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Vernacular posted:Ironically, Aurora's anti-Rick tunnel vision made an alternative boot to Julie/Aurora pretty much impossible to organize.
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May 9, 2019 08:50
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That was good fun. I think Lauren is actually playing a fairly decent game as well, when she pushed on her alliance to do her will, instead of talking about taking her out they capitulated to her demands, and her weird mix of simultaneous being amused by and completely over Rick is hilarious.
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May 9, 2019 10:07
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It's me, I'm the one who doesn't want Rick to win. I'll respect that he's working hard (and I believe that other people are looking too, but Rick was up searching since the middle of the night), but his social capital is just so bad outside of the jury. It's also incredibly obvious to everyone that he wins at the end, so finale night is gonna be really boring at this rate. Give me Lauren or Victoria. Anyway, Rick and Lauren both have idols, so they're guaranteed F5 at least (since EoE first). I'm not sure who's coming back, but based on tonight's episode it's one of Chris/Eric/Kelley/David/Reem. David would just make the death march even more boring, so anyone else. I don't even know what Chris or Eric would do. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 11:08 on May 9, 2019 |
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May 9, 2019 10:43
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Any reason why they didn't split the vote 2/2/2 tonight that I'm missing? They got played hard.
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May 9, 2019 11:17
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Teckiwi posted:Any reason why they didn't split the vote 2/2/2 tonight that I'm missing? They got played hard. Who would they even vote for? Lauren wanted to vote Aurora. Julie wanted to vote Aurora. Aurora wanted to vote Julie. So a 2-2-2 split would entail Gavin and Victoria voting Lauren. Which immediately alienates her when they didn't need to, and they can't even guarantee that she'd be voted out. As long as Rick was only playing for himself, there were no options besides Julie or Aurora. And no way would Julie and Aurora work together.
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May 9, 2019 11:26
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Teckiwi posted:Any reason why they didn't split the vote 2/2/2 tonight that I'm missing? They got played hard. They obviously knew Devins/Julia would be voting Aurora and that's who they would have done the vote split on so at that point you might as well roll with it and vote Aurora out. It's not worth the risk for Vic/Gavin/Lauren to put one of themselves into a 2-2-2 split cause they risk going home if something goes wrong.
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May 9, 2019 11:26
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ApplesandOranges posted:Who would they even vote for? Lauren wanted to vote Aurora. Yeah your right actually that was all that mattered tonight.
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May 9, 2019 12:00
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Pinterest Mom posted:These people know they need to win a challenge to vote Devens out right Pinterest Mom posted:I like people that strategise, manage to convince people and win majorities. People who paint themselves into corners where they need idols and immunities to survive are really boring. TASTE THE PAIN!! posted:Man, as much as I love Devens like the rest of the thread, the instant idol replacement and reclamation always kind of bothers me Spergatory posted:Look in the same general area they are looking, which gives you the best of both worlds. If you find it, you know they don't have it and can stop shadowing them. If they find it, you know.
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May 9, 2019 13:06
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Fast Luck posted:Yeah, gotta say voting out Aurora was really dumb. Rick making a big show how he can be with Julie and the returning player from the Edge for a 3-3 tie next episode? Even more reason to vote out Julie!! Aurora is good at challenges and good at fire? That's more reason to keep her when you know you've gotta still take out Rick and another returnee. I can't see a reason for any of them flipping on Aurora there. Devens has already managed infinitely more than Ben managed. Devens has actually won individual challenges, including the one that returned him from extinction. All Ben had going for him was one good tribal vote mid-game and the ability to find idols. Ben did not deserve to win his season at all, the jury was dumb. Devens, meanwhile, has actually won challenges, also finds idols AND has used them smartly, such as making Ron and Julie look dumb for double crossing him with the fake advantage and including fake using his idol for Julie. It also shows a strong social game that he was willing to make amends with Julie and he’s tried constantly to work with others. He can’t help if they all refuse. Comparatively, Ben made 0 attempt to reconcile with the other players and spent all of his time idol searching. TLDR: Replacing idols is dumb, but Devens game is so much stronger than just finding idols and so much stronger than Ben’s.
