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Not that Sylvanas's talents were good before, mind you. The rework just made her worse.
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May 10, 2019 14:07
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I haven't tried Sylvanas yet, will give her a spin today.
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May 10, 2019 14:13
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People liked Sylvanas' dumb old kit. She was so popular. Just change black arrows to halve structure rate of fire or something if it was really a problem. She never really bothered me that much tbh (because sylvanas players were in general especially bad).
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May 10, 2019 14:15
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Sylvannas was so good Rip in peace
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May 10, 2019 16:04
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Diablo's rework is really good if you disregard the inevitable balance issues it had early on. He's a snowbally initiator with high damage for his role who just goes hard and terrifies squishies. Sylvanas had one of the most fluid kits in the game and was a delight to play. While her passive was complete bullshit and had to go, she really played like a ranger should, weaving in and out of the fight without feeling unfair thanks to her slow and telegraphed (thus balanced) blink. Her kit was easy to understand and pick up for a beginner, easy to read in the middle of a fight, and offered a high enough ceiling to let the great Sylvanas players shine. So of course they decided to make her Q a lot less flexible, thus worse, added a lovely 3 AA gimmick on a hero with low HP, lowish range and a slow escape and stopped her W from spreading unless you right click the target, removing her one and only safe damage option in teamfights. 
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May 10, 2019 16:43
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Old W build had a bad influence on the game because it got too safe (and insanely spammy) with talents, but that doesn't mean she warranted that level of changes. The solution should have been a talent tree overhaul without touching her core kit (save for maybe some tweaks to her trait), not a total overhaul. A lot of the changes seem like they were made for the sake of it.
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May 10, 2019 19:16
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Kith posted:A lot of the changes seem like they were made for the sake of it. I feel this way about most of the major recent overhauls
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May 10, 2019 19:33
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Just delete the ranged assassins?
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May 10, 2019 19:40
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Imagine 10 Arthas freezing each other, forever
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May 10, 2019 20:41
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Eraflure posted:Imagine 10 Arthas freezing each other, forever I see you played brawl with me recently 
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May 10, 2019 21:04
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Eraflure posted:Imagine 10 Arthas freezing each other, forever chilling!
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May 10, 2019 21:34
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SKULL.GIF posted:Illidan is still straight busted in QM as there's barely any coordination to work against him. Just gotta ignore for a few minutes your team crying that you aren't joining teamfights with your earth-shattering 80 damage at level 3 as you build stacks and soak XP. Once you get The Hunt then you can just join every single fight, soak up a couple more damage stacks, and then go back to farming waves and camps. I havent kept up - whats changed with illidan?
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May 10, 2019 22:51
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any EU folks got a recruit code I can use?
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May 11, 2019 12:10
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Eraflure posted:Diablo's rework is really good if you disregard the inevitable balance issues it had early on. He's a snowbally initiator with high damage for his role who just goes hard and terrifies squishies. Eraflure posted:Diablo's rework is really good if you disregard the inevitable balance issues it had early on. He's a snowbally initiator with high damage for his role who just goes hard and terrifies squishies. Eraflure posted:Diablo's rework is really good if you disregard the inevitable balance issues it had early on. He's a snowbally initiator with high damage for his role who just goes hard and terrifies squishies. For real though old Sylvanas played so smoothly with wind runner. They should have made that baseline and encouraged the playstyle because it was fair and cool.
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May 11, 2019 17:40
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new Sylvanas owns and is cool + good. No I will not be answering questions
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May 11, 2019 23:49
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Yeah I loved old sylv in all of her builds but I don't think I've played the new one after a couple games to try her out. Just doesn't feel as good.
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May 11, 2019 23:54
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Old Syl was a dull afk lane pusher, at least now she can do damage. Of course every game is still Syl players wandering off to plink a tower and get ganked over and over.
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May 12, 2019 04:23
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Old Syl was a dull afk lane pusher, at least now she can do damage. You never played sylv the fun way. She could win 1v1s a lot of the time with good banshee waves.
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May 12, 2019 06:13
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Old Syl was a dull afk lane pusher, at least now she can do damage. I won't argue that, but I wish she could've gotten the "does damage" upgrade without loving up how smooth her Q and W felt.
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May 12, 2019 07:53
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current syl seems kind of like "gimmicky raynor" to me, but also i never really enjoyed playing as or against old syl, and also i don't really enjoy playing as or against new syl either
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May 12, 2019 08:06
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Excelsiortothemax posted:I’ve been loving Greymane. Just wanted to say thanks, finally got a handle on wolfy boi with this! Playing him without a healer feels truly awful though, I wish qm would make them mandatory.
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May 12, 2019 12:44
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There was a period of time that was like that once I think everyone except me hated it
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May 12, 2019 14:29
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I don't play this game much anymore but my best memories from it were QM games where I was stuck solo laning with Valla, not the "proper comps" the devs leaned more and more into as the game died.
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May 12, 2019 16:23
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ninjewtsu posted:There was a period of time that was like that once I liked it and its removal was one of the reasons I pretty much lost interest in hots.
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May 12, 2019 16:33
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Kith posted:I won't argue that, but I wish she could've gotten the "does damage" upgrade without loving up how smooth her Q and W felt. While it was satisfying to hold down Q and just go to town on a minion wave or a hero thanks to the sound and graphical effects, the fact that her entire loop was throw W -> hold down Q -> maybe do something fancy with E was kind of a crappy design. I do agree that W is a lot clunkier now, especially with the quest. She also has the problem where her passive stacks don't show on anything but heroes even though it affects everything, despite having a number of situations where having that information would be useful. All that said IMO if there's a place where her rework really fell down it's the talents. They feel like a confusing grab-bag of effects and bonuses that are then further gated by the limitations of her AA range/passive, how Q works, and of course the changes to W. So even when you take all of the good talents you still feel like you have to bust your rear end to actually get something out of them. Also I still don't understand what the benefit is supposed to be of Remorseless' free Withering Fire shot applying Banshee's Curse when it only activates when attacking a target that's already at 3 stacks. 
