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Aight next batch of game notes. I'm trying to keep these shorter but going hard on DMC then switching to Platinum was a trip. Bayonetta 1 the good (played through Infinite Climax) imo knocked the environments, level design stuff, and aesthetics out of the park. Fast paced combat that's pretty fun and witch time is a great gimmick. Amazing set pieces, bosses, and set piece bosses. There's some platforming and level transversal that unlike DmC is still fun on subsequent playthroughs. Shoutouts to Griphon, Phantom, and Shadow. The bad This is tough. Yin yang. Same stuff I love about the game has stuff that drive me nuts. Level design is awesome, until slipping on something just a touch and whoops there's a death bye-bye stage rank. Aesthetics are great until the 800th crotch/butt zoom in. Highest difficulty combat I feel like I'm just playing it wrong or missing something. Boss battles got old. Loved the game at lower levels, started really disliking it at DMD difficulty.  Bike and Space Harrier levels, one shot deaths, being attacked IMMEDIATELY out of nearly every cutscene. Now I'm scarred and will be dodging out of every cut scene for every one of these kind of games till the end of time.Metal Gear Rising Revengeance the good (played through Very Hard) Sword mode an awesome mechanic and gimmick, very tight and compact game, excellent enemy variety visually and mechanically. Boss fights were good too and mixed things up. While short and not a complete bundle like say DMC3, it's a really solid A+ fantastic game through and through. Sam DLC was cool, dog DLC was  .The bad Mechanics strongly steered me towards using a handful of attacks/moves and away from a lot of what was there by the end, ho hum level design, handful of frustrating enemy attacks. Unblockable attacks into chain stunlocks, cameraSo  on Bayo 1 combat after I've also replayed MGR. There's some breakdown video of what sucks about Bayo 2 compared to 1 where the guy says the high level combat takes a hit in 2 for relying on witch time but imo that's taking the icing off a cupcake. My experience in 1 was VH was still pretty groovy, but going to DMD where they disable witch time I just learned to cheese. I kept trying to do different combos, and use parries, and different weapons, but it was all really hard and kept not having much of a reward (like how Royal Guard is tough, but do it right and you get rewarded with mad damage. Here I'd get a parry and like, cool I can tap them once or twice before they recover from stagger and parry me right back). Figured out to just hang back from the enemies and one frame punch cancel into dodge, one frame kick cancel into dodge, one frame punch cancel again to finish the combo and fire off a weave attack. It did a lot of area damage while leaving me almost fully invincible and since weaves reset combo score degradation it'd also give S rank combo score. So I still liked VH a lot. But DMD I felt like pulled back some of the options that first gave the game its uniqueness, and once those fun/unique options are taken away or made less useful the game kinda loses its identity and hook.It shined a bright light on how awesomely designed DMC combat is. Some of the Platinum games I feel like have a sharp curve up to get their gimmick thing down, then as the difficulties go up I'm just ignoring a lot of what's there. Why figure out the nuance of 20 different combo routes when I can just sit there, get a parry timing right (with the help of iframes), and do 10x the damage of any combo? Whereas in DMCs as I've gone through the different games and difficulties it feels like each time it's throwing new and more options that are all viable and helpful in different situations and pushing towards and rewarding trying them all out. I may get stuck on a boss for a bit and DMC youtube results may be 5 different versions of ways to tackle and dunk on it. An MGR result though will just mostly be how to perfectly time nothing but parries, dodge attacks, and a basic combo. Like the difference in practicing scales vs. freestyling solos. Looking forward to replaying Bayo 2 and hitting DMD difficulty there. teh_Broseph fucked around with this message at 21:16 on May 3, 2019 |
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May 3, 2019 20:47
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The rote vs reactionary difference you're talking about is why timing based gameplay is utterly degenerate compared to positioning based gameplay, and why enemies that remove the positioning element (several enemies in DMC5 but mostly Furies) are just lazy, trash game design. God the camera is garbage in MGR though. I don't think a game has been as hampered by a terrible camera since the Playstation 1.
