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DC Murderverse posted:I’ve always hated this argument. Like, nerds can’t skateboard? Nerds can’t be douchebags? Cmon, the last half-decade has clearly shown us that nerds can and will be douchey on the reg. In my mind, and I am assuming most peoples minds, its a direct comparison to Tobey Maguire's portrayal. I was able to feel empathy for Maguire immediately and constantly.
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May 7, 2019 21:46
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Tart Kitty posted:Ferngully is less patronizing in its messaging than Avatar, and that’s a cartoon that features a singing cloud of pollution. Yeah, out of the four, I would rank them - Best - Ferngully/The Last Samurai Average - Dances with Wolves Dumb - Avatar I can totally understand people disliking The Last Samurai (I mainly like it because you get to see Tom Cruse repeatedly get his rear end kicked), but anyone who tries to throw hate and shade on Ferngully can gently caress right off, it is a perfect film.
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May 7, 2019 21:47
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Detective No. 27 posted:Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man is weird to me on a conceptual level. It was the first Spider-Man movie to come out when I was years after my own high school experience, so he's supposed to be a modern teenager Peter Parker and yet Andrew Garfield is a few years older than me. how often are teenagers actually played by teenage actors though?
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May 7, 2019 21:47
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Tart Kitty posted:Ferngully is less patronizing in its messaging than Avatar, and that’s a cartoon that features a singing cloud of pollution. It's pretty clear Cameron's priority with Avatar was to bring his sexy blue alien cat lady fantasy to life. Everything else was secondary.
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May 7, 2019 21:48
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teagone posted:You should watch Alita: Battle Angel if you haven't. The action is right up there with all the crazy set pieces in Fury Road imo. Didn't Robert Rodriguez direct Alita? Cameron wrote the story (based on Yukito Kishiro's work), but Rodriguez put it all together.
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May 7, 2019 21:48
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teagone posted:It's pretty clear Cameron's priority with Avatar was to bring his sexy blue alien cat lady to life. Everything else was secondary. hell i'm glad for him
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May 7, 2019 21:49
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Tom Holland himself is 22 playing a high schooler. But he looks young so it works.
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May 7, 2019 21:49
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Tart Kitty posted:Ferngully is less patronizing in its messaging than Avatar, and that’s a cartoon that features a singing cloud of pollution. TIM CURRY as a singing cloud of pollution
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May 7, 2019 21:49
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People define nerd by surface-level signifiers like “loves science!” or “into Lego!” or “loves video games and superheroes” but like, the Ditko Spider-Man wasn’t a nerd because he was into science, he was a nerd and an outcast because he had the personality that lends itself to being excluded from society. ASM was being made on the cusp of traditional “nerd” signifiers becoming mainstream and cool, so they couldn’t just make what Raimi did in his movies (especially because even though they were set in the modern day they had a very retro sensibilty, as opposed to ASM, which did not, drawing from Ultimate Spider-Man instead of the Lee/Ditko/Romita-era stuff). So how do you make someone feel like an outcast without the signifiers normally used for that? Totally isolate them, but give them a personality that lends itself to isolation.
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May 7, 2019 21:50
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Tom Holland is the most believable of the three in terms of actually looking like a high schooler, but as someone who was in high school at the time of the release of Amazing Spiderman, I had no problem buying that Peter Parker as someone who could exist in that milieu.
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May 7, 2019 21:50
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Brother Entropy posted:how often are teenagers actually played by teenage actors though? Pretty often. I think it just stuck out to me in particular since it was probably the first superhero movie I'd seen in theaters in a long time where the main character wasn't an adult.
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May 7, 2019 21:50
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Brother Entropy posted:hell i'm glad for him Yeah, I mean if big blue futa cats are Cameron's thing, more power to him for getting his fetishes on screen and getting millions of people to pay for it.
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May 7, 2019 21:50
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I mean if big blue futa cats are Cameron's thing, more power to him for getting his fetishes on screen and getting millions of people to pay for it. Okay I must have missed something in Avatar, but I would rather you not elaborate.
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May 7, 2019 21:51
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I mean if big blue futa cats are Cameron's thing, more power to him for getting his fetishes on screen and getting millions of people to pay for it. 
