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Majorian posted:Just in case anyone had any doubts about Venezuela being one piece in a broader right-wing imperialist puzzle in Latin America, btw. For the US, sure. That's indisputable. But for the people of Venezuela, Venezuela is the only piece in the puzzle.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:29
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zapplez posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1123333506346749952 plucky little America must stand up against the Cuban imperialists attempting to colonize Venezuela
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Apr 30, 2019 22:29
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Moridin920 posted:Don't use armored vehicles to run over civilians. Yeah but he was a bus driver so maybe he took one of the APC's out for a spin.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:29
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Chuck Boone posted:For the US, sure. That's indisputable. iunno, there seem to be several of them currently putting a lot of money on Brazil and Chile
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Apr 30, 2019 22:30
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Chuck Boone posted:For the US, sure. That's indisputable. Well, it seems like they've objected to being a piece in Trump's puzzle, which is why Guaido's coup has failed. zapplez posted:Yeah, its actually really weird that in like 99% of threads on SA we are all about supporting poor people, but for some reason the fact the VZ government used to pretend to be socialists is like an invisibility cloak that some posters can't comprehend the government being both socialist and terribly hosed up and making things actively worse for poor people for years. It's almost as if...the poor of Venezuela don't think that Guaido would be better for them... 
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Apr 30, 2019 22:31
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Majorian posted:Ah, an embargo on Cuba - glad to see he's trying something new for a change. There is much to be feared in the grand machinations of incompetent despots who seemingly couldn't manage to displace the maligned government of an almost neighbor. The Venezuelan people must continue to suffer to deny the US it's goals!
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Apr 30, 2019 22:34
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Majorian posted:Well, it seems like they've objected to being a piece in Trump's puzzle, which is why Guaido's coup has failed. I mean it is also possible the people of Venezuela didn't want to get run over by apc's and noped out too.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:37
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https://twitter.com/kylieatwood/status/1123339308780355584 those pesky russians
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Apr 30, 2019 22:40
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Kawasaki Nun posted:There is much to be feared in the grand machinations of incompetent despots who seemingly couldn't manage to displace the maligned government of an almost neighbor. in a shocking development, it turns out you need to offer people more than "man that guy sucks" to get them to get off their asses on your behalf. and it REALLY helps if you, personally, haven't attached yourself at the hip to a guy whose stance on the mass murder of people inclined to seek a voice in their own government is "oooh can we hit up home depot first, I got some new things I want to try out."
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Apr 30, 2019 22:41
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e: wrong thread, my bad
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Apr 30, 2019 22:42
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Kawasaki Nun posted:There is much to be feared in the grand machinations of incompetent despots who seemingly couldn't manage to displace the maligned government of an almost neighbor. The thing is that the people appear to not want the opposition to take over so this rings a bit hollow.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:47
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Moridin920 posted:I'm glad the thread has evolved to side A declaring side B are Nazis only for side B to indignantly declare that side A are the real Nazis.  Rip Juan!'s coup, April 30 - April 30 eta: john bolton seems to agree with the thread consensus https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1123298012145516545 WampaLord fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 30, 2019 |
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Apr 30, 2019 22:48
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Jack2142 posted:I mean it is also possible the people of Venezuela didn't want to get run over by apc's and noped out too. don't worry man, abrahms is gonna kill the poo poo out of those people with sanctions, so they'll get to die for guaido's bullshit regardless!
