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A human heart posted:listen up bitch: i eat the dog poo poo and i enjoy it, and eating the dog poo poo is actually good to me Some people *gasp* enjoy eating at taco bell?
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Apr 30, 2019 20:20
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Sampatrick posted:Some people *gasp* enjoy eating at taco bell? That’s a good analogy because reading Malazan and eating at Taco Bell will both make you thick
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Apr 30, 2019 20:31
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chernobyl kinsman posted:you know you don’t need to read all thirty books of malazan. you can do other things with your time. you’re going to die and this isn’t how you have to spend your life This is the logic of late capitalism
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Apr 30, 2019 21:16
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"you're wasting your life on mediocre crap, I'm here to save you" *constantly posts on an obscure subforum*
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Apr 30, 2019 21:36
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The Vosgian Beast posted:This is the logic of late capitalism nah most schools of ancient greek philosophy held that engaging in empty pleasures was actively harmful for the soul. there's a reason plato banned poets from the republic
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Apr 30, 2019 22:03
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Malazan is truly the Iliad of our age.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:04
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The Vosgian Beast posted:This is the logic of late capitalism
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Apr 30, 2019 22:06
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i mean they're not the only ones of course i just figured that starting with the foundations of the entire western philosophical tradition might show how dumb that idea was. Marx and his heirs would also tell you not to read Malazan, as he held that art should serve a ideological function and thus must be utilitarian. we could go further with that by discussing how Malazan is escapist, and thus provides an outlet for your dissatisfaction with your own life that could instead be channeled into revolutionary activity, thereby actively serving bourgeois capitalist interests my point here is that your post was very stupid
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Apr 30, 2019 22:08
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Capitalism, a system wherein people are discouraged from consuming endless installments of a franchise. also this yeah lmao
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Apr 30, 2019 22:08
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I'm seriously struggling to figure out what he meant by that. "You can do other things with your time" is the perfect antithesis of capitalist ideology.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:13
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if you interpret my post as "do not engage in leisure activities because that detracts from your time spent generating capital for your masters" then i guess it makes a little sense but that's a) not what i said and b) very stupid in context capitalism is everything i don't like, including people telling me not to read garbage for idiots
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Apr 30, 2019 22:14
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chernobyl kinsman posted:i mean they're not the only ones of course i just figured that starting with the foundations of the entire western philosophical tradition might show how dumb that idea was. Marx and his heirs would also tell you not to read Malazan, as he held that art should serve a ideological function and thus must be utilitarian. we could go further with that by discussing how Malazan is escapist, and thus provides an outlet for your dissatisfaction with your own life that could instead be channeled into revolutionary activity, thereby actively serving bourgeois capitalist interests lol
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Apr 30, 2019 22:55
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Jaxyon posted:"you're wasting your life on mediocre crap, I'm here to save you" There is legit, honestly, something really wrong with people who still choose to post on SA
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Apr 30, 2019 23:03
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I'm seriously struggling to figure out what he meant by that. "You can do other things with your time" is the perfect antithesis of capitalist ideology. The thing is, """real""" leftists are dangerously unstable obsessives (eg Lenin's personal life). To the point of seriously believing that all human activity that doesn't directly contribute to the Party is treason and collaboration. It sounds like a strawmam but jfc if I don't see a D&D hero genuinely argue it every now and again.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:21
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I am beginning to reach a point where irony's interference in actually trying to explore ideas has become depressing
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Apr 30, 2019 23:37
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Strategic Tea posted:The thing is, """real""" leftists are dangerously unstable obsessives (eg Lenin's personal life). To the point of seriously believing that all human activity that doesn't directly contribute to the Party is treason and collaboration. its pretty cool to get your messed up concept of real leftists from the d and d forum on this website
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May 1, 2019 01:21
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There is legit, honestly, something really wrong with people who still choose to post on SA Early internet poisoning.
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May 1, 2019 03:48
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There is legit, honestly, something really wrong with people who [fill in the blank] is always a true statement regardless of the content of the blank so, yeah
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May 1, 2019 03:54
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i shall go underground, and live in a cave
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May 1, 2019 04:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:is always a true statement regardless of the content of the blank Yes, it's called original sin.
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May 1, 2019 10:16
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So is the ultimate evil for this thread Name of the Wind fanfiction or is there something that's even worse for you?
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May 5, 2019 14:12
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All I know is Gene Wolfe wrote some good poo poo
SilkyP fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 02:43
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a valiant if delayed rearguard action
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May 6, 2019 04:00
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If you wanna grab some quotes and defend Gene Wolfe go for it.
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May 6, 2019 04:06
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chernobyl kinsman posted:i mean they're not the only ones of course i just figured that starting with the foundations of the entire western philosophical tradition might show how dumb that idea was. Marx and his heirs would also tell you not to read Malazan, as he held that art should serve a ideological function and thus must be utilitarian. we could go further with that by discussing how Malazan is escapist, and thus provides an outlet for your dissatisfaction with your own life that could instead be channeled into revolutionary activity, thereby actively serving bourgeois capitalist interests Asking as someone who is not super well versed in Marx's writings, what is a contemporary example of art (preferably literature) that satisfy these expectations for what art should be? Does it change when the revolution is accomplished and "channeling energy into revolutionary activity" is redundant?
