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Desiden posted:The "family giving beers to kids" bit was somewhat common among my cohort growing up white trash in rural America in the 70s and 80s. Especially around hunting. Grew up in Australia in the 80s. Wasn't uncommon here either. You're 10 or 12 and you do a day of yard work or split a stack of firewood or paint the fence or gopher for your dad while he works on a car or something, and you get a beer at the end. Usually a light or a pot glass. 1 standard drink. And it signals "you finished and did a good job". Most of my friends had something like that going on and so did i. I think it was supposed to teach you that grown-up work = grown-up reward, but what it actually taught people was that when you finish working, you start drinking. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 3, 2019 |
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May 3, 2019 23:06
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Hey, I grew up there/then too. I remember my dad offering me drinks but I never liked the taste. Judging from how he was later I think I dodged a bit of a bullet there.
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May 4, 2019 00:39
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Yea it's not a great move to do but it's not really that weird, lots of parents of that generation saw it as a more 'you did a big person thing, here's a big person reward' thing than 'whoo let's get this kid hosed UP' or whatever.
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May 4, 2019 01:20
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Of all the things that stuck out about the Ernie Gygax story for me, GG offering him beer didn't really rank. Like there's the bit about him becoming a cocaine dealer? Or beating up his dad. Or bragging about how he had ALL the chicks (who were of course to blame for all the problems in his life.) I hated reading it, but I also couldn't stop.
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May 4, 2019 01:25
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What made me  was quote:Dad listened to me and took a flight to Tampa to aid me in taking this Monkey off the back. Part of his answer was for us to go out and get drunk on legal margaritas and then somehow he took sides with Kelly against me ... From inside the van I spidered all 9 windows and when he further said, "now that is an intelligent way to handle this." I fought him to the ground until he stopped fighting back (our father had used physical force to dominate us and sometimes his wife so I was following right in his stupid footsteps – just as I had in so many good ones with gaming).
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May 4, 2019 02:10
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The ultra-casual misogyny of "low-hanging women" actually got one of the biggest reactions out of me.
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May 4, 2019 03:19
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For someone who professed at the end to have "learned a new respect for women" the ways in which he refers to them all throughout that story sure as gently caress don't show it. Glad he's in the process of turning his life around. Hope he realises he might still have a long way to go.
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May 4, 2019 03:29
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Does anyone have any idea what's up with the Savage Worlds Robotech RPG that showed up on DTRPG? After Palladium lost the Robotech license, a company called Strange Machine announced some board games and more recently Robotech: The Macross Saga Role Playing Game, so either Harmony-Gold licensed it to two different companies or there's some shenanigans going on.
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May 4, 2019 03:39
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sexpig by night posted:Yea it's not a great move to do but it's not really that weird, lots of parents of that generation saw it as a more 'you did a big person thing, here's a big person reward' thing than 'whoo let's get this kid hosed UP' or whatever.
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May 4, 2019 03:48
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Ewen Cluney posted:Does anyone have any idea what's up with the Savage Worlds Robotech RPG that showed up on DTRPG? After Palladium lost the Robotech license, a company called Strange Machine announced some board games and more recently Robotech: The Macross Saga Role Playing Game, so either Harmony-Gold licensed it to two different companies or there's some shenanigans going on.
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May 4, 2019 04:11
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Ewen Cluney posted:Does anyone have any idea what's up with the Savage Worlds Robotech RPG that showed up on DTRPG? After Palladium lost the Robotech license, a company called Strange Machine announced some board games and more recently Robotech: The Macross Saga Role Playing Game, so either Harmony-Gold licensed it to two different companies or there's some shenanigans going on. Both games have been talked about in the SMG discord server as of several months ago at least, where the SMG crew openly mentioned there being two games and that the SW version by Battlefield Press had an expected release date before SMG's own. So it's a known quantity in any case and I assume HG did a double license or something along those lines.
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May 4, 2019 05:28
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taichara posted:So it's a known quantity in any case and I assume HG did a double license or something along those lines. Or they both said "gently caress it", possibly because the HG copyright on SMG's site runs through 2017, which is when they got their asses handed to them in court. If you dig a little in their forums there is a beta of their game available. They also seem to have two simple boardgames available. NB: the Savage Worlds version on DTRPG is not complete, you need the SW rules to actually play. To make things weirder, there's a third company doing Robotech games, but they're using a pledge manager nobody has ever heard of. https://bravefrontier.pledgemanager.com/projects/robotech-crisis-point/participate/ On the other hand, BGG says their first Robotech game exists and doesn't suck (7.5 rating). What a time to be alive !
