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Darth Walrus posted:TeleSUR are a state-established, state-funded media organisation. Calling them 'anti-establishment' seems like a teeny bit of a stretch. The summed revenue of American Media Conglomerates is greater than the entire GDP of Venezuela. The decision making process at these conglomerates are all made by a handful of well-connected and influential billionaires. But yeah, you're right. The state-funded media organisations are biased propaganda that exist only to serve the political establishment of Venezuela et al. The only media organisations should take on the immensely powerful american hegemony have to be from some independent journalist who started a blog
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May 12, 2019 15:07
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Kindest Forums User posted:The summed revenue of American Media Conglomerates is greater than the entire GDP of Venezuela. The decision making process at these conglomerates are all made by a handful of well-connected and influential billionaires. We're talking about news reportage from inside Venezuela, where you should absolutely be looking for independent Venezuelan journalists rather than uncritically taking the official government line - the resources linked to in this article, like VE Sin Filtro, Que Esta Pasando, and Servicio de Informacion Publica, may be good places to start looking. Suggesting that teleSUR, an organisation founded and funded by the literal Venezuelan establishment, is not providing establishment reporting on Venezuela is some really weird colonial arrogance that illustrates the sheer depth of disinterest several posters ITT have in the country they're discussing.
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May 12, 2019 15:40
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Kindest Forums User posted:The summed revenue of American Media Conglomerates is greater than the entire GDP of Venezuela. The decision making process at these conglomerates are all made by a handful of well-connected and influential billionaires. How much time do you think Billionaires devote to dictating the reporting that goes on in their newsrooms?
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May 12, 2019 16:13
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If that is not the stupidest possible response to the concern raised, it's definitely up there.
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May 12, 2019 16:16
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Kawasaki Nun posted:How much time do you think Billionaires devote to dictating the reporting that goes on in their newsrooms? they don't have to dictate anything other than what type of person is employed there once you've got your rachel maddows, wolf blitzers and jake tappers in place you're set
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May 12, 2019 16:24
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Public newsrooms bad (unless npr/BBC), oligarch newsrooms good. E: the idea that "independent" non-public US media wouldn't heavily editorialize and even fabricate causus belli for wars is just absurd, from the rise of yellow journalism in the 19th century up through at least the Iraq war. The second one. Of course telesur has biases. Those absolutely need to be taken into consideration. But blindly trusting US oligarchical media outlets is just as bad if not worse, because those still have an extremely thin veneer of *objectivity*. Multiple other posters have made a point that it's hard to get reliable, unbiased information out of Venezuela from any outlet at this point. Pretending that the NYT is trustworthy when it comes to foreign policy interests of the United States is hilariously naive, at best. brugroffil fucked around with this message at 16:46 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 16:41
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Telesur would never publish conspiracy theories. https://www.facebook.com/teleSURvideos/videos/496797484020495/
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May 12, 2019 16:48
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Telesur publishes state propaganda because it is run by people who benefit from promulgating state propaganda but who may or may not personally believe it themselves. This is dishonest and wrong. The New York Times publishes state propaganda because it is run by people who benefit from promulgating state propaganda, and who are dumb enough to believe it themselves. This is honest and right.
