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The Door Frame posted:Why do we even have crit chance for ranged champs? +500 damage with a <1 second CD with no counter other than "don't get clicked on" is so bullshit Zhonyas, randuins, armor in general? Verviticus posted:the idea that every individual ability in the game requires counterplay is bad as poo poo Why?
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May 11, 2019 08:00
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its extremely and very pointlessly limiting. champions with strong point and click abilities exist and have existed and the game is still good and those champions are still good furthermore, those abilities are easier to use and league is one of the least approachable games in the world. limiting yourself to skillshot design makes it worse Invalid Validation posted:It’s boring like Mundos press button for health regen. Which is why they all need reworks. Not sure why they only can do one a year though. mundos least interesting skill is his loving q by a thousand miles. weird, because its his only skillshot! give me pantheon and his q infinity times over vs loving 3 second cleaver spam Verviticus fucked around with this message at 08:50 on May 11, 2019 |
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May 11, 2019 08:41
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I'm gonna vote Shyv or Voli. Probably Shyv because I'd rather have a new weird Shyv and uninteresting blob Voli than current Shyv and new weird Voli, Fiddles is the one I'd most like to see changed (most annoying to play against), but I dont trust Riot to not just make him even more annoying. (Cf Akali, Irelia) I agree that Mundo could use a minor update, but of the 5 he's the only one I really enjoy playing in his current state. Noct is fine as is IMO.
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May 11, 2019 10:27
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The only change needed for fiddle is to delete all skins except Surprise Party
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May 11, 2019 11:01
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Verviticus posted:its extremely and very pointlessly limiting. champions with strong point and click abilities exist and have existed and the game is still good and those champions are still good Alright, I think I see where you're going with this. In that case, let me ask you this: Would blitzcrank be overpowered if his Q was a point-and-click ability? Why or why not?
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May 11, 2019 13:22
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Umbreon posted:Alright, I think I see where you're going with this. In that case, let me ask you this: That's a silly question. "hey here's a champion who is balanced let's give him a massive buff and see what happens". But a universe is conceivable wherein a point-and-click Blitz Q does not make for an overpowered champion. Maybe it's a new type of projectile with an acquired target that can still be body-blocked. Maybe it moves literally 5 times slower. Maybe the range is short. This latest one is most likely, given the non-skillshot pulls we already have in the game (Singed, Voli, Thresh is halfway there with his almost instant-cast flay).
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May 11, 2019 13:41
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The systematic removal of point-and-click abilities is pretty lame in my opinion. It was one of the interesting things that differentiated characters and it's all a matter of taking the budget into account. Removing it weakens that, and I say this as someone whose most player champions have been Zyra, Cassiopeia and Syndra. But to answer the question posed to Verv: Umbreon posted:Would blitzcrank be overpowered if his Q was a point-and-click ability? Why or why not? Blitzcrank Q is an ability that does: * Exposes your champion to danger (Small Negative) * Removes control of the enemy champion (Plus) * Displaces the enemy champion from distance, and puts it closer to your team (Huge Plus and defining characteristic) The risk is: * Costs a lot of Mana * Anything can be targeted by it so you can miss easily * Has a cooldown big enough which makes your champion useless until it's back And given the kit, it's a champion-defining ability. Now, funnily enough, there was an ability that fulfilled this: * Displaces the enemy champion from distance, and puts it closer to your team It was an Ultimate ability by Urgot. And because it did not have the downsides from Blitzcrank's Q, the following adjustments were made: * Exposes BOTH champions to danger, for a longer period of time. * Also displaces your champion towards, likely, the enemy team. * Has an even larger cooldown So yeah, being point-and-click is obviously a plus and as such is accounted in the budget of a skill. Asking if Blitzcrank's Q would be overpowered if it was point-and-click is a disingenuous question - it obviously would. The difference is that in a world where Blitzcrank's Q is point-and-click several adjustments would have to be made, just like if you made his Q have a 5 AP Bonus Ratio, or pass through minions, or reach twice the distance.
