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It's absurd that Glen Jackson isn't considered good enough, but Raynal, Garces and Poite are.
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May 8, 2019 03:03
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Leaving out Ben Whitehouse, John Lacey and Joy Neville is also kind of unfathomable, but the IRB seem really concerned with maintaining a glass ceiling for referees at major international competitions.
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May 8, 2019 03:30
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Poite and Garces combined to tarnish one of the biggest events between World Cups in 2017, and has Raynal had a single good test? Like, people look back and criticise Craig Joubert, but he was in excellent refereeing form for 2010 and much of 2011. Has Raynal had any good refereeing performances at the test level?
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May 8, 2019 06:46
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Tyma posted:Leaving out Ben Whitehouse, John Lacey and Joy Neville is also kind of unfathomable, but the IRB seem really concerned with maintaining a glass ceiling for referees at major international competitions. I was surprised Neville didn't make it, I can only assume it was based on experience but I wouldn't let Lacey ref div 3 rugby. He's Clancy levels of dogshit.
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May 8, 2019 15:16
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Tyma posted:Hell Awaits Rugby World Cup Referees There's a marked difference between how NH Ref's and specifically French ref's referee the ruck so this mix could be seen as a disadvantage to the southern hemisphere teams. And obviously a disadvantage to any team reffed by Garcès or Poite .
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May 8, 2019 15:23
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Vaders Jester posted:He's Clancy levels of dogshit. I'm feeling especially masochistic today so I looked up Gorgeous George to remember why he pisses me off so much and came across a great piece of trivia; his first ever game in charge was an U15 league game that finished 0-0. He really should have taken that as an omen.
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May 8, 2019 16:30
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Tyma posted:Leaving out Ben Whitehouse, John Lacey and Joy Neville is also kind of unfathomable, but the IRB seem really concerned with maintaining a glass ceiling for referees at major international competitions. Ben "Medium Force Shoulder to the Head" Whitehouse just doesn't have the experience at the top level, from what I can see. I figure they're giving him another go around of four years to cut out those types of mistakes and get some important, near-championship deciding level matches under his belt. Joy Neville hasn't reffed any top level international competitions, although I could have expected her there as an AR, fourth official or in some other capacity. John Lacey was never gonna be there.
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May 9, 2019 14:33
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Gats has the Lions job then. That'll be the Scottish fans not bothering.
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May 10, 2019 22:31
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Tyma posted:Leaving out Ben Whitehouse, John Lacey and Joy Neville is also kind of unfathomable, but the IRB seem really concerned with maintaining a glass ceiling for referees at major international competitions. It's unfathomable to leave out a ref whose biggest international appointment appears to be Norway v Denmark? Sorry that is absolute tokenism, no male ref with her level of experience would be in the discussion.
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May 10, 2019 22:56
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Smorgasbord posted:Sorry that is absolute tokenism, no male ref with her level of experience would be in the discussion. Ok? I'm not 100% sure how tokenism works, or even how the selection process works, but World Rugby did recently declare that Joy Neville was The Best Referee In The World.  I hope you understand that it seems a little weird to see World Rugby's Best Referee In The World refereeing Norway vs Denmark, while 19 others are at the World Cup?
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May 11, 2019 03:38
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Tyma posted:Ok? I'm not 100% sure how tokenism works, or even how the selection process works, but World Rugby did recently declare that Joy Neville was The Best Referee In The World. I don't really put much stock in sporting awards anyway, but it sticks out to me compared to those other categories that they do not specify 'best referee of the year' as they did for the other categories. I have not seen her officiate but as far as I can find she has not refereed a men's international match of higher status than Norway v Denmark. To me she therefore cannot possibly be the best referee or in the mix for a World Cup spot because if that was the case she would have already progressed and impressed in 6 Nations or Rugby Championship. edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Awards yeah the referee award is an honorary thing either recognising notable careers or promoting diversity, definitely not any indication of that referee's 'ranking' amongst their peers for that year. Smorgasbord fucked around with this message at 05:17 on May 11, 2019 |
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May 11, 2019 05:11
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Honestly, both Joy Neville and Alhambra Nievas should have been included as Assistant Refs. Neville has refereed the women's World Cup final and Nievas has acted as AR in a test with a reasonable profile (USA v. Tonga) a few years ago.
