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^^ Dwarves don't care about STR requirements for heavy armor. They're stuck at 25 ft movement regardless. Smashing Link posted:I'm thinking about rolling up a Mountain Dwarf War Wizard with the Guild with the Mercenary Veteran background, RPing him as a surly, lazy Teamster type of mercenary. Considering the War Caster feat as well as taking a 1 or 2 level dip into Fighter for armor profs, con save, and Action Surge. Thoughts? How do you want to play this character? What do you see yourself doing after initiative is rolled?
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May 7, 2019 16:32
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Conspiratiorist posted:It's basically the Beast Master's issue, where the best way to have a pet is to just ask DM for one whilst playing literally any other class.
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May 7, 2019 16:36
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Smashing Link posted:I'm thinking about rolling up a Mountain Dwarf War Wizard with the Guild with the Mercenary Veteran background, RPing him as a surly, lazy Teamster type of mercenary. Considering the War Caster feat as well as taking a 1 or 2 level dip into Fighter for armor profs, con save, and Action Surge. Thoughts? Dwarf: Whoa whoa whoa, rolling initiative is not in my contract buddy. You need to call a dice roller in for that, local 74 of the United International Game Workers. That actually sounds like a really fun character to play.
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May 7, 2019 16:45
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Smashing Link posted:I'm thinking about rolling up a Mountain Dwarf War Wizard with the Guild with the Mercenary Veteran background, RPing him as a surly, lazy Teamster type of mercenary. Considering the War Caster feat as well as taking a 1 or 2 level dip into Fighter for armor profs, con save, and Action Surge. Thoughts? I guess the question is, what do you want your character to accomplish? Because I'm assuming you want heavy armor proficiency and War Caster to crack heads in close quarters with your hands full of weapon and shield. If you're starting in Fighter for the armor proficiency, maybe go for Cleric instead? Without a racial bonus, you're not hitting 16 INT at level 1 anyways, and with Mountain Dwarf racials you have pointbuy to spare to cover all the necessities, i.e. STR, CON, INT, and WIS to qualify for multiclass. A dip into cleric still sets you back one level of spell acquisition, but at least you're not missing out on spell slot progression, and one level is good for picking up some cantrips and utility spells besides. I haven't really thought a lot about a heavy-armored close-quarters wizard before, but I'm sure there's enough tools there to make it work out alright.
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May 7, 2019 19:46
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Smashing Link posted:I'm thinking about rolling up a Mountain Dwarf War Wizard with the Guild with the Mercenary Veteran background, RPing him as a surly, lazy Teamster type of mercenary. Considering the War Caster feat as well as taking a 1 or 2 level dip into Fighter for armor profs, con save, and Action Surge. Thoughts? I like the idea. You can also go with the hilarity of giving him a low to average int and get creative with spells that either don't require saves or don't require to hit rolls. He'd be a great buffer as a dwarf, if you start as fighter to get proficient con saves and throw a ton of stats into con, it'd be hard to knock you out of concentration.
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May 7, 2019 20:51
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Josef bugman posted:Fair. Okay so Rogues. Arcane Tricksters are good if you want some magic, spells probably make them the stealthiest. Melee Cantrips can really amp up the damage of their single attack a round. Also Shadow Blade. All in all Arcane Tricksters are probably the strongest Rogue archetype, because spells. Because that is the kind of game this is. Assassin is bad. Super really bad like crazy. It requires a lot of help from the DM and Party to ever use. That said they can put out some good damage on the very very very rare occasion where they manage to succeed on getting Surprise. Inquisitor is mostly bad, it is ever so slightly better at Perception and Investigation, and can Sneak Attack against a single creature in certain situations while others can't, and at a higher level gets a little more damage against that same one target. But again mostly not all that good, it provides very little beyond just being an archetype-less Rogue. Mastermind is mostly meh, but better than the last two. Useful if you want more languages, though Backgrounds can get you some as well. That said it is better at using the Help action than most Rogues, and later on can basically mind blank themselves. Scout is good if you want more skills and expertises, if you want a non spellcasting ranger like class, and if you want some mobility. Gets 2 extra skills/expertise, faster movement, climb and swim speeds, advantage on initiative, advantage on everyone's attacks rolls against the first thing you hit in the first round, and eventually even an extra attack that can apply sneak attack if against a different target. It is just a nice well rounded archetype, probably the 2nd or 3rd best Rogue archetype. Swashbuckler is often considered one of the better Rogue archetypes. They can get sneak attack against targets others can't, can move away from enemies they attacked, some good stuff with Diplomacy and can be good at Athletics and Acrobatics if they have the bonus action to use before making the check. Again probably the 2nd or 3rd best Rogue archetype. Thief. ... Uh. It is not Assassin? Technically you might be able to do some good stuff with the bonus action Use an Item, but for the most part that is worthless except for using Healing Kits. Most of the other abilities are pretty blah to bad. They are good at using Stealth if not moving more than half their movement in a turn. Also at high levels they can get 2 turns in the first round of combat if not surprised, which is nice, but probably not as good as a second attack every round.
