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Goober Peas posted:Hey you guys - the conversation is interesting, I get that it's a personal thing, but it is better when you guys aren't sniping This is actually pretty loving civil for gun chat, I'm proud of us. I have a friend who doesn't even own guns but he's so FREEDUM oriented in his politics that we'll get into full blown yelling matches over the issue.
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May 9, 2019 20:10
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at each other when making your points
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Hey, I just like guns as cool bits of machinery, and resent being told I can't have one. The loving bipedal meatbags that constitute the general public being allowed them too is somewhat less appealing.
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May 9, 2019 20:18
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freelop posted:Unless it's died again Curiosity came back online not long after it went offline Spirit and Opportunity, you heartless monster. 14 *years* Oppy wandered around up there. And for the record, other gun owners are definitely part of the problem. I just want to shoot targets, and know how to hunt if I need to. My pistol gets fired like twice a year. Ammo gets expensive pretty quick, never mind the weapon itself. Personally, I think if we in the US would actually address mental health instead of stigmatizing it, a lot of this would be a non-issue. Catch the killers before they become killers. Hopefully help them not become killers in the first place.
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May 9, 2019 20:22
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InitialDave posted:Hey, I just like guns as cool bits of machinery, and resent being told I can't have one. That is an amazingly accurate summation of my feelings on it.
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May 9, 2019 20:23
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Guns to me are a lot like cars and motorcycles. They're cool as hell and I like them, but I really dislike everyone else that thinks the same and would rather not socialize with them. 90% of the people that are into all of those things have really bad opinions about them.
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May 9, 2019 20:31
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I never liked the "defend my property" line because if you're willing to kill another human being over property you're a loving psychopath.
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May 9, 2019 20:33
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You'll find having poo poo that matters to you stolen modifies your stance on that somewhat.
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May 9, 2019 21:02
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No, it doesn't. Killing people over property is wrong and should be considered murder, full stop.
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May 9, 2019 21:32
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bolind posted:In completely unrelated news, I just learned that one of the kids in my son's daycare's father is seventy nine loving years old. Big. Dick. Energy.
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May 9, 2019 21:59
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bolind posted:In completely unrelated news, I just learned that one of the kids in my son's daycare's father is seventy nine loving years old. Jesus. My kid's great-grandmother is like 80. I'm 33 and my mom is 58. Jesus.
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May 9, 2019 22:01
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KillHour posted:No, it doesn't. Killing people over property is wrong and should be considered murder, full stop. Lol. Somebody got butthurt enough to spend money on you.
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May 9, 2019 22:51
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Because apparently the only way to protect property is lethal force, amirite? Signed, your local police department
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May 9, 2019 22:56
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Ether Frenzy posted:At first I was like 'How come none of these bent "Line of so-called Duty" coppers innit have guns or summat' when I first began to visit the UK 20 years ago. Then I realized it's because the crims don't have AK-47's that they bought at the Tesco's that afternoon, so the filth don't need to ride around like it's Fallujah either. It's not that big a thing, compared to the numbers. With 350+ million privately owned guns and over 700,000 sworn officers between state and federal, the number of officers killed as result of a crime is about 50 a year compared to about 1000 civilians per year shot to death by cops. MC Hawking posted:I think at the very least we can agree that more stringent restrictions on handgun access, proper training being required to obtain a purchase license, and minimum safe storage requirements would all go a long way. In practice, 'may-issue' licensing has historically meant 'no blacks, hispanics or poors allowed'. See why Diane Feinstein and celebrities and their handlers could get concealed carry permits in deeply gun-hostile California but the majority of private individuals were denied on various pretexts. In any case, such provisions would require a successful repeal of the 2nd Amendment to have any teeth, for the same reasons poll taxes get struck down. Licensing to exercise what is recognized as a constitutional right goes under a lot of really ugly doors you don't want to open up to right-wing interpretation in the US. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 23:05 on May 9, 2019 |
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May 9, 2019 22:56
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meatpimp posted:Lol. Somebody got butthurt enough to spend money on you. My first hate-title  Edit: This is no poo poo one of those "Conservatives think good thing is bad" memes. Double edit: Someone gave me my avatar back! 
KillHour fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 9, 2019 |
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May 9, 2019 23:10
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KillHour posted:I'm a physical/operational security and risk consultant. Trust me when I say a locked residential door is going to do jack squat to protect me from the kind of psycho who would drive to the suburbs just to break into an occupied house. When I lived in an apartment, I locked my door just because drunks sometimes walk into the wrong apartment. It was me. I did that. Hey, if you were a cop, you could walk into your neighbor's place and shoot them to death for being black in their own apartment because you thought they were a burglar!
