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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I make furniture (in very small quantities, for personal use). I absolutely have an idea of how much work it is to make high-quality original furniture, and thus why said high-quality original furniture is so expensive. You may complain that shoppers' price ranges are unrealistically anchored by cheap knockoff furniture, but I think it's honestly just as much that their price ranges are dictated by their incomes. Plenty of people simply can't afford the furniture you're trying to convince them to buy. That doesn't mean they don't care about interior design, just that the non-knockoff, non-Ikea part of the market is closed to them. Except that the argument here was not “I can’t afford the high quality stuff,” it was “the expensive stuff is basically the same as the knockoffs,” which is absolutely not true. Y’all can buy what you want, but don’t pretend that cheap copies from Chinese sweatshops are going to give you as much bang for your buck as something made by craftspeople.
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May 13, 2019 17:47
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PRADA SLUT posted:I think that's a desk that it's sitting on, so it can't be done. I was reacting to his statement that they don't use the desktop machine any more and are looking into replacing the desk with a media console.
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May 13, 2019 17:50
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That Works posted:Yeah I'm not seeing (apart from like metal burrs or something that may or may not even be there) where the cheap knockoff version of that metal chair would be inherently less comfortable to sit on? Are the ergonomics and or physical dimensions of the chair fundamentally different? If not then shouldn't they just be identical in terms of comfort on initial use?  The burr is absolutely there. And read the review where the quality control is immediately called out. I mean, the seat is around 18" off the ground, so I guess you can say you're right that they're ergonomically identical in that regard? So is a milk crate on its end, why don't we all just sit on those?
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May 13, 2019 18:01
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Melicious posted:Except that the argument here was not “I can’t afford the high quality stuff,” it was “the expensive stuff is basically the same as the knockoffs,” which is absolutely not true. Here's the post that PRADA SLUT was reacting to: quote:Why would an “original” be any different to the clones in any functional sense? Does the extra $400 make them magically more comfy? Which, up until the last two sentences is focused on functionality (i.e. is the chair comfortable) and freely admits that fit and finish won't be as good in the knockoffs. Those last two sentences imply that there's no such thing as good expensive furniture, which I disagree with. For what it's worth, I would not say that people get as much bang for their buck from craftsperson-made furniture than from the cheap knockoffs, simply because the cheap knockoffs are so cheap. You can't buy high-quality furniture while being money-conscious, not unless you're willing to spend a huge amount of time shopping secondhand stores to find stuff that matches the style you want. It's simply far too labor-intensive to make good furniture for it to not be expensive enough to be out of most peoples' reaches. Most people also buy mass-produced clothing, because it's so much cheaper than the handmade stuff. A mass-produced shirt won't be as good as a hand-tailored one, but when the hand-tailored one costs 10x the price, most people get priced out of that market.
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May 13, 2019 18:02
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I mean, I'd argue that "not slicing me open" is a big part of the function of a chair.
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May 13, 2019 18:22
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Investing in and paying extra for a chair that will last for fifty years doesn't make much sense when you might be in that apartment for ten or twenty max
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May 13, 2019 18:26
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Google Butt posted:How about noguchi replicas? This is actually more interesting than the Emecos or whatever. Noguchi was a sculptor who was inspired and worked by the modernist Romanian sculptor, Brancusi, and that's why the Noguchi coffee table moved away from legs and toward this new, 'sculpted' base, which in turn changed the entire design locus of coffee tables toward focusing on interesting bases with clear glass tops that still exist in some form today. Had he not been able to get the design produced, the landscape of coffee tables we have today is completely different. When the entire market becomes flooded with everyone producing knockoffs trying to imitate Herman Miller or whatever, it obliterates the design space for smaller, interesting designs to rise to prominence. The market for knockoff furniture doesn't really hurt a huge company like Herman Miller (who can afford to take the 'loss') but it absolutely kills smaller companies and independent designers who are trying to make their originally designed and produced products compete with people buying mass-produced $30 Tolix knockoffs (which they can do because they don't have the R&D cost or risk of original design), and discourages manufacturers from backing new ideas. Why take a risk when you can just advertise to the customer that they're getting a deal on 'basically the same thing'?
