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Barbarians are a great addition to the game. Just fought my first Chosen. Just 6 of them with no other units as back up, so I threw a dagger party and took them out quite handily. Didn't get any of the really cool helmets I was after though. Loads of weapon questions: - are the barbarian 2handed cleavers and axes any good? -I often read that flails are great mid game as you can crown enemies who don't wear helmets, and they ignore shield bonuses. But they seem quite flat? I can't seem to find any flails beyond the generic ones you see brigand raiders with quite early on. - are 1handed swords strictly worse than axes or hammers? Maces? I understand the utility of the special abilities, but no idea about how the maths of damage works out against armour. Cleavers? -final question, are daggers purely for backup or is it viable to have a shield and dagger bro shanking people up like a roman legionary?
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May 13, 2019 12:47
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Genghis Cohen posted:Barbarians are a great addition to the game. Just fought my first Chosen. Just 6 of them with no other units as back up, so I threw a dagger party and took them out quite handily. Didn't get any of the really cool helmets I was after though. Flails only have two tiers, the wooden flail and the regular one. On the other hand if you can reliably hit people in the head it'll make up for the lack of a third tier because you'll be doing critical damage more often. That being said, as you start facing enemies that wear good helmets they stop being good quickly, and if you specialize a bro in flails he'll be suboptimal in most fights by the lategame. Where they really shine is in the midgame when bandit raiders are your main source of armour, because almost inevitable a few raiders spawn without helmets in every fight, and if you can brain them before damaging their body at all then you get their armour intact. Once you're all decked out in raider-tier armour and don't need any more, though, flails lose their functionality because by that point raiders are no challenge so being able to one-shot one or two of them a fight isn't that big a deal. Swords have their uses, but that's true of all 1-handed weapons really. They're quite bad against armoured enemies but quite good against unarmoured ones, they get a +10 to hit, and they have some of the lowest fatigue costs of any 1-hander, which can make them good for bros whose fatigue or melee attack never quite gets to where you wanted it to be, but who's otherwise good enough that you want to keep him around. You can also find some quite good unique swords, which can turn a swordbro back into a top choice. Axes are good all-round, again especially for bros whose MAtk doesn't hit the highest of heights, because split shield never misses. Hammers are situational, they don't do much HP damage but they're fantastic against heavily-armoured enemies like orc warriors or knights, they'll save you multiple turns of bashing against their armour ineffectively. In other fights, hammer specialists can use a polehammer and be a backrow fighter, and still contribute a lot. Maces are imo one of the best weapons to specialize in because they do a good amount of damage, inflict bonus fatigue damage, and have a 100% chance to stun with their secondary attack. I always want some macebros, I think they're the ideal tanks, and I tend to give maces to me 1-handers with the highest MAtk because when I need to stun someone I want that to hit every time. Cleavers are probably the weapon that will get you the most reliable damage each turn, they're reliable sources of damage and the extra bleed is quite nice. Also good against zombies, where their decapitate secondary attack will stop zombies coming back to life, making up for the lack of bleed to some extent. That being said, personally I don't think you want to give everyone a cleaver because the additional specialization from having axebros, hammerbros, and macebros who can break shields, destroy armour, and stun enemies is really valuable. Every bro should have a dagger for stealing armour at the end of a fight. It is possible to specialize in just daggers, and the ability to do three or four attacks per turn with the specialization is nice. I've never specialized bro purely in daggers, but I have done hybrid dagger and mace or sword bros, and they've always pulled their weight. Mace or sword for most fights and then whip out the dagger to puncture Orc Warriors to death. That build eats through fatigue like nobody's business though. I also did do a gimmick company once where I gave everyone a dagger, and it was surprisingly effective... when it worked. You basically just completely ignored armour all the time against everyone, and the fact that you hit much less often was about cancelled out by the fact that when you did hit you did damage straight to HP and often caused injuries. When it didn't work, everybody just died.