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May 11, 2019 13:51
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Gunder posted:Is there a good recommended learning resource for people who have never really played League before? I have played about 640 hours of Dota 2, but never really League, so I'm familiar with a lot of the basic concepts, but not the stuff specific to League. your best bet is to play some bot games and find a champ you like, then look up some videos about playing that champ and what roles they go in. it's much easier to learn the game via one champ than to try to learn a bunch at once. so do some experimentation, decide on a champ, then let us know who you want to play and we can give some advice.
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May 11, 2019 14:06
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Umbreon posted:Why? because auto attacks do not have “counterplay” either so why are abilities suddenly evil for not being able to be dodged. it is just a design consideration. i will quote my post on twisting advance vs amumu bandage toss here however to explain how design considerations work, but first know that unit target abilities have one major limitation: they require line of sight. invis, brush, ducking around corners, all of these prevent unit target abilities.
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May 11, 2019 14:54
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pog boyfriend posted:maokais twisted advance, for instance, works because it hits a single person. if there is nothing to target, the ability is useless. meaning: you can use fog of war to avoid it, and gimp maokais mobility, and his mobility is tied to his range to people so he can be effectively kited. whereas a skillshot twisting advance could be used to arbitrarily move forward, adding to general mobility; to say that if it was a skillshot it would be "more balanced" is wrong, because the balance and counterplay of the ability is explicitly tied to it being a unit target ability. pog boyfriend posted:in other words, turn twisted advance into a very derivative version of amumu q? an ambitious idea, for sure, but then it would have to have an extremely fast projectile time due to twisted advance short range -- and at that point, why even bother? if you get the "skillshot" for just pointing your mouse in the general direction, how is that any different than a unit target? or should you increase the range of twisted advance?
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May 11, 2019 15:00
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a world where-in I can't dash+flash behind my turret when a silver maokai is twisted advancing on me, because the ability has been turned into a skillshot, is not a world I want to live in gently caress you for giving me trauma like that
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May 11, 2019 15:29
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Feisty-Cadaver posted:The only change needed for fiddle is to delete all skins except Surprise Party While I will agree that Surprise Party is his best skin, fiddles has some amazing looking skins and sometimes you just want a good chill game instead of tilting the entire enemy team every time you Q.
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May 11, 2019 16:05
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TheAnomaly posted:While I will agree that Surprise Party is his best skin, fiddles has some amazing looking skins and sometimes you just want a good chill game instead of tilting the entire enemy team every time you Q. Fiddles' best skin is the one where he's wearing a t-shirt with a misprinted union flag.
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May 11, 2019 17:19
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mummy fid's back animation is a good bm
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May 11, 2019 17:36
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You guys basically just reiterated riots reasoning for systematically getting rid of point and click abilities, especially ones with CC. Said abilities are extremely strong and eat up huge amounts of a champs power budget, which drastically reduces the cool and fun stuff that can be done with the rest of their kit. Y'all can argue about it and complain, but point and click cc and most ranged offensive point and click skills are on their way out regardless of your opinion on the matter, for the reasons listed above. Hell, I guarantee you if fid gets a rework, he's losing at least one point and click, if not more
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May 11, 2019 20:02
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As long as he still throws birds I'm OK with it.
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May 11, 2019 20:09
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To add skill expression, all point and click abilities will be similar to Lulu W or E so that you can gently caress up and miss your targeted CC and put it on a 16-second cooldown.
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May 11, 2019 20:30
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Fiddlesticks needs more crows. Every move should have a crow in it, and more crows should be added to the map. Crows.
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May 11, 2019 20:31
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The Deleter posted:Fiddlesticks needs more crows. Every move should have a crow in it, and more crows should be added to the map. Crows. Do it like Swain where crows just gather on the walls wherever Fiddle is.