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May 8, 2019 01:13
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Ryuujin posted:Okay so Rogues. Hmm, I was thinking of rolling a dex, archery-focused Battle Master fighter (with sharpshooter) and dipping rogue, should I stay away from going Assassin then? I was thinking of picking up like 3 levels so I could gain advantage on things in the first round and knock them around to where I want them with maneuvers or the extra damage from sharpshooter.
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May 8, 2019 01:24
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Well you only get the Advantage against creatures who haven't gone yet, so if anything rolls higher on Initiative you aren't getting Advantage on them. If you are focusing on Battlemaster Fighter, what are you dipping Rogue for? Just a few dice of Sneak Attack? Assassin can get you Advantage against someone who hasn't gone yet, and if you actually manage to Surprise you can get a Crit. If that is all you want then fine, but well hopefully you manage to go first all the time. Most Rogue archetypes are probably not going to be of much help for just 3 levels, and any less than that and you don't even get the Archetype. Swashbuckler is less useful for Ranged characters, though it can still get the +Cha to Initiative. Scout still gets you Nature and Survival as trained and expertised skills and if an enemy ends their turn within 5ft of you you can spend a Reaction to move half your speed without provoking attacks of opportunity. Arcane Trickster could still be useful, but no scaling really except on the Cantrips which are less useful for a Ranged class or someone with Extra Attack. Inquisitive 3 is meh and probably not of much use to your build. Mastermind 3 can maybe be good for the bonus action Help action, if you aren't using your Bonus Action for anything else. Thief 3 is not really all that good.
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May 8, 2019 02:08
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Ryuujin posted:Well you only get the Advantage against creatures who haven't gone yet, so if anything rolls higher on Initiative you aren't getting Advantage on them. Yeah, I checked out Gloom Stalker rogue and it seems way more versatile. This would be for a level 8 character, so I was going to split it 5/3 to get the double attack. Edit: Although, rogues also get expertise bonuses and Cunning Action bonus moves, so that's appealing as well. change my name fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 02:13
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I would love class breakdowns like the above rogue one. I’m still relatively new to the game and just don’t have the knowledge stuff like others here. I mostly am still on “does this look cool/fun/thematic yes/no?”
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May 8, 2019 02:38
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Honestly there's absolutely no reason that an Assassin shouldn't be getting to use their Assassinate ability at least once per combat. Even if you aren't able to trigger a surprise round, you just need to attack an enemy lower on the initiative chart. Between stealth and different forms of haste spells, it's not difficult to set up a situation where you'll get to use it two or three times per combat. If a DM is pushing back on that core subclass ability, then just pick a different subclass because it's fundamental to it.
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May 8, 2019 03:17
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Assassinate is so garbage RAW I don't even understand how anyone who understands how surprise and rules works would consider it good content.
