft at all.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 00:41

JerikTelorian: Jan 19, 2007

What are the thoughts on Ascension Perks? I just unlocked my 4th and I'm trying to decide where to fit it.

My first three were Tech Ascendancy, Imperial Prerogative, and The Flesh is Weak.

I was thinking of going Synthetic Ascension since I just like the idea of turning into robots, but I am missing one the prerequisite tech. I could save my perk for that, or grab something else useful immediately. One Vision jumps out at me since it will increase Unity gain and give me some extra stability and ethics attraction, which should also increase influence. Long term I would like to build a ringworld or something cool like that.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 02:36

Black Pants: Jan 16, 2008; Such comfortable, magical pants!; Lipstick Apathy

Synth ascension is pretty boring imo. Cyborg gives you a bunch of perks, whereas last I bothered taking it, the only benefit of synth ascension (other than being immune to the strange signal, which is unique amongst machine races, not biological ones) was immortal leaders - which you can get by just letting your pre-synth robots be leaders anyway. Also it makes every spiritualist empire (including the FE's) super-hate you rather than just considering you scum. And what's most egregious is that if you use the 'assimilation' default species rights, as I think you're forced to(?), every species in your empire becomes the same robot 'species' as the base one you got.

I'm not sure how it works in the post-2.2 rework, but not having the double-dipping growth of biological pops AND robot pop at the same time sounds awful too. But I'm on my first real game since then and I'm playing materialist without ascension, so I'm not sure how ANY other empire type handles growth yet.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 04:13

Smiling Demon: Jun 16, 2013

Black Pants posted:

Synth ascension is pretty boring imo. Cyborg gives you a bunch of perks, whereas last I bothered taking it, the only benefit of synth ascension (other than being immune to the strange signal, which is unique amongst machine races, not biological ones) was immortal leaders - which you can get by just letting your pre-synth robots be leaders anyway. Also it makes every spiritualist empire (including the FE's) super-hate you rather than just considering you scum. And what's most egregious is that if you use the 'assimilation' default species rights, as I think you're forced to(?), every species in your empire becomes the same robot 'species' as the base one you got.

I'm not sure how it works in the post-2.2 rework, but not having the double-dipping growth of biological pops AND robot pop at the same time sounds awful too. But I'm on my first real game since then and I'm playing materialist without ascension, so I'm not sure how ANY other empire type handles growth yet.

There are problems with synth ascension, but pop growth is definitely not one of them. It is by far the fastest way to grow your own pops. The only way you can do better is by taking pops from someone else.

The real advantage to synth ascension is the +20% all resources bonus, which includes things like alloys. The last +10% comes from the ascension itself so you can't get it by having synths without doing the ascension.

That said, have they fixed the bug that occurs were you can't select your own species as the robot to build after ascension? This bug is annoying enough to avoid the ascension over, or at least find a mod to fix it. It effectively removes the immunity to the ghost signal.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 04:41

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

JerikTelorian posted:

What are the thoughts on Ascension Perks? I just unlocked my 4th and I'm trying to decide where to fit it.

A R C O L O G Y P R O J E C T

# ? Apr 26, 2019 06:18

Autism Sneaks: Nov 21, 2016

Black Pants posted:

Synth ascension is pretty boring imo. Cyborg gives you a bunch of perks, whereas last I bothered taking it, the only benefit of synth ascension (other than being immune to the strange signal, which is unique amongst machine races, not biological ones) was immortal leaders - which you can get by just letting your pre-synth robots be leaders anyway. Also it makes every spiritualist empire (including the FE's) super-hate you rather than just considering you scum. And what's most egregious is that if you use the 'assimilation' default species rights, as I think you're forced to(?), every species in your empire becomes the same robot 'species' as the base one you got.

I'm not sure how it works in the post-2.2 rework, but not having the double-dipping growth of biological pops AND robot pop at the same time sounds awful too. But I'm on my first real game since then and I'm playing materialist without ascension, so I'm not sure how ANY other empire type handles growth yet.

Robot pops can't be leaders, only synths can and only with the Synthetic Personality Matrix tech that's required for the Ascension Perk anyways. Synthetic Ascension is possibly the most powerful build in the game right now: I say possibly only because Machine Intelligences start out with most of the same benefits, especially the ability to ignore habitability that allows them to expand in the early game easier (which is usually the only phase of the game that ends up mattering) while Synths remain gated behind numerous techs that can take forever to appear on top of the prerequisite Perks. In return they get all of the flexibility and bonuses of organic empires while getting to ignore food, have inherent bonuses to production, never die, grow stupid fast, and unlike Gestalts can build Ecumenopoleis (though I wouldn't mind being able to terraforming my Mining Worlds into Machine planets--which you can take from Machine empires without having to re-terraform! Do wish you could build Mega-Warforms too).