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May 11, 2019 06:19
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Vagabundo posted:Honestly, both Joy Neville and Alhambra Nievas should have been included as Assistant Refs. Neville has refereed the women's World Cup final and Nievas has acted as AR in a test with a reasonable profile (USA v. Tonga) a few years ago. More deserving refs who have proven themselves in exponentially faster and higher pressure matches would have to miss out for that to happen. If they are fit enough and their performance in men's matches warrants it we should see them gradually working their way through the ranks the same as all of their peers, why should they be treated differently?
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May 11, 2019 06:55
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It's OK she's not going to be there so you don't have to worry about women being near a men's sport.
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May 11, 2019 08:23
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:It's OK she's not going to be there so you don't have to worry about women being near a men's sport. Yeah ok I guess I'm just a sexist for expecting people be treated equally regardless of gender huh.
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May 11, 2019 08:25
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Smorgasbord posted:More deserving refs who have proven themselves in exponentially faster and higher pressure matches would have to miss out for that to happen. If they are fit enough and their performance in men's matches warrants it we should see them gradually working their way through the ranks the same as all of their peers, why should they be treated differently? The only thing that would hold Nievas back is that she seems to be primarily focusing on Sevens, where there is less crossover now with the full form of the game. Neville, on the other hand, is getting regular game time at the club and provincial level in Europe, and frankly, looking at the referees already selected, there's no way she could do any worse than any of them.
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May 11, 2019 09:45
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Smorgasbord posted:Yeah ok I guess I'm just a sexist for expecting people be treated equally regardless of gender huh. Men have been treated as superior to women for *checks* the entirety of recorded history so calling for “gender equality” the minute it looks like women might be getting a slight advantage is pretty loving rich.
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May 11, 2019 10:14
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Saracens are a little bit better than Leinster.
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May 11, 2019 18:48
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Ah the good old sexist fall back of 'Well if they were good enough they would already be doing it but they aren't so they aren't'
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May 11, 2019 19:07
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HappyCamperGL posted:Saracens are a little bit better than Leinster. Ugh Ugh
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May 11, 2019 19:16
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HappyCamperGL posted:Saracens are a little bit better than Leinster. The darkest timeline continues.
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May 11, 2019 19:20
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Yeah, was hoping Leinster would win but Sarries did very well. The two best teams in Europe.
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May 11, 2019 19:29
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Aramoro posted:Ah the good old sexist fall back of 'Well if they were good enough they would already be doing it but they aren't so they aren't' I really don't think it's controversial to say that a referee of any gender who has not officiated a single tier 1 Men's test match should not be part of a limited pool of refs for the Men's World Cup but well here we are....
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May 11, 2019 22:48
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Smorgasbord posted:I really don't think it's controversial to say that a referee of any gender who has not officiated a single tier 1 Men's test match should not be part of a limited pool of refs for the Men's World Cup but well here we are.... She's literally the best referee in the world...
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May 11, 2019 23:58
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Smorgasbord posted:Yeah ok I guess I'm just a sexist for expecting people be treated equally regardless of gender huh. Also lmao at ignoring European domestic comps which are going to be a much higher standard than Norway vs. Denmark.
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May 12, 2019 01:01
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Aramoro posted:She's literally the best referee in the world... She's literally not, she has not even refereed a single tier 1 Men's test match so how can you possibly make that claim? I presume your qualification is the 2017 'World Rugby Referee Award'. As previously discussed that award is clearly distinct from the other awards which specify 'X' of the year. You can see this for yourself by looking up the winners and the year they won it in, several winners weren't even active international refs when they won it, it does not signify anything about the ref's quality amongst their peers (if you can even say a provincial ref is on the peer of an international one). She is also not even the current holder of said award in any case. It's pretty simple, she does not have the required experience to credibly be selected to referee in the Men's World Cup when compared against her peers. I would say the same about any ref of any gender who's biggest international men's appointment is Norway v Denmark. Really struggling with how that could possibly be a controversial statement.
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May 12, 2019 01:10
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Dude, you literally wouldn't have posted if she was a man. I'm not aware of any other ref who has been selected, or it has been argued should have been selected for the World Cup who has not reffed a single tier 1 Men's Test Match. This is ridiculous.
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May 12, 2019 01:18
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"she can't ref at the World Cup, she's not reffed any internationals" "she can't ref internationals, she's not reffed any cup finals" "she can't ref cup finals, she's not reffed in any top-level leagues" etc etc etc
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May 12, 2019 08:18
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Julio Cruz posted:"she can't ref at the World Cup, she's not reffed any internationals" That's just obtuse, there is a natural progression to elite refereeing, with the World Cup being limited to the very upper echelon. Of course you advance by proving your worth at different levels and higher profiles of games. You are suggesting she skip several steps in that progression at once, to be part of a very limited pool selected for the once in 4 year event that is the pinnacle for referees as well as players because of what exactly? An honorary award 2 years ago? She really impressed in that crucial Denmark v Norway game? It's not a controversial omission at all.
