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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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sexpig by night posted:and I get that, that's a problem you'll always have, but it feels like at fuckin 21 we shoulda had DNC leadership pulling 'Governor Who Gives A poo poo From gently caress You That's Where' aside and going 'listen buddy, if you run for senate against your Republican senator instead we'll back you up and make it a nice national race where you can get on sunday shows and poo poo' by now. Like, that should be part of party leadership, reining the clown car in to spread resources better. I am sure after calls of rigging 2016 this was a smart idea. You can't have this argument both ways, either you want the party in or out.
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May 5, 2019 16:35
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HootTheOwl posted:I deny he kicked rear end, I don't see it as a reason he over performed, and his polling hit is an indication of that. Okay, well feel free to keep insisting "if there was another debate, Hillary would have won!" despite having literally zero evidence because you can't prove a hypothetical. Meanwhile, in the actual real world we all live in, we should probably try to acknowledge that reality exists, Trump is the President, and there aren't hypothetical timelines where the world is better because Hillary won that we can jump into if we just believe hard enough. joepinetree posted:Bernie on ABC right now and they keep trying to get him to attack Warren, and he has done nothing but praise her. Good, Bernie realizes that Joe and the other lovely Dems are the real threat to him, not Warren. Typo posted:the point is precisely that the debates did jack poo poo to stop trump even though he came across as an idiot in every single one Yes, I understand the point, Typo. That's exactly what I'm saying too. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 16:42 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 16:37
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Mooseontheloose posted:I am sure after calls of rigging 2016 this was a smart idea. You can't have this argument both ways, either you want the party in or out. I absolutely think there's a huge difference between what happened to Sanders, a candidate with massive popular support and fuckin Tom calling the dude polling at 'literally who' levels from Montana to go 'hey man you SURE you don't think trying to get a senate seat instead isn't the best idea to go with?'
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May 5, 2019 16:39
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Phi230 posted:Lol if you don't understand that the Democrats exist to collaborate with the right and destroy progressive movements Pretty much. It's why I don't feel bad about not voting for Biden. He's doing nothing that George Bush Jr wouldn't do and he's not even likely to fill up SCOTUS seats so why do I give a poo poo about propping up the corrupt Democratic leadership? I'll vote for Democrats that are good but gently caress the idea of "always vote blue" which has led us to a choice between two old racists that don't care about any voters well being.
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May 5, 2019 16:40
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WampaLord posted:And as we all know from history, that lost him the Presidency. the point is precisely that the debates did jack poo poo to stop trump even though he came across as an idiot in every single one
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May 5, 2019 16:40
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sexpig by night posted:I absolutely think there's a huge difference between what happened to Sanders, a candidate with massive popular support and fuckin Tom calling the dude polling at 'literally who' levels from Montana to go 'hey man you SURE you don't think trying to get a senate seat instead isn't the best idea to go with?' Again, can't have this both ways. You can't actively vetch about the party pushing people out in 2016 and 2018 but the second it might hurt your candidate say, where is the party on this. Especially because as of two weeks ago, Bernie was the de-facto frontrunner until Biden announced.
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May 5, 2019 16:41
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Typo posted:the point is precisely that the debates did jack poo poo to stop trump even though he came across as an idiot in every single one "Trump's polling was hurt by the debates" is objectively true statement. "Debates hurt Trump, not help him" is perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw from that. "Trump won the election, therefore he kicked rear end in the debates" is an insane idiotic conclusion to draw from that.
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May 5, 2019 16:45
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Tibalt posted:"Trump won the election, therefore he kicked rear end in the debates" is an insane idiotic conclusion to draw from that. Precisely one person (Kingfish) is making that argument, quote him and respond to him, don't say "y'all" like there are multiple people claiming he kicked rear end. My argument is that he didn't do that badly, because, well, he loving won.
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May 5, 2019 16:49
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sexpig by night posted:debates aren't that much about winning undecided people, they're about getting your base fired up and inspired to mobilize. Trump did that very well, Clinton did not, hence why she lost ~ThE bLuE wAlL~. For some reason this keeps being ignored and for the life of me I can't settle on why.
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May 5, 2019 16:49
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liberals are so loving bankrupt both morally and ideologically and they deserve to be in the dustbin of history but unfortunately both our decrepit and evil economic system and our demon cracker nation seems to be propping up this ideology xi drop the nukes
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May 5, 2019 16:51
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WampaLord posted:Precisely one person (Kingfish) is making that argument, quote him and respond to him, don't say "y'all" like there are multiple people claiming he kicked rear end. Edit: to make it more clear, I think the statement "But Trump won" in response to something that objectively hurt him is at best useless.
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May 5, 2019 16:53
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WampaLord posted:Precisely one person (Kingfish) is making that argument, quote him and respond to him, don't say "y'all" like there are multiple people claiming he kicked rear end. Lost the popular vote, which would seem to be an indicator of losing the debate. Poor election structure is another metric entirely.
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May 5, 2019 16:54
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Tibalt posted:I'm sorry, can you and Typo come out and say whether you think the debates helped Trump or hurt him? Maybe it would help move things along here. They clearly did not hurt Trump too much, as he won the election. I would have to conclude that they helped him in some amount, possibly by getting his base more excited to turn out and vote for him.