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May 13, 2019 13:12
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vyelkin posted:Flails only have two tiers, the wooden flail and the regular one. On the other hand if you can reliably hit people in the head it'll make up for the lack of a third tier because you'll be doing critical damage more often. That being said, as you start facing enemies that wear good helmets they stop being good quickly, and if you specialize a bro in flails he'll be suboptimal in most fights by the lategame. Where they really shine is in the midgame when bandit raiders are your main source of armour, because almost inevitable a few raiders spawn without helmets in every fight, and if you can brain them before damaging their body at all then you get their armour intact. Once you're all decked out in raider-tier armour and don't need any more, though, flails lose their functionality because by that point raiders are no challenge so being able to one-shot one or two of them a fight isn't that big a deal. Thank you, that is immensely valuable! Rather dissapointed I gave one of my best bros flail mastery now, but that's life. I think I did see a unique 2-handed flail once that was all metal and shaped like a winged mace. I really like the weapons in this game and it has gotten better with both dlcs. Really nails the reality of medieval warfare where not all weapons were used for the same roles.
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May 13, 2019 13:35
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Flails have 4 tiers. The nunchucks, the wooden one, metal and the 3-heads (though 3 heads is a bit of a weird weapon compared to normal tiering). The second ability of the flail will ALWAYS hit the head, however it will only ignore shields if the bro has flail mastery. It will also eat up your stamina like crazy. Head shots critical damage to health but follow normal damage rules for armour, this makes flail masters awkward with combining with other bro's against heavily armoured foes because if they smash away the enemy's body armour whacking their head to chip away at head armour is pointless. There are also 3 two handed flail: the wooden one, the metal one and the ORC CHAIN. Tell me if you make THE ORC CHAIN work because I haven't managed to yet. IIRC Wizard Styles or I did a write up somewhere back in the annuls of the thread about head armour, body armour and going for headshot characters. Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 13:41 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 13:39
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So, an update just happened and now I have a sword blade that I apparently retrieved from a Kraken . On day 13. Um, thanks i guess
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May 13, 2019 13:39
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For early game with peasant militia I've just been giving pretty much everyone in the front line Spears since they all have 50s in weapon skill and can't hit poo poo without the bonus from them. Is this a bad idea?
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May 13, 2019 13:40
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If it helps I always give my "at the time" best bro flail mastery and he'll happily get everyone else through the midgame, to the point where his slight drawback there is made up by everyone else around him being decent. Ignoring shields is never a bad thing either.kidkissinger posted:For early game with peasant militia I've just been giving pretty much everyone in the front line Spears since they all have 50s in weapon skill and can't hit poo poo without the bonus from them. Is this a bad idea? This isn't a bad idea, but you'll want to mix in a sword or two. They do more damage and still have a bonus to hit.
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May 13, 2019 13:41
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I would argue that flails have one use lategame, and that is against the Ancient Dead. I also haven't messed around much with the 2H flail, anyone have some experience with that?
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May 13, 2019 13:41
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It's cool and that makes up for it not being that good.
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May 13, 2019 13:43
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I used to go all flails in midgame but now I don't take mastery till late and go Spears to flails to maces as characters get higher melee attack.
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May 13, 2019 13:50
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Broken Cog posted:I would argue that flails have one use lategame, and that is against the Ancient Dead. I also haven't messed around much with the 2H flail, anyone have some experience with that? I used one for a while in my last game before the new DLC because it dropped from a raider early on, and it was effective but quickly outweighed by the usual two-handed swords.
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May 13, 2019 13:59
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dogstile posted:If it helps I always give my "at the time" best bro flail mastery and he'll happily get everyone else through the midgame, to the point where his slight drawback there is made up by everyone else around him being decent. Ignoring shields is never a bad thing either. How do I see all the bonuses to hit? It doesn't seem to show up when moused over.