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May 13, 2019 18:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Investing in and paying extra for a chair that will last for fifty years doesn't make much sense when you might be in that apartment for ten or twenty max Just don't anchor the chairs to the floor? You can move chairs, y'know.
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May 13, 2019 18:32
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I’ve sat in real Tolix chairs and I’ve sat in fake tolix chairs, and neither one is particularly comfortable, but that was never the point of the original design. A chair was required that was durable, stackable, mass producible, cost effective, and not actively uncomfortable-it succeeds brilliantly at all of these things, and they look alright to boot. I have no idea why anyone would want one in their house because they are definitely not the most comfortable dining chairs around, and they are not going to be put to the sort of abuse that they would be in their intended commercial setting to justify the sacrifice in comfort, but to each their own. To the extent that knockoffs are sacrificing durability and quality they are, to me at least, missing the entire point of the chairs-their reason for existing is their indestructibility. Factory furniture is generally never going to compete with custom furniture in quality of materials, finish, or design because it has to be made to suit a mass market price point, and as Prada has pointed out, that generally leads to a race to the bottom in quality as most consumers care only about price. Educating the consumer is very important-people see two tables and they think they are comparing apples to apples, and why does one cost 3x what the other costs, but in fact the two, while perhaps functionally identical, are worlds apart. Furniture designers, like artists and architects, have to get paid for their work, so by cutting out their royalties/commissions knock off shops can cut their prices even further, and create less and less incentive for anyone to bother coming up with a new design, and we are all much poorer for that. I’m in the custom furniture business and I always tell people to see if they can find what they want off the shelf because I mostly cannot compete with factory stuff on price, though I think my quality is far superior. And, from a design perspective, I can provide my customers with exactly what they need for their space-the right size, proportions, finish etc. There are, thankfully, enough people willing to pay for that luxury to keep me and many others like me in business, but it is admittedly a luxury. It’s well worth trying to seek out local furniture makers-they are probably going to be a bit more expensive, but not always, and your money is going straight into your local economy and not to China and shareholders via Restoration Hardware corporate HQ. The nature of the piece makes a huge difference as well-I can actually make a solid mahogany pencil post for around $3000 that should last 200 years and that is reasonably competitive with a lot of factory stuff that won’t even make it 50, but I can’t begin to make a chair for less than $800.
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May 13, 2019 18:37
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PRADA SLUT posted:Here's an idea: How about more companies put efforts into designing and producing original products at varied price points such that it promotes design availability for everyone and moves the industry toward new innovative ideas? It's not like we ran out of design space 80 years ago. Ok, get right on that, dipshit. In the meantime we'll have to deal with poo poo the way it actually is. I mean, that sounds great and all but the way you present it as though it is a solution to the $20 v $900 chair for my house TODAY question is dumb af
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May 13, 2019 18:48
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The argument about cheap stuff being wasteful is a strong one. On the other hand most people don't need their furniture to last 100 years which is one of the big features of designer furniture. People change their design preferences much more often that that. Also lot of people just can't afford super nice furniture. Ikea is a reflection of the economy more than anything else. I mean my desk was $300. It's not going to last forever but I don't need it to. I think 5-10 years is plenty.
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May 13, 2019 18:56
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I’ve sat in real Tolix chairs and I’ve sat in fake tolix chairs, and neither one is particularly comfortable, but that was never the point of the original design. A chair was required that was durable, stackable, mass producible, cost effective, and not actively uncomfortable-it succeeds brilliantly at all of these things, and they look alright to boot. I have no idea why anyone would want one in their house because they are definitely not the most comfortable dining chairs around, and they are not going to be put to the sort of abuse that they would be in their intended commercial setting to justify the sacrifice in comfort, but to each their own. To the extent that knockoffs are sacrificing durability and quality they are, to me at least, missing the entire point of the chairs-their reason for existing is their indestructibility. I was looking at some local crafted hardwood tables awhile back and they were around $5k and all the reviews of the local joineries were full of people like "$5k? I can go to West Elm and get the same thing for $500!"