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May 4, 2019 07:39
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I think pointing out how common it is is both not helpful because... yeah alcohol overuse is an issue and but it also misses the whole point of a father getting his son addicted to his first drug because it was convenient to the parent. Like... yeah, we overuse alcohol and that's what started this poor dude's problems what does "it was(is) common in places ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" even do except detract from the seriousness of it
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May 4, 2019 09:15
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I always got to drink a glass of wine (usually with dinner) if my parents were having some. /shrug
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May 4, 2019 13:47
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I think people miss that he was being given booze as part of a reward system for good behavior, which to me makes is significantly more hosed up. ' if I could stay still long enough, more glasses of beer would be the reward'
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May 4, 2019 14:07
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Yeah, when I was young I would sometimes get A glass of wine or beer with dinner, but a) this wasn't part of a reward system and b) IT STOPPED AT ONE. I wasn't getting tipsy as a reward for pleasing my parents.
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May 4, 2019 14:19
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Darwinism posted:what does "it was(is) common in places ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" even do except detract from the seriousness of it It illustrates the pervasiveness of the problem: the beginning of Ernie Gygax's journey into substance abuse was no freakish coincidence. Also: counterspin posted:I think people miss that he was being given booze as part of a reward system for good behavior, which to me makes is significantly more hosed up. Right. There's a key difference between "alcohol on special occasions, supervised by the parents, independent of your behavior" and "good work kid, you're so grown up, have a beer."
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May 4, 2019 14:25
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Also sounds like he was on the spectrum? Regardless of that, being whipped by his mother with a switch, and other corporeal punishments, for underachieving in in school, is alarming. vvvv Are we assuming goons turned out fine haha. Anyway physical abuse for misbehavior is common, but I have not heard of abuse based purely on grades, whipping your child with a switch to get their reading level up. Sax Solo fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 16:41
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I dunno, I'm getting more of a, "I got spanked and turned out fine," vibe than a, "yeah this is a serious problem," vibe from all the people chiming in to say how normal it is and nothing else. And yeah, as I mentioned, the part where his dad got him addicted because it was convenient for the dad is truly the most hosed up part.
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May 4, 2019 17:31
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I've said it many times before and it bears repeating: Gary Gygax was a goddamn psychopath.
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May 4, 2019 20:36
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In conclusion, the tabletop gaming scene in the 1970s-80s was a land of contrasts
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May 4, 2019 21:30
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ProfessorCirno posted:I've said it many times before and it bears repeating: Gary Gygax was a goddamn psychopath. I saw you post that earlier, considered asking for details, and then this fell across my lap like a drunk middle schooler.
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May 4, 2019 22:53
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Apparently after he divorced his wife he moved to hollywood and spent his time loving supermodels and running D&D games for celebrities when he wasn't hosting massive parties(where he hosed supermodels)
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May 5, 2019 00:11
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I think three years of absolute sobriety is the leather armor anniversary.
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May 5, 2019 00:32
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Darwinism posted:I dunno, I'm getting more of a, "I got spanked and turned out fine," vibe than a, "yeah this is a serious problem," vibe from all the people chiming in to say how normal it is and nothing else. "It was normal" =/= "It was fine". It took me until my 30s to unfuck my attitudes around booze and manliness/adulthood. A bunch of my friends haven't done that and probably won't.
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May 5, 2019 01:13
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Also, children are not algorithms where planting X input results in Y experience and Z adulthood. What somebody copes with well or adapts to can't be remotely generalized.
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May 5, 2019 01:45
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Of course not on an individual basis, but don't discount observable trends and behaviors. For instance, there's a lot of evidence for the children of smokers growing up to be smokers.
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May 5, 2019 02:14
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Yeah, I largely meant "I turned out okay!" is a pretty lousy defense.
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May 5, 2019 02:36
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Oh, definitely. There's a tremendous number of factors that go into growing up, but it's hard to draw on something other than your own experience. Underage drinking seems to be a regional thing and a normal part of some cultures - but it sounds like things in the Gygax household went way beyond what anybody would consider normal. This wasn't wine on Thanksgiving, champagne on New Year's, or even a semi-regular beer after chores. Gygax was sedating his kid with alcohol. That's not comparable to any of the anecdotes shared ITT.