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May 9, 2019 23:11
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I think if you witness someone actively stealing from you, presenting a weapon and telling them to stop stealing, should not be a crime. What happens from there depends on their response, and you had better not make the wrong snap decision. There's probably more ways for this scenario to go wrong, than to go right. It's a real bad idea imo.
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May 9, 2019 23:29
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You can always just discharge your gun blindly through the front door to deter those annoying late-night drunks knocking on the wrong door.
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May 9, 2019 23:29
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Liquid Communism posted:Hey, if you were a cop, you could walk into your neighbor's place and shoot them to death for being black in their own apartment because you thought they were a burglar! I've dealt with too many cops in my career as it is. I'm just glad I don't have to try to teach them anymore. angryrobots posted:I think if you witness someone actively stealing from you, presenting a weapon and telling them to stop stealing, should not be a crime. What happens from there depends on their response, and you had better not make the wrong snap decision. See, that's the problem. You just escalated the gently caress out of that situation for no good reason. If you're shooting at someone that has your stuff, you're also shooting at your stuff. It obviously can't be something you care about that much. Like, if someone was in the process of stealing my car and I shot them, best case, I now have a car with a bullet hole and blood stains. Worst case, they are now trying to run me over with my own car. This is not a better situation. KillHour fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 9, 2019 |
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May 9, 2019 23:31
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Previa_fun posted:I never liked the "defend my property" line because if you're willing to kill another human being over property you're a loving psychopath. KillHour posted:No, it doesn't. Killing people over property is wrong and should be considered murder, full stop. I guess the US should never have fought for independence. After all, it's just property and liberty!
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May 9, 2019 23:46
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Or you can use your gun to protect yourself from a no knock warrant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guerena_shooting
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May 9, 2019 23:46
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Is it June yet? I want to change the chat thread. So I’m all in on land cruiser right now. Initially the next step after the wheels and tires which look sick as heck was going to be sliders and a cool bumper buuut after seeing how easy it is for my kids to use the stock side steps and that I have plenty of clearance for the off roading I am doing the stock steps are staying. Bumper was going to be this month but I think I want a roof rack to support a roof tent and start doing some camping stuff this summer. Roof tents seem nice for glamping which is my ideal; but Mrs Heroic is resistant. We haven’t ever done camping. My older kids are getting older and our baby is 2. She thinks the baby is too small and it would be too hard to keep track of him. I’m not so sure that’s the case. Living in Utah we have access to a squillion acres of public land and great camping. I can go a number of great places in less than two hours from my house and exploring for Friday night one day camping and hiking Saturday’s sounds like a way I want to spend summer. Help me AI convince the wife that ~$2k on a setup like that is cool and reasonable.
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May 9, 2019 23:56
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The Prong Song posted:I guess the US should never have fought for independence. After all, it's just property and liberty! Man, you've backed yourself into a weird corner there.
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May 9, 2019 23:59
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KillHour posted:Man, you've backed yourself into a weird corner there. I mean, I try to stay civil, but when folks go deep into the zone, what can you do? This is why people talk about the ever-widening gap between the left and right, the radicalization. You can't have a nice discussion, someone feels the need to go to the extreme; seemingly-inarguable statements like "defending your property makes you a psychopath" and "being willing to kill to stop someone stealing is MURDER straight up, no arguments" start getting thrown around, and at that point it's just monkeys flinging poo. If a person is willing to put the lives of a stranger robbing them above themselves and defense of their property, let 'em. Nobody hates Ghandi ('cept maybe the British). But don't try to act like it's a morally and ethically superior ground to take. And don't try to act like not agreeing makes the other person a (insert some intentionally extreme, loaded insult word here). You're not in the right legally with either of those statements, and more importantly there's very little moral or ethical ground to stand on way out on that island.
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May 10, 2019 00:10
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Gun chat is almost always a pretty pointless exercise, especially in the modern political climate where people assume liking guns = right wing. Like that pic above in this thread that says that house with a ton of guns was owned by a white supremacist - it got 13k retweets, and the guy just made that part up. People call him on it and his defense was "I haven't seen anything saying he wasn't a white supremacist."
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May 10, 2019 00:22
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The Prong Song posted:I mean, I try to stay civil, but when folks go deep into the zone, what can you do? This is why people talk about the ever-widening gap between the left and right, the radicalization. You can't have a nice discussion, someone feels the need to go to the extreme; seemingly-inarguable statements like "defending your property makes you a psychopath" and "being willing to kill to stop someone stealing is MURDER straight up, no arguments" start getting thrown around, and at that point it's just monkeys flinging poo. I'm not arguing in bad faith, I literally believe those things I said and it's not a remotely radical position. You shouldn't be killed for robbing somebody, and yes, I think people who would kill somebody for that are bad people. I just do. You don't have a right to kill somebody to protect stuff. Stuff just isn't that important. Edit: You're right about one thing, though. There is an ocean between us. I see your stance on the issue as absolutely barbaric and indefensible. KillHour fucked around with this message at 00:38 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 00:30
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Elviscat posted:You can always just discharge your gun blindly through the front door to deter those annoying late-night drunks knocking on the wrong door. Or you could discharge blindly though the door at a 12 yo trick-or-treater.