# ? Apr 26, 2019 08:08

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Demiurge4 posted:

Yeah the archeology stuff has a lot of potential. It�ll be amazing if you can find a bunch of one-use artefacts that shake up the early game. Like imagine you find an atmosphere generator that�s a one use terraforming device that lets you bypass the climate restoration tech requirement and terraform a terraforming candidate (like mars).

Or you find a deployable habitat you can put up anywhere (or it just unfurls around the site planet). Maybe a rare quest line for a ruined ringworld where your scientist attempts to repair a section or salvage technology with the chance of ruining the section permanently.

I hope this is the kind of thing we end up seeing, yeah.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 09:12

Baron von der Loon: Feb 12, 2009; Awesome!

Can anyone give some tips on how to properly patrol trade routes? For now, I generally have a small fleet of 1-3 corvettes patrolling per branch(one branch often consisting of 2-3 stations), but it still leads to piracy to the point where fleets start spawning and I have to move my main fleet away from protecting the borders from two hostile Empires. Do I have to start splitting them up more so that they cover the same ground more often, or increase the fleets?

I dunno, for me, it kinda feels like I'm doing it wrong, because it feels that I have to do a lot of micromanagement and it leads to a large number of small fleets who are only flying back and forth.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 09:36

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Staltran posted:

Why would you use destroyers with artillery computers? What do they do better than battleships? OTOH picket computers give a huge tracking bonus so picket destroyers/cruisers have a clear niche in killing corvettes. I don't think the actual range behaviors really matter in practice, I always give picket computers to everything that can have them tbh. Anything with smaller range will close in pretty quickly anyway.

Also I'm not sure but I think the AI always seems to have a bunch of PD, even if you have no missiles or strike craft at all.

So they stay with the battleships. In my experience, the tracking bonus of picket ships doesn't bring much in a huge battle since they tend to be the first to die.

The last thing I've never tested myself, since I always have at least a couple missile throwers, so the AI always rocks with huge amounts of PD :v:

# ? Apr 26, 2019 09:42

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Baron von der Loon posted:

Can anyone give some tips on how to properly patrol trade routes? For now, I generally have a small fleet of 1-3 corvettes patrolling per branch(one branch often consisting of 2-3 stations), but it still leads to piracy to the point where fleets start spawning and I have to move my main fleet away from protecting the borders from two hostile Empires. Do I have to start splitting them up more so that they cover the same ground more often, or increase the fleets?

I dunno, for me, it kinda feels like I'm doing it wrong, because it feels that I have to do a lot of micromanagement and it leads to a large number of small fleets who are only flying back and forth.

I have found that the trade system in general introduces a lot of micromanagement. You can cover the route with multiple stacks of hangar bays. When that isn't sufficient, you can supplement hot spots with fleets of corvettes to knock down piracy for a while. Since patrol levels sadly aren't tied to ship stats you can build basic models for dedicated policing. Eventually you'll find that gateways are the only realistic solution.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 09:50

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Does anyone know how the markets return to norm? Does it just tick up/down a fixed amount every month? Similarly does buying 100 minerals affect the price by the same amount throughout the game?

# ? Apr 26, 2019 10:01

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Kaal posted:

I have found that the trade system in general introduces a lot of micromanagement. You can cover the route with multiple stacks of hangar bays. When that isn't sufficient, you can supplement hot spots with fleets of corvettes to knock down piracy for a while. Since patrol levels sadly aren't tied to ship stats you can build basic models for dedicated policing. Eventually you'll find that gateways are the only realistic solution.

Patrolling can be odd sometimes. In my current game I had sometimes pirate fleets showing up right next to my capital, just because my main star port there was primarily a shipyard and fleet nexus with tons of anchorages and zero trade protection. Apparently the game saw nothing wrong with spawning a tiny fleet of victims right next to one of my huge main fleets, with predictable results. (But at least it was a lot less work then keeping dedicated patrol fleets. :v:

)

About a hundred years later I solved this problem by building another fleet base in the system which stopped the pirates from spawning

# ? Apr 26, 2019 10:06

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# ? May 25, 2024 05:10

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

If you go to the "trade routes" screen (select a starbase, and it's a button under the modules), you can hover over the route and the tooltip will tell you how big of a patrol fleet you need to keep things under control.

Note that unlike Trade Protection from starbases with defensive modules, Piracy Suppression from ships does absolutely nothing unless you have more than the maximum amount of piracy. This means issues will all of a sudden appear once your trade value grows beyond what your patrol fleet can handle - and no, you don't get any notification or anything when that starts happening.

The long-term solution is to have a gateway in your capital system, fill it up with trade hubs, and make sure everything you care about is within five jumps of another gateway.

# ? Apr 26, 2019 10:49

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