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May 3, 2019 20:57
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I've still enjoyed some of the timing based gameplay back to back with everything else, but when it turns into mostly timing based with really tight frame windows uughhh it just gets exhausting. I can deal with some camera stuff and it can kind of be an unfortunate necessity of gameplay - like holy poo poo when I saw in this thread that off camera enemies in DMCs don't attack so cam control is kind of part of how to play, wow that was good to know. Where MGR's camera got criminal is that it likes to move around on its own, and the parry system which is a key part of the game..requires cam relative direction specific input 
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May 3, 2019 21:05
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Every enemy in DMC5 is position-based. Even the dreaded Furies can't do poo poo to you if you keep them off camera
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May 3, 2019 21:14
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I remember in the OG DmC release that the teleporting orb head enemy could be caught in a perpetual loop of teleporting above a pit, falling, and teleporting back before falling again if the camera was angled right. And in another level would die instantly because it would teleport immediately into a laser wall if you tried to move the camera in a narrow hallway. I think the only DMC game that doesn't have the "enemies offscreen try to get onscreen/attack rarely giving extremely specific cues" is DMC2. It's impossible to gauge with the regular enemies because of their atrocious AI, but I know the Bolverk boss (knock-off Nelo Angelo skeleton dude with the wolves) frequently attacks offscreen with zero warning. Also liking your breakdowns, teh_Broseph.
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May 4, 2019 00:03
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K8.0 posted:God the camera is garbage in MGR though. I don't think a game has been as hampered by a terrible camera since the Playstation 1. Sekiro comes close
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May 4, 2019 05:46
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Head to the dragon shrine to get the sacred power
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May 4, 2019 05:54
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Phantasium posted:Does PS2 Rygar count for this... whatever this is. If I told a friend of mine that I wanted to play a game like Devil May Cry and they handed me a copy of Rygar for the Playstation 2, I would call the police on them.
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May 4, 2019 07:24
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Yeah, the only reason I would play Rygar PS2 is if I was looking specifically for character action games that were huge blunders. Having beaten the game at some point I do remember it having some fun elements, but nothing that stands out in any single way. I pretty much don't recall a single thing about the plot, character, skills or level design other than a firm image of ruins. It certainly had many of the trapping of a CAG, but made little to no use of them. If we want to talk about bad CAG there are certainly a few. Off the top of my head there is Golden Axe: Beast Rider, Red Ninja: End of Honour and Devil's Third. There's also a few crappy liscened games relating to various franchises that use the tenants of a CAG to little effect. A lot more tow the mediocre line. Things like Knight's Contract and Never Dead that you can see Selenic Martian LP. They are by no means awful games but they are certainly nothing to write home about and all have significant issues. Or Dante's Inferno, a well regarded game with... interesting design choices. It made a small splash and sold okay but it was barely up to par with older entries in the DMC franchise in terms of combat. My personal favourite middle of the road CAGs are actually the various 3D Castlevania entries: Lament of Innocence, Curse of Darkness, Lords of Shadows 1/2. They are all deeply flawed in some way and they don't really do anything particularily unique or interesting aside from some nice set pieces or music . They were a lot of fun to play though for me, partially because I love Castlevania and partially because they were decent games in a genre I enjoy. I left them off the list for what should be obvious reasons for anyone who actually played them. Also imagine you went to a game studio made up entirely of talented employees who had never heard of a character action game. You then gave them detailed explanations of the usual gameplay conventions and styles along with a small but acceptable budget for a full 3D PSN or XBox Aracde game. You did not however let them see any actual gameplay of other character action games before telling them to make one and loving off into the hills. With that in mind I present  A New Breed of Hero Returns! Zushio fucked around with this message at 08:52 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 08:35
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Zushio posted:-GrimGrimoire: Vanillaware's first game, released exclusively on PS2. I never played it but I heard it's pretty fun if not as evolved as later titles. Suffers from some pretty intense slowdown from my understanding, probably due to the absolutely gorgeous 2D animation. FYI GrimGrimoire isn't an action game, it's an RTS. It's pretty fun, and has a cute Hogwarts y time travel plot, but it's very different from Vanillaware's other games.