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May 13, 2019 14:06
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Gridlocked posted:Flails have 4 tiers. The nunchucks, the wooden one, metal and the 3-heads (though 3 heads is a bit of a weird weapon compared to normal tiering). The second ability of the flail will ALWAYS hit the head, however it will only ignore shields if the bro has flail mastery. It will also eat up your stamina like crazy. Head shots critical damage to health but follow normal damage rules for armour, this makes flail masters awkward with combining with other bro's against heavily armoured foes because if they smash away the enemy's body armour whacking their head to chip away at head armour is pointless. Right, forgot about the nunchucks. So I guess flails are actually more in line with other three-tiered weapons like spears, axes, hammers, and cleavers, and the four-tiered swords and maces are the exception. I don't really count the three-headed flail as an upgrade over the tier three one, for me it's more like a sideways step, kind of like how you wouldn't think of a fencing sword as an upgrade over a noble sword.
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May 13, 2019 14:10
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One neat thing about spear mastery is it applies to Warforks and Spetums too, so you can have an early spearwall guy who also can do backline attacks pretty well by swapping. I usually have one or 2 spear guys on that note. Spear mastery also keeps spear wall active even if one guy breaks through. AFAIK Spetums have spearwall as their own ability too.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 14:13
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Speaking of three-headed flail, is it actually good for anything? I remember finding an unique one with almost max damage stats when the Beast DLC came out, and even that wasn't good enough that I could justify using it over a normal flail.
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May 13, 2019 14:14
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vyelkin posted:Right, forgot about the nunchucks. So I guess flails are actually more in line with other three-tiered weapons like spears, axes, hammers, and cleavers, and the four-tiered swords and maces are the exception. I don't really count the three-headed flail as an upgrade over the tier three one, for me it's more like a sideways step, kind of like how you wouldn't think of a fencing sword as an upgrade over a noble sword. 3 headed flail is unique in the sense that it rolls 3 times to attack, splits its damage across each attack (so each hit is a third of the over all damage) and procs checks for each weapon hit. Including moral checks. Again thing I have never been bothered to try but with Fearsome it could be a pretty neat little moral wrecking trick.
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May 13, 2019 14:15
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kidkissinger posted:How do I see all the bonuses to hit? It doesn't seem to show up when moused over. You have to look at the attack options for each weapon, since the bonuses to-hit are tied to the attack ability, not the weapon itself. Generally, you want to stick with spears and swords until about 60 Melee. At around 60 Melee, your bros can sometimes hit enemies without an to-hit bonus, allowing them to use better weapons. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 14:16
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Broken Cog posted:Speaking of three-headed flail, is it actually good for anything? I remember finding an unique one with almost max damage stats when the Beast DLC came out, and even that wasn't good enough that I could justify using it over a normal flail. They're great for geists.
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May 13, 2019 14:23
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I'm really liking the Poacher start. It feels like the added movement speed really jump-starts early game progress.
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May 13, 2019 15:12
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every viking start has been brought to an abrupt end by a crippling lack of taxidermists in the south how am I supposed to be a savage if I can't turn my dead enemies into jewelry?
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May 13, 2019 15:31
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 These are some unlikely allies (they were not hostile to each other, and there were no necromancers present)
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May 13, 2019 15:47
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kidkissinger posted:How do I see all the bonuses to hit? It doesn't seem to show up when moused over. When you equip the item, look at its moves. They will say move to move if they have a bonus to hit. The basic spear move has a +20, while the basic sword move says it has +10.
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May 13, 2019 16:34
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vyelkin posted:Cleavers are probably the weapon that will get you the most reliable damage each turn, they're reliable sources of damage and the extra bleed is quite nice. Also good against zombies, where their decapitate secondary attack will stop zombies coming back to life, making up for the lack of bleed to some extent. That being said, personally I don't think you want to give everyone a cleaver because the additional specialization from having axebros, hammerbros, and macebros who can break shields, destroy armour, and stun enemies is really valuable. I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe headless zombies can't self-resurrect but they can be resurrected by a necromancer.