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May 13, 2019 19:42
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The Dave posted:If you plan on staying in that place awhile consider wall mounting the tv. When you leave it will be a pretty basic spackle job to cover up and will make the space feel much more wide open. I've been wanting to mount the tv to the wall for a while, and I think I just might have to. It might motivate us to finally get the media console we've been talking about for a while. I really want to move the turntable from where it is now. I took some photos of the space. Please ignore the mess and terrible cable management; I've been moving stuff around to see what the room might look like in different configurations. Ignore the Ikea chair too, we had two of them that the couch is replacing but the person who we're giving them to hasn't come to pick them up yet. The wall behind the couch used to have a bookcase, which is why the painting is mounted so high. We also do have an area rug, but it's HUGE and dominates the space. It reaches all the way from the windows to the blue bookcase and I've been wanting to replace it with a much smaller one since we moved in. It's just a relic from our last, larger apartment in another state.  
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May 13, 2019 19:53
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If you just bought it, just live with it for awhile and feel it out, what you think you need might change. A coffee table would technically fit, but the room would look crowded and I wouldn't do it. If you do it anyway, I'd get something super thin with a minimal ground profile (think something a Roomba could navigate under), and it's going to make it real awkward for the person sitting next to the window to get up and around it. If it were my place, I think I'd just deal with it, you can put glasses on the windowsill. There might be some validity to pulling it away from the wall and putting something behind it (like a shelf), but I can't visualize it. An end table will hang into the doorway and both look bad and annoy you every time you had to go past it. I don't have anything next to my TV couch and I just put things beside/behind/under if I need a place for something. I don't eat on my couch either, though.
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May 13, 2019 20:07
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Get a couch with large, flat arm rests. Or they make "tables" that slip under the side of the couch, and extend over the armrest. Otherwise I agree with Prada. Not enough space for a coffee table in there, and you can just use the sill.
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May 13, 2019 20:20
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Wait, did you just buy the couch or is it an existing couch?
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May 13, 2019 20:32
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Yeah I guess they just got the couch. Never mind about buying a new one.
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May 13, 2019 20:40
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We bought the couch a few days ago. It's new. Right now it's where the chairs used to be, but putting it along the wall with the windows is something I've also been considering.
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May 13, 2019 20:41
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Maybe you can do with just a small stool as table? And whoever is sitting by the window can use the window sill.
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May 13, 2019 20:45
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PRADA SLUT posted:There might be some validity to pulling it away from the wall and putting something behind it (like a shelf), but I can't visualize it. 
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May 13, 2019 20:55
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i like nice words
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You really need something on the wall directly above the couch
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May 13, 2019 20:58
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Yep, we're painting a painting to go on that wall. It's not finished so I haven't put it up yet. Edit: Speak of the devil, my wife came home with the finished painting. Here it is, if you're curious: 
Chip McFuck fucked around with this message at 21:16 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 21:04
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Ok it's kind of funny that we've got a page or two of looking for a way to add a flat surface to the space and then he posts a photo with a perfectly serviceable windowsill 8 inches away
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May 13, 2019 22:08
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Oh, we use the windowsill for sure. My main reason for wanting a coffee table is so two/three people sitting on the couch could have an easily reached surface for cups and such. If you're not sitting next to the window, then you've either got to place your drink on the floor or reach across/walk in front of/constantly ask the person sitting next to the window. I could be just getting old or something, because that got tiring pretty quick.