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May 4, 2019 13:10
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In Bayo 1 even on infinite climax if you perfect parry enemies with Moon you’ll get an enhanced witch time. I pretty much always went for parries over dodges whenever I played on infinite climax.
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May 4, 2019 13:50
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Zushio posted:
Considring it's frequently pocket change cheap, 3 hours long and occasionally funny, Marlow Briggs is worth playing. It's a pretty solid God of War rip off, with more love behind it than you would expect
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May 4, 2019 14:11
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yeah Rygar's a little stiff and the story ain't much to speak of but it's hard for me to hate the game where Typhon is a hydra with baby heads that constantly cry at you.
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May 4, 2019 15:29
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We've gone countless pages without anyone posting their combos 
Pomp fucked around with this message at 01:15 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 15:49
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RevolverDivider posted:In Bayo 1 even on infinite climax if you perfect parry enemies with Moon you’ll get an enhanced witch time. I pretty much always went for parries over dodges whenever I played on infinite climax. I wish, would've been a more interesting risk/reward option like how in SoS equivalent it gives you a longer witch time than normal dodge. All I got out of perfect parries was a not great counterattack. https://bayonetta.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Time posted:When playing on this difficulty in the first game, known as Non-Stop ∞ Climax, Witch Time is disabled automatically and can only be triggered by means of the Bracelet of Time or Selene's Light. All other methods are disabled, save for those instances where Witch Time is triggered cinematically, such as the final phases of the Fortitudo battle or during "Use Witch Time" Alfheims. Pomp posted:We've gone countless passes without anyone posting their combos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0W_MqibAsM
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May 4, 2019 19:26
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Golden Battler posted:FYI GrimGrimoire isn't an action game, it's an RTS. It's pretty fun, and has a cute Hogwarts y time travel plot, but it's very different from Vanillaware's other games. Oops, I honestly had no idea this was the case. As I said I never actually played, I just remember seeing many screenshots and hearing people talk about the lag. It certainly looks like an action game to a degree and considering everything else is I guess I just assumed. Everything I wrote was entirely from memory. Pomp posted:Considring it's frequently pocket change cheap, 3 hours long and occasionally funny, Marlow Briggs is worth playing. It's a pretty solid God of War rip off, with more love behind it than you would expect Oh yeah absolutely. My copy was 99 cents Canadian on Steam and I quite enjoyed it. Its clearly got a lot of love put in to it and has a really pervasive sense of manic humor. The cutscenes alone are absolutely mind blowing and hilarious, but not for any conventional reason. Zushio fucked around with this message at 20:05 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 19:56
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You might be thinking of Odin Sphere, which is also by Vanillaware. That's an action game, and the original was laggy as heck. The remake is incredible though. There's a ton more depth to combat, no lag, and way less grind. I highly recommend it.
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May 4, 2019 21:31
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Finished Bloody Palace with Nero finally, so I guess it's just to do Hell and Hell and I'm done with DMC 5... Subject to no doubt another 100 hours thrown into it in a year or two...