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May 6, 2019 08:16
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pile of brown posted:Does it change when the revolution is accomplished and "channeling energy into revolutionary activity" is redundant? Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 10:24 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 10:15
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pile of brown posted:Asking as someone who is not super well versed in Marx's writings, what is a contemporary example of art (preferably literature) that satisfy these expectations for what art should be? Does it change when the revolution is accomplished and "channeling energy into revolutionary activity" is redundant? Off the cuff, examples I can think of for art that is utilitarian: 1) propaganda 2) product advertisements 3) graphic design 4) novels written quickly to capitalize on a trend I have no idea why cherno thought he was making a good point by citing Marx here. And while we're on the subject, citing Plato's "poetry is bad" beliefs in defense of good art is a bizarre debate tactic, to say the least. I'm frankly confused why cherno is interested in this thread, considering his posts so far reflects an understanding of literature that's limited to its political value. With a point of view like that, which is in direct opposition to the idea that art is a creative endeavor, I'm surprised he claims to dislike capitalism, since capitalism discourages (artistic) creativity just as much as cherno does.
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May 6, 2019 10:19
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You couldn't have missed any of his points any harder.
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May 6, 2019 10:27
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chernobyl kinsman posted:i mean they're not the only ones of course i just figured that starting with the foundations of the entire western philosophical tradition might show how dumb that idea was. Marx and his heirs would also tell you not to read Malazan, as he held that art should serve a ideological function and thus must be utilitarian. we could go further with that by discussing how Malazan is escapist, and thus provides an outlet for your dissatisfaction with your own life that could instead be channeled into revolutionary activity, thereby actively serving bourgeois capitalist interests i mean, nah
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May 6, 2019 12:11
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to elaborate: marx never said anything about what art should be, he only said that it cannot be conceived of outside of class relations. some people would then say you should therefore ensure your art accurately represents class relations and then you end up with social realism but that's absolutely not a 'art must only serve the betterment of the revolution'. i'm also not sure marx would hold the bizarre view that if you read fantasy you become entirely distracted from the material conditions of your existence, but his writings on Malazan Book of the Fallen are woefully limited
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May 6, 2019 12:30
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What's that famous quote of his that gets passed round about how great going to the theatre and getting drunk with your mates is? Seems a pretty clear defence of "art for enjoyments sake" Also Marx would presumably enjoy Malazans exploration of how capitalism obscures power relations (compared to say feudalism or tribal societies, where its pretty drat clear who has the power) but would dock some
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May 6, 2019 12:57
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pile of brown posted:Asking as someone who is not super well versed in Marx's writings, what is a contemporary example of art (preferably literature) that satisfy these expectations for what art should be? Does it change when the revolution is accomplished and "channeling energy into revolutionary activity" is redundant? soviet realism Mr. Steak posted:I'm frankly confused why cherno is interested in this thread, considering his posts so far reflects an understanding of literature that's limited to its political value. With a point of view like that, which is in direct opposition to the idea that art is a creative endeavor, I'm surprised he claims to dislike capitalism, since capitalism discourages (artistic) creativity just as much as cherno does. you are, and i mean this respectfully, very stupid
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May 6, 2019 20:07
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CestMoi posted:to elaborate: marx never said anything about what art should be, he only said that it cannot be conceived of outside of class relations. some people would then say you should therefore ensure your art accurately represents class relations and then you end up with social realism but that's absolutely not a 'art must only serve the betterment of the revolution'. i'm also not sure marx would hold the bizarre view that if you read fantasy you become entirely distracted from the material conditions of your existence, but his writings on Malazan Book of the Fallen are woefully limited the important thing is that overall i'mr ight
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May 6, 2019 20:25
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chernobyl kinsman posted:you are, and i mean this respectfully, very stupid lmaooo
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May 6, 2019 20:27
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Mr. Steak posted:And while we're on the subject, citing Plato's "poetry is bad" beliefs in defense of good art is a bizarre debate tactic, to say the least. it wasn't "in defense of good art", simpleton, it was to illustrate that my original post is not, in fact, the "logic of late capitalism". how "don't spend your time consuming mass media" is in any way "the logic of late capitalism" is beyond me at any rate. quote:I'm frankly confused why cherno is interested in this thread, considering his posts so far reflects an understanding of literature that's limited to its political value. With a point of view like that, which is in direct opposition to the idea that art is a creative endeavor, I'm surprised he claims to dislike capitalism, since capitalism discourages (artistic) creativity just as much as cherno does. nowhere did i claim to dislike capitalism or even post my own views on the political value of art, dunce
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May 6, 2019 20:32
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I don't think capitalists are the only people to believe that time has intrinsic value.
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May 6, 2019 20:42
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:If you wanna grab some quotes and defend Gene Wolfe go for it. I was hoping someone smarter than myself could, the gene wolfe thread had a page or two of some good back and forth
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May 6, 2019 22:33
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It's weird, people whose literary taste I respect say that Gene Wolfe is extremely good, but any time they post a quote they like it just seems like a mess. Here's an example: https://twitter.com/intellegint/status/1117841386169077765 To my eyes this passage switches wildly from arch irony to Woolf stream of consciousness lyricism to Delillo understatement, which is impressive but not a unified aesthetic that I can really admire.
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May 6, 2019 22:52
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Yeah, I feel kind of the same about Wolfe; people I like and respect dig him, but every quoted passage I see just doesn't click at all. It probably doesn't help that the Book of the New Sun gets recommended constantly and every quote from that book I've ever seen makes me not want to spend hundreds of pages in the narrator's head.
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May 6, 2019 23:05
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BoTNS just feels like such a boring chore to read. Any questions that come up all seem to be about nerdy fandom stuff that requires painful close reading to find answers that don’t mean anything. There’s dense, meaty writing that’s an absolute joy to read bit by bit, over and over, and there’s writing that provokes big, open questions and meditations, but botns doesn’t do either for me. Is Severian a dullard, or a dullard from the future??! Who loving cares
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May 6, 2019 23:27
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