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May 8, 2019 03:24
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Kaal posted:Honestly there's absolutely no reason that an Assassin shouldn't be getting to use their Assassinate ability at least once per combat. Even if you aren't able to trigger a surprise round, you just need to attack an enemy lower on the initiative chart. Between stealth and different forms of haste spells, it's not difficult to set up a situation where you'll get to use it two or three times per combat. If a DM is pushing back on that core subclass ability, then just pick a different subclass because it's fundamental to it. How do you get to use Assassinate "against a target who hasn't acted/taken a turn yet in the combat" multiple times per combat?
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May 8, 2019 03:34
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doctor 7 posted:Assassinate is so garbage RAW I don't even understand how anyone who understands how surprise and rules works would consider it good content. The problem is a lot of people don't understand how Surprise works, and a lot of people think Surprise Rounds are still a thing.
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May 8, 2019 03:38
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Nash posted:I would love class breakdowns like the above rogue one. I’m still relatively new to the game and just don’t have the knowledge stuff like others here. I mostly am still on “does this look cool/fun/thematic yes/no?” I was about to write one, then remembered I did one like a couple weeks ago. Conspiratiorist posted:Guess I can make a quick one.
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May 8, 2019 03:40
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Infinite Karma posted:what Yeah it only triggers in the first round, but if you're attacking multiple times + action surge you could conceivably nail a bunch of people with advantage
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May 8, 2019 03:40
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I still don't like the "surprise rounds don't exist" thing repeated here - there is at most one round in each combat where anything could be surprised. Yes, maybe it's less confusing wrt old editions' surprise rounds if we puzzle out a name for it that isn't "surprise round", but come on.
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May 8, 2019 03:43
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"Surprise rounds" don't exist. The *surprised* condition kinda sorta exists but also not really.
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May 8, 2019 03:44
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change my name posted:Yeah it only triggers in the first round, but if you're attacking multiple times + action surge you could conceivably nail a bunch of people with advantage Who cares, if you aren't getting multiple free crits on your sneak attack dice (which only triggers once per round regardless)?
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May 8, 2019 03:49
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Infinite Karma posted:Who cares, if you aren't getting multiple free crits on your sneak attack dice (which only triggers once per round regardless)? You could feasibly use sharpshooter's "add +10 damage, take a -5 hit penalty" for each attack, but I'm not definitely not defending it, especially since I've never played a rogue
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May 8, 2019 03:52
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Conspiratiorist posted:I was about to write one, then remembered I did one like a couple weeks ago. I honestly feel like this should be put in the first post of this thread or something. It's a super good write-up and it was really helpful putting together a character for a campaign I started playing in a while back.
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May 8, 2019 03:58
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Conspiratiorist posted:^^ Not going for optimization at all. The backstory is a family of dwarves who are all for-hire mercenaries but do the absolute minimum when hired, constantly trying to wheedle for more gold. The PC has the rare trait of a knack for magic but views it more as a meal ticket and identifies as being still "one of the guys". Gets separated from his family at some point of course - haven't worked that part out yet. In combat he is quick to put up defenses for himself, then only secondarily considers what may benefit the party.
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May 8, 2019 03:59
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Smashing Link posted:Not going for optimization at all. The backstory is a family of dwarves who are all for-hire mercenaries but do the absolute minimum when hired, constantly trying to wheedle for more gold. The PC has the rare trait of a knack for magic but views it more as a meal ticket and identifies as being still "one of the guys". Gets separated from his family at some point of course - haven't worked that part out yet. In combat he is quick to put up defenses for himself, then only secondarily considers what may benefit the party. Just play a Sorcerer. ED: also I've played alongside this character gimmick a few times and it's incredibly infuriating rather than fun.
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May 8, 2019 04:04
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Conspiratiorist posted:Just play a Sorcerer. Geez those are just his flaws man, give him some room to grow, he's only level 1! He loves children and small animals.
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May 8, 2019 04:09
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Whenever you're making a character, always ask yourself this: "why would other people team up with me, going on perilous journeys and encountering life-threatening situations where trust and stalwartness is of the essence, and divvying up an equal share of the spoils, other than because I'm a player character?" This has been a public service announcement sponsored by the Something Awful forums.
