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My personal experience with FF13 was not having fun with the combat, doing 5 min of Excel to figure out an optimal strategy, being extremely underwhelmed by it and then just cruising through the game more out of a dare because of my friends tried to play it and found it a miserable experience and to be honest so did I, which is why I seldom bring the game up. I prefer to keep my unpopular opinions to myself and I remember at the time even as people shat on the game's story a lot of people found it to have a great battle system so it was transparent to me from the go that I was in the minority, but it's very hard to overstate how unappealing FF13's combat was to me.
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May 7, 2019 14:45
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Elentor posted:My personal experience with FF13 was not having fun with the combat, doing 5 min of Excel to figure out an optimal strategy, being extremely underwhelmed by it and then just cruising through the game more out of a dare because of my friends tried to play it and found it a miserable experience and to be honest so did I, which is why I seldom bring the game up. I dare you to eat this turd
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May 7, 2019 14:48
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I already did it and I refused to eat Turd-2.
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May 7, 2019 14:49
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Turd-3 fixes all the problems though (it does not, I actually really non-ironically like Turd-1 but Turd-3 is WOOF)
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May 7, 2019 14:52
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One of the reasons I love Ardyn and am not really interested in the new dlc with him at all, is in contrast to other FF villains who are all driven by some goal the party has to stop, Ardyn is as much driven by just wanting to loving hurt Noctis as he is his serious apocalypse plan, and a fair bit of said plan is devoted to fulfilling his personal grievances against the Lucians so even that wraps back around to 'make Noctis suffer, but also the gods too'. Ardyn is just so personally out to get you, the player, it's rare and memorable. Also at least in English his VA does an all time stunner of a performance. Never heard someone just sound so absolutely poisonous before.
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May 7, 2019 14:55
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I don't really understand the 5 minutes of excel to optimize combat if only because 13 does quite a lot to differentiate enemy types to make different paradigms more or less effective and to alternate when you need to be swapping and if there are opportunities for using incomplete ATB gauges to throw off enemy attacks. To me it takes the obvious enemy typing of 10 (but with significantly more variation and better palette swaps) with X-2's in-battle class swapping and then sped the whole thing up which is basically the perfect system to enjoy engaging with each and every fight as a new puzzle and thing to beat.
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May 7, 2019 14:59
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Barudak posted:I don't really understand the 5 minutes of excel to optimize combat if only because 13 does quite a lot to differentiate enemy types to make different paradigms more or less effective and to alternate when you need to be swapping and if there are opportunities for using incomplete ATB gauges to throw off enemy attacks. To me it takes the obvious enemy typing of 10 (but with significantly more variation and better palette swaps) with X-2's in-battle class swapping and then sped the whole thing up which is basically the perfect system to enjoy engaging with each and every fight as a new puzzle and thing to beat. I really, really like excel.
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May 7, 2019 15:04
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A Sometimes Food posted:One of the reasons I love Ardyn and am not really interested in the new dlc with him at all, is in contrast to other FF villains who are all driven by some goal the party has to stop, Ardyn is as much driven by just wanting to loving hurt Noctis as he is his serious apocalypse plan, and a fair bit of said plan is devoted to fulfilling his personal grievances against the Lucians so even that wraps back around to 'make Noctis suffer, but also the gods too'. The only thing I don't like is how much stuff happens off screen or is just not explained well. I'm in chapter 13? 14? And stuff just seems to keep happening between train stops without me. Also I should have put subtitles on like three or four chapters ago because I missed a whole lot of exposition from Ardyn and Shiva that seemed to be about fate and daemons and stars or whatever. E: it's the mumblecore final fantasy apparently.
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May 7, 2019 15:06
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Elentor posted:I really, really like excel. I mean, I do too but I guess to me other FF games take mere seconds to type into a cell A1 "Literally any Random Encounter" and cell B1 "Use Attack Command" so I don't see FF13 taking 5 minutes as anything less than praise versus the rest of the series.
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May 7, 2019 15:06
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AFashionableHat posted:Turd-3 fixes all the problems though The best part about FFXIII is not anything in-game, but how it acted as a cursed idol. Once I beat the game I sold it to Raine, a friend of mine who was living in a different state. When asked about what I thought of the game I told him it was great. He said he tried to play it, played for 4-5 hours, and hated it tremendously. A few years later I'm in a friend's house and I'm looking through his collection of games and find FFXIII. I ask him "oh wow, I did not picture you for someone who'd buy a final fantasy game" to which he replied "oh yeah, I don't. Raine just hyped the game up a lot and I believed him and bought it. I played it for some 5 hours and had to stop." The thing had returned to my hometown. Cue doomhouse flashbacks. 