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May 5, 2019 16:55
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WampaLord posted:They clearly did not hurt Trump too much, as he won the election. I would have to conclude that they helped him in some amount, possibly by getting his base more excited to turn out and vote for him.
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May 5, 2019 16:56
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Phi230 posted:liberals are so loving bankrupt both morally and ideologically and they deserve to be in the dustbin of history but unfortunately both our decrepit and evil economic system and our demon cracker nation seems to be propping up this ideology why bother? democracy doesn't work and Xi Jiping thought is the future.
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May 5, 2019 16:58
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Tibalt posted:Do you think the Pussy Tape helped him? He won, after all. If you're going to sort everything into a binary of "helped" or "hurt" with zero nuance, this isn't going to be a very productive conversation. Aren't you the poster who said you'd vote for Hitler (D) over any Republican? I think you have extremely hosed up views re: politics and this is why we seem to fail to see eye to eye on basic things like the reality we're living in, you want to argue that certain things must have hurt Trump so much that he should have lost. Well, sad news, he did not lose. Maybe you should reconsider how you view the political world we exist in today? Unoriginal Name posted:Lost the popular vote, which would seem to be an indicator of losing the debate. Poor election structure is another metric entirely. Well we're still gonna have that same Electoral College in 2020, so it seems relevant.
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May 5, 2019 16:59
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Tibalt posted:I'm sorry, can you and Typo come out and say whether you think the debates helped Trump or hurt him? Maybe it would help move things along here. the whole point I was responding to is the idea that Biden is likely to self-destruct during the debates. While this is a possibility, the fact that Trump came across as an idiot but did -not- self-destruct points to the strong thesis that debates don't matter nearly as much as people are making it out to be
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May 5, 2019 17:00
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extremely hosed up that DnD comes out in support of sexual harassment and racial segregation in supporting Joe Biden
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May 5, 2019 17:01
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WampaLord posted:If you're going to sort everything into a binary of "helped" or "hurt" with zero nuance, this isn't going to be a very productive conversation. But I think you realize that, because now you're going off on some tangent about a different discussion in a different thread from last year - one where you're misrepresenting what I said and erasing the nuance of the conversation. If you don't like what I have to say but don't want to deal with it, you can just put me on ignore buddy.
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May 5, 2019 17:07
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joepinetree posted:Bernie on ABC right now and they keep trying to get him to attack Warren, and he has done nothing but praise her. Bernie's just too smart for them lol. Tibalt posted:I'm sorry, can you and Typo come out and say whether you think the debates helped Trump or hurt him? Maybe it would help move things along here. If they fired up his own base they definitely helped him no matter how the rest of the audience judged his performance. This should be obvious.
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May 5, 2019 17:10
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Typo posted:the whole point I was responding to is the idea that Biden is likely to self-destruct during the debates. While this is a possibility, the fact that Trump came across as an idiot but did -not- self-destruct points to the strong thesis that debates don't matter nearly as much as people are making it out to be Cerebral Bore posted:If they fired up his own base they definitely helped him no matter how the rest of the audience judged his performance. This should be obvious. Alright, fair enough. I agree that the debates are over-hyped in horse race narrative. But I don't really believe they fired up his base, it doesn't really seem supported by anything. Even at the time, his debate performance was polling below Trump's overall approval with Republicans.
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May 5, 2019 17:15
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Phi230 posted:extremely hosed up that DnD comes out in support of sexual harassment and racial segregation in supporting Joe Biden https://twitter.com/Essence/status/1123957856213131264
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May 5, 2019 17:36
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https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1125075715165020160 Bernie's announcing a plan to revitalize rural America today in Iowa. (click that link if you want to read all the policy details) quote:Agriculture today is not working for the majority of Americans. It is not working economically for farmers, it is not working for rural communities, and it is not working for the environment. But it is working for big agribusiness corporations that are extracting our rural resources for profit.
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May 5, 2019 17:36
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Conversely, that means that over fifty percent of a key demographic you need to win the presidency with is not saying yes.
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May 5, 2019 17:46
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/17/poll.blacks.democrats/ 57% poo poo Obama is finished.
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May 5, 2019 17:47
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Nvm
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May 5, 2019 18:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And we thought 'Sleepy Joe' wasn't appropriate. It's been said before, the one thing about Trump that still functions is his ability to identify and exploit people's weaknesses. He’s shockingly good at discerning weak spots. I don’t think sundowning Biden was on anyone else’s radar.
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May 5, 2019 18:42
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I totally believe that Joe Biden would win the primary if it were held today. Fortunately, Dem voters will be listening to Joe Biden talk for the next nine months before they get to vote, during which time they may form a different opinion about him.
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May 5, 2019 19:05
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https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1125096887474892800 Bernie is very smart to be the first candidate to tell rural voters "Hey, I give a poo poo about you" by releasing a vast and comprehensive policy for improving rural America. I hope all the people who go on and on about Warren's impressive policies take a look at this policy page with literally dozens of great policies for revitalizing rural America
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May 5, 2019 19:14
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WampaLord posted:https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1125075715165020160 My livelyhood would be directly harmed by this. It is the good and correct thing to do.
