CanPol 2019 - you won't drink whiskey, and talk politics and vote like us

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2019 - you won't drink whiskey, and talk politics and vote like us

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infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

MA-Horus posted:

I just saw a listing of all the class cancellations at my old high school. Economics, world issues, personal finance + planning, bunch of music classes, Spanish and german classes, writer's craft, astronomy + space exploration.

I'm trying not to go all tin-foil hat here but if I were a conservative politician and wanted to create a group of people likely to vote conservative in the future, those are a big list of classes I'd want to cut.

I feel like the Ford administration's overt contempt for education is more personal than strategic

# ? May 8, 2019 16:51

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 00:53

Health Services: Feb 27, 2009

Writer's craft was probably the single most useful and practical course I took in high school.

# ? May 8, 2019 17:00

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Health Services posted:

Writer's craft was probably the single most useful and practical course I took in high school.

One of mine, for sure. As someone with an English degree, I'm still using refresher bits on grammar that I was taught during that class.

# ? May 8, 2019 17:01

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Yeah I'm sure there will be no impacts to society if we make high school even more useless and miserable and less stimulating and diverse. This is excellent policy with no downsides, that's for sure!

# ? May 8, 2019 17:20

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

In england they did just some sort of study that showed high schools where cuts to various youth program and extra classes were cut saw a direct increase in violent crime and a lowering of grades.

It's almost like investing in the next generation is one of, if not the most, critical functions of society and most import investments we can make.

# ? May 8, 2019 17:24

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Baronjutter posted:

In england they did just some sort of study that showed high schools where cuts to various youth program and extra classes were cut saw a direct increase in violent crime and a lowering of grades.

It's almost like investing in the next generation is one of, if not the most, critical functions of society and most import investments we can make.

The funny thing is that literally everyone knows this, but our entire political ecosystem is built around roughly 4-year electoral cycles with very few politicians lasting more than a couple cycles, so every politician stands to gain from raiding the education budget for immediate priorities now (whatever those may be) because they will no longer be in power 10 or 20 years down the road when the long-term effects of their education cuts hit society.

# ? May 8, 2019 17:27

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Teachers unions are incredibly powerful and when they go on strike governments often suffer permanent or fatal wounds. There is no political upside for the NDP in alienating what should be one of its most potent allies.

# ? May 8, 2019 17:38

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Helsing posted:

Teachers unions are incredibly powerful and when they go on strike governments often suffer permanent or fatal wounds. There is no political upside for the NDP in alienating what should be one of its most potent allies.

"Maybe if we're really hard on the teacher's union it will make some right wing voters not think we're so pro-union and attract the centrist vote!"

The NDP attacking unions as some centrist virtue signalling seems 100% like something their mega-brained strategists could see as a good idea.

# ? May 8, 2019 17:52

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Baronjutter posted:

"Maybe if we're really hard on the teacher's union it will make some right wing voters not think we're so pro-union and attract the centrist vote!"

The NDP attacking unions as some centrist virtue signalling seems 100% like something their mega-brained strategists could see as a good idea.

That was Bob Rae's strategy once in office and it directly contributed to the unexpected election victory of Mike Harris, so yeah this would be very true to form for the party.

# ? May 8, 2019 18:12

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

Postess with the Mostest posted:

Can we just hire marie henein to run the country, she gets poo poo done

https://twitter.com/kkirkup/status/1126186309125586945

:chord:

# ? May 8, 2019 19:08

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Man that shine came off Trudeau really, stunningly fast. He's hosed in this election, I'm convinced.

# ? May 8, 2019 19:09

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Baronjutter posted:

In england they did just some sort of study that showed high schools where cuts to various youth program and extra classes were cut saw a direct increase in violent crime and a lowering of grades.

It's almost like investing in the next generation is one of, if not the most, critical functions of society and most import investments we can make.

16 year olds should be able to vote

# ? May 8, 2019 19:42

BGrifter: Mar 16, 2007; Winner of Something Awful PS5 thread's Posting Excellence Award June 2022

Congratulations!

vyelkin posted:

https://twitter.com/billmckibben/st...pagenumber%3D56

lmao stop digging up the goddamn oil you lunatics

Alberta is a death cult.

# ? May 8, 2019 19:54

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

PT6A posted:

Man that shine came off Trudeau really, stunningly fast. He's hosed in this election, I'm convinced.

We're all boned.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:09

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Wistful of Dollars posted:

We're all boned.

Welp, better start convincing people to vote NDP really quick!

# ? May 8, 2019 20:12

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

Excited to fruitlessly cast my orange vote in the sea of blue

# ? May 8, 2019 20:16

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Good to see, as a thread, we're coming together to work on that negativity thing!