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May 12, 2019 16:55
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Darth Walrus posted:We're talking about news reportage from inside Venezuela, where you should absolutely be looking for independent Venezuelan journalists rather than uncritically taking the official government line - the resources linked to in this article, like VE Sin Filtro, Que Esta Pasando, and Servicio de Informacion Publica, may be good places to start looking. Suggesting that teleSUR, an organisation founded and funded by the literal Venezuelan establishment, is not providing establishment reporting on Venezuela is some really weird colonial arrogance that illustrates the sheer depth of disinterest several posters ITT have in the country they're discussing. What do you suggest Venezuala do about "establishment" media like teleSUR. Dismantle it and leave the reporting to the "independent" journalists? That sounds pretty stupid when you put it in the context of Venezuala. Because if I was a Venezuelan, and I fought for the Bolivarian revolution and democratically elected someone who represents my sacrifice and values, I would probably want a media organisation that represents the will of the people. And when you consider your nation is in a defacto cold war with the most aggressive and violent nation in the world, and the cia, with their unlimited budget, will do anything to convince "independent" journalists to become mouthpieces for them. I would want a media organisation that is an actual institution, that is a part of the government that I voted for. Rather than solely rely on independent journalists that are accountable to no one but themselves. Yeah, teleSUR and Maduro have their problems. And yeah, independent journalists are an important counter balance to corruption and counterrevolutionaries within the government. But you are the arrogant colonialist gently caress (or bourgeois if youre Venezuelan) who dismisses a media organisation that was born from the blood and sacrifice of a popular movement that demanded sovereignty, justice, and equality.
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May 12, 2019 16:57
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the venezuelan private media straight up collaborated in the 2002 coup with barefaced lies and manipulated videos but they're private so it's fine I guess, let's destroy any media that doesn't broadcast live from Langley 24/7
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May 12, 2019 17:07
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Venezuela has had literally twenty years, a single generation, to develop it's institutions, all the while fighting off Uncle Sam. What the gently caress do you expect? Perfection? It's like youre anxiously sitting at a control center that displays every misstep a revolutionary state makes, and with one hand over a big red button that says "BOMBS". teleSUR appoints a government insider as their head? BOMB EM!!! Maduro eats too many empanadas? BOMB EM!!! Inflation? BOMB EM!!! Corrupt Government Official? BOMB EM!!!
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May 12, 2019 17:16
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Kindest Forums User posted:Listen, bud, I think it would be pretty silly to look at teleSUR and any other media organisation without a critical eye. But teleSUR serves a vital role for Venezuela and the Bolivarian revolution. You know, it's only in the Venezuelan thread that you see someone get so het up about something they know so little about. What mechanisms do the Venezuelan public presently have for making their government and its media accountable? What evidence do you have that a government engaging in one of the most severe journalistic crackdowns in recent years represents 'the will of the people'? What has the Maduro regime done to improve sovereignty, justice, and equality for the Venezuelan public in the past seven years? Why did you decide to stroll in here and pretend you know any of this poo poo?
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May 12, 2019 17:22
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dirty lousy tramp posted:they don't have to dictate anything other than what type of person is employed there So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system?
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May 12, 2019 17:29
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? The fact that you're asking this suggests you don't pay any attention at all to American MSM because lol yes of course that's what happens.
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May 12, 2019 17:31
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kidkissinger posted:The fact that you're asking this suggests you don't pay any attention at all to American MSM because lol yes of course that's what happens. So presumably the release of the Panama papers was an intentional release on the part of the world elite that was carried because they wanted people to know? There have been tons of other major releases that don't conform to this notion you're presenting that the msm in the USA is the willing supplicant to the outrageously wealthy.
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May 12, 2019 17:32
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Juan Guaidó, what will you do? Surrender to your enemy or wait for your "ally" to dispose of you first?
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May 12, 2019 17:33
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? I mean, that is kind of true, even if they're softer and more subtle about it than, say, your average dictatorship. It's very easy to be gently squeezed out of the industry if you're the wrong 'culture fit'. You not up on the gory details of the US media industry?
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May 12, 2019 17:33
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So presumably the release of the Panama papers was an intentional release on the part of the world elite that was carried because they wanted people to know? The Panama Papers were released to a German newspaper, dude.
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May 12, 2019 17:35
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? They hire people with similar class interests. They can be on the 'left' or 'right' as long as at the end of the day they're petit-bourgeois or bourgeois.
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May 12, 2019 17:35
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, that is kind of true, even if they're softer and more subtle about it than, say, your average dictatorship. It's very easy to be gently squeezed out of the industry if you're the wrong 'culture fit'. You not up on the gory details of the US media industry? Well like another posted pointed out it's a fairly massive industry that, while the major outlets are controlled by a relative few, still consists of the operation of hundreds of different outlets.