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 18:51
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It almost feels like the designers didn't like the idea of the current Horde War-chief was just a non-participating lane pusher. like they changed her for the sake of changing her without much of an idea what they wanted her kit to be.
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May 12, 2019 19:21
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John Murdoch posted:Also I still don't understand what the benefit is supposed to be of Remorseless' free Withering Fire shot applying Banshee's Curse when it only activates when attacking a target that's already at 3 stacks. It launches a shot from the 3 stack target to the closest enemy hero, putting a stack on them. It let's you spread stacks to secondary targets. Good for her level 1 autoattack talent, or if you took the quest and aren't using wave to spread stacks. Tangentially, Q build is great on Blackheart.
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May 12, 2019 19:43
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LightWarden posted:It launches a shot from the 3 stack target to the closest enemy hero, putting a stack on them. It let's you spread stacks to secondary targets. Good for her level 1 autoattack talent, or if you took the quest and aren't using wave to spread stacks. Then wow they hosed up the talent description because that's not what it sounds like at all. That actually sounds cool.
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May 12, 2019 22:55
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Ronnie posted:It almost feels like the designers didn't like the idea of the current Horde War-chief was just a non-participating lane pusher. like they changed her for the sake of changing her without much of an idea what they wanted her kit to be. I think the new design is basically to get rid of all lane pushers and make regular team fights the focus. Which might have come from a well-intentioned place but I think they did more harm than good since it eliminated so many parts of the game that were unique to HOTS.
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May 12, 2019 23:34
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They're not getting rid of lane-pushers explicitly, they're just trying to make them better at things that are not specifically lane pushing. Which, to maintain their balance of power, means they're losing a lot of their lane-pushing strength.
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May 13, 2019 00:23
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Kith posted:They're not getting rid of lane-pushers explicitly, they're just trying to make them better at things that are not specifically lane pushing. There's just a lot of different effects that are working together to make the heroes much more homogeneous. They despecialized the specialists to focus them on the teamfights, while also weakening the creeps so that the games didn't take longer. This also meant that there was less single-laning overall, which reduced the value of a lot of the assassins and bruisers who then needed to be adjusted for the new design. Then some of the maps were adjusted as well, further focusing attention on teamfights. In the end a lot of the characters have lost their uniqueness, the few holdouts like Abathur and TLV struggle to maintain relevance, and the diversity of play has become reduced since hero selection doesn't really do much to adjust map strategies. It's not like it's unplayable or anything, but I do think it's difficult to justify this wholesale re-envisioning that has taken up so much of the dev focus over the last year. I assume there was a vocal population somewhere that was clamoring for team fights to be the single deciding factor in the game, but to my mind the game has become more sterile as a result. Kaal fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 01:21
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Kaal posted:It's not like it's unplayable or anything, but I do think it's difficult to justify this wholesale re-envisioning that has taken up so much of the dev focus over the last year. I assume there was a vocal population somewhere that was clamoring for team fights to be the single deciding factor in the game, but to my mind the game has become more sterile as a result. They were just desperate and had to do something big in order to have any chance of continuing to develop the game. I almost think the rework was done purely to justify their jobs and delay the inevitable. Pretty clear they failed and just ended up loving up the game.
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May 13, 2019 03:35
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jzilla posted:They were just desperate and had to do something big in order to have any chance of continuing to develop the game. I almost think the rework was done purely to justify their jobs and delay the inevitable. Pretty clear they failed and just ended up loving up the game. I think this could really be the case. I honestly feel the best HOTS was before the ammo changes and they’ve been struggling to tune the feel of the game ever since then. It’s sad because there are some really great ideas in HOTS, the short game times, global XP, great hero designs, fun map variety (remember summoners rift lol)... but the flow of the actual game hasn’t been as satisfying since.
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May 13, 2019 12:15
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Every single match, around the time heroic abilities kick in I get some pretty serious lag, then after that it runs smoothly again. Never has an issue running prior to that nor afterwards. Anyone else run into this?
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May 13, 2019 16:32
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That actually sounds really familiar. I feel like I remember a streamer having lag spikes so regular that they were predictable, but I can't remember what it was (time of day, or specific time in match.)
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May 13, 2019 16:47
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SKULL.GIF posted:Every single match, around the time heroic abilities kick in I get some pretty serious lag, then after that it runs smoothly again. Never has an issue running prior to that nor afterwards. Anyone else run into this? A long, long time ago. Like seven maps in pool time ago. Never understood why and it eventually sorted itself out.
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May 13, 2019 17:26
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I've been playing some Storm League lately, and why is Sylvanas so popular? Every time she's picked she seems totally impotent and never does anything meaningful or swingy to turn fights, other than I guess nailing a Wailing Arrow.
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May 14, 2019 21:32
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SKULL.GIF posted:I've been playing some Storm League lately, and why is Sylvanas so popular? Every time she's picked she seems totally impotent and never does anything meaningful or swingy to turn fights, other than I guess nailing a Wailing Arrow. I don’t know. Ever time I play against her I just munch her, she doesn’t really seem very threatening anymore.
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May 15, 2019 03:51
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If she stacks her w quest she's pretty good. But yeah I think it's just she's a sexy elf.
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May 15, 2019 03:52
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Sylvanas is a B+ish damage dealer who can get up to some really tricky business under the right circumstances. A lot of people play her trying to get their hands on those circumstances and often fall short because she's kinda clunky.
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May 15, 2019 05:44
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