Chip McFuck fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 22:18
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sippy cups all round
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May 13, 2019 22:54
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Jaded Burnout posted:sippy cups all round 
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May 13, 2019 22:59
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also, 
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May 13, 2019 23:05
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Chip McFuck posted:Oh, we use the windowsill for sure. My main reason for wanting a coffee table is so two/three people sitting on the couch could have an easily reached surface for cups and such. If you're not sitting next to the window, then you've either got to place your drink on the floor or reach across/walk in front of/constantly ask the person sitting next to the window. I could be just getting old or something, because that got tiring pretty quick. tbh I would just leave it as-is for week or so and feel it out. It might not be as big of a deal as you imagine it to be. You can also put a cardboard box in the middle of the room for a week simulate the geometry of a table and see how it works getting in/out of it with the box there, and how the space of the room changes with it sitting in the middle. This also buys you time to shop if you're still thinking of getting one nielsm posted:Maybe you can do with just a small stool as table? And whoever is sitting by the window can use the window sill. There's some combo stool / side tables that are meant to be used like that, such as the Eames stool or similar. I have one of these that I float around the place if I need a place to put a drink / an extra butt for tv time PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 23:11 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 23:07
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PRADA SLUT posted:I was looking at some local crafted hardwood tables awhile back and they were around $5k and all the reviews of the local joineries were full of people like "$5k? I can go to West Elm and get the same thing for $500!"
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May 13, 2019 23:57
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buy used
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May 13, 2019 23:58
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peanut posted:buy used
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May 14, 2019 00:08
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Are there any thread favorite apps for decorating an apartment? I’m moving soonish and would love to be able to lay out basic ideas of what goes where and the colors I’ll need. E- iOS/android/pc Snowy fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 01:26
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Snowy posted:Are there any thread favorite apps for decorating an apartment? I know some places like IKEA and some Amazon products will do an augmented 3d for placing furniture
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May 14, 2019 06:50
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Late to the Emeco and knockoff thread, but the only knockoff Emeco chairs were made by General Fireproofing under the Goodform who ceased manufacturing them in the 70's Still solid finds on the used market tho.
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May 14, 2019 13:04
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Is exactly right. Dealers can’t give away decent but not extraordinary 18th/19th C antiques these days and they are a serious bargain right now. Lightly sprinkled in with more contemporary stuff they offer a nice contrast and look great. It's a great time to be a fan of Victorian furniture/design while also owning a huge Victorian house that needs to be furnished with better stuff than the IKEA/curbside garbage we collected during our college years. An especially good buy is wardrobes/armoires - giant, exquisite pieces that no one wants or needs because houses have huge closets now. Not my house (irony is that the servant rooms in the attic actually have adequately sized closets - no armoires for poors). The challenge is actually finding this stuff, especially big pieces. Antique stores are often full of "vintage" knickknack crap with good real antiques being few and far between. Garage sales with cool housewares and furniture seem to be getting rarer (it's all baby clothes and poo poo), and while you can get super lucky on Craigslist and eBay, trawling through them is a pain in the rear end. I need to make friends with some antiques dealers.
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May 14, 2019 15:15
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Queen Victorian posted:The challenge is actually finding this stuff, especially big pieces. Antique stores are often full of "vintage" knickknack crap with good real antiques being few and far between. Garage sales with cool housewares and furniture seem to be getting rarer (it's all baby clothes and poo poo), and while you can get super lucky on Craigslist and eBay, trawling through them is a pain in the rear end. I need to make friends with some antiques dealers. Yeah, a lot of antiquing is just figuring what kind of vendors a given place has and how much vetting for quality is going on so you aren't wasting your time going across town for a place that turns out to be 50% chalk-paint furniture and farmhouse signs. For Victorian furniture your sure bets are going to be rich bastard antique shops or the big regional antique shows.
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May 14, 2019 20:18
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there wolf posted:Yeah, a lot of antiquing is just figuring what kind of vendors a given place has and how much vetting for quality is going on so you aren't wasting your time going across town for a place that turns out to be 50% chalk-paint furniture and farmhouse signs. For Victorian furniture your sure bets are going to be rich bastard antique shops or the big regional antique shows. I follow several local places on Instagram, it works really well because you can DM them for holds if you see something you like. I am also a fan of estate sale websites for the same reason: you can see the type of stuff they have in advance and decide if it's worth driving out. Going to regional shows is probably best for specific styles, there's a Midcentury show every October in Cincinnati that I've gone to several times. Everything is WAY marked up at the show but instead I collect dealer names and then follow them on their various social media.
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May 14, 2019 22:40
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May 14, 2019 23:03
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Mother loving
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May 14, 2019 23:12
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A hahahaha
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