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May 9, 2019 13:24
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What soured me the most on the Ben win was the complete bullshit secret fire making challenge at 4. I dislike it enough to begin with know that it's a known entity, but when it's sprung on them last minute it was infuriating.
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May 9, 2019 13:39
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Nottherealaborn posted:Devens has already managed infinitely more than Ben managed. Devens has actually won individual challenges, including the one that returned him from extinction. All Ben had going for him was one good tribal vote mid-game and the ability to find idols. Ben did not deserve to win his season at all, the jury was dumb. Devens, meanwhile, has actually won challenges, also finds idols AND has used them smartly, such as making Ron and Julie look dumb for double crossing him with the fake advantage and including fake using his idol for Julie. It also shows a strong social game that he was willing to make amends with Julie and he’s tried constantly to work with others. He can’t help if they all refuse. Comparatively, Ben made 0 attempt to reconcile with the other players and spent all of his time idol searching. A big part of the reason Ben won was that he was going up against Ryan and Chrissy in the finals who had just burned every bridge imaginable. Also as far as the Aurora vote last night, I think everyone outside of Aurora knew that the person you want to pick to sit next to you at the end the most is Julie, who's basically only got a chance at one vote (Ron) in FTC. Meanwhile Aurora was probably the biggest threat outside of Rick remaining.
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May 9, 2019 14:18
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Nottherealaborn posted:Devens has already managed infinitely more than Ben managed. Devens has actually won individual challenges, including the one that returned him from extinction. All Ben had going for him was one good tribal vote mid-game and the ability to find idols. Ben did not deserve to win his season at all, the jury was dumb. Devens, meanwhile, has actually won challenges, also finds idols AND has used them smartly, such as making Ron and Julie look dumb for double crossing him with the fake advantage and including fake using his idol for Julie. It also shows a strong social game that he was willing to make amends with Julie and he’s tried constantly to work with others. He can’t help if they all refuse. Comparatively, Ben made 0 attempt to reconcile with the other players and spent all of his time idol searching. One other point worth noting is that Devens, and anybody else for that matter, isn’t blameless when nobody wants to work with them. That usually simply means that person has made it too obvious that they need to go. With Devens, that’s thanks to his Tribal Council theatrics, his personality, and so on. The thing that HvHvH has over this season is that there were more fleshed out characters there. It was easy to believe Ben would finally not be immune, and that someone else could win. Ryan, Chrissy, Devin Pinto... Of course that made Ben’s win more disappointing whereas here I think most people are kind of resigned to Devens winning somehow as nearly inevitable. But that doesn’t make for the most fun season! I guess we’ll see. Even ifDevens loses, and all his screentime is because the camera loves him, I feel like they could’ve done better showing off whoever the actual winner may be. Lauren I could see, I guess...
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May 9, 2019 15:21
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Fast Luck posted:and that someone else could win. Ryan, Chrissy lol
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May 9, 2019 15:26
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The thing with Ben, is he not only got idol after idol. But he got the surprise final 4 fire making challenge, don't even have to win the final immunity challenge to get to the end twist.
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May 9, 2019 15:38
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Rick: funny guy, I enjoy him Rick's edit: drowning out other players, I hate it
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May 9, 2019 15:41
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:The thing with Ben, is he not only got idol after idol. But he got the surprise final 4 fire making challenge, don't even have to win the final immunity challenge to get to the end twist.  Well, they were well-developed characters at least. Without Ben there, the jury would've had to choose them or Dr. Mike or Devin (who they still thought was a bimbo)
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May 9, 2019 15:49
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Fast Luck posted:Devin (who they still thought was a bimbo) Do you have a source on this? By the time final six came around everyone seemed to realize how well Devin was playing. He would have smoked anyone but Ben and even had a chance against Ben if they had gone head to head.
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May 9, 2019 15:53
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Chrissy tied for most individual immunity challenges won by a woman and was pretty dominant after the merge. That alone should have won her the game imo e: this of course ignores that her response to Ben’s “I’m a veteran” was “I’m a mom”, but still
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May 9, 2019 16:01
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IcePhoenix posted:Do you have a source on this? By the time final six came around everyone seemed to realize how well Devin was playing. He would have smoked anyone but Ben and even had a chance against Ben if they had gone head to head.