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May 5, 2019 02:52
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moths posted:This wasn't wine on Thanksgiving, champagne on New Year's, or even a semi-regular beer after chores. Gygax was sedating his kid with alcohol. That's not comparable to any of the anecdotes shared ITT. It's not. But it also wasn't that uncommon to sedate your kids 50+ years ago. I mean, night formula cough syrup as daily "bedtime medicine" was still a thing in the 80s. My gran would talk about how other mums in the 50s would use a mixture of honey and whiskey to get the kids to sleep (she was horrified - not that it happened at all, but that some parents would do it all the time). Before the 30s you could buy "Children's Sleep Formula" or whatever that was partly or even primarily opiates. Before that they just cut out the middlemen and had no pretense that it was anything other than "Oh, kid's teething, is it? Yeah, opium'll shut them up". 
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May 5, 2019 03:07
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I remember hearing about how "the kids today" are overmedicated by lazy adults who'd rather buy adderall than parent,* and it's weird seeing that same sentiment on an old timey newspaper cartoon. It's weird that we have always had such hosed-up views of mental health, childhood, parenting, and substance abuse. They're so intensely personal, but we keep making the same mistakes a hundred years later. (*Which was an incredibly harmful way to view mental health treatment. If your kids need medicine, buy them medicine. You can't discipline them out of ADD any more than you could for a kidney infection.)
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May 5, 2019 04:07
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I mean even beyond "give the kid beer to manage them," fast forward and you arrive at "I tried to quit drugs, and my dad's solution was to take me out on a bender, and then we had a physical fight, kinda like how he always physically fought all of his kids and his wife."
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May 5, 2019 04:22
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moths posted:I remember hearing about how "the kids today" are overmedicated by lazy adults who'd rather buy adderall than parent,* and it's weird seeing that same sentiment on an old timey newspaper cartoon. "The poor child's nurse" stuff wasn't anti children's opiates, it's was pro moderate/responsible administration of opiates to children. You could buy legal kiddy-branded morphine over the counter in most places in the USA up until a few years before Gygax was born.
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May 5, 2019 06:06
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Sax Solo posted:Also sounds like he was on the spectrum? Regardless of that, being whipped by his mother with a switch, and other corporeal punishments, for underachieving in in school, is alarming. Count yourself lucky. I know this sort of poo poo first hand. And thirdhand too. And this was in the late 80s. What worries me is that many victims of abuse become some of the worst abusers themselves the second they get a chance. The poo poo Gary G did was and still is way too goddamned common. He at least spent time with his kids when he wasn't abusing substances so uh... yay? Lots of parents don't or are just too tired from work to even if they wanted to. (Then there are the LIVING THROUGH THEIR KIDS Tiger Moms or Sports Dads or all sorts of other idiotic bullshit parents push on their kids. Most people get into whatever their parents and peer groups indoctrinate into them. Religion. Sports. This or that. It's how it is. poo poo is hosed but it's how it is.)
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May 5, 2019 23:58
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Hey, I just want to show you a cool thing I'm a part of: the San Jenaro CoOp, a game-creator coop where we publish together and each have a share. There's a better explanation in the interview here: https://twitter.com/insertquesthere/status/1125182312738508800 Also, well, ask me questions if you're interested i'm a part of it. I did two games: The Celestial Instrument, a game about living inside a giant magical mech and fighting back against the evil demons that have overrun it, and In Vino Veritas, a one-page Larp/drinking game where you lie to your friend about having slept with his ex/ruined his shoes/destroyed their favorite thing
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May 6, 2019 01:38
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https://twitter.com/Owen_Stephens/status/1126207820464939008 I've seen some bold plagiarism moves in RPGs in my time... and this is one of them.
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May 8, 2019 20:48
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Man all they had to do was plagiarize something not owned by WotC (or paizo or another major publisher) and no one would have noticed.
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May 8, 2019 20:54
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Uh... so what's going on with Stonemaier Games? http://www.tabletopwire.com/stonemaier-games-to-refuse-to-sell-to-retailers-who-spread-false-information-about-the-company/ What misinformation was being spread?
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May 8, 2019 21:03
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Finster Dexter posted:Uh... so what's going on with Stonemaier Games? Maybe it (still) has to do with the allegations of Scythe having copied artwork?
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May 8, 2019 21:22
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SilverMike posted:Maybe it (still) has to do with the allegations of Scythe having copied artwork? I'd heard those allegations - are they fibs?
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May 8, 2019 21:28
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