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Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:My goal is to weaken him in to revolts. I got Scotland, Essex, Kent and Somerset to break free with that method 60 years ago. How'd you manage to do that? I assume sending your chancellor over to sabotage relations?
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May 1, 2019 20:27
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The Bold Kobold posted:How'd you manage to do that? I assume sending your chancellor over to sabotage relations? Sabotage relations, kill vassals that support the ruler, try and find vassals who hate the ruler who are high in line for succession on other counties within them realm so you can make that vassal more powerful via assassinations. Basically it's finding people you can murder easily that furthers your goals. Eventually poo poo will snowball and vassals will demand independence, or fight for it.
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May 1, 2019 20:58
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Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:Sabotage relations, kill vassals that support the ruler, try and find vassals who hate the ruler who are high in line for succession on other counties within them realm so you can make that vassal more powerful via assassinations. Basically it's finding people you can murder easily that furthers your goals. Eventually poo poo will snowball and vassals will demand independence, or fight for it. Thanks! I'll definitely keep those in mind while trying to destabilize Songhai and Africa.
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May 1, 2019 21:11
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Coolguye posted:man seduction is absolutely fantastic to use as a player, strategically i'd say it's probably the second most powerful focus in the game (after intrigue). you guys are missing out by not using it. I think that's part of the problem, it's too good. Because I play with it disabled, I don't feel like I have to always take it and can instead take a focus like family and not worry as much that it is non-optimal.
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May 1, 2019 21:24
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Coolguye posted:man seduction is absolutely fantastic to use as a player, strategically i'd say it's probably the second most powerful focus in the game (after intrigue). you guys are missing out by not using it. why would you want tons of kids? Half of them turn out idiots because their teachers were sadistic and/or incompetent pricks, and the other half gets themselves and each other killed trying to gain claims and territory off of each other. Or just for fun. And trying to marry them off for the bounty of alliances gets to be a bit tedious after the second or third generation - I haven't played in a while but I remember the UI wasn't exactly useful in finding fourth or third people in line for titles. Maybe that's been improved?
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May 1, 2019 21:38
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binge crotching posted:I think that's part of the problem, it's too good. Because I play with it disabled, I don't feel like I have to always take it and can instead take a focus like family and not worry as much that it is non-optimal. family is incredibly good too though! it's good in slightly fewer situations, but i would not call it suboptimal at all. leave family on for the first 10 years of a difficult succession (say, for example, your dad was a seducer and landed your 50 half-brothers and half-sisters and now they're all title claimants, oops) and it solves all your biggest problems. you get a big fertility boost so you have a decent number of kids of your own, you get frequent boosts to familial relations (which will include all your title claiming relations), and it counts as working on diplomacy so if your diplomacy is lovely you will get opportunities to raise it. even in a case where the succession is easy, family beats seduction every time if you've stuffed the ruling strata of your realm with your dynasts. every single vassal you have will be targetable by the random pops to induce friendship, end rivalry, and increase opinion. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 21:40
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Family focus when I need kids, War, intrigue, or learning focus when I really want to level up my education trait, One of the green ones when I need that +2 stewardship (which I will inevitably lose to stressed / depressed), Seduction as needed for kids / attraction bonus / intrigue mayhem, Theology when nothing else is going on. I'm not playing this very efficiently...
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May 1, 2019 22:13
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I tend to use Business a lot in the early game, especially if I'm playing as a tribal. Counterfeit cash is pretty helpful.
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May 1, 2019 22:17
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Crow Jane posted:I tend to use Business a lot in the early game, especially if I'm playing as a tribal. Counterfeit cash is pretty helpful. Was about to say this. Doing a Ghana campaign right now and that's the first thing I did. Counterfeit cash got me my kingdom and helped with getting built up enough to take the gold counties at least.
