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we_eat_dirt posted:Has foveated rendering been discussing in the thread? Its a little disappointing to see the Index without eye tracking as in theory foveated render would allow much less resource use which may allow games to run at 120hz. In my opinion, Foveated rendering is a bit of a holy grail of VR enthusiasts at the current time. It's seen as a solution to all the big VR problems, and it is, but it's also a very difficult solution to get working well. I wouldn't expect to see it on a consumer headset in the next year or two, possibly longer than that.
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May 2, 2019 04:06
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Who the gently caress wants to go into VR to be themselves
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May 2, 2019 04:07
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homeless snail posted:Foveated rendering doesn't practically exist right now beyond demos, like on the handful of headsets that actually have eye tracking barely any software exists that does it. Even "fixed foveated rendering" where it just blindly renders fewer pixels on the outer perimeter with no regard to where you're looking is barely used despite Valve writing papers and showing reference implementations on that poo poo like 4 years ago. Thanks for this, I forget that I get pulled in by the marketing hype, its like nvidia smp all over again. we_eat_dirt fucked around with this message at 04:20 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 04:17
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homeless snail posted:Who the gently caress wants to go into VR to be themselves Hoo-boy, are the privacy people going to freak on Facebook rendering yourself virtually if it ever gets commercially released. There's a lot of potential privacy and identity breaches possible with that and they pretty much have you wholesale.
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May 2, 2019 04:26
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It isn't even marketing hype, since nobody has working tech. Foveated rendering is just a theoretical, "if we can do this, we'll be able to increase specs on HMDs drastically without requiring GPU performance to unrealistically increase three-fold in two years." Maybe someone will get it working, who knows.
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May 2, 2019 04:30
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we_eat_dirt posted:Thanks for this, I forget that I get pulled in by the marketing hype, its like nvidia smp all over again.
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May 2, 2019 04:43
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Unreal 4 has really forward-thinking design when it comes to foveated rendering and scalable rendering in general. I think it would be ready if there was a hardware solution, but my impression was there is simply no eye-tracking hardware fast or accurate enough.
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May 2, 2019 04:49
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Hellsau posted:It isn't even marketing hype, since nobody has working tech. Foveated rendering is just a theoretical, "if we can do this, we'll be able to increase specs on HMDs drastically without requiring GPU performance to unrealistically increase three-fold in two years." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7OpS7pZ5ok&t=5438s
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May 2, 2019 05:07
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That's not remotely a working version of the tech, though, it's just a prediction of how it might work.
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May 2, 2019 05:25
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Bremen posted:That's not remotely a working version of the tech, though, it's just a prediction of how it might work. Yeah, it wasn't meant to disprove his point. The person who is at the head of research for the company that is probably investing more money into this stuff than anyone else had a prediction about two and a half years ago that it'd be here in 5 years (so about 2.5 years from now), but about 6 months ago updated that prediction to be within 4 years (so about 3.5 years from now). It seems like he can see a clear path to it becoming real, but it's not gonna be here for a while.
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May 2, 2019 05:42
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It's gonna be like Sword Art Online where everyone gets reverted from their chosen avatar into their actual appearance. Also, you're locked into Facebook chat forever, or you'll die.
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May 2, 2019 05:46
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I'm just trying to imagine everyone's grandmas trying Facebook VR and being utterly horrified at how there's so much humping
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May 2, 2019 05:48
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TremorX posted:I'm just trying to imagine everyone's grandmas trying Facebook VR and being utterly horrified at how there's so much humping With that part of the video where the two people are in the same room and playing that soccer game, I immediately thought of the tech being used by camgirls to take their sex shows into VR chats. And now I'm imagining how they will be trolled ala that erotica reading in Second Life where someone did some interpretive dance while spraying jizz everywhere with the family matters theme playing.