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May 7, 2019 21:51
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I mean if big blue futa cats are Cameron's thing, more power to him for getting his fetishes on screen and getting millions of people to pay for it. Now we know why someone greenlighted the Sonic movie
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May 7, 2019 21:52
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:In my mind, and I am assuming most peoples minds, its a direct comparison to Tobey Maguire's portrayal. I was able to feel empathy for Maguire immediately and constantly. See I think his Peter is a bit much. I’ve softened a bit on it because there’s so much else to like about those movies but I don’t like Tobey as Peter as much as Garfield or Holland.
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May 7, 2019 21:52
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Bogus Adventure posted:Didn't Robert Rodriguez direct Alita? Cameron wrote the story (based on Yukito Kishiro's work), but Rodriguez put it all together. Yes. There's a long history behind Cameron's Battle Angel movie that I won't dump into the thread. But the gist of it is Cameron had been developing the film for a good goddamn long while and was going to direct it himself. He eventually got caught up with Avatar and handed the project over to Rodriguez who knocked it out of the park. Cameron stayed on as producer, but the film is a Rodriguez joint where he channels his best Cameron impression and it owns.
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May 7, 2019 21:53
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it's maybe a little too pat but i've long had the stance that tobey was the better peter but garfield was the better spiderman
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May 7, 2019 21:53
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DC Murderverse posted:See I think his Peter is a bit much. I’ve softened a bit on it because there’s so much else to like about those movies but I don’t like Tobey as Peter as much as Garfield or Holland. Yeah, Tobey's version came off as creepy/weird. I always saw Peter as more bookish and awkward, rather than someone who speaks barely above a whisper and carries teagone posted:Yes. There's a long history behind Cameron's Battle Angel movie that I won't dump into the thread. But the gist of it is Cameron had been developing the film for a good goddamn long while and was going to direct it himself. He eventually got caught up with Avatar and handed the project over to Rodeiguez who knocked it out of the park. Cameron stayed on as producer, but otherwise the film is a Rodriguez joint, but he channeles his best Cameron impression and it owns. Well, Robert Rodriguez owns in general.
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May 7, 2019 21:54
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I Before E posted:Okay I must have missed something in Avatar, but I would rather you not elaborate. Speaking of humanoid animals with cocks - one of my instructors was co-producer/1st AD for Sorry to Bother You. I had his class during the months lead up to that film's release and so we got to hear a ton of BTS stories. Apparently, the Boots wasn't pleased with the first model of the horse costumes, complaing, "Their cocks aren't big enough!" And so the prop company they were working with had to cast whole new rubber cocks for the characters.
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May 7, 2019 21:54
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DC Murderverse posted:See I think his Peter is a bit much. I’ve softened a bit on it because there’s so much else to like about those movies but I don’t like Tobey as Peter as much as Garfield or Holland. I am very glad that we, as Spider-man fans, have access to now four very different portrayals (including Miles, if you include the Peter Parker from that movie its five). I'm not counting the game because I haven't played it, but from what I've seen of it that can be another portrayal.
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May 7, 2019 21:55
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Miles is probably the best overall of both worlds. Tom Holland comes close. Garfield is my personal favorite. Maguire I just ... maybe I need to rewatch but I believe I didn't mind it at the time.
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May 7, 2019 21:57
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I was pretty underwhelmed by the game overall, but I appreciate it’s a story about the exact moment being Spider-Man stops being fun for Peter.
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May 7, 2019 21:57
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DC Murderverse posted:People define nerd by surface-level signifiers like “loves science!” or “into Lego!” or “loves video games and superheroes” but like, the Ditko Spider-Man wasn’t a nerd because he was into science, he was a nerd and an outcast because he had the personality that lends itself to being excluded from society. ASM was being made on the cusp of traditional “nerd” signifiers becoming mainstream and cool, so they couldn’t just make what Raimi did in his movies (especially because even though they were set in the modern day they had a very retro sensibilty, as opposed to ASM, which did not, drawing from Ultimate Spider-Man instead of the Lee/Ditko/Romita-era stuff). So how do you make someone feel like an outcast without the signifiers normally used for that? Totally isolate them, but give them a personality that lends itself to isolation. I agree with you in theory. I just don't feel like ASM pulled it off. Garfield has a lot of natural charisma and never felt appropriately outsider to me. Nor do I feel like he changed much. Toby had the same issue but at least felt like some one who would be an outsider. Largely because he had way less charisma.
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May 7, 2019 21:57
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I Before E posted:Okay I must have missed something in Avatar, but I would rather you not elaborate. I'll elaborate. The na'vi ponytails are a sensory organ and they stick them into everything.