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May 1, 2019 22:18
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double nine posted:why would you want tons of kids? Half of them turn out idiots because their teachers were sadistic and/or incompetent pricks, and the other half gets themselves and each other killed trying to gain claims and territory off of each other. Or just for fun. And trying to marry them off for the bounty of alliances gets to be a bit tedious after the second or third generation - I haven't played in a while but I remember the UI wasn't exactly useful in finding fourth or third people in line for titles. Maybe that's been improved? you want tons of kids for a few reasons. first situation: you want to roll the dice a lot and get a particularly strong/good heir that you can use to go on a mad tear for a generation. in this case you keep loving until you find an heir you want (let's say born with strong and shows good aptitude by age 2-3) and the rest of the kids 'get to play outside', by which i mean you set them to struggle and martial education in the hopes they become good commanders, but beyond that they are not allowed to marry and are never landed. they will die naturally, ending their branches, and nothing changes. second situation: you want lots of randos to stuff the thrones of your domain with to increase your dynasty prestige. in this case everyone gets thrift and either a diplomacy or a stewardship education, you force them to marry a claimless lowborn, and you shuffle them out the instant you have land to give. the marrying for claims and the game of thrones will still happen, but that will happen regardless. at least if all the people dicking each other over are your dynasts, you strategically cannot lose. you can only lose tactically if you mishandle the claims and they overthrow you for the big chair. this is better than losing strategically, which is what will absolutely happen if a non-house rando overthrows you. third situation: you want SHITLOADS of randos to go find claims elsewhere because you have been written into a corner strategically. let's say you need a generation to build a ton of poo poo so your demense levies are enough to handle the supervassals you need to make to keep painting the map. well that isn't helped a lot by other focuses, the closest thing there is Business and that isn't very helpful because it only gives you absolute amounts of gold - 100 here and there is super useful to a duke, not so much to a big king or an emperor. so you raise 50 kids, get them good martial educations to improve their health, and then get them to breed for dynasts that will have useful claims that you can press later. if your dynasty prestige is high enough you can pretty easily override the political concerns that random dukes and petty kings have just because they're getting a piece of your outrageously powerful dynasty. what it boils down to is what i said before: the number of living dynasts you have is the number of bricks used in the tower that is your dynasty's mark on the world, and consequently your score in the game. you will always, always, always be able to do more with 200 dynasts than 20. and you will be able to do more with 20 kids than 2. 100% of the time. so some of them will be useless and go to waste - so what? secondly, so if you are getting that much of a failure rate on your children's educations then you are not using the court tutor well. the court tutor position is extremely powerful and will do a lot for reducing your personal load. what you do is you go into the character finder and find an unmarried, preferably fairly young person who is willing to join your court. what exactly you're looking for depends a little bit on what you want for your generation, but my criteria is typically: - two twelve-skills - these can be any, but preferably are in the skills you're most likely to assign children to (in my case this is always stewardship and martial) - diligent trait - my religion my culture is NOT required because kids rarely change cultures unless they are set to the heritage focus, which you shouldn't be assigning them to. nice to haves include a smart marker (shrewd/quick/genius, though usually this coincides with two twelves) and brave. do NOT be tempted to invite someone who is not of your religion and demand their conversion, there's a 75% chance they will keep practicing their religion in secret and that will absolutely get passed on to their wards. invite this person to your court and set them up as the court tutor. sway them until they are your friend (though if you need to sway someone else, giving them a gift is fine in the short term). they will now automatically do most of the right things for all the kids in your court, even your eventual grandchildren. if you are a hermetic keep an eye on them from time to time and brew them potions if they get stressed. if you see them stressed, there's about a 95% chance they got it by teaching one of your kids to be diligent. you will probably still want to personally educate critical dynasty members (like your heir) but this tutor will, statistically, only have something like a 5% chance of producing a level 1 education kid and something like a 65% chance of producing a level 3 or 4 education kid. who will themselves have a good chance of having at least diligent.
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May 1, 2019 22:20
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pidan posted:Family focus when I need kids, the way i play it is: seduction for lots of bricks to build, family to mortar those bricks together (side benefit of more bricks) learning to get into the hermetics (or, if not required, at some point after 35 for those sweet tech points) intrigue to stabilize the realm hunting for mid life crisis if diligent theology to set old folks' affairs in order/try for sainthood if catholic. i use business early on or if i lose my trading route, but rarely after i hit king level. i almost never use carousing or war.
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May 1, 2019 22:26
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Stewardship is sadly broken to basically just be purely negative. Business is better on pretty much every level if you need the stewardship. I do appreciate carousing as a focus, even if it's a lot of micro. It's the most active one and the lifestyle trait is pretty nice, albeit not as nice as master seductress.
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May 1, 2019 22:33
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Do you get honor duel events instead of battlefield events? It seems that every time I decide to duel an enemy commander and lose, I get the Wounded status and -25 Prestige, instead of getting maimed or dead.
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May 1, 2019 22:39
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Coolguye posted:so a couple of things here. Thank you for this effort post. Ever since they expansion that revamped reduction I haven't really known what I should be doing.