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May 2, 2019 05:52
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Lemming posted:Yeah, it wasn't meant to disprove his point. The person who is at the head of research for the company that is probably investing more money into this stuff than anyone else had a prediction about two and a half years ago that it'd be here in 5 years (so about 2.5 years from now), but about 6 months ago updated that prediction to be within 4 years (so about 3.5 years from now). It seems like he can see a clear path to it becoming real, but it's not gonna be here for a while. I don't think its compatible with VRS though, and I think that's gonna get pushed harder, especially when AMD has it also. Two means to the same end anyway
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May 2, 2019 06:05
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Cojawfee posted:And now I'm imagining how they will be trolled ala that erotica reading in Second Life where someone did some interpretive dance while spraying jizz everywhere with the family matters theme playing. gently caress me Second Life was among the most glorious of experiences I've ever had in a "game" because of hilarious poo poo like this. It's all becoming possible again, ~virtually~.
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May 2, 2019 06:36
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Bremen posted:In my opinion, Foveated rendering is a bit of a holy grail of VR enthusiasts at the current time. It's seen as a solution to all the big VR problems, and it is, but it's also a very difficult solution to get working well. I wouldn't expect to see it on a consumer headset in the next year or two, possibly longer than that. Does anyone know if tobiieye or whatever its called actually works then? People keep saying this is insanely hard and Im like but htc and Pimax and that tobii thing and the Half Dome prototype - do none of those really work?
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May 2, 2019 06:39
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Does anyone know if tobiieye or whatever its called actually works then? People keep saying this is insanely hard and Im like but htc and Pimax and that tobii thing and the Half Dome prototype - do none of those really work? None of the steps are impossible, or even particularly hard. The problem is for foveated rendering, you don't just need eye tracking to be "technically working", you need it to work perfectly every single time, with millisecond or less latency, because the human eye moves fast. Then you need to be able to adjust the rendering on the fly, again perfectly and almost no latency. It's an enormous technical challenge, not because any part of it can't be done, but because it needs several different difficult computing tasks all to be refined down to absolute perfection.
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May 2, 2019 06:48
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Pro Eye isn't even out yet so who the gently caress knows maybe it'll be great. tobii has had a standalone eye tracker for awhile and its fine for what it is, but its sold for like UX and psych research where accuracy isn't that important rather than broadly knowing where the subject is looking and for how long. I'd expect one built into a HMD would work a lot better than one that works in a bright room anyway Just all the VR tech people I've seen seem to think reliable enough eye tracking is a near future thing rather than something that's already 100% solved
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May 2, 2019 06:57
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Foveated rendering seems like more like an algorithm and cost issue rather than a strictly hardware issue at this point.
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May 2, 2019 07:04
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KakerMix posted:gently caress me Second Life was among the most glorious of experiences I've ever had in a "game" because of hilarious poo poo like this. It's all becoming possible again, ~virtually~. Those kinds of shenanigans still exist, but now they're in VRChat.
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May 2, 2019 07:34
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5 years sounds about right. Maybe three years if there's a breakthrough or some sort of market pressure that makes foveated rendering necessary and ludicrously profitable. Like, there needs to be a reason for it too - there has to be some VR game with fabulous graphics and a VR headset with ridiculous resolution and refresh rate that requires foveated rendering to function at high settings, or some weird scenario where with foveated rendering on an affordable headset, VR games would run acceptably on integrated graphics. If a midlevel i5 could handle, like, Gorn or Beat Saber without a dedicated GPU that'd be pretty insane for adoption.
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May 2, 2019 07:36
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I just saw this mentioned offhand on reddit. Can lighthouse + vive wands/knuckles be used with wmr headsets? How well does that work?