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May 9, 2019 16:03
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Most of the reason I don't like Ben's win is because that twist basically robbed Devon. He would have been a fantastic winner. There's no player like that still with a chance of winning this season so I'm fine with Rick winning.
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May 9, 2019 16:07
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"he got voted out" as a negative really ignores or even deliberately refuses to acknowledge the rules and theme of the season Having been voted out, but getting back in on the bottom, especially as early as he did, and surviving until the finals would be a plus as far as I can see Just like finding infinity idols is a plus. You might not like that the producers put them there, but for a player it's 100% good
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May 9, 2019 16:11
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Nottherealaborn posted:Chrissy tied for most individual immunity challenges won by a woman and was pretty dominant after the merge. That alone should have won her the game imo Didn't people on the jury just hate her in general though? I agree that she played well but social is important.
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May 9, 2019 16:21
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The Bloop posted:"he got voted out" as a negative really ignores or even deliberately refuses to acknowledge the rules and theme of the season I'm not saying that should necessarily disqualify him, though, as much as I'm saying I just don't like the path to the end of "everyone wants to vote you out for 5 votes in a row but you're just always immune so they can't." It was interesting with Mike Holloway, it was hosed up with Ben's idol bonanza and fire twist, and here it's just kind of tired to me? Like it's changing what the game is about and making it less complex, reducing it to idols and challenges. IcePhoenix posted:Didn't people on the jury just hate her in general though? I agree that she played well but social is important. 
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May 9, 2019 16:30
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Yeah, Devon would've had to sell the jury on his game, but given that basically every person on it besides Joe adored him, I think he would've had a pretty good shot. People are more inclined to be persuaded by you if they like you, which is part of the reason he was so effective in that season to begin with.
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May 9, 2019 16:34
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Fast Luck posted:Nobody knew that when they voted him out. He got straight up bounced like any other pre-merge person in any other season. A twist bringing him back in is all well and good, and he's had to survive for awhile now since his return, but that doesn't stop literally being voted out from being at least a negative mark on his resume. I think what made Mike’s when enjoyable was the other options were so unlikeable I was actively rooting against them. I didn’t have that feeling in HvHvH and so I disliked Ben’s win. I don’t have that feeling this season, so I’m also rooting for Devens to not quite make the final even if I mostly enjoy him as a character.
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May 9, 2019 16:38
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i do think now that lauren has a chance of beating devens... that's about the only alternative i can still see. like it's possible that rick is just such a massive character with such a big story that he's sucking up all the airtime, while lauren is a generally unexciting confessional giver that ended up slipping through for the win. consider though for example she was strongly featured in the wardog boot, included again as a crucial part of the ron plan, and now shown to us here talking about dumping julie even before rick's moveFast Luck posted:I'm not saying that should necessarily disqualify him, though,
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May 9, 2019 16:46
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If Lauren is in the final 3 with Devens, she should just look at him and go "I voted you out on DAY 10, BITCH!" 
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May 9, 2019 16:48
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Fast Luck posted:i do think now that lauren has a chance of beating devens... that's about the only alternative i can still see. like it's possible that rick is just such a massive character with such a big story that he's sucking up all the airtime, while lauren is a generally unexciting confessional giver that ended up slipping through for the win. consider though for example she was strongly featured in the wardog boot, included again as a crucial part of the ron plan, and now shown to us here talking about dumping julie even before rick's move yeah. I think the twist of getting someone back into the game at the merge is fine. But having someone come back at final five (or six, technically I guess), is dumb
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May 9, 2019 16:48
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I can't believe Lauren is still in. After being unable to eat for some time to passing out in a challenge, how has she not been given the boot yet?
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May 9, 2019 17:33
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It seems like suicide to take Gavin into the final three, unless I'm missing a ton of jury animosity towards him specifically? I guess I just don't get why there's zero heat on him?