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May 8, 2019 04:22
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It sounds like you're jumping headfirst into the "I don't want to go on the adventure" train, coupled with "hostile to the other party members" train. It's not a good dynamic. If you don't have character traits that make the other characters like him, nobody is going to goad him into coming along grumpily anyway, they'll just leave without him. Or they'll want to, and won't because you're one of the PCs.
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May 8, 2019 04:29
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I'm most attached to the laziness as a character flaw, open to being a nice guy who looks out for others. Just don't want to play a prince valiant type.
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May 8, 2019 04:50
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Maybe go for "loudly complains and tries to talk his way out of work, but his actions don't match his words and he's a solid dude who doesn't hesitate to do his part." Especially make him competent and useful. Only make him disruptive when it doesn't matter (like it's his turn to do the dishes).
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May 8, 2019 05:15
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The surprise rules are written so terribly that the only way to make them workable is by re-adding surprise rounds. Imagine this situation: Rogue and three Fighters in plate are sitting in a bush on the side of the road. They are completely obscured as long as they stay there. A pack of goblins walk down the road, totally oblivious. They're 30 feet from the heroes but cannot see, hear or smell them as long as our heroes don't move. The Rogue shoots a goblin with a bow. Possibly the Rogue needs to stealth-check for drawing and aiming without being seen, but let's say this rogue is stealthy and pulls it off. Clearly, the goblin in question is surprised. So is every other goblin in the group at the time of the Rogue's shot, as no goblins have recognized an enemy. RAW, everyone rolls initiative and has a turn in the same turn of combat as the Rogue's shot (because the Rogue's shot does not happen in the surprise round, because there is no surprise round). The goblins are surprised and as such have the surprised state in the first turn. The fighters, however, are not surprised, so they can run in and smack a goblin each on the first turn of combat, essentially piggy-backing off the Rogue's stealth and surprise attack, even though they are not stealthy themselves. Clearly, the reasonable outcome of the above situation is that the Rogue attacks first, and then everyone rolls initiative and a new round starts, which includes a new turn for the Rogue. The Rogue attacking from hidden before any Fighters reveal themselves confers the surprised state on the goblins for their first turn. Because there is no surprise round, this is the same first turn in which the Fighters can charge out and smash the goblins. RAW, the Rogue essentially stuns the entire goblin pack for the first round of combat by attacking from a hidden position. When I DM, I re-add the missing surprise round so the above situation runs like so: R0: Assuming Rogue is sufficiently stealthy/hidden, Rogue attacks without initiative. Fighters stay hidden because otherwise they break surprise and start R1 immediately. Goblins are surprised and do not act. R1: Everyone rolls initiative and acts as normal. The problem with the surprise rules is the combination of the surprise state being a 1 turn stun and there being no pre-round-1 surprise round, which means that a succesful stealth attack effectively stuns every enemy for a turn. Not just the goblin attacked is surprised, every goblin is in the above scenario: quote:Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter. Obviously, this crazy advantage for the Rogue's party only works if the party can setup a situation where the fighters are hidden by terrain (because they lack the ability to succesfully hide otherwise). But that's easy enough to do in many dungeons where they just hang back one corner, close enough to still gapclose and attack on one turn to gain the ridiculous advantage RAW confers on a surprise-attacking Rogue. TL;DR: Surprise rounds are necessary.
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May 8, 2019 07:08
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Conspiratiorist posted:I was about to write one, then remembered I did one like a couple weeks ago. Hey now, you forgot to mention the fact that Moon Druids are monstrously impossibly overpowered and functionally immortal at level 20...
