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Cross posting this from the Star Citizen thread, because it's rather amusing (and kinda mind boggling as to how it could happen):
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May 12, 2019 19:55
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I would play a game that has a gun that shoots guns that shoot grenades.
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May 12, 2019 20:03
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Cardiovorax posted:I would play a game that has a gun that shoots guns that shoot grenades. Have you played Borderlands 2?
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May 12, 2019 20:09
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Cardiovorax posted:I would play a game that has a gun that shoots guns that shoot grenades. Borderlands 2/presequel kinda has this
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May 12, 2019 20:09
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Haha, and here I thought I was just making a joke. Noted down for my next long weekend, thanks.
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May 12, 2019 20:10
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Borderlands 3 previews have explicitly shown the game to have even more ridiculous kinds of throwable/launchable guns, including guns that have little legs and run around shooting at enemies while screaming until they run out of ammunition and suddenly explode.
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May 12, 2019 21:07
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Specifically, there's a gun manufacturer that specializes in ultra-cheap disposable guns that you throw away and make a new copy from sci fi handwaving rather than reload. In Borderlands 2 they just exploded like grenades, in BL3 they've added lots of other possibilities.
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May 12, 2019 21:15
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That sounds kind of amazing. Disposable throw-away guns were already fun, but watching them suddenly sprout little spider legs and run after bandits of their own accord, that would be hysterical.
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May 12, 2019 21:35
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I will never forget the massively OP corrosion disposable shotgun the game rng'd for me the first time i played thru BL2 Protip - the thrown guns' damage scales up when you leave ammo in it so it's a valid strategy to fire one round and primarily chuck for damage
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May 12, 2019 22:04
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Cardiovorax posted:I would play a game that has a gun that shoots guns that shoot grenades. When you reload the borderlands 2 orange tediore shotgun, it flies around and shoots things for awhile before blowing up on something. good luck getting it legit with the game's korean MMO drop rates though
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May 13, 2019 02:15
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Digirat posted:When you reload the borderlands 2 orange tediore shotgun, it flies around and shoots things for awhile before blowing up on something. good luck getting it legit with the game's korean MMO drop rates though Hey the drop rates have been fixed to be better and there's always Cheat Engine to boost those drop rates. Cardiovorax posted:That sounds kind of amazing. Disposable throw-away guns were already fun, but watching them suddenly sprout little spider legs and run after bandits of their own accord, that would be hysterical. Borderlands 2 has guns that fly like rockets, bounce around, simply explode but Borderlands 3 has guns growing legs, exploding into homing MIRVs, turn into bouncy balls and whatnot. It's gonna be awesome.
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May 13, 2019 06:37
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Kikas posted:Hey the drop rates have been fixed to be better and there's always Cheat Engine to boost those drop rates. I want more guns that arent just 'hitscan projectile reskin' Those have been a massive rarity in the prior games. I remember the most unique launcher I found in BL2 being one that shot an arcing purple glob that itself dropped bomblets as it flew. For a rocket launcher, that was pretty neat - but also insanely rare. Where's the fun stuff like laser guided missiles? Charge up guns with varying effects? The Needler from Halo? Look at the neat mechanics a game like Resistance: Fall of Man: a gun that projects shields and shoots terrain-drilling bolts. A rocket launcher that you can fly by wire and laser, letting the projectile hover and shoot around corners. A flak gun that lets you split the projectiles in two several times to saturate an area or deliver a big blast. Where for the love of god is my shock rifle? Yeah they got more creative with the weapons with each release, but it never really felt like anything but the bog standard hitscan bullethose with element of choice was 'ideal'. The other stuff was always more of a fun temporary gimmick. I'm hoping they aren't afraid to go properly crazy, and not limit the really unique effects to a handful of boss drops and named weapons that stay relevant for a few levels and get left by the wayside, as was the case prior.
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May 13, 2019 06:59
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DarkDobe posted:not limit the really unique effects to a handful of boss drops and named weapons that stay relevant for a few levels and get left by the wayside Yeah they really need to nuke that BL2 level scaling garbage right into the ground if BL3 is gonna be fun. A gun needs to be able to be viable for about 2+ hours if you're gonna get a good story about it, which is the only reason to have crazy guns in those games anyway. If I find something fun and crazy it should remain fun and crazy for long enough that I feel really bad when it's just completely outclassed by basic drops and tearfully get rid of it, not be fun and crazy for the 2 minutes before I level up and it becomes near worthless.