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Apr 30, 2019 22:51
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Majorian posted:Well, it seems like they've objected to being a piece in Trump's puzzle, which is why Guaido's coup has failed. Nah man, I know you're smarter than this. Maduro's in power because the army wants him in power, despite the wishes of 80%+ of the people of Venezuela. You know this.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:59
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Kawasaki Nun posted:There is much to be feared in the grand machinations of incompetent despots who seemingly couldn't manage to displace the maligned government of an almost neighbor. Why do you assume a US backed right-wing government will be any better than Maduro? Yeah Maduro is poo poo but the US has a history of being laughably evil about this stuff.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:59
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Chuck Boone posted:Nah man, I know you're smarter than this. Maduro's in power because the army wants him in power, despite the wishes of 80%+ of the people of Venezuela. You know this. this seems p suspect to be claiming after guaido's us backed coup fell apart
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Apr 30, 2019 23:04
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Condiv posted:this seems p suspect to be claiming after guaido's us backed coup fell apart Might makes right, Venezuela edition.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:06
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Guaido may be argued to be incidentally better for the future trajectory of the country than if Maduro is allowed to continue in power by means he has already established to maintain control without regard for popular will. This isn't really an endorsement of Guaido, though. It's just commentary on how absolutely dire and horrifically damaging Maduro is as a leader, that Guaido even possibly represents that. In either case, though, Guaido's current capacity to form an internecine crisis is an end product of how thoroughly he's ruined the country. It doesn't have to even be Guaudo, and maybe won't be in as little as a few weeks. Popular uprising from desperation is increasingly inevitable.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:07
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Chuck Boone posted:Nah man, I know you're smarter than this. Maduro's in power because the army wants him in power, despite the wishes of 80%+ of the people of Venezuela. You know this. While I believe the majority of them do want him out, Guaidó does not seems to be attracting that much support edit: any good sources on how big the protests were today?
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Apr 30, 2019 23:08
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Kavros posted:Popular uprising from desperation is increasingly inevitable. It's seemed that way for years, but repression works.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:08
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Chuck Boone posted:Nah man, I know you're smarter than this. chuck, i think you can safely assume there is no Venezuelan, outside of maybe the most insulated failscions of well-bribed generals, who think Maduro is doing a good job at running the country. the man's own children are probably aware a guy who's got everything under control does not have to worry about a whey-faced dipshit plaintively yelling "please coup." the problem here is that you have to present a better alternative, if you want people to fight for you. seriously. what in what Guaido was offering was supposed to inspire Venezuelans to die for him. grant for a moment that every bit of socialist rhetoric from the Maduro government is empty platitudes designed to quiet the populace and bring in useful idiots like yours truly. what did Guaido offer them as an alternative. beyond, of course, "imma get rid of all those loving cuban doctors."
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Apr 30, 2019 23:09
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Wellknown human rigjhs activist Vladmir Putin told maduro to stay. Good thing too because we all know russia is a golden symbol of democracy so their stamp of approval meabs its okay to rundown civilians with Apcs... now if those apcs were crewed by pie eating mericans we might have a problem.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:09
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Ruzihm posted:https://twitter.com/kylieatwood/status/1123339308780355584 Everyone should probably remember that Pompeo isn't some sort of slick career intelligence or foreign policy operator. He's a fundamentalist lunatic elevated from House backbencher to SoS.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:10
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Sinteres posted:Might makes right, Venezuela edition. more like i expect people to have some evidence for their claims, especially in the midst of a very obvious US coup attempt. sorry if that upsets you
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Apr 30, 2019 23:10
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It's ridiculous to throw in random percentage numbers here either for or against any side, of course, but it's also very silly to claim that only one factor, such as stances towards the U.S. for example, supposedly explains what happened (or didn't) today.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:10
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Wellknown human rigjhs activist Vladmir Putin told maduro to stay. Good thing too because we all know russia is a golden symbol of democracy so their stamp of approval meabs its okay to rundown civilians with Apcs... now if those apcs were crewed by pie eating mericans we might have a problem. Bolton is obviously a trustworthy source
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Apr 30, 2019 23:10
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my simple view is Maduro is a horrible corrupt person who should be either peacefully transferred out of power or torn out by the will of the Venezuelan people But also American imperialism is wrong and horrible and we shouldnt invade or burn the country down because "freedom" or trump needs a war and not have dickhead who helped the loving Contras run the policy initiative because it will end badly for everyone at best.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:13