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May 1, 2019 23:24
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Eimi posted:Stewardship is sadly broken to basically just be purely negative. Business is better on pretty much every level if you need the stewardship. I still love Carousing. You do have to remember to keep partying, but if you stick at it eventually everyone is your friend and good luck with your plots/factions then. The chance to get rid of stressed/depressed is situationally nice, and even the negative outcomes are not very bad at all. My dynasties are almost always a story of many keggers.
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May 2, 2019 00:18
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aqu posted:Thank you for this effort post. Ever since they expansion that revamped reduction I haven't really known what I should be doing. the education portion of my post encompasses a lot of fundamentals that i glossed over. you can read about them here but i found them rather hard to absorb. if you'd like i can post more about the fundamentals.
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May 2, 2019 00:31
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I like the idea that the goals of a dynasty or an individual trying to amass prestige for their future legend may often be directly opposed to what is good for a state or the people within the state. Dovetails nicely with the era that follows CK2. Carousing would be better if it wasn't so tedious to go through everyone important to invite. The gamer trait is pretty good too. At least they don't flip the gently caress out at you when they refuse the invitation like with feasts, and it's pretty sweet to have a lot of good important friends. Family is a good focus for if your kids hate each other or hate you. I've been doing hunting a lot to try to catch the stag, but I haven't managed to do that for a long while. At least it gives you something to do. I should probably try War more, but normally I don't like risking my ruler. Gotta do business to squidge out just a liiiittle more in the demesne limit and maybe get fabulously wealthy off a trade deal, maybe even get the builder trait. Rulership is usually too stressful, and I think most of the good events have been patched out somehow or another. Best thing you can get (other than +3 stewardship) is the Just trait. Scholarship can be a cool thing to do, especially if you need a little more learning to get into the Hermetics. Theology is a real nice option for stability and making people like you. I like to take it at least once to go on a pilgrimage. Everybody loves a pilgrim. Also a must for if you want to get rid of possessed or insane. Intrigue is useful for when you want to go about taking down individual vassals, because spying on them can give you a reason to arrest them. Might be a little superfluous now with the antagonize ability. Seduction is what you do when you want more kids and Master Seducer/tress is a nice trait, but it's a fair amount of micromanaging. Theology, family, hunting, seduction and maybe carousing can also get rid of stress.
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May 2, 2019 00:58
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war is really stupid because it's actually best used in the run up to a really decisive war, rather than during it. what it does for you is give you extra martial for more troopers, allows you to upgrade your education (if it's martial), upgrades your commanders, and lets you weaken important enemy figures ahead of a major invasion with duels. that last part is really the crucial one since there are other ways to get more troopers, and commanders can generally be imported from outside the kingdom with no trouble. problem is, you outright cannot duel people if you are at war, even if they are unrelated, so it ends up, confusingly, being a peace time focus. in general i find this humongously unhelpful because i either fight someone or i don't, and if i do i'm going to war knowing i'm winning it. i don't do this extra little bit, odds and ends bullshit. i go build the buildings, acquire the tributaries, acquire the land, hire the mercs. there's an edge case where it's helpful early on in life if you have a really lovely martial leader and you use it to get rid of the absolutely crippling -50% levy penalty for having 0 or near-0 martial. but that's an extremely narrow use case.
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May 2, 2019 03:26
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Please help, I am dumb. Playing as Harald Fairhair. -Created the kingdom of Norway -Reformed the faith with Meritocracy and Equality -Created the empire of Scandinavia -Went feudal I'm now stuck with absolute cognatic elective gavelkind. The tooltip says I have to have reigned for ten years in order to change the inheritance law. I thought I could change this when I reformed/went feudal. What did I do wrong/what can I do in order to designate my own heir?
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May 2, 2019 06:21
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let's be clear: when you say you are 'stuck' with elective gavelkind, do you not have any succession laws to choose from, or do you see them, and you simply can't change them because this requirement of a 10 year reign hasn't been met?