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May 11, 2019 20:37
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njsykora posted:Do it like Swain where crows just gather on the walls wherever Fiddle is. Fiddlesticks, the Least Effective Scarecrow of All Time
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May 11, 2019 20:41
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If there's a Fiddlesticks, Swain should not be able to summon tiny crows.
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May 11, 2019 20:45
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Umbreon posted:You guys basically just reiterated riots reasoning for systematically getting rid of point and click abilities, especially ones with CC. Said abilities are extremely strong and eat up huge amounts of a champs power budget, which drastically reduces the cool and fun stuff that can be done with the rest of their kit. What makes "abilities" special? Why should Ryze's Q be turned into a skill-shot before Draven's or Jhin's autoattack? Or ohmygod-howcanIforget Ashe's autoattack, that one has CC on it!
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May 11, 2019 20:46
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Miftan posted:If there's a Fiddlesticks, Swain should not be able to summon tiny crows. He should deal .1% bonus damage to Swain
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May 11, 2019 21:05
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Umbreon posted:You guys basically just reiterated riots reasoning for systematically getting rid of point and click abilities, especially ones with CC. Said abilities are extremely strong and eat up huge amounts of a champs power budget, which drastically reduces the cool and fun stuff that can be done with the rest of their kit. Having one strong point and click ability is loving fine if that one ability is fun. If you took away Fiddle's silence but left everything else the same he'd be perfectly fine unless you're a big baby. If you took away Blitz knock-up and silence he'd still be fun because landing one grab would still give you a great feeling in your heart.
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May 11, 2019 21:05
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i would argue that pressing a button to watch master yi bolt away from you at lightspeed is very fun
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May 11, 2019 21:16
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Each character should have four skillshots, no CC, no heals, final destination.
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May 11, 2019 21:21
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Orv posted:Each character should have four skillshots, no CC, no heals, final destination. Foxfire Ahri ONLY
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May 11, 2019 21:25
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njsykora posted:Do it like Swain where crows just gather on the walls wherever Fiddle is. add a skarner mini-game but only when fiddle and swain are in the same game where they get points for adding/removing crows
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May 11, 2019 22:02
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Umbreon posted:You guys basically just reiterated riots reasoning for systematically getting rid of point and click abilities, especially ones with CC. Said abilities are extremely strong and eat up huge amounts of a champs power budget, which drastically reduces the cool and fun stuff that can be done with the rest of their kit. pantheon has two abilities that are point and click and one of them is a stun and neither of them are so oppressively powerful that they make the rest of his kit not worth having or using quote:Y'all can argue about it and complain, but point and click cc and most ranged offensive point and click skills are on their way out regardless of your opinion on the matter, for the reasons listed above yes, and its a bad thing, and the point of this thread is discussion. i appreciate you telling me that i can talk about league in this thread though i am forgetful Verviticus fucked around with this message at 23:03 on May 11, 2019 |
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May 11, 2019 23:00
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The problem with Fiddle isn't that he's point and click - it's that anytime his E doesn't absolutely suck rear end, it's extremely oppressive to lane against, particularly in a duolane. It doesn't operate like fuckin any other skill I can remember in how it bounces. Brand's R logic is way, way more consistent for example. It's the quintessential 'point and click ability' that sucks because not only do you not have the ability to outplay it (and cannot just not go into minion range because then you loving lose lane), you have no ability to anticipate when it's properly safe to advance either if Fids hasn't E'd.
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May 12, 2019 00:43
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it prioritizes targets it hasnt hit and targets that are actively being drained and then i think its random. maybe make the initial missile speed slower so people have more time to get away from the minion pack? anyways i cant really speak to playing against fiddlesticks as a support. hes fun to have or play against as a jungler, though, and they'd maybe just be better served by making him a better jungler and/or a worse support instead of reworking him Verviticus fucked around with this message at 02:28 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 02:25
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Verviticus posted:it prioritizes targets it hasnt hit and targets that are actively being drained and then i think its random. maybe make the initial missile speed slower so people have more time to get away from the minion pack? It’s very hard to do that naturally when Riot arguably do want Fiddle to be playable in more than one role.