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May 7, 2019 21:59
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If I'm being honest, speaking as a person with little to no charisma, seeing Garfield have charisma did annoy me on some level. edit: Vintersorg posted:
I'm not sure what you're apologizing for but I appreciate it! SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 21:59
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teagone posted:I'll elaborate. The na'vi ponytails are a sensory organ and they stick them into everything.  I really need to watch this again. I think I even own it on blu so it'll look good. Did it get a 4k release?SolidSnakesBandana posted:If I'm being honest, speaking as a person with little to no charisma, seeing Garfield have charisma did annoy me on some level.  Ugh, I hate being a jerk. Sorry.
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May 7, 2019 22:00
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Vintersorg posted:
No 4K release yet I don't think. Cameron usually drags his feet when it comes to getting his movies onto updated formats. Still waiting on The Abyss Blu-ray.
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May 7, 2019 22:06
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DC Murderverse posted:People define nerd by surface-level signifiers like “loves science!” or “into Lego!” or “loves video games and superheroes” but like, the Ditko Spider-Man wasn’t a nerd because he was into science, he was a nerd and an outcast because he had the personality that lends itself to being excluded from society. ASM was being made on the cusp of traditional “nerd” signifiers becoming mainstream and cool, so they couldn’t just make what Raimi did in his movies (especially because even though they were set in the modern day they had a very retro sensibilty, as opposed to ASM, which did not, drawing from Ultimate Spider-Man instead of the Lee/Ditko/Romita-era stuff). So how do you make someone feel like an outcast without the signifiers normally used for that? Totally isolate them, but give them a personality that lends itself to isolation. I'm only quoting this because you brought up something that I was going to My favorite Peter Parker is still the Ditko Peter. Fucker was conceited, arrogant, pissy and constantly, CONSTANTLY screwing up. He was a lovely person who tried to do the right thing and often failed miserably. Most of all, he was ANGRY. It was his innate morality that kept him from giving in to his worst demons, because otherwise Ditko Peter was violent, distrustful, antisocial and more than a bit paranoid. Mind, he had every right to be. His character softened once Romita took over, though the anger in particular would flare up from time to time. Eventually he just became a general Nice Guy as the mainstream markets latched onto him more and more, and his original traits were largely shed in favor of making him more generically heroic and cool.
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May 7, 2019 22:08
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I'd like to hear more about Ditko Parker. Can you elaborate more on him or point me to some specific comics?
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May 7, 2019 22:10
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 Eeeep
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May 7, 2019 22:12
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Burkion posted:I'm only quoting this because you brought up something that I was going to man when you lay it out like this it seems so obvious that a great character like that could only come so naturally from a libertarian
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May 7, 2019 22:15
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Vintersorg posted:
It's funny to me seeing extremely old Aunt May in this old rear end comic. Why is Aunt May so old anyway? She should be roughly the same age as Peter's parents.
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May 7, 2019 22:22
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I wonder who gets paid every time an MCU character says "friendly neighborhood Spider-man". I hope they're happy with their millions as I'm sick of that phrase. I also hope MJ doesn't end up in a situation where she has to be rescued by Peter and realizes for sure that he's Spider-man. That trope has been done to death and I don't want to see this MJ become a damsel in distress.
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May 7, 2019 22:24
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I'd like to hear more about Ditko Parker. Can you elaborate more on him or point me to some specific comics? It's pretty much the entire original run. As far as I'm aware Ditko didn't work on Spider-Man any after he quit the books, and there wasn't a whole lot of running around. Some of the early issues are rough, still coming off of the silver age, but I genuinely love the story telling and fun of the original Spider-Man run. As some one who absolutely did not grow up with it, I only got to read it fairly recently for the first time, it absolutely holds up. Peter is written as extremely goofy in a few respects, mostly how he can talk that isn't just dated slang. But the anger is there at the very start, when he swears one day he'll make all of his peers sorry they ever laughed at him. The fun thing with him though is that half of his problems are his own drat fault. He refused to interact with his peers, hit on his much older co-worker for a date rather than look around any of his existing friends. He was down right stand offish to Gwen, who was a VERY different character in the Ditko era- namely she had a character. Gwen was a popular college queen bee who saw how selfless Peter could be but kept buffering off of him because of his anger and mood swings. One of the best Spider-Man storylines ever, that just about everyone has homaged and one image from it in particular has been recreated probably more than Gwen being thrown from the bridge, is all about that. Peter gave May a blood transfusion a few issues earlier and she suddenly falls ill. He learns that it's due to radiation poisoning, and realizes that it's his own drat fault for not thinking through that. So he's wracked with guilt, all the while the criminal element of the city is better organized than ever by a mysterious Master Mind. Peter nearly burns all of his bridges in his social life just because of how upset he is It's really good. Ditko Peter keeps pushing on because he genuinely wants to do good-but he's also very selfish, self interested, and put upon too.