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May 10, 2019 01:02
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KillHour posted:You don't have a right to kill somebody to protect stuff. Stuff just isn't that important. What if you're someone who doesn't trust banks and has their entire life's savings under their mattress, and you're old enough you're not going back to work?
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May 10, 2019 01:06
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MomJeans420 posted:What if you're someone who doesn't trust banks and has their entire life's savings under their mattress, and you're old enough you're not going back to work? And you also don't have homeowner's/renter's insurance for some reason? We should have a robust social safety net to prevent you from being destitute in that case. If you have to come up with contrived examples to try to get me to agree to an exception, you're not exactly on solid footing there. KillHour fucked around with this message at 01:15 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 01:12
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The problem with people kicking in your door and invading your house is you don’t know what they are going to do. What are you supposed to do ask them if they want something? If someone Breaks into my house with me in it sorry they are fair game. However if someone was on my property stealing poo poo I would not shoot at them for fear of killing them, no piece of property is worth that.
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May 10, 2019 01:17
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Applebees Appetizer posted:The problem with people kicking in your door and invading your house is you don’t know what they are going to do. What are you supposed to do ask them if they want something? If someone Breaks into my house with me in it sorry they are fair game. However if someone was on my property stealing poo poo I would not shoot at them for fear of killing them, no piece of property is worth that. The problem with shooting at the people kicking down your door is when you end up like that guy a few posts ago that got killed by a SWAT team that had the wrong house. Or you go to jail forever for killing a cop. Or you turn someone who was just trying to steal your poo poo into someone who is now going to kill you. Or you accidentally shoot your kid sneaking in late at night. The solution to all of that is to get rid of the drat guns.
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May 10, 2019 01:19
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STR posted:Go hug your doggos, guys. My parents boarded their dog when they came to visit a couple of weeks ago. He walked into the boarding place, and had to be carried out. He hasn't been able to walk since then. They don't think the staff did anything wrong, as their regular long-time vet runs the place; mom was suspecting he fell and broke a hip (he's been prone to falling a lot for the past couple of years). Yesterday he was whining a lot and panting, obviously in a lot of pain. Sorry man. I had to put my dog down last week. I can't imagine what coming back to that must feel like.
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May 10, 2019 01:19
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KillHour posted:The problem with shooting at the people kicking down your door is when you end up like that guy a few posts ago that got killed by a SWAT team that had the wrong house. Or you go to jail forever for killing a cop. Or you turn someone who was just trying to steal your poo poo into someone who is now going to kill you. Or you accidentally shoot your kid sneaking in late at night. The solution to all of that is to get rid of the drat guns. I agree that’s the solution but we’re not living in that fantasy land are we. Feel free to let people walk into your house to take whatever they want, offer them lemonade too. But I’m not gonna wait around to see if they just want my tv or are looking to kidnap my child I can’t afford to give some rear end in a top hat that kind of leeway.
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May 10, 2019 01:35
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Applebees Appetizer posted:I agree that’s the solution but we’re not living in that fantasy land are we. Feel free to let people walk into your house to take whatever they want, offer them lemonade too. But I’m not gonna wait around to see if they just want my tv or are looking to kidnap my child I can’t afford to give some rear end in a top hat that kind of leeway. The vast majority of break-ins are crimes of opportunity and they normally occur during the day while people are at work. Burglars don't want to run into homeowners and nobody is trying to kidnap your kid (and if they were, they wouldn't do it at your house - they would follow them until they found an opportunity). The best thing you can do, statistically, is have an alarm system and advertise it. Those signs actually do work. A gun isn't particularly helpful. Roughly half of burglars are armed, but only ~25% of breakins with the owners home result in injuries. If you have a gun, that 25% is about to shoot up to drat near 100% and you best not miss. You're going to be surprised, scared, and if it's late at night probably disoriented. You are at a huge disadvantage there. Not to mention, a gun is supposed to be locked in a safe and unloaded. Good luck getting to it in the dark without being caught. You're way better off using that time to quietly call the police and hide. My literal career is analyzing risk for things like intruders and active shooters. Bringing a(nother) gun into the equation is always going to increase the risk. KillHour fucked around with this message at 01:53 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 01:49
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KillHour posted:And you also don't have homeowner's/renter's insurance for some reason? We should have a robust social safety net to prevent you from being destitute in that case. If you have to come up with contrived examples to try to get me to agree to an exception, you're not exactly on solid footing there. Not really contrived, a lot of people (usually immigrants) tend to keep all their money on them for some reason, look into all the asset forfeiture cases. Now look at how much case your homeowner's insurance policy limits for stolen cash. If you live in a place like the US that doesn't have a strong social safety net (free health care, etc), stealing from someone can be effectively like killing them. People that drive slow in the fast/passing lane are effectively stealing minutes of your life at a time too, and yes, they should also be put to death. I'm not advocating killing someone in response to all/most theft, but it's not hard to find times where it may be the appropriate answer.