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May 8, 2019 07:43
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The Mash posted:The surprise rules are written so terribly that the only way to make them workable is by re-adding surprise rounds. I can't figure out if it's just that you can't imagine an ambush, or if you're objecting to the entire concept of ambush. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 08:11 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 08:07
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The Mash posted:The surprise rules are written so terribly that the only way to make them workable is by re-adding surprise rounds. I... am I missing something here? Is the issue here to you that it isn't "fair" for the PCs to surprise ALL goblins when they attack merely ONE goblin here from ambush? I will more than freely state that the stealth rules are garbage Mearls shat out on a napkin on the way to work, but going "Alright so the ambush works and you ambush them" doesn't sound ridiculous or crazy to me here. Like, would you prefer that the Fighters all also roll Stealth too to get any benefits, or, to not give away their positions? Good luck since odds are at least one Fighter fails and welp either they get nothing for a decent plan, or there goes the ambush, with zero goblins surprised. Like, ok, its one round of advantage on the first round of attacks. Your "re-addition" just basically says "Ok one of you gets a benefit from this plan, the rest of you sit on your hands till we're done" which is uh, weak as hell to do as a DM. I am sure there is a game where an ambush like the game suggests would be overpowered if you constantly managed to pull if off, but uh, that game sure as hell ain't 5e, with its poo poo as loose as it is already. or TL;DR: This game is a shitshow in surprise as it is, but adding in a surprise round where almost no one can do anything is pointless unless the goal is to reign in planning or creative stuff, while wasting time.
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May 8, 2019 11:08
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Conspiratiorist posted:I was about to write one, then remembered I did one like a couple weeks ago. I will sing your praises from the highest mountaintop.
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May 8, 2019 12:52
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Conjuration owns though. Minor Conjuration is bare minimum fun for RP but often has practical uses. Benign Transposition is bare minimum a good option to protect yourself but combos really well with Misty Step for shenanigans. Not breaking concentration on conjurations is huge for a control wizard. None of it has the raw power of Portent, but that's basically every wizard school. Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 15:15
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I feel like oversimplifying the weapons to just being flavor added to inherent class numbers would be bad, but then I used to play Shadowrun, with all its inherent gear porn. That being said, there should probably be more options for different types of damage. Like, why the hell is there a Halberd and a Glaive when they're mechanically identical, and they're basically the same thing anyway? And then there's weird things like saying "a katana is just a longsword by another name," but then then a scimitar is listed and it's just a more expensive, heavier shortsword? If they want to dip into persnickety polearm specificity, then make a base option be a bec de corbin, or a lucerne hammer, so there'd be a blunt polearm. Did they even factor physical damage types into their weapon decisions? While we're at it, what's the "best" physical damage type?
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May 8, 2019 15:40
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I feel like oversimplifying the weapons to just being flavor added to inherent class numbers would be bad, but then I used to play Shadowrun, with all its inherent gear porn. That being said, there should probably be more options for different types of damage. Like, why the hell is there a Halberd and a Glaive when they're mechanically identical, and they're basically the same thing anyway? Exclusively carry a dagger, javelin, shortsword, spear, or trident in case you ever get into underwater combat.
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May 8, 2019 15:43
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Infinite Karma posted:Maybe go for "loudly complains and tries to talk his way out of work, but his actions don't match his words and he's a solid dude who doesn't hesitate to do his part." Even more fun: make him loudly complain and try to talk his way out of things because he knows he can't help himself, and he knows everyone knows he can't help himself, and when those things happen, he's going to be in the thick of things no matter how much he disagreed with them happening, and gently caress, guys, Mage Armor only goes so far, do you see what I'm wearing?
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May 8, 2019 15:47
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Karatela posted:I... am I missing something here? Is the issue here to you that it isn't "fair" for the PCs to surprise ALL goblins when they attack merely ONE goblin here from ambush? Elector_Nerdlingen posted:I can't figure out if it's just that you can't imagine an ambush, or if you're objecting to the entire concept of ambush. My problem is that RAW allows full plate fighters to ambush and get a free turn (in melee range, if they can run far enough) without succeeding stealth checks as long as their Rogue succeeds his/her own stealth check before attacking
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May 8, 2019 15:55
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The Mash posted:My problem is that RAW allows full plate fighters to ambush and get a free turn (in melee range, if they can run far enough) without succeeding stealth checks as long as their Rogue succeeds his/her own stealth check before attacking 
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May 8, 2019 16:15
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I’d love to see a full on fix to 5e, but then I’m curious if that’s just modern pathfinder.
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May 8, 2019 16:18
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