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May 12, 2019 02:42
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Umbreon posted:You guys basically just reiterated riots reasoning for systematically getting rid of point and click abilities, especially ones with CC. Said abilities are extremely strong and eat up huge amounts of a champs power budget, which drastically reduces the cool and fun stuff that can be done with the rest of their kit. what kind of stupid argument is that. nobody is saying "riot is not going to remove the unit target abilities", we are saying it is a bad thing if they do that.
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May 12, 2019 17:58
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pog boyfriend posted:what kind of stupid argument is that. nobody is saying "riot is not going to remove the unit target abilities", we are saying it is a bad thing if they do that. That's a statement, not an argument. I'm saying why they have been doing it and why they are going to continue to do it even if you think it's bad.
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May 12, 2019 22:35
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amazing insight... glad we've got you here.
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May 12, 2019 22:50
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This game would be unplayable garbage if everyone was ezreal. Targeted abilities and auto attacks are fine and there is a lot of skill expression in positioning, map awareness, teamfight awareness etc in champions that don't rely primarily on landing skillshots. Riot is only removing targeted abilities on champions that were tedious to deal with (old Shen Q, old Ryze everything, old irelia stun, etc.) If salty assassin players want to play an FPS nobody is stopping them.
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May 12, 2019 23:50
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Honestly I think Amumu needs more of an update than anyone else on that list. Everyone else has at least a niche depending on items and meta, every now and then Mundo and Shyvana can pubstomp, Nocturne can make a good enough Jungle assassin despite being a suicide missile, Fiddles can always fall in and out of relevance, and Volibear is the worst on the list because he's just a Trick2G style gimmick and doesn't fit with ANY of the lore and has a weird kit, but Amumu is usually just the most basic, "skillshot, Ultimate, spam ability" champions still in the game.
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May 13, 2019 01:06
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RealFoxy posted:Honestly I think Amumu needs more of an update than anyone else on that list. Everyone else has at least a niche depending on items and meta, every now and then Mundo and Shyvana can pubstomp, Nocturne can make a good enough Jungle assassin despite being a suicide missile, Fiddles can always fall in and out of relevance, and Volibear is the worst on the list because he's just a Trick2G style gimmick and doesn't fit with ANY of the lore and has a weird kit, but Amumu is usually just the most basic, "skillshot, Ultimate, spam ability" champions still in the game. it's good for basic but effective champions to stick around, the mummy's had a healthy slightly positive winrate every time I've checked
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May 13, 2019 01:13
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RealFoxy posted:Honestly I think Amumu needs more of an update than anyone else on that list. Everyone else has at least a niche depending on items and meta, every now and then Mundo and Shyvana can pubstomp, Nocturne can make a good enough Jungle assassin despite being a suicide missile, Fiddles can always fall in and out of relevance, and Volibear is the worst on the list because he's just a Trick2G style gimmick and doesn't fit with ANY of the lore and has a weird kit, but Amumu is usually just the most basic, "skillshot, Ultimate, spam ability" champions still in the game. amumu is perfectly fine you freaking bastard. how dare you. amumu is one of the more expressive champions in league of legends and has great build flexibility between full tank and full AP, who is easy to pick up but hard to master. there are so many small things in amumu play that skilled players can do to eke out extra power, using bandage toss as movement through the jungle opens up a lot of opportunities for the mummy, and managing his mana presents a real problem that constantly stays in your mind.
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May 13, 2019 02:32
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I don’t really care one way or the other about skillshots over click abilities. I think the mobility creep has been the most detrimental. It’s very hard to play someone without movement abilities unless they are overpowered. Every new champion has some mobility on them.
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May 13, 2019 03:04
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