We've got a few months before the election, and it ain't going to be easy, but if you have me more or less convinced to vote NDP, I have to think a lot of voters are in play.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:19

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Canadian everyman, PT6A

# ? May 8, 2019 20:23

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

I may not be the Canadian everyman but I believe some of you will recall I was a rather enthusiastic supporter of the Conservatives at one time.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:24

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Okay, but I have my doubts that any meaningful percentage of Canadian voters read this thread, so while your personal journey to the left is certainly heartwarming, I'm not sure how it's meant to be a bellwether of the voting public.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:25

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Oh okay I guess we should just give up hope then, the only chance we have of changes people's minds politically is if they read these very important forums!

# ? May 8, 2019 20:27

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

I have no idea where you're going with this.

You said "but if you have me more or less convinced to vote NDP, I have to think a lot of voters are in play". What on earth could this possibly mean if not drawing a comparison to a) you, or b) the posts in this thread?

I'm not really meaning to be difficult here, I just have no idea what you mean to convey if not something relating to your personal journey being relevant to the politics of other Canadians.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:30

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

infernal machines posted:

I have no idea where you're going with this.

You said "but if you have me more or less convinced to vote NDP, I have to think a lot of voters are in play". What on earth could this possibly mean if not drawing a comparison to a) you, or b) the posts in this thread?

I'm saying that the political environment now is fundamentally different from what it was when Justin Trudeau got elected, or when Stephen Harper got elected for that matter. The NDP has every opportunity to make a big pickup here and form government if they play their cards right.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:32

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Oh, word. Yeah, I'm all for Orange Crush 2019.

Maybe at some point before October Jagmeet will realize there's an election on and get in front of a camera somewhere.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:34

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

infernal machines posted:

Oh, word. Yeah, I'm all for Orange Crush 2019.

Maybe at some point before October Jagmeet will realize there's an election on and get in front of a camera somewhere.

I've seen him speak in person and that won't help. He should just go full hog on aloofness and hope people are intrigued.

# ? May 8, 2019 20:37

BGrifter: Mar 16, 2007; Winner of Something Awful PS5 thread's Posting Excellence Award June 2022

Congratulations!

infernal machines posted:

Oh, word. Yeah, I'm all for Orange Crush 2019.

Maybe at some point before October Jagmeet will realize there's an election on and get in front of a camera somewhere.

Would a hypothetical NDP government under Jagmeet and the current party leadership be better than a Liberal or Conservative one by a large enough margin to be worth delaying fixing the party for a decade? I'm not convinced, but I'm open to someone trying.

The electorate sending a message that Mulcair and Jagmeet were right sounds like a bit of a nightmare scenario to me.

# ? May 8, 2019 21:23

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

BGrifter posted:

Would a hypothetical NDP government under Jagmeet and the current party leadership be better than a Liberal or Conservative one by a large enough margin to be worth delaying fixing the party for a decade? I'm not convinced, but I'm open to someone trying.

The electorate sending a message that Mulcair and Jagmeet were right sounds like a bit of a nightmare scenario to me.

Accelerationism is real dumb, yo.

# ? May 8, 2019 21:25

Azerban: Oct 28, 2003

It would be nice if we had a socialist party to try to pull the NDP et. al. leftwards. Oh well.

# ? May 8, 2019 21:29

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Be the change you want to see in the world.

At some point, you may have to simply accept that most Canadians do not want a leftist government. They might be acting against their own self-interests, but until you convince them, no party is going to magically find success by moving hard left.

# ? May 8, 2019 21:34

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Helsing posted:

Teachers unions are incredibly powerful and when they go on strike governments often suffer permanent or fatal wounds. There is no political upside for the NDP in alienating what should be one of its most potent allies.

There is like a minimum of 45 years of history in BC of teacher/government interactions like this, so it is 100% believable.

# ? May 8, 2019 21:46

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

New Green MP's fraught history with the NDP over Israel paved the way for his election

https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/new-green-mps-fraught-history-with-the-ndp-over-israel-paved-the-way-for-his-election/wcm/a3af0c1c-8f1e-4b9e-9ab4-629a384e9d60 posted:

Paul Manly’s decisive victory for the Greens on Vancouver Island in the Nanaimo-Ladysmith byelection may never have happened but for his long, fraught history with the NDP. That party rejected him as a potential candidate in 2014, allegedly over comments related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But despite their own sensitivities with that topic, the Greens took him on for the 2015 election.

At the last federal contest Manly stood as a Green candidate and lost to the party he originally wanted to represent — the party of his father, who had served as an NDP MP in the 1980s and, in 2012, found himself detained in Israel. It was defending his father that Manly had made the offending comments.

[...]