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May 2, 2019 08:14
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Cojawfee posted:With that part of the video where the two people are in the same room and playing that soccer game, I immediately thought of the tech being used by camgirls to take their sex shows into VR chats. And now I'm imagining how they will be trolled ala that erotica reading in Second Life where someone did some interpretive dance while spraying jizz everywhere with the family matters theme playing. Yes I think to myself what a wonderful woooooorld
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May 2, 2019 08:22
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FuzzySlippers posted:I just saw this mentioned offhand on reddit. Can lighthouse + vive wands/knuckles be used with wmr headsets? How well does that work? Yes. You need openvr space calibrator
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May 2, 2019 09:03
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FuzzySlippers posted:I just saw this mentioned offhand on reddit. Can lighthouse + vive wands/knuckles be used with wmr headsets? How well does that work? Well is subjective. I got it working but it was a crazy pain in the rear end took me about 30 minutes to get it working. I dev on a bunch of HMD so when I switched I would've had to do it again. I forgot to save my config so didn't bother to try it again since I hated the fit on the Odyssey+. It's totally doable but doesn't really make sense for most people since the Vive Wands + lighthouse aren't a huge upgrade over the WMR controllers for most people in most games. I wouldn't suggest it unless you happen to already have all of the equipment laying around. There certainly were a lot of devs doing it in the early days of the Odyssey to get a cheap ghetto Vive Pro. I don't know how many of those kept it up.
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May 2, 2019 10:45
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BTW I bought your baseball game the other day, I've been meaning to leave you a steam review but I keep getting sidetracked. It's not bad though, I had a good time with it. If you want some really nitpicky feedback, it'd be nice if the angle of the glove in the catching mode was adjustable, it feels maybe 90 degrees off from where I'd expect to be catching things with Vive wands. I think that's probably personal preference though. Also the batting box felt like it was dangerously close to my wall and I kept having to move it back, imo if the player adjusts it then you should save the position.
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May 2, 2019 11:36
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rage-saq posted:Pinning windows sucks but it’s going to be a hard, hard loss for me with Dash for desktop usages. SteamVR desktop blows almost bad enough to deter me from Index. Yeah, people who have only had a Vive just don't get what a big deal this is.
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May 2, 2019 12:39
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Give me 3072x3072 dual displays on 130° FOV for my virtual desktop. Using dual-DP or whatever. I wouldn't care, with what not using any actual displays, except one for boot and debugging OS issues. kthx.
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May 2, 2019 13:30
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What is the screen door effect like these days on the Quest and Index? That blurriness is basically what breaks me from ever investing in VR.
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May 2, 2019 14:09
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hey vr thread just letting you know my birthday is this month so bestbuy sent me a 10 percent off discount that i just spent an hour trying to find something to use it with. thankfully instead of being a waste of time i randomly tried it on a rift s preorder and saved 40 bucks. goon luck to anyone else that tries to get this.
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May 2, 2019 14:28
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Broose posted:What is the screen door effect like these days on the Quest and Index? That blurriness is basically what breaks me from ever investing in VR. Its nearly impossible to give you a straight up answer to this since everyone's perception is a little different and its kind of subjective. Obviously the higher resolution the better off it is, and the index and rift S being rgb stripe LCD further reduces the gaps between pixels and increases subpixels. The Quest uses an OLED so you get better black levels, but pentile arrangement like the cv1 rift, and vive/vive pro (quest probably uses the same panels in the vive pro even) so fewer subpixels and more gap between pixels. Heres a comparison through the lens grab of a few different sets  the rift and the vive pro having a pentile arrangement oled, and the go on the right having RGB stripe. Even though the Go has a slightly lower resolution than the vive pro, you can see the reduced SDE, and benefits of more subpixels. So the Rift S, Index are going to look like the Go on the right, and the Quest like the vive pro in the middle essentially. Obviously graphics, resolution, supersampling, subsampling will change graphical fidelity, but regarding screen door effect, that should give you a good idea roughly. EDIT: Actually a huge caveat, that comparison is SIGNIFICANTLY zoomed in so you can see the differences. At standard viewing none of it looks that large, thats more a comparison between different screen types that you've maybe tried to give you an idea of others. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 14:44 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 14:35
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homeless snail posted:BTW I bought your baseball game the other day, I've been meaning to leave you a steam review but I keep getting sidetracked. It's not bad though, I had a good time with it. Thanks for the purchase. I hadn't thought about keeping the player adjustment, that's a good idea. I only added movement right before launch since I realized some people might have play spaces that didn't fit well.