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May 7, 2019 15:07
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Barudak posted:I mean, I do too but I guess to me other FF games take mere seconds to type into a cell A1 "Literally any Random Encounter" and cell A2 "Use Attack Command". Sure, you can look back at my post history and you'll see how underwhelmed I was at doing a blind run of FFXII fairly recently. Or how much I dislike the simplicity of the decision tree of FFXIV rotations. I guess what bothers me about FF13 is that yes, it's a puzzle, but it's not a particularly difficult one and it's not one I found enjoyable, which I as I said I understand to be in the minority. There's nothing about it that makes me particularly satisfied, and nothing about it that makes me curious to try new things. There was also nothing about it that made me want to get back to a second playthrough and break it some different way, which FF8 provides a lot. It wasn't hard enough to provide a challenge, and it wasn't an interesting feast of malformed systems that I could have fun breaking apart. It wasn't satisfying to shut down my brain while playing it, and it wasn't satisfying to excel it either. It was just very unfun. Even a game like FF5 has a huge horizontal diversity and a charming simplicity that makes me want to get back to it in a 4JF. Some games might interest me because they're hard, some might interest me because they're charming and simple, some might interest me because there's a nice impact and punch in the combat system and it feels visceral. Some games interest me because I have to stop and think hard and it's fun to do that, others just have such a pleasant combat that I can shut off my brain and grind to relax after hours of work. When playing FF13 I felt none of that, just a profound sense of boredom with the nice battle theme preventing me from falling asleep. Looking at it I can see it represents a very pure streamlining of a certain type of design that in its purest form might appeal to a lot of people, but to me it was just joyless. It's a pretty unpopular opinion but alas, that's how I felt. It certainly isn't alone in the Final Fantasy room when it comes down to that.
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May 7, 2019 15:23
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A Sometimes Food posted:One of the reasons I love Ardyn and am not really interested in the new dlc with him at all, is in contrast to other FF villains who are all driven by some goal the party has to stop, Ardyn is as much driven by just wanting to loving hurt Noctis as he is his serious apocalypse plan, and a fair bit of said plan is devoted to fulfilling his personal grievances against the Lucians so even that wraps back around to 'make Noctis suffer, but also the gods too'. Not many games really pull off a villain with a significant motivation of 'gently caress you, the player character, specifically' (without being part of a chosen one narrative, or at least being companion to it like Ardyn). I wouldn't say Ardyn does necessarily succed at that, I think largely because his intentions are obtuse as hell for most of the game so you don't really get to take in how much of it is just because he hates Noctis. Weirdly, yet unsurprisingly, a lot of the games I can think of that try and succeed at that kind of villain have links back to Earthbound, which itself had one of the earliest examples I can remember of that in gaming. That makes sense, since those games often invoke very childlike stories, settings and outlooks and a villain who mainly just hates you is one that makes the most sense in a childish story. So, points to Ardyn I guess for trying to bring that angle into a story about adults, regardless of success.
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May 7, 2019 15:27
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I feel like I get where you're coming from, and I think the issue here is we'd use excel in vastly different ways to "solve" these systems since we're interfacing with the the way these games combat systems are presented from opposite ends. FFXII's is garbage on my side too.
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May 7, 2019 15:36
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Barudak posted:I feel like I get where you're coming from, and I think the issue here is we'd use excel in vastly different ways to "solve" these systems since we're interfacing with the the way these games combat systems are presented from opposite ends. The "I used excel for 5 min" wasn't supposed to be a big point of my post, if you also enjoy theorycrafting then you probably get it that it is not something I have to go out of my way to do. The point is that I didn't really feel any satisfaction at any point of the process, and feeling satisfaction from a game's combat is very subjective. It's very easy for me to see why the game can be appealing to others. I got a different vibe from FFXII. I don't feel like I can complain a lot about FFXIII's combat other than "I really, really don't like it" but holy poo poo do I have words to say about FFXII.
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May 7, 2019 15:46
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Theres nowhere better than here, among friends who all dislike every game in this franchise we've played every game of, to ramble about minutae nobody, not even the devs who made it, will care about.
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May 7, 2019 15:48
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I want to see the FF13 spreadsheet.
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May 7, 2019 15:54
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Every Final Fantasy game is both the best and worst Final Fantasy game.
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May 7, 2019 15:56
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You are certainly entitled to dislike a game or an aspect of it and are certainly not alone in disliking 13's combat. To me it just is strange because 13's combat is the best in the series, and your response is so contrary to my experience. Otherwise, of the single player games only X-2 and 5 under stupid challenge rules comes anywhere close. Things that frustrate me about 13's combat: Anything regarding positioning - you have very limited ways of altering positioning in battle, and it's frustrating when you get AoE'd because of it. Some role AI - I really wish you could set gambits of the actions in a role. Saving Paradigm Decks - yes please. Scoring - rating battles is excellent, but the mechanics of this could've gone through another pass.
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May 7, 2019 16:01
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zedprime posted:I want to see the FF13 spreadsheet. The last time someone asked me to see a FF spreadsheet I made it crashed their Excel.
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May 7, 2019 16:05
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In a series with underwhelming and extremely basic combat systems I'd say XIII is pretty good. That and the music. XIII OST is really good.