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May 5, 2019 03:01
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I am a hardcore Platinum Games fan, and when DMC4 came out I kept telling people Bayonetta has taken the DMC crown easily. I think DMC5 has taken it back, I don't expect Bayo 3 to live up to just how good this game is. Bayo 1 + 2 have incredible weapon variety and customization but a lot of how they achieved that was just unifying a lot of the movesets (Understandable, you can't have like... 50 DMC5 level of complexity movesets). I still loved their version of Bloody Palace in Bayo 2 figuring out a good set of weapon combos that let you handle all sorts of enemy types, I love the actual core combat and it feels fluid and great. I LOVE the aesthetic but a lot of my friends preferred the angry satan buttrock explosions of DMC to the campy naked woman dominatrix humor of Bayonetta. They're both great in different ways. From a story point of view, Metal Gear Rising is, no joke, one of my favorite game stories ever told. It is incredibly critical of the government, is basically prescient (The main bad guy says Make America Great Again and is a populist warmonger rear end in a top hat politician - the game came out before Trump ran for election) and yet they pair it with being able to cut a building sized robot in half with its own sword. I thought the combat personally was very good but it was REALLY different from what you come to expect in like a DMC/Bayonetta vein, with all the focus on parry and the first person cutting stuff (at high level you actually have to use it a lot). Nier Automata - the combat was not great. Compare it to Nier 1 and it's way way better but it doesn't evolve much and there is no incentive to replay the game for the combat. This only becomes so obvious because to get the final ending is like, 30 hours in. BUT the passable combat is made up for with an incredible soundtrack, a well thought out story, the best ending in a videogame. Great experience, play it anyway, don't expect to love the combat DMC 5 to me is the second coming of DMC3. Everything that made that game special and unique 15 years ago isn't just copied and updated for 2019, it really feels like they just upped their game in the same way DMC3 did for the entire genre.
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May 5, 2019 08:48
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I feel like the boxy level design and the relatively same-y environmental art are what's holding back DMC5's reputation when compared to DMC3. V is also getting kind of a mixed reception online, though I love his style, in spite of not being as polished as Nero and Dante. Plus, let's be honest, DMC needed a goth twink.
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May 5, 2019 09:33
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MGR is one of my fave games of all time. I'm so sad well prolly never get a sequel.
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May 5, 2019 12:25
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RBX posted:MGR is one of my fave games of all time. I'm so sad well prolly never get a sequel. So far the only game for me that has come close is Sekiro. Maybe if Nioh guys do Ninja Gaiden 4
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May 5, 2019 12:34
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I'm not saying other people are wrong but I always find it interesting what games people feel are similar to DMC. Like I'd never really put Sekiro or Red Ninja as being similar, IMO the core gameplay and challenges are very different.
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May 5, 2019 12:42
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“Action Games” is very nearly as meaningless in 2019 as “RPG mechanics” I echo many of the sentiments in this thread, but maybe none stronger than “MGR was the best Konami game ever and ahead of its time.” Seriously I don’t even need a full sequel, just a modded version that allows Sub-Weapon swaps without the pause menu. That singlehandedly would make a Top-5 action game of all time.
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May 5, 2019 12:51
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Before there was  BANG, BANG, BANG, PULL MY DEVIL TRIGGERthere was   RULES OF NATURE.
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May 5, 2019 13:05
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THE FLINCH IN YOUR EYE CALLS YOUR BLUFF
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May 5, 2019 13:10
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"Yes, yes! Cut it wide open!" exclaims Boris while Raiden is carefully preparing watermelon for dessert.
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May 5, 2019 13:50
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Hel posted:I'm not saying other people are wrong but I always find it interesting what games people feel are similar to DMC. Like I'd never really put Sekiro or Red Ninja as being similar, IMO the core gameplay and challenges are very different. Sekiro is only vaguely similar, and I doubt people would mention it in the same breath but for coming out right after DMC 5 (I thought the combat was pretty mediocre tbh after how ultra-responsive and spectacular DMC 5 combat was).