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May 9, 2019 18:22
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Failson posted:It seems like suicide to take Gavin into the final three, unless I'm missing a ton of jury animosity towards him specifically? He's made no actual moves of his own, just mostly jumped on whichever alliance is gonna have the majority. I mean, it's not the worst strategy, and he seems likable enough, but when you have Rick dominating the social phase and Lauren and Victoria doing all the actual subtle moves, he really doesn't have much to present to the jury. Even Victoria's done more in the 'voting correctly' part. His best option is to sit next to Victoria and Julie, and even then I'm not convinced that Julie wouldn't get more votes anyway.
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May 9, 2019 18:29
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ApplesandOranges posted:His best option is to sit next to Victoria and Julie, and even then I'm not convinced that Julie wouldn't get more votes anyway. I guess one is more than zero
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May 9, 2019 18:32
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IMO Victoria profited greatly from that tribal. Devens stole Lauren and Gavin's claim to the move for himself with his idol fake out and the jury is going to believe it because Aurora is going to sell them on that over on EoE. If Lauren and/or Gavin want to try to claim it back at the end Victoria can say she knew about it and refused to go along, ensuring she gets Aurora's vote at least. I think Gavin's chances to win effectively died last night and there's no one he can sit with at the end he can beat any longer. He could maybe beat Julie and Lauren depending on how the jury is but I think Lauren comes out ahead there too because she has at least driven some votes at some point in the game. The path looks pretty open for any of Devens/Lauren/Victoria/EoE returnee to win. The only two I can't see winning at all are Julie and Gavin, unless it's a final two with just those two in it.
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May 9, 2019 19:56
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Lauren's game is hard to judge. On one hand, she's pretty much just the Lessu leftovers, having benefited from being a lesser threat in a tribe of several other larger threats. Much like some people ITT have a hard time giving Rick credit for playing a game involving always being on the outside looking in, I have a hard time giving Lauren credit for playing a game involving sneaking through by virtue of being a lesser target/ally of convenience for getting somebody like Rick out. On the other hand, she's made some good plays the last two episodes. Getting Ron out and managing to keep Julie around were big for her game, though it will be difficult to convince the jury that she was the main architect behind those moves. She's probably #2 at this point (might have been Victoria if she had the foresight to get out Lauren instead of Aurora), but that's basically the result of process of elimination. As for Rick, he definitely has flaws. He plays emotionally and dramatically, and while it makes for great tv, it has also helped distance him from the rest of the tribe, no doubt. But I mean, his mastery of tribal council is...kind of unparalleled? His skilled management of TC has influenced the course of the game more than any other player this season can lay claim to. By all accounts, he's a really decent and funny guy (amongst a totally boring cast), and the immunity wins/comeback from EoE aren't nothing. I think the Ben comparisons are a bit off target. It always felt like Ben inspired awe and fear just by virtue of being Ben. I think Rick has more actual feathers in his cap, which have been recognized correctly by other players as true signifiers of threat, thus causing everybody to basically boycott working with him. I think he's a less extreme example of Mike Holloway that talks a better talk.
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May 9, 2019 20:17
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curiousCat posted:Rick: funny guy, I enjoy him Yeah, it's funny seeing people going like "can you imagine how boring this season would be without Rick!" as if the decision to give Rick as much airtime as all the other contestants combined means everyone else is just sitting around doing jack poo poo. Save maybe Gavin, all of the other contestants have shown enough for me to believe they could easily be fleshed out into more dynamic characters, and the editors just saw The Rick Show as the easiest story to tell (particularly if he wins) In general, late-game idols tend to turn the people who find them into camera-hogs, which is part of why I've come to hate them so much. You're guaranteed airtime for you to say you're going to look for the idol, then you get airtime talking about how important it was for you to find the idol, then you get airtime talking about how you're going to leverage your idol to further your game. Plus all the other contestants get shown speculating about whether or not you have the idol, and how to navigate the different scenarios. It's exhausting
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May 9, 2019 20:21
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xbilkis posted:Yeah, it's funny seeing people going like "can you imagine how boring this season would be without Rick!" as if the decision to give Rick as much airtime as all the other contestants combined means everyone else is just sitting around doing jack poo poo. Save maybe Gavin, all of the other contestants have shown enough for me to believe they could easily be fleshed out into more dynamic characters, and the editors just saw The Rick Show as the easiest story to tell (particularly if he wins) The guy literally entertains people in front of a camera for a living. He's actually funny and charismatic, and he's playing a decent game to boot. He's gonna get his air time. If you want to blame people for air time discrepancies, start with the returning players.