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May 7, 2019 22:24
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That does seem interesting. That sounds like a more realistic portrayal of what a superhero in real life would be like, rather than the paragons of justice we see in movies.
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May 7, 2019 22:28
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Brother Entropy posted:it's maybe a little too pat but i've long had the stance that tobey was the better peter but garfield was the better spiderman  , but it also felt like he never made the cathartic personality transition with the mask. Lol, he only did that when he got infected with the symbiote.
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May 7, 2019 22:39
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Maguire does quip in his fight with Bonesaw, but he's so embarrassed with himself he plays it straight for the next two movies.
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May 7, 2019 22:54
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Guy A. Person posted:There's a vast different between "nothing like a character" and "a different take on the character" tho. Burkion is right, if the only thing movie Mysterio shares is the name and the bubble headed costume, that would be a missed opportunity to either 1) do a different spin on the character but maintain the core concept or 2) use whatever new exciting concept they have in mind for an entirely new character. If he's literally just an alternate dimension tech wizard good guy, why use Mysterio specifically? To start, it is worth noting that "an entirely new character" is something that is unprecedented in Marvel Cinematic Universe for those with non-normal abilities. Mysterio, at his "core concept", is a person, first Quentin Beck but then others, who creates illusions to antagonize Spider-Man. This film, as with most other MCU films, has decided to go with the 'first generation' of the character, excluding versions like Daniel Berkhart and Francis Klum. If the filmmakers wanted someone who deals with illusions that are non-magical in nature related to Spider-Man, there are two well-known options, and I have previously discussed the non-Mysterio option. It is important to note that this is explicitly an alternate universe Quentin Beck. The Beck we have seen has the same appearance, has the same name, and has the same abilities as the prototypical Quentin Beck from the comics and other faithful properties. However, we have seen that he is, at least by virtue of both trailers, seemingly supportive of his mortal enemy Spider-Man and Nick Fury. There are multiple explanations for this seemingly strange quandary: 1. Being from an alternate universe, it can be explained that his MCU counterpart was villainous, but was defeated off-screen or in a forthcoming media property, meaning the "twist" is nothing more than a way to highlight the alternate universe gimmick by having a "bad guy" be a hero because it's a "alternate universe version". 2. He is secretly villanous, and the "twist" is just his deceptive powers at work. 3. The other character I mentioned in my previous post is involved, making this the subject of the "twist". 4. A Trevor Slattery-esque situation, meaning the "twist" is both in-story and marketing related. 5. As his previous world was destroyed, he may have decided to take up the mantle of good in honor of his dead planet, making the "twist" a tragic backstory to give context to his behavior. 6. There is no "twist", and the filmmakers, for no real reason, decided to make him a hero instead of a villain without any explanation whatsoever. I would say that all of these uses of Quentin Beck, Mysterio are valid, though I am leery of #6, which has never been my argument. Despite their relative lack of equal weighting in terms of what will likely be in the film, they would be valid uses of the character despite their varying intentions. I do understand that it will most likely not be something along the lines of Slattery, but it has happened before. I would love to see an actual new take on the character, even if this means the appearance/name/abilities are all that remain, and it is apparent that the version of Mysterio presented in both trailers is quite faithful in those three areas. Faithfulness, however, is absolutely worthless when it results in films reusing the same old stories again and again. I would honestly rather have a Quentin Beck that had absolutely nothing in common beyond the name and some other vestigial things, like Slattery or the fantastic version of the Grandmaster in Ragnarok, than something staid and boring like "he's secretly tricking Spider-Man!". Anything that is just a retread, including the scenario where he's just a villain, is far more of a waste than having him be something completely innovative and fresh. JfishPirate fucked around with this message at 23:04 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 22:54
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pospysyl posted:Maguire does quip in his fight with Bonesaw, but he's so embarrassed with himself he plays it straight for the next two movies. Randy Savage deserved better than the Raimi trilogy.
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May 7, 2019 22:55
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