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May 2, 2019 14:36
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Hellsau posted:It isn't even marketing hype, since nobody has working tech. Foveated rendering is just a theoretical, "if we can do this, we'll be able to increase specs on HMDs drastically without requiring GPU performance to unrealistically increase three-fold in two years." Its not exactly the same thing, but Oculus home, especially in the store I've noticed does this thing where the image is rendered in lower resolution in your periphery than in the center of the view.
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May 2, 2019 15:27
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Stick100 posted:Well is subjective. I got it working but it was a crazy pain in the rear end took me about 30 minutes to get it working. I dev on a bunch of HMD so when I switched I would've had to do it again. I forgot to save my config so didn't bother to try it again since I hated the fit on the Odyssey+. With the most recent OpenVRSpaceCalibrator you should only need to run the calibration once and then have it auto start when you launch steam and it applies the offset automatically. I use this all the time and that’s all I have to do.
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May 2, 2019 15:31
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rage-saq posted:With the most recent OpenVRSpaceCalibrator you should only need to run the calibration once and then have it auto start when you launch steam and it applies the offset automatically. I use this all the time and that’s all I have to do. Odyssey+ and Vive Wands + lighthouse 1? I tried Odyssey+ and knuckles + lighthouse 1 and it seemed to work once dialed in but for some reason the fit on the Odyssey+ made it look worse than an Vive/Rift unless it sat in just the most tiny magical of spots, if it moved even 1mm in any direction all of a sudden it looked horrible. Since it had a Halo I couldn't manage to keep it in place. Also be default it was extremely uncomfortable. I don't know if I had a bad headset because I never saw anyone else complain that the HMD was much worse looking on average/use than a Rift/Vive. Glad to hear franken-lighthouse is usable for many people and the setup is much better.
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May 2, 2019 15:54
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Stick100 posted:Odyssey+ and Vive Wands + lighthouse 1? No I’m doing Rift + trackers for beat saber and rift + knuckles for things that are knuckles enabled. The setup process and software is the same.
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May 2, 2019 16:22
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rage-saq posted:No I’m doing Rift + trackers for beat saber and rift + knuckles for things that are knuckles enabled. The setup process and software is the same. Any particular reason to use Rift over Vive+DAS? I personally find the Rift a bit more comfortable but the tracking problems (2 cameras) cause me to favor my Vive+DAS for anything except cockpit sims.
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May 2, 2019 16:53
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Stick100 posted:Any particular reason to use Rift over Vive+DAS? I personally find the Rift a bit more comfortable but the tracking problems (2 cameras) cause me to favor my Vive+DAS for anything except cockpit sims. The Rift has massively better optics, massively better audio, better comfort, better fit, less bulky. There’s not really a reason to use the Vive if you didn’t have to. I hope the Index hits the key points they are aiming for as those are all the areas I’ve stuck with the Rift. I use my touch controllers a lot too, there are just some specific things I do where the specialty nature of these other things come in pretty handy.
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May 2, 2019 17:08
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jubjub64 posted:Yeah, people who have only had a Vive just don't get what a big deal this is. Dash is great, however HelloV does have a redesign coming that should make resizing, pinning, multiple windows, etc all work across all headsets and with even less performance penalty then HelloV currently has. Not ready yet, but it's coming.
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May 2, 2019 18:01
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rage-saq posted:The Rift has massively better optics, massively better audio, better comfort, better fit, less bulky. There’s not really a reason to use the Vive if you didn’t have to. I hope the Index hits the key points they are aiming for as those are all the areas I’ve stuck with the Rift. rift-s apparently almost completely gets rid of god rays, plus the higher pixel fill. other than fitting more securely to your face and the ipd slider it seems like a better headset. At least it's better for a cluttered space when the sensors would be blocked by furniture.
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May 2, 2019 18:22
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