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May 10, 2019 01:58
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MomJeans420 posted:Not really contrived, a lot of people (usually immigrants) tend to keep all their money on them for some reason, look into all the asset forfeiture cases. I'm aware of this. My MIL is a first generation immigrant and she keeps her savings under the mattress, even though we keep yelling at her not to. Even if someone broke into her apartment and stole all the money from her mattress, I would not want that person to be killed. Money can be replaced and you can't throw up your hands and say "We have no power to improve society! We may as well just kill people for stealing our horse like it's the 18th century." quote:If you live in a place like the US that doesn't have a strong social safety net (free health care, etc), stealing from someone can be effectively like killing them. If we ever got enough votes to ban guns here, we could easily fix this. The side that wants all the guns is also the side against strong safety nets. quote:Now look at how much case your homeowner's insurance policy limits for stolen cash. This is a fair point and I knew that, but didn't think of it for some reason. Still, if we removed the ability for people to attempt to protect their property through extrajudicial killing, there might be political will to find a more reasonable way to reimburse people. KillHour fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 02:02
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I don’t want to kill anyone in fact I just want to be left alone. But if someone tries to kick my door down that will be the last thing they ever do. Happened before and the police told me to, not that is end all be all. Anyways let’s talk about cars again. Do y’all sees these vehicles I got coming?
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May 10, 2019 02:10
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KillHour posted:The best thing you can do, statistically, is have an alarm system and advertise it. Those signs actually do work. A gun isn't particularly helpful. What about a big barking dog?
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May 10, 2019 02:40
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KillHour posted:And you also don't have homeowner's/renter's insurance for some reason? We should have a robust social safety net to prevent you from being destitute in that case. If you have to come up with contrived examples to try to get me to agree to an exception, you're not exactly on solid footing there. Ehhhh... I've been burglarized twice and I really couldn't give a poo poo. One time I wasn't home and the other time I was in the shower. I heard them pry the door open and I yelled, "I'm naked and armed" and they just left with some poo poo that was right there in the living room. Still not sure which part of that scared them off. I've had people attempt to rob me at gunpoint and I feel like if you're willing to pull a gun on me then there's no telling what else you might do and I'd rather not wait to find out. But if you don't wave a gun in my face and just ask me for my wallet, I'll probably just give you my cards/cash and send you on your merry way. That being said I live in a place with a much lower crime rate now. I don't regularly carry a firearm and I definitely don't take it to work. I like shooting cans off rails and putting holes in paper, but I also voted for Obama and (reluctantly) Hillary. KillHour posted:You're going to be surprised, scared, and if it's late at night probably disoriented. You are at a huge disadvantage there. Not to mention, a gun is supposed to be locked in a safe and unloaded. Good luck getting to it in the dark without being caught. You're way better off using that time to quietly call the police and hide. Oh I'll definitely be hiding and calling the police, but I'll be doing it locked in my bedroom closet with my wife and a .40 If you're dumb enough to break down my bedroom door as I'm yelling "I have a loving gun, rear end in a top hat," then you probably aren't just there to rob the place and probably deserve to be shot. That being said, I can't imagine having to take another human being's life, even in self defense. That mush be horrible. How do you all feel about avocado toast? 
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May 10, 2019 02:50
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I love all you weirdos here but if someone tries to enter my home it will be the last thing they ever do. I got 2 little girls just how it is.
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May 10, 2019 03:16
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everdave posted:I don’t want to kill anyone in fact I just want to be left alone. But if someone tries to kick my door down that will be the last thing they ever do. Happened before and the police told me to, not that is end all be all. Anyways let’s talk about cars again. Do y’all sees these vehicles I got coming? Please repost them just so we get a final tally. Preferably with pictures. I'm cooking pancakes tomorrow morning for my students. Decided to cook a pan of bacon tonight so that I can be like Jake tomorrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUYSGojUuAU
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May 10, 2019 03:29
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