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May 12, 2019 17:35
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Darth Walrus posted:The Panama Papers were released to a German newspaper, dude. And carried by every major msm outlet with significant analysis and editorials?
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May 12, 2019 17:36
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Kawasaki Nun posted:And carried by every major msm outlet with significant analysis and editorials? After Suddeutsche Zeitung made them a giant international news story, yes. Being willing to carry a story is not the same as being willing to break it.
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May 12, 2019 17:38
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-34-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-msnbc In this episode an anonymous former MSNBC employee comes on and admits that all they do is chase ratings and that talking things like Venezuela, Yemen, etc and the bad effects of imperialism bums people out and doesn't get good ratings, while stuff like Russiagate gets fantastic ratings. https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-61-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-msnbc-part-ii-a-rebuttal In this follow up, a current MSNBC employee comes on to try to defend the network from the accusations laid in the first episode, admits that all they do is chase ratings and they don't air stuff about Venezuela, Yemen, etc and the bad effects of imperialism because it bums people out and doesn't get good ratings, while stuff like Russiagate gets fantastic ratings. When the hosts push back and say "Well that seems like a bad way to be a news channel" he accuses them of being immature and not knowing what it takes to run a big successful business like MSNBC. At one point he says something along the lines of "If you tried to say that the military made a mistake, you would be laughed out of the room" when discussing pre-production meetings. It was an extremely enlightening look into how hosed up the mainstream media culture is when it comes to defending US imperialism in places like Venezuela, even from the more "progressive" side of the media.
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May 12, 2019 17:39
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And as we all know the Panama papers led to substantive tax reform that saw the complete collapse of tax havens. It resulted in some egg on people's faces. It wasn't a threat to them at all and the story probably made a poo poo-ton.
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May 12, 2019 17:42
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Yes they printed lies that killed a half million people and all but admit that if you criticize the US military you're out on your rear end, but they also didn't completely ignore an unrelated thing so I guess it's all good and we can trust the corporate media on their newest war venture
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May 12, 2019 17:43
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? I'm not "under the impression", I'm describing reality to you. That's how corporate media works, and that's why there aren't any leftist firebrands in there but you have people desecrating Leonard Cohen songs in order to glorify killing machine launches.
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May 12, 2019 17:43
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Right I'm not trying to say the msm works well or serves it purpose or anything else. I'm simply trying to illustrate how there on constraints in a competitive media system that are absent for state run media. Everyone equivicaring between SUR and the NYT seems to be conveniently if ignoring how these factors function in reporting within the USA
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May 12, 2019 17:44
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:And as we all know the Panama papers led to substantive tax reform that saw the complete collapse of tax havens. Also one of the key journalists who did the investigations was literally murdered two steps outside her home in Malta by the typical mafia method of the carbomb.
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May 12, 2019 17:44
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wasn't it in this literal thread the other day someone brought up Manufacturing Consent where the NYT used Cheney as a source for propaganda and then allowed that story to be used by Cheney as if he wasn't the source all to keep access? They're evil, not just stupid and lovely but actively a danger to human life.
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May 12, 2019 17:48
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:And as we all know the Panama papers led to substantive tax reform that saw the complete collapse of tax havens. That's a failure of society, not the media. That Joe Blow is disinterested in things that aren't racist or imperialist doesn't mean they don't get examined or reported on, it just means they aren't above the fold.