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May 2, 2019 06:34
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Freudian slippers posted:Please help, I am dumb. You have to have reigned the empire of Scandinavia for 10 years before you can change it's succession laws. Coolguye posted:so a couple of things here. I find this kind of playstyle incredibly boring. Sure, you can make every ruler from count upwards of your dynasty, and then go elective monarchy and nothing bad can ever happen to you. It's just super lame, and I haven't played CK2 like this since at least Old Gods came out. It's trivially easy to make nearly every vassal a family member if you're the top liege. Putting as many of your dynasty members on the thrones of this world is fun if you limit yourself to be a duke vassal and just scheme until relatives inherit all manner of titles, but it's lame when you just have to wait until a vassal plots against you, to roll the dice that imprisonment fails and you can revoke poo poo from them to give to a family member. Or have religious revocation allowed and switch to a heresy/different religion to clean house. In fact, I found it much more engaging if I purposefully create about a dozen powerful families in my realm. When I acquire new territory, I just give it out to those families (and my own as well, of course). That creates a huge web of alliances, which makes internal wars truly epic affairs, and increases the chances that somebody can actually depose me if I don't play well enough. Otherwise, it's far too easy to be safe from any internal threat. You're also vastly overselling the advantage of high dynasty prestige. The opinion bonus is capped at +10, and even if you're just a king, you will reach that point after just a few years.
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May 2, 2019 07:13
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One thing that would be necessary (imo) for a potential CKIII would be cadet branches of dynasties.
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May 2, 2019 07:32
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Coolguye posted:the education portion of my post encompasses a lot of fundamentals that i glossed over. you can read about them here but i found them rather hard to absorb. if you'd like i can post more about the fundamentals. I feel like I've read that wiki page 100 times but reading your post was the first time I've been like "ok I get what to do now". What about the patient trait? Also very important in an educator yes/no? SlothfulCobra posted:Intrigue is useful for when you want to go about taking down individual vassals, because spying on them can give you a reason to arrest them. Might be a little superfluous now with the antagonize ability. How is antagonize meant to play out when used on a vassal? I tried it hoping that it would provoke the vassal into rebelling but he just stayed on -100 opinion for ages and didn't do anything about it.
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May 2, 2019 08:01
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high dynasty prestige isn’t just for the prestige points it gives you, it’s for diplomatic overtures. marrying into families is a hundred times easier if your dynasty is the most prestigious on the planet, which helps with everything from claims to bloodline Pokémon. if you want to make internal intrigues harder on yourself that’s fine, but it’s pretty difficult to overstate the value of dynasty prestige in terms of making otherwise impossible actions possible. it isn’t just about the +10 opinion. i also don’t agree with your assessment of just going elective and being done with it, that’s got a ton of potential problems even if your domain is all your dynasty - more than I really want to type out while I am phone posting. patient is not a terribly high priority trait for educators imo. it does not have any special effects in the education process (unlike diligent), and its interrupt interaction is with Curious, which will evolve into either Shrewd (which is fantastic) or Cynical (which I consider a wash). It can be situationally helpful for curious children that you really need to not be Cynical for whatever reason but I don’t value it terribly highly when choosing a tutor for the realm.
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May 2, 2019 08:18
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Coolguye posted:let's be clear: when you say you are 'stuck' with elective gavelkind, do you not have any succession laws to choose from, or do you see them, and you simply can't change them because this requirement of a 10 year reign hasn't been met? Yeah, I see them, but can't change them because of the requirement. Torrannor posted:You have to have reigned the empire of Scandinavia for 10 years before you can change it's succession laws. It makes sense, I guess. I just thought I could chose the new inheritance laws immediately upon going feudal.
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May 2, 2019 14:35
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Ah yeah, that requirement is based upon the time your ruler has held that specific title, rather than their time as a ruler, so torranor has the right call there
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May 2, 2019 15:16
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today i learned in ck2: do not go full north korea on your realm if you need the pope for anything. he gets any and all tyrant maluses you generate.
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May 2, 2019 16:37
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fuf posted:How is antagonize meant to play out when used on a vassal? I tried it hoping that it would provoke the vassal into rebelling but he just stayed on -100 opinion for ages and didn't do anything about it. At some point, the antagonized person becomes your rival, which means you can duel them with the War focus and kill them with little repercussions.
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May 2, 2019 17:16
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Gantolandon posted:At some point, the antagonized person becomes your rival, which means you can duel them with the War focus and kill them with little repercussions. Ahhh cool. Never would have figured that out. My dude had a terrible personal combat skill so that probably wouldn't have worked anyway.