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May 5, 2019 19:25
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WampaLord posted:https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1125096887474892800 Warren’s public lands policy is a massive plan for the rural west and has a bunch of specific phrases that clearly indicate it had been crafted by people who know what the real community issues are. So I think they’re targeting two distinct groups here, the Sanders plan more focused east of the Rockies.
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May 5, 2019 19:36
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The Kingfish posted:He’s shockingly good at discerning weak spots. I don’t think sundowning Biden was on anyone else’s radar. You're overthinking it. He calls a lot of people sleepy. It's projection. He isn't some master rhetorician.
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May 5, 2019 19:37
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Trabisnikof posted:Warren’s public lands policy is a massive plan for the rural west and has a bunch of specific phrases that clearly indicate it had been crafted by people who know what the real community issues are. Are you implying Sanders plan doesn't have "a bunch of specific phrases that clearly indicate it had been crafted by people who know what the real community issues are?" Cause I go look at that website and I see a whole shitload of them. Here's one great example: quote:Ensure farmers have the Right to Repair their own equipment. In rural America today, farmers can’t even repair their own tractors or other equipment because of the greed of companies like John Deere. As noted in Wired Magazine, “Farmers can’t change engine settings, can’t retrofit old equipment with new features, and can’t modify their tractors to meet new environmental standards on their own” without going through an authorized repair agent. When we are in the White House, we will pass a national right-to-repair law that gives every farmer in America full rights over the machinery they buy. I have heard plenty of goons on these here forums complain about themselves or friends or family members not being able to repair their own tractors because of John Deere horseshit.
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May 5, 2019 19:41
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Typo posted:the whole point I was responding to is the idea that Biden is likely to self-destruct during the debates. While this is a possibility, the fact that Trump came across as an idiot but did -not- self-destruct points to the strong thesis that debates don't matter nearly as much as people are making it out to be I think the issue with using 2016 as an example of debates not mattering is all the other insane poo poo that happened which overshadowed them. It can be both true that Donny did horribly in the debates, inspiring no one on his side and turning off the mythic undecideds, and that the dumb gently caress FBI Director later holding a press conference about Hillary's investigation being reopened more than negated that detrimental performance.
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May 5, 2019 19:44
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WampaLord posted:Are you implying Sanders plan doesn't have "a bunch of specific phrases that clearly indicate it had been crafted by people who know what the real community issues are?" Chill. I’m just pointing out Warren had a plan designed to reach out to a (different) rural community first.
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May 5, 2019 19:48
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Trabisnikof posted:Chill. I’m just pointing out Warren had a plan designed to reach out to a (different) rural community first. Well, I'm also not convinced of your claim that Bernie's plan only appeals to eastern rural people, for that matter. It seems like it would appeal to all rural people, this idea you have that Warren's plan is going to appeal more to western rural people needs some backing up. E: VVV Maybe you could read the plan for yourself! It's weird how when good Bernie policies get posted, they get torn apart, but when good Warren policies get posted, that doesn't seem to happen. She only got dragged for the one bad policy idea she put out. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 19:51
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WampaLord posted:Well, I'm also not convinced of your claim that Bernie's plan only appeals to eastern rural people, for that matter. It seems like it would appeal to all rural people, this idea you have that Warren's plan is going to appeal more to western rural people needs some backing up. Western rural land use, iirc, is more steeped in issues relating to Native American land rights, rancher conflicts, federally owned land, etc. I don’t know how Bernie’s plan would interact with that but it’s a markedly different set of primary issues than say, Appalachia.
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May 5, 2019 20:07
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Ok seems like people are conflating some stuff. Warren has a farm plan and a public lands plan. The former has a lot of the same stuff as what Bernie just released: right to repair, breaking up big agribusiness, changing the rules to let small farmers compete, etc. The public lands plan is about conservation, clean energy generation, preserving national parks for the public good, etc. Looking at it I think Bernie's is slightly more detailed than Warren's but they both appear to have the same policy goals.
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May 5, 2019 20:20
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Ok seems like people are conflating some stuff. Warren has a farm plan and a public lands plan. The former has a lot of the same stuff as what Bernie just released: right to repair, breaking up big agribusiness, changing the rules to let small farmers compete, etc. The public lands plan is about conservation, clean energy generation, preserving national parks for the public good, etc. Oh I see. That makes sense. I thought we were discussing a single plan on Warren’s part. Well then idk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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May 5, 2019 20:21
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WampaLord posted:Well, I'm also not convinced of your claim that Bernie's plan only appeals to eastern rural people, for that matter. It seems like it would appeal to all rural people, this idea you have that Warren's plan is going to appeal more to western rural people needs some backing up. Warren’s plan is about public lands which are huge in the West while not important at all for agriculture in the East. Likewise, rural communities in the west are less exclusively agriculturally and specifically farm focused than in the East. This isn’t really a criticism of either plan.
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May 5, 2019 20:23
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