According to his public comments Manly has maintained that the NDP rejected him for petty political reasons, not because he said anything about Israel that violated its policies. The Green Party and NDP did not provide comment for this story before deadline, but at the time, a spokesman for the NDP said “issues” had arisen during its “confidential” vetting process.

“I have done nothing illegal or immoral, nothing that I am embarrassed about or which breaks the NDP constitution. The reason my candidacy is being blocked is political,” Manly wrote in an announcement on his Facebook page June 30, 2014.

On the other hand, any other half decent Green candidate would have won too so it's not like this mattered.

# ? May 8, 2019 22:36

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

James Baud posted:

New Green MP's fraught history with the NDP over Israel paved the way for his election

On the other hand, any other half decent Green candidate would have won too so it's not like this mattered.

Candidates love rationalizing their wins but in Canada it comes down to supporting the right colour at the right time. And it�s generally not which party they are but which party they aren�t.

# ? May 8, 2019 22:49

Argas: Jan 13, 2008; SRW Fanatic

ocrumsprug posted:

There is like a minimum of 45 years of history in BC of teacher/government interactions like this, so it is 100% believable.

Yeah, I remember the BCTF getting screwed by the government. Again and again. Primary, intermediate, high school, university.

# ? May 8, 2019 23:01

ARACHTION: Mar 10, 2012

Would someone remind me why the Greens are bad again?

I know they are afraid of wifi, into homeopathy, don�t like nuclear, but what else?

Are they boomer neo-Liberal environmentalists who just think the right mix of carbon taxes will save the planet?

Because otherwise, I�m willing to have my taxes pay for diluted bee venom if it means I get a Green New Deal.

# ? May 8, 2019 23:06

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

ARACHTION posted:

Would someone remind me why the Greens are bad again?

I know they are afraid of wifi, into homeopathy, don’t like nuclear, but what else?

Are they boomer neo-Liberal environmentalists who just think the right mix of carbon taxes will save the planet?

Because otherwise, I’m willing to have my taxes pay for diluted bee venom if it means I get a Green New Deal.

http://www.jjmccullough.com/elizabethmay.html

# ? May 8, 2019 23:09

MoaM: Dec 1, 2009; Joyous.

The Greens have very little interest in economic/social reform, iirc. Not at all comparable to AOC and co. in the States

# ? May 8, 2019 23:10

MikeSevigny: Aug 6, 2002; Habs 2006: Cristobal Persuasion

ocrumsprug posted:

There is like a minimum of 45 years of history in BC of teacher/government interactions like this, so it is 100% believable.

I could see a strike but I can�t imagine them trying to orchestrate one, especially for next year right before an election. Maybe Fleming�s a bad minister, maybe they just prioritized health over education, but given how smoothly they dealt with the other unions I don�t know why they�d turn around and (intentionally) mess with the teachers. It�s a malice vs. incompetence situation.

I�d also suggest that while my union, for instance, seemed very easily persuaded by the �don�t make Horgan look bad, we�ll cash in down the line if he�s re-elected� argument, I get the teachers not buying it, they�re (understandably, rightfully) more militant than the health care unions. It�s entirely possible the BCNDP just didn�t see that coming.

# ? May 8, 2019 23:10

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

ARACHTION posted:

Would someone remind me why the Greens are bad again?

I know they are afraid of wifi, into homeopathy, don�t like nuclear, but what else?

Are they boomer neo-Liberal environmentalists who just think the right mix of carbon taxes will save the planet?

Because otherwise, I�m willing to have my taxes pay for diluted bee venom if it means I get a Green New Deal.

The greens are kinda all over the place but honestly not that much worse than the NDP, who are also all over the place and sometimes extremely bad.

But in general, Greens bad because:
-"Not left, not right, forward". Although we generally associate environmentalism with the "left" the greens can be radical centrists on a lot of non-environmental issues.
-In my experience a lot of greens are pretty anti-union. Crusty hippies and rich saltspring cabin owners don't really need unions.
-Some of them are PHD's in environmental science, some of them are fwfwfwfwfw wifi causes autism and their various environmental policies reflect this.
-The BC Greens have been really dragging their feet and resistant to any sort of taxes on rich housing speculators because so far in BC the greens that have been elected are housing speculators representing ridings full of rich old home owners who's main environmental passions are based on how climate change might damage their waterfront homes or cabins.

# ? May 8, 2019 23:14

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Postess with the Mostest posted:

http://www.jjmccullough.com/elizabethmay.html

I'm not sure if linking JJ McCullough's opinions on anything can be considered a point for or against

# ? May 8, 2019 23:15

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 00:53

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

I get a pro-small government vibe from the greens so they tend to end up around LPC policy with the progressive stuff replaced with more individualistic libertarianism.

# ? May 8, 2019 23:15

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