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May 13, 2019 07:43
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Kikas posted:Borderlands 2 has guns that fly like rockets, bounce around, simply explode but Borderlands 3 has guns growing legs, exploding into homing MIRVs, turn into bouncy balls and whatnot. It's gonna be awesome.
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May 13, 2019 10:32
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If you want to fire some crazy rear end loving guns, then by all means, check out Warframe.
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May 13, 2019 13:16
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Borderlands needs to learn from Diablo 3 and make reaching max character level fast as poo poo. I can stand a level grind or a gear grind, but I ain't got the patience for both anymore
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May 13, 2019 13:43
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Borderlands doesn't have a variety of active abilities that you'd want to try out at some point during a standard playthrough, so I don't think it's so bad. There's no real need to grind for levels because levels do little for you anyway, but continuously leveling up means that improvements to weaponry plateau more slowly, which means you get to enjoy collecting new stuff for longer.DelphiAegis posted:If you want to fire some crazy rear end loving guns, then by all means, check out Warframe.
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May 13, 2019 13:46
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I just hate gear dropping that I know will be worthless in an hour no matter how well it rolled. Also while there ain't many active abilities, the passive change the actives enough that waiting thirty hours in to see it kind of sucks. I also just realized this isn't the 'pyf game complaint' thread so I'll drop it.
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May 13, 2019 13:52
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FWIW, I've cheated my way to max level in this kind of game often enough to find that once there's no way to go except sideways, the appeal of loot games very quickly drops off. But yeah, dropping.
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May 13, 2019 13:55
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Cardiovorax posted:
Play with goons. This cannot be overstated. Get into one of the many goon clans and be showered with goodies that would be otherwise a bit (or a lot) of grind to get you started.
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May 13, 2019 13:59
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In particular, if you say hi i'm new in the discord, 3 to 7 different people will all ask you if you have gotten the standard newbie mod pack and shower you with them the moment trading unlocks. We will give you stuff to make a shotgun shoot 300% more bullets per bullet and help you with pretty much any question you ask, so ask often because warframe is a very obtuse game sometimes. A small caveat is that you need to use boring weapons to level up because mastery level is based on how many weapons you leveled up but by 2 you can make a assault rifle nailgun by 4 you have the 400% bullets shotgun and a microwave pistol and by 5 you get a flamethrower and a chaining heat ray and a singularity launcher and a automatic shotgun/minigun hybrid and so on, so it doesn't take too long to get to the cool stuff.
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May 13, 2019 14:18
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DarkDobe posted:I want more guns that arent just 'hitscan projectile reskin' Borderlands 2 has a ton of guns that aren't just bullet hoses. The problem is they're rare as poo poo, or for the more common ones (the ones given by quests), just aren't very good. For example, one quest gives a shotgun whose pellets fly in a predictable wave fashion instead of spreading out. It sounds good because with skill you can get all of the pellets to hit a single target at range, but in practice the gun doesn't do that much extra damage if all pellets hit, and if you want to shoot things from mid to long range, headshots with an AR or sniper rifle are just way more practical. Also I'm not sure that any gun in Borderlands 2 is actually hitscan; I'm pretty sure they all have bullet travel times, just with some being fast enough they might as well be hitscan for the ranges the game plays at.
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May 13, 2019 14:33
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I believe this is true and that there is at least one character who actually has a passive that increases bullet velocity. This makes Explosive elemental weapons far more usable. fake edit: yup, it's zer0's Vel0city skill.