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wielder posted:It's ridiculous to throw in random percentage numbers here either for or against any side, of course, but it's also very silly to claim that only one factor, such as stances towards the U.S. for example, supposedly explains what happened (or didn't) today. the raw facts on the ground appear to be that Guaido was gambling on the people of Venezuela being willing to die in the name of "anyone but Maduro" and he lost that bet real fuckin' hard. why precisely that is? great question! probably worth looking into. on the bright side you can safely assume he'll be around for a while yet, as demonstrated by the guy from the -LAST- time the US tried this who has decided to move from house arrest to embassy arrest.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:14
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wielder posted:It's ridiculous to throw in random percentage numbers here either for or against any side, of course, but it's also very silly to claim that only one factor, such as stances towards the U.S. for example, supposedly explains what happened (or didn't) today. the US has had its fingerprints all over guaido and his party for a long time (well before this coup, and well before guaido declared himself interim president), so I don't think it's too far-fetched that the US, which has collaborated with guaido continuously is backing this coup
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Apr 30, 2019 23:21
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Condiv posted:the US has had its fingerprints all over guaido and his party for a long time (well before this coup, and well before guaido declared himself interim president), so I don't think it's too far-fetched that the US, which has collaborated with guaido continuously is backing this coup I didn't deny that the United States government openly supports Guadio and is clearly involved. I am saying that is not a sufficient explanation for the "why" or "how" of today's events and their outcome.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:27
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Apropos of everything all going on here in the backend... thank you. It's going to be less weirdly ghoulish in here as we discuss what might be an ongoing period of terrible violence.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:28
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Sinteres posted:It's seemed that way for years, but repression works. Competent repression, or repression with a universal quality of life control scheme, works. Repression which is also so thoroughly corrupt and incompetent as to end up in situations where you could put an effective lifespan on the government's capacity to maintain a modern electrical grid... will probably put some hitches in the overall plan. Stability shocks are important to watch in the coming times.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:hello people of the venezuela thread I have seen your reports and probations are in queue greetings to you poor unfortunate souls sitting in the lifeboat of the ss venezuela. as you contemplate and draw straws choosing which one of your fellow castaways to eat to survive your long sojourn let me remind you of one thing: the rules of this thread have been in the OP for 3 months. being a prick to your fellow posters is something that I've been particularly hitting people for when i see it and the number of castaways shoved overboard because of this is simply unacceptable. stop posting like dogshit remember folks 
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Apr 30, 2019 23:54
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Chuck Boone posted:Nah man, I know you're smarter than this. Maduro's in power because the army wants him in power, despite the wishes of 80%+ of the people of Venezuela. You know this. The military's definitely a factor in this, but so is the fact that the current leader of the opposition doesn't seem to generate all that much enthusiasm from the vast majority of Venezuelans.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:57
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Majorian posted:The military's definitely a factor in this, but so is the fact that the current leader of the opposition doesn't seem to generate all that much enthusiasm from the vast majority of Venezuelans. From the few comments about Guaidó I've seen, wasn't he basically a placeholder, with "typical Venezuelan" looks, a "middle class" background, etc.?
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May 1, 2019 00:05
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https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1123341349217099776
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May 1, 2019 00:09
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I wonder how fat Maduro would get if he was exiled in Cuba?
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May 1, 2019 00:11
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Great visual of this donkey coward Maduro ready to skip town for Cuba, and the Russians telling him to stay as they try to save the billions they've poured into Venezuela to take their oil.
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May 1, 2019 00:28
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Private Witt posted:Great visual of this donkey coward Maduro ready to skip town for Cuba, and the Russians telling him to stay as they try to save the billions they've poured into Venezuela to take their oil. while it's definitely an amusing image, Mike Pompeo is not a great source for anything about anything
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May 1, 2019 00:45
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it's such a weirdly obvious face saving lie. *Coup ends within half a day with videos of soldiers going 'uh I had no idea we were doing a revolt my boss just said come here' and guys running to other countries right away* "ACTUALLY our coup was going swimmingly, he was just about to waddle into the plane when the Dastardly Russians led him back into the palace with a trail of delicious empanadas!" Like, I get you don't wanna use the strongman 'the dastardly villain is too powerful and scary it turns out!!!!' thing and give him a 'win' but to go 'Cuba was just about to take him, actually, and that'd be great we love that' and instantly follow it with 'hey Cuba stay the gently caress out of this or you're on double secret probation, we hate you' is dumb even for this crew.
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May 1, 2019 01:05
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