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May 5, 2019 14:05
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if this thread has devolved into just suggesting every game where you juggle enemies in 3D let me throw out a spotlight on a little title called anima. This game is made by three dudes in spain and I like it quite a bit, it starts out a little weak but it's got some real good parts (late game boss fights in particular) and some mechanics that I unironically think should be in every game in this genre like mid combo character switching. It actually feels like a better 3D metroidvania than the official ones do, for whatever that's worth. It's also got a side game which is basically a special edition, you play as a new character in some old content and some new stuff. Again the intro is the weakest part With that said pretty extreme content warning, if you aren't down with playing a game that looks and sounds like a fanfic someone wrote about all their favorite animes meeting up back in 2008 - only to rediscover it and file off all the names in order to legally sell it - you should probably street clear. darealkooky fucked around with this message at 18:54 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 18:52
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WaltherFeng posted:So far the only game for me that has come close is Sekiro. Sure would be crazy if team Ninja made a Ninja gaiden game
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May 5, 2019 21:07
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An oft not-recommended one, yet honestly a supremely strong game from Platinum is Transformers: Devastation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEHRysbEVQ8 The game honestly plays like a greatest hits of platinum. While a lot of environments are reused and there aren't that many enemies, it's got such a style and grace to it.
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May 6, 2019 05:46
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Unfortunately it's hard to get ahold of unless you buy it from a grey market or secondhand, as it has been removed from Steam and the MS Store due to (presumably) licensing issues. It's a real fun romp though and worth playing if you can track it down!
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May 6, 2019 05:53
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Finally upgraded Faust to lvl 4 for a staggering amount of 500k red orbs. Had it back by floor 10 of Bloody Palace 
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May 6, 2019 07:12
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Jenny Agutter posted:Sure would be crazy if team Ninja made a Ninja gaiden game This probably off topic, but speaking of Ninja Gaiden, was there ever any behind the scenes stuff or dev interviews that explained why Ninja Gaiden 3 was...like it was?
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May 6, 2019 07:17
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If a game is ever drastically different like that it's always because the OG devs aren't there anymore. Team Ninja lost alot of people with the itagaki split.
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May 6, 2019 08:03
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Crowetron posted:This probably off topic, but speaking of Ninja Gaiden, was there ever any behind the scenes stuff or dev interviews that explained why Ninja Gaiden 3 was...like it was? The whole series had been trending downwards since the original Xbox version And it's still better than Yaiba lol but that only stole the name.
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May 6, 2019 12:45
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Sakurazuka posted:The whole series had been trending downwards since the original Xbox version TAKE A SUCK!
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May 6, 2019 13:45
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Spergatory posted:
One of my favorite things these games do to make you feel like a badass is giving you a boss then, later, making that boss a completely normal enemy. I’m thinking of the boss reapers that DMC3 has as a level 1 boss. Then MGR has you clowning on a fuckin Metal Gear Ray as part of the prologue.
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May 6, 2019 14:10
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Boxman posted:One of my favorite things these games do to make you feel like a badass is giving you a boss then, later, making that boss a completely normal enemy. I’m thinking of the boss reapers that DMC3 has as a level 1 boss.  to  to while also introducing the player to most of the mechanics in the game, nothing else I've been playing through has come anywhere close to having that many awesome different types of sequences that all flow together. Top tier.Onmi posted:An oft not-recommended one, yet honestly a supremely strong game from Platinum is Transformers: Devastation CJacobs posted:Unfortunately it's hard to get ahold of unless you buy it from a grey market or secondhand, as it has been removed from Steam and the MS Store due to (presumably) licensing issues. It's a real fun romp though and worth playing if you can track it down! I'm playing through that now and it's great! If MGR is meat and potatoes, Transformers Devastation is a big scoop of ice cream in a waffle cone. It's playing a lot like Revengeance reskinned and trimmed with some Bayonetta and Vanquish flair thrown in. Almost done with it, hoping to finish before going out of town. I'm planning to move on after beating it on Prime (what I'd call DMD equivalent), but I'm gonna miss this one and may come back and play it more later. Really a shame it's not for sale any more, it got glossed over but it was a solid release I'd really recommend folks to play through at least once. It has some great lines in it too; if I start to hit burnout on these games I have this for inspiration now: https://loopvideos.com/cyK2WcSAHnk?from=366&to=378.
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May 6, 2019 15:54
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https://twitter.com/DevilMayCry/status/1125415244392804353 This is...curious...
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May 6, 2019 16:16
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