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May 9, 2019 20:29
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Ah yes, a news anchor in Macon, Georgia, one of the most entertaining jobs imaginable. "Actually funny and charismatic" is a subjective point; I've always thought Rick is corny as hell. Still, I understand why people would like him. His edit was reasonable early in the season, but there are very few people who are deserving of the amount of airtime he's gotten recently. I liked contestants like Tony, Mike and Ben to varying degrees, but it was still annoying when they were at the peak of their edits. It feels counterproductive, to me, to risk overexposing the dude you're trying to get the audience to support (and to alienate any viewer who happens to dislike that contestant)
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May 9, 2019 20:41
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Rick's personality is divisive, yeah. I personally find him too hammy, but I get that there are people that enjoy him. And while his game is flawed, I can respect it. It's the imbalanced screentime that I have more of an issue with. Very few people can hog the endgame of a season without it being kinda boring.
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May 9, 2019 20:45
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xbilkis posted:Ah yes, a news anchor in Macon, Georgia, one of the most entertaining jobs imaginable. My point was that the guy carries himself well in front of a camera due to his experience. Like him or not, he knows what the producers are looking for. Same went for Mike White last year. It's not surprising to see the editors eating him up. I also just don't necessarily buy that the other players are diamonds in the rough with interesting stories waiting to be told. It's unfortunate that the returnees effectively siphoned their screentime pre-merge, but I'm just not all that captivated by a group of risk-averse players whose main strategy has been to go with the flow while the trigger happy alpha players get culled. Not that that's not a fair enough strategy given the circumstances, it's just boring. In fact, the disproportionate focus on Rick smacks of the editors putting all their eggs in one basket (regardless of whether or not he wins) to salvage a wholly unsatisfying season. We've talked about it before, but it's mostly a symptom of where the game is at these days. More pressure to get out the "big threats" early on = more fringe-y players at the end with a less obvious story to tell in the confessionals.
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May 9, 2019 22:23
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| # ? May 25, 2024 06:31 |
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I understand why people dislike Devens. Part of that is just different personalities clash. Part of that is people just not liking the person who the production "favors". Part of it is people just not liking the "kind of game" he's played, whether its one he's chosen or one he's just been forced to play. I get it. I don't agree with it, but that's stuff we've debated for years and will debate for years more. For me, I don't think there's one way to play this game and while I think Devens has made mistakes I think he's mostly been backed into a corner by stuff like the Wentworth Trio's target focus on him or Aurora's blind stubborness about him vs everyone who has ever betrayed her. I think he's worked with the cards he's been dealt and really done a pretty masterful job of outsmarting/scrambling his fellow players and one of the best jobs we've seen of playing to the Jury. And he amuses me. But I'm a weirdo and I kinda ended up feeling for Aurora and liking her. Sure, she made every possible wrong decision she could have made all season and got weirdly jerky and obsessed with getting out Devens, but she was like this barky little dog that won't give up. I think its an expectations thing. She was so invisible pre-merge except for people to say she was with Joe that I just expected her to give up or fall apart when Joe was gone. The fact that week after week she's just kept fighting her heart out despite her being wrong and isolated, and kept going back to the people who screwed her over again and again. I just ended up pulling for her. I'm like 50/50 on her best ending is to finally give in to respect Devens and give him her vote, or to just hold firm and fight stubbornly to the end. Randomly, I don't know what my favorite Edge of Extinction letter moment was. Julia having a tearful epiphany she never could have had without the experience by quoting herself from before the experience? Chris going out to a spot in the middle of the water and posing so he could read his letter and once again lament that wasn't able to be "perfect"? David once again vowing to be a grown up when he gets back from Neverland? Wentworth and Ron apparently deciding they weren't gonna take part in the "look like a douche" setup? Nah, naturally its Reem having the immediate instinct to mock her own letter and call pre EoE Reem "weird". God bless Reem. I love Losers Island. Also Gavin literally falling on his face is way funnier to me than it should be. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:06 on May 10, 2019 |
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