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May 12, 2019 10:21
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Stop digging chief. There's no daylight at the bottom of that hole you've made.
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May 12, 2019 14:48
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Smorgasbord is right though aren't they? Joy Neville has reffed a couple of Pro14 games and Challenge Cup match in the men's game so I should imagine WR wouldn't consider her yet. I remember her reffing the Dragons/Zebra game this season and thought she did well. No doubt she'll be in high demand for the Woman's game which is a barrier to her getting the experience she needs. A few AI/6N games as an AR should help. Having a woman who is also openly gay ref at the world cup would be amazing for rugby.
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May 12, 2019 15:51
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She can't get the experience she needs because there's a group of male referees who do have that experience (despite several of them being actual dogshit at reffing) and there's only so many top-level matches to go around. I'm not arguing for her to ref the Final or anything but there'd be no harm in giving her Georgia-Uruguay or Canada-Namibia where even if she performs poorly it's not going to affect the final outcome.
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May 12, 2019 16:05
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Her getting experience is the key. I don't know how they parcel out refs and she's employed by the IRFU so I don't know what matches are open to her. Quite a lot of international rugby is played these days so WR should be looking to give her that experience.
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May 12, 2019 16:19
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bessantj posted:Her getting experience is the key. I don't know how they parcel out refs and she's employed by the IRFU so I don't know what matches are open to her. Quite a lot of international rugby is played these days so WR should be looking to give her that experience. But she doesn't have the experience!, She should go out and get the experience of reffing some international matches first before she should be in line to referee some international matches. Wayne Barnes was refereeing international matches before he even became a professional referee. He was a World Cup referee 2 years after becoming a professional ref. Joy Nevillie has been a professional ref for 4 years now and refereed, so far she has refereed more international matches then Wayne Barnes had before he was picked as a world cup referee. But I'm sure it was Wayne Barnes's natural talent as a referee that saw him shot to prominence, and Joy Nevillie just needs to get out there and bootstrap herself some more international experience. Jérôme Garcès reffed his first International match in 2010, he reffed int he 2011 World Cup. Again, he just has the experience needed to ref at the top level. Romain Poite had already been an assistant ref in the 2007 World cup before he was allowed to ref his first top level match in 2010, and then referee in the 2011 World Cup. He just had the get up an go to already be a World Cup Referee before even trying to become a full international ref, that's the get up and go she needs. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 12:17 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 12:07
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Aramoro posted:But she doesn't have the experience!, She should go out and get the experience of reffing some international matches first before she should be in line to referee some international matches. Well I don't know what level Barnes had reffed at so he could have the experience. Frankly the Garcès example so a good advert for experience. I didn't know that about Poite (He's the referee not the coach.) though. It's a good point, if he can do that then there should be no barrier to Nevillie.
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May 13, 2019 12:31
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Quick referee question. Which ref will screw over the Bokke the most?
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May 13, 2019 20:36
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Maybe Nic Berry, a man so concussed they made him a referee? He became a referee 2 years after Joy Neville but his fast tracking into international and world cup reffing must just be because of his experience of....his first test match last year. Though maybe it's Mathieu Raynal who has reffed some key games like Scotland vs Tonga and Uruguay vs the USA and.....not much else. But that's plenty to be a World Cup Ref Or Paul Williams who's reffed as many as 5 Test Matches before in his entire career. But again plenty of top flight rugby to be a world cup referee. I mean Joy Neville has only refereed a world cup final before, she'd be a liability being expected to referee in important match unlike these guys. The cream of the crop, gone through the ranks enough to please Smorgasbord and his quest for 'equality between the sexes' Aramoro fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 22:26
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Please shut the gently caress up everyone.
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May 14, 2019 00:23
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Glasgow/Ulster & Leinster/Munster coming up on the weekend. I'm hoping for a Glasgow/Leinster final, they've been the best two teams.
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May 14, 2019 11:09
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bessantj posted:Glasgow/Ulster & Leinster/Munster coming up on the weekend. I'm hoping for a Glasgow/Leinster final, they've been the best two teams. Travelling to Glasgow for the game, think we should have a fair crack at it if Stockdale is back fit but would agree with you over the course of the season Glasgow and Leinster have been the best in the league.
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May 15, 2019 13:44
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