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May 13, 2019 17:09
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I killed a barbarian king with no losses and took his badass cleaver  Then I promptly lost a good bro in the next fight because it turns out barbarians have both cleaver mastery and quick hands, so a barbarian with javelins suddenly turned into a barbarian with a cleaver and gave my guy two stacks of bleed in one turn, and the 40 bleeding damage over the next two turns meant he bled out before anyone with a bandage could reach him through the snow. Good to know for next time I guess.
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May 13, 2019 17:12
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Every single hedge knight run I do keeps throwing literally hordes of raiders at me on day 3. Every contract? Raiders. Travelling the road? Here's a stack of raiders. The bow brothers in comparison are a breeze.
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May 13, 2019 17:41
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I finished a lone wolf game after the first crisis. Its kind of interesting how much injuries mattered more now since you can't really have reserves to switch out. It also got me to make two throwing specialist instead of archers because I didn't want them to be useless in undead fights and I am pretty surprised how effective they are with duelist. The new barbarian "heavy" throwing weapons are really really good. Regular Javelin : Damage 30-45, Armor ignore 45%, armor damage 75%, -6 fatigue Heavy Javelin: 40-55, Armor ignore 45%, armor damage 80%, -8 fatigue, -5% hit chance Regular Throwing axe : Damage 25-40, Armor ignore 25%, armor damage 110%, -4 fatigue Heavy Throwing axe : Damage 35-55, Armor ignore 25%, armor damage 115%, -6 fatigue -5% hit chance All are range 4. Javelins end up kind of working like a pikeman who can attack twice in a turn or three times with berserk and they do 70% armor ignore with duelist. So it was pretty common to take a full hp orc warrior to 50% health with two injuries in one turn when they hit your line because throwing mastery gives 40% and 20% bonus damage at range 2 and 3 respectively. The only thing I really missed was being able to snipe say a hexe or a necromancer on turn two or three with a bow but I pretty much avoided hexe as much as I could and just ground through zombies with my melee guys. Throwing axes are pretty good too if you have high value targets in armor that need to be focused down. I think 115% armor damage is the highest for ranged weapons. The limited ammo would probably be a bigger issue in some fights but I never ran out with extra pockets giving me 25 total ammo.
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May 13, 2019 17:44
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Got a Disowned Noble from clearing out an orc camp, first time I've seen that event.
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May 13, 2019 18:38
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So I posted earlier that my 10 men (levels 4-9) met 6 chosen and took them all out, with daggers, without any deaths. I promptly had my next save corrupted, went back to the chosen battle autosave today. Realised just how lucky I was, cause I cannot win this battle. Every time the chosen just smash catastrophic injuries into my guys at every turn. Bogarts posted:Throwing stuff This is really interesting. Do you take quick hands and/or put throwing weapons on your front line melee guys? Or is it just for second line guys? Do you pump points into ranged attack? How is it balanced with melee?
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May 13, 2019 19:43
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Two goddamn brigands just punctured and killed my lone wolf hedge knight in one round. God hedge knight is hard in a not that cool way.
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May 13, 2019 22:02
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Bogarts posted:I finished a lone wolf game after the first crisis. Its kind of interesting how much injuries mattered more now since you can't really have reserves to switch out. It also got me to make two throwing specialist instead of archers because I didn't want them to be useless in undead fights and I am pretty surprised how effective they are with duelist. The new barbarian "heavy" throwing weapons are really really good. Throwing weapon specialists were actually really good and badly underrated even before the DLC, it's an awesome if a top-heavy build (they don't really get amazing until Duelist and are pretty mediocre before it come online). I can only imagine the crazy damage output with these new weapons. A javelin duelist was the all-star killing machine of my previous company, although I haven't played since before B&E came out so there's a lot of new content to wrap my head around.