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May 2, 2019 17:29
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Not only that, someone you keep pissing off is far more likely to plot against you. Giving you a reason to arrest that sumbitch. Edit: sometimes just plotting against you doesn't give you reason to arrest AND revoke their title. In those instances(really in all instances imo), you want a low arrest chance. That way, he throws up his flag in rebellion and upon losing the war is seen as a traitor by all of your other vassals. Giving you a penalty free revocation of most if not all titles. Ultimate Shrek Fan fucked around with this message at 18:00 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 17:57
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you get 2 free revocations for an Overthrow Ruler war, which is all in a lot of cases but can be frustrating when you're dealing with a superduke or something.
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May 2, 2019 18:06
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I lost control of a Duchy when its inheritance passed out of my realm, the realm it passed to is controlled by my Dynasty who was installed there as part of a crusader state. What's the best/easiest way to get it back?
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May 2, 2019 18:10
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Yea, I said most if not all for the traitor revocation, because if you have a truce w/ (s)him from recent wars, you might not be able to revoke everything. But your bog standard vassal, you can take everything. It just happened to me last night. I had a duke, who managed to get all three counties in his duchy, plotting to fabricate a claim on my kingdom, not something you can revoke all titles for. However, I only had around a 20% chance to imprison him. So I tried to imprison him, he rebelled and then instead of just being able to arrest him, I could strip him of his titles penalty free.
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May 2, 2019 18:14
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Away all Goats posted:I lost control of a Duchy when its inheritance passed out of my realm, the realm it passed to is controlled by my Dynasty who was installed there as part of a crusader state. there's a few questions here. first, do you have exclave independence on? if so, is the ducal territory subject to it? usually if it's on it's "limited (naval)", which basically means that if the territory is not actually connected to the crusader state, and is landlocked, it will go independent the next time the titleholder dies. if this is the case your easiest solution is to just wait. the duchy will go independent and you can smash the new holder in a de jure claim. you say it's part of a crusader state. how far away is that state? if it's a long way away but is technically land-connected, go ahead and just declare the de jure war and smash the duchy down. holding the contested area will give you ticking war score, but if you're technically connected by land the AI will probably elect to move its soldiers by land, which will subject them to tons of out-of-supply attrition while enroute. so even if they outnumber you technically, they will show up badly depleted from attrition. if the crusader state is nearby, check where one of your vassals are in the line of succession, and then start stabbing dudes until it returns to your realm naturally. there might be other solutions depending on the situation so more detail would be great.
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May 2, 2019 18:28
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A big downside of landing your family is that it means that sooner or later they'll be inheriting claims on each others stuff, fomenting civil war, unprettying the borders and running the risk of superdukes. Whereas if you land a nobody and they're unable to keep up with familial attrition it just goes back to you. Also major vassals within a given realm will usually be angling to marry each other for claims and alliances, and if they're all cousins that's a ticking genetic timebomb of bad traits. Also sometimes you just gotta kill a vassal and getting Kinslayer for doing so sucks.
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May 2, 2019 22:20
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i really cannot think of a situation where i have had to kill a vassal. the oubliette is literally always a better option, because in that case you get some time to chill out with a neutered vassal. remember: the best vassals are imprisoned vassals! while under house arrest, they will be the perfect little angels. they have full health and can be expected to live a full life. they suffer no penalties to their stewardship score, which is what directly relates to your tax income. they simply cannot: - join factions - plot - breed - whine about not being on the council - join rebellions - generally annoy you in any conceivable way even if they're kin, if they've got an heir and i catch them plotting, they go under house arrest for the remainder of their natural lives. all of the other stuff will happen anyway, AIs will always marry for claims so you will always have supervassals at some point. just revoke and reland. the main way randos help is that they are guaranteed to not have nor ever have any claims of their own (whereas it's much more difficult to anticipate what will happen with your dynasts), which slows down the whole process by a good 2 generations or so. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 22:35 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 22:32
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I always love it when I release a vassal from prison and he ends up liking me less for it. Realistic!
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May 2, 2019 23:27
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pidan posted:I always love it when I release a vassal from prison and he ends up liking me less for it. Realistic! As opposed to the legions of former convicts today who jump to defend the justice system?
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May 2, 2019 23:38
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Coolguye posted:there's a few questions here. I don't know how to check if I have exclave independence on. I thought I had passed a law that disallowed titles to pass from my realm, is that what you mean? I'm King of Ireland (and Scotland) and the Crusader state is south west of where the Netherlands would normally be.
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May 3, 2019 00:57
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 21:33 |
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So apperently the Dutch took over Rutherania in a Crusade a while ago and then their descendants went native and became culturally Khazar. They are however in the process of being conquered by the Mongols. 
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May 3, 2019 01:58
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