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May 12, 2019 17:49
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Darth Walrus posted:What has the Maduro regime done to improve sovereignty, justice, and equality for the Venezuelan public in the past seven years? Darth Walrus posted:You know, it's only in the Venezuelan thread that you see someone get so het up about something they know so little about. What mechanisms do the Venezuelan public presently have for making their government and its media accountable? What evidence do you have that a government engaging in one of the most severe journalistic crackdowns in recent years represents 'the will of the people'? teleSUR and the Bolivarian movement are supposed to be for the will of the people. It's in their frigging constitution. It's what the people fought for. And now the people are armed and willing to defend the Bolivarian movement. If Maduro and teleSUR degrade into a bourgeoise institution that only exist to defend the rich and powerful. The conditions of the people will deteriorate and they will realize that their leader has betrayed them. And they will oust the government. Kinda like how Guiado tried, except he only had the rich, and few hundred military men, and Uncle Sam to help him. Not a popular movement. Not successful. An armed popular movement will be successful.
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May 12, 2019 17:50
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It's fine to be a propaganda outlet as long as it's not official, as long as you can couch it in velvet language where the CIA and the State Department are "sources" and getting your marching orders is "contacting X for comment". You can be wrong over and over and over again, lie over and over and over again and help psychos commit mass murder over and over and over again, as long as you're deemed "respected" it's all fine. But if you're honest about what you're doing you get designated "state propaganda".
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May 12, 2019 17:50
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Right I'm not trying to say the msm works well or serves it purpose or anything else. I'm simply trying to illustrate how there on constraints in a competitive media system that are absent for state run media. there aren't any constraints, you're making them up and ignoring reality nyt is worse than telesur because telesur's influence is miniscule compared to the murderous times and its audience and telsur is more trustworthy, even if it's state propaganda (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 12, 2019 17:52
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? No I'm sure they write fluff pieces on how well-dressed today's Nazis are because it's literally impossible to find a single journalistic talent in America who doesn't swoon over Richard Spencer's ties. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 12, 2019 17:52
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dirty lousy tramp posted:It's fine to be a propaganda outlet as long as it's not official, as long as you can couch it in velvet language where the CIA and the State Department are "sources" and getting your marching orders is "contacting X for comment". You can be wrong over and over and over again, lie over and over and over again and help psychos commit mass murder over and over and over again, as long as you're deemed "respected" it's all fine. Are you okay buddy? You seem to be having a moment VitalSigns posted:No I'm sure they write fluff pieces on how well-dressed today's Nazis are because it's literally impossible to find a single journalistic talent in America who doesn't swoon over Richard Spencer's ties. I've seen quite a few articles on the insidious nature of the alt right. Dozens in 2015, and even more in the years that followed. Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 17:56 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 17:52
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Kawasaki Nun posted:That's a failure of society, not the media. That Joe Blow is disinterested in things that aren't racist or imperialist doesn't mean they don't get examined or reported on, it just means they aren't above the fold. It's why the story was allowed to be published. It likely served the interests of a section of the ruling class to gently caress over some of the people named and they knew it wouldn't have any structural impact beyond that.
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May 12, 2019 17:53
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Kawasaki Nun posted:That's a failure of society, not the media. That Joe Blow is disinterested in things that aren't racist or imperialist doesn't mean they don't get examined or reported on, it just means they aren't above the fold. You can literally defend state media the exact same way. "Well I guess the public just cared more about the war we sensationalized in 96-point headlines for 10 months than the story on elite corruption that we buried below the fold, we have no professional or ethical responsibility whatsoever"
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May 12, 2019 17:56
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:It's why the story was allowed to be published. It likely served the interests of a section of the ruling class to gently caress over some of the people named and they knew it wouldn't have any structural impact beyond that. Yes, there it is.
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May 12, 2019 17:56
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Kawasaki Nun posted:That's a failure of society, not the media. That Joe Blow is disinterested in things that aren't racist or imperialist doesn't mean they don't get examined or reported on, it just means they aren't above the fold. That's a good point. When NY times published the story on WMDs, it wasn't their fault, it was the society's fault for willingly digesting that information. I guess society is hosed man. that's hosed up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 12, 2019 17:56
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Yes, there it is. Yes where is what?
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May 12, 2019 17:57
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