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May 13, 2019 22:08
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jokes posted:Two goddamn brigands just punctured and killed my lone wolf hedge knight in one round. God hedge knight is hard in a not that cool way. This is why underdog is a mandatory perk for all front-line bro. Maybe the militia start can skip underdog, but it's more or less mandatory for any other start.
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May 13, 2019 22:12
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I've had 2k gold for like three days now and my ambition hasn't completed to get my battle standard. Any ideas?
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May 13, 2019 22:13
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Broken Cog posted:
This is weird and if you have the time you should report it as a bug to them. Living and Undead, from what I know, should never ally in any form in the game (except Necros). Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 22:44 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 22:40
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Should I be using 2h axes in the beginning? Seems like my bros miss with the axe way too much despite having like a %60 chance to hit.
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May 13, 2019 22:41
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Popete posted:Should I be using 2h axes in the beginning? Seems like my bros miss with the axe way too much despite having like a %60 chance to hit. No, without a shield you expose yourself too much and the early bros usually don't have the armor/hp or defense skill to survive once they start missing with their 2h weapon.
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May 13, 2019 22:43
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Hammerstein posted:No, without a shield you expose yourself too much and the early bros usually don't have the armor/hp or defense skill to survive once they start missing with their 2h weapon. Yeah that's my experience. I guess I'll start just giving everyone a spear/mace/sword & shield. I was trying to make some HP tank 2h axemen with the best armour but they can't hit anything so it seems pointless.
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May 13, 2019 22:44
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Don't use 2handers until you have a guy with 200+ body armour and maybe 150+ head armour, and enough weapon skill that he is very consistent at hitting
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May 13, 2019 22:49
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Since it's rather easy to create new backgrounds now I was wondering if it's worth it to create some kind of "Sword from the Stone" scenario, if I can find the tags for the legendary weapon. Start with a farmer and his 2 low-born friends and almost no funds. But with a magnificient weapon. Should be possible to give your farmboy the protagonist tag, same as Lone Wolf, just gotta find a way to bind the weapon only to that char. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 23:46 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 22:57
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RabidWeasel posted:Don't use 2handers until you have a guy with 200+ body armour and maybe 150+ head armour, and enough weapon skill that he is very consistent at hitting Unless you're fighting the ancient legion things that all do shield wall so you can rip those loving shieldwalls off with a lumberjack's axe.
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May 13, 2019 22:58
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El Spamo posted:The start is tough, but you hire a few farmers to keep dudes off your archers and you'll have some seriously dangerous arrow shooters a lot sooner than you usually would. Once you've got 5+ melee bros and a few levels on the archers things are definitely looking up, though. I haven't played further than that yet but the bonuses should make it a very good background once you get past the start. Having 3 archers that are guaranteed to be at least serviceable for an endgame company is great in itself. Good ranged recruits are hard to come by on some maps and generally expensive since all decent ranged backgrounds except Poachers come with upper tier gear. Being able to look into ruins is great. If nothing else it means you won't have to use the awful retreat mechanic (or savescum) when checking a place out, but it'll also save your bros from some crossbow bolts coming their way when you attack one that you think might contain the baby Orcs said to have a unique shield but nope it's 4 Marksmen on a hill. And faster movement speed is obviously the best thing. It helps with some contracts and can keep you out of ambushes in the woods sometimes but mostly it makes a pretty slow game go faster. It also counteracts the -10% inventory space drawback. vyelkin posted:lol "cheaty as gently caress" Genghis Cohen posted:- are 1handed swords strictly worse than axes or hammers? Maces? I understand the utility of the special abilities, but no idea about how the maths of damage works out against armour. Cleavers? - Having a bro use only daggers is not viable. Maybe some insane Iron Lungs 150 Fatigue bro could be an exception but you only ever want to use Puncture and that costs too much Fatigue to maintain for an entire fight, at least a fight that is worth thinking about. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 23:07
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