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May 7, 2019 16:11
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Elentor posted:The thing had returned to my hometown. Cue doomhouse flashbacks. What an... odd looking... Lightning... What’s this... Lightning... doing... in my... house?!
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May 7, 2019 16:13
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Bregor posted:What an... odd looking... Lightning... She returned.
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May 7, 2019 16:20
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Mega64 posted:She returned. 
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May 7, 2019 16:21
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personally I rather like the Final Fantasy series
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May 7, 2019 16:32
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derra posted:Scoring - rating battles is excellent, but the mechanics of this could've gone through another pass. I'm not exactly sure what else they could've done, and honestly, I'm...fine with how it works? It's basically just time based ranking where it scales depending on the enemy level vs your party stats, which I think in theory is a good system of trying to balance out different player leveling/preparation for fights. It is usually a weird thing to account for when it comes to ranking systems vs leveling systems. The things I didn't like were: 1. As a whole, in general, the target times are far too easy. Sometimes there's nothing you can do when you get basic mob fights that all you need is 2 aggressive paradigms, but even some of the harder encounters you can mess up a bunch and still get easy 5 stars. It's probably mostly as a result of... 2. It's far too lenient for lower stats. The way the target times are really makes me think they thought players would always be upgrading equipment or buying the best stuff, when in actuality it's super common for people to not touch that stuff as much as they should. And while it's good that you can learn the mechanics to deal with fights anyways with lower stats, the target times start to inflate way too dramatically high to the point of ridiculousness. Like seeing stuff of some endgame normal encounters that, with little/no upgrades or leveling, would give you something like hour long target times for a 3-5 minute fight at worst. But it's hard for me to argue since, while it's a joke for underleveled stuff, you can see the shift pretty easily when you start upgrading/leveling higher, which I think was their main concern with the ranking systems. And, arguably, much more of a problem than low level stuff which is already inherently a challenge anyways.
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May 7, 2019 17:35
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On the whole it's OK, but I don't think it handles lots of little mobs well, I think it over-rewards preemptive strikes, and while a tradeoff between things like Auto-Synergist items and the full ATB on start vs raw stats items is interesting I don't feel it's implemented particularly well. It's mostly there but could be improved a bit.
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May 7, 2019 17:46
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I don't like star ratings in XIII. Here's hoping FFVIIR or FFXVI drop this action game wannabe crap. Although, what do ratings do in FFXV? If T40s can get A ranks it must be more forgiving than XIII but I didn't see what getting a high score actually did for you .
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May 7, 2019 18:07
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't like star ratings in XIII. Here's hoping FFVIIR or FFXVI drop this action game wannabe crap. Normally they're just for show, but there's a set of DLC accessories that give +1 AP if you get A rank in a category. Slapping on all three and getting all A ranks nets you +3 AP on top of whatever the fight got you.
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May 7, 2019 18:14
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Too bad there's no way to zoom out the camera in FXII, it's not that awful in handheld mode but man it looks bad on my TV in docked mode. did they change the lighting engine on this remaster? I don't remember the ps2 version being so dark in dungeons Slider fucked around with this message at 19:49 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 19:46
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For FF13, is it faster to just A-rank everything or try to intentionally suck on a few encounters so you can grind shrouds to bypass/cheese the lengthier ones?
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May 7, 2019 20:20
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Mega64 posted:For FF13, is it faster to just A-rank everything or try to intentionally suck on a few encounters so you can grind shrouds to bypass/cheese the lengthier ones? The speedrun grinds out shrouds in Chapter 2 by getting 0 star rankings for a while since that chapter has the highest rate of giving you shrouds. It can definitely save you some time than trying to grind out stuff for the tougher fights in Chapter 11+, but that's so far in advance that you're not gonna do that casually tbh.
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May 7, 2019 20:33
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FF13 is Good. WTF is GOAT?
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May 8, 2019 00:07
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Elephant Ambush posted:FF13 is Good. Games On A Track, which is why ffxiii was the game GOAT of the year
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May 8, 2019 00:10
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Also if youre playing FF13 casually you dont really need those shrouds.
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May 8, 2019 00:11
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I need the shrouds like I need the elixers. Number go up.
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May 8, 2019 00:29
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I had to look up what the shrouds were. I'm pretty sure I never bothered to use any. 13 was easier than mystic quest. It's like a game of rock paper scissors where rock wins 90% if the time and then when it doesn't you get an instant do over but your opponent is forced to do the exact same thing.
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May 8, 2019 03:39
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't like star ratings in XIII. Here's hoping FFVIIR or FFXVI drop this action game wannabe crap. who are these t40s I keep seeing people post about
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May 8, 2019 03:44
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TippingForties? LP guys.
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May 8, 2019 06:15
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Is that group even around? I pretty sure Kuvo usually with Geop and Vicas these days.
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May 8, 2019 06:16
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I remember when they were asking people for name suggestions a long time ago, I believe it was in their FFX LP. Makes one feel old 
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May 8, 2019 09:11
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