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May 13, 2019 14:38
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As we're on Borderlands 2 gotta mention playing an Anarchy Gaige, especially with a Torgue shotgun. Sure my accuracy may be reduced so low that some of the pellets from my gun go backwards, but it doesn't matter when 90% of them ricochet off the terrain directly towards the nearest enemy and do 300% damage  edit: and here I thought this was the PYF little things thread. Oops 
Icedude has a new favorite as of 15:16 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 14:56
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Icedude posted:As we're on Borderlands 2 gotta mention playing an Anarchy Gaige, especially with a Torgue shotgun. If you want real bullets everywhere, use a conference call. For normal people the bullets go out about 10-20 feet and then split right and left at 90 degrees. Turning the bullet path into a big T shape. For an anarchy gage they first shoot out in a wide cone, and then every pellet breaks up and goes off in two opposite directions it just spreads out everywhere. frodnonnag has a new favorite as of 15:27 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 15:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Borderlands 2 has a ton of guns that aren't just bullet hoses. The problem is they're rare as poo poo, or for the more common ones (the ones given by quests), just aren't very good. For example, one quest gives a shotgun whose pellets fly in a predictable wave fashion instead of spreading out. It sounds good because with skill you can get all of the pellets to hit a single target at range, but in practice the gun doesn't do that much extra damage if all pellets hit, and if you want to shoot things from mid to long range, headshots with an AR or sniper rifle are just way more practical. Fair point regarding the hitscan -but for practical purposes on the regular old bullet guns, it handles the same. You also know exactly what I mean there where LMG/AR/Sniper just end up being the be all end all in raw damage, and the vast majority of those are boring as poo poo (since they handle more or less like hitscan CoD guns). I think a big problem there is that when they get creative with slow projectiles and interesting effects, they tend to overcompensate for how -POTENTIALLY- powerful a gun can be, so when in theory a gun that vomits bouncing globs sounds awesome, actually using the gun in combat is way harder than point and click with the aforementioned hoses. On paper, maybe the glob gun has comparable damage / rof /damage per glob to a normal gun - but in use it falls way behind, usually because of the very same gimmick that makes it cool or interesting. An example I always like to point at is the Bio Rifle from the UT games. It shots -slow-, arcing gravity affected projectiles in a monstrously fast-paced game. It also does insane amounts of damage (and leaves exploding residue - and is more interesting than just about any gun in Borderlands, as a result) - but the horrible handling is compensated by the raw damage potential - where BR has a tendency to balance everything on paper: Each gun needs to do X dps, and whatever mixture of RoF and Per-Bullet reaches that number is how it works out, regardless of if its shooting bullets or slow moving chunks.
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May 13, 2019 15:27
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quote:Fair point regarding the hitscan -but for practical purposes on the regular old bullet guns, it handles the same.
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May 13, 2019 15:36
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Cardiovorax posted:In all fairness, so do real bullets. Real bullets have far more going on than the average shooter bullets, though? Especially considering we're talking about Borderlands - where they're almost-hitscan, you never really need to lead your shots, and they arent affected by gravity or wind or anything else. I mean theres a reason that point and click hitscan(ish) guns are effective in games - but other games have managed to have hitscan weapons alongside slow, ballistic projectiles without the latter being gimmicky garbage - but BL hasn't ever quite managed to find that balance. Look at Anthem (please don't) for an even worse example of squandered potential. Futuristic robot suits on an alien planet...and every gun is a lovely reskin of the same hitscan assault rifle/shotgun. They dont even go so far as to change the colour of your muzzle flare and tracers and gunfire to make it look a little cooler, and everything sounds the same. Then look at the plasma rifle in HL2 - it's an assault rifle with cool effects...(and a hilarious secondary mode) - but a good example of how to dress up a generic gun with visual and audio effects and no -functional- differences from any other hitscan AR. --------- To contribute to the glitches oriented discussion: I've been playing Hunt: Showdown again lately, and encountered an interesting bug wherein the game clearly lost track of my characters state and decided that I was permanently vaulting over a wall. The game lets you hurdle over waist high obstacles, but apparently doesn't like it when something interrupts the transition - like being shot and downed. I got downed while leaping over a wall, and when my team mate revived me, I was stuck in the transition movement - squatting in midair like I was going to poop, and unable to move at anything but walking speed. The cure turned out to be (after a few minutes) vaulting over a gate - which froze my character entirely - and having my team mate open the gate I was trapped on, freeing me from the Vault Plane for good. DarkDobe has a new favorite as of 19:28 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 19:22
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DarkDobe posted:Real bullets have far more going on than the average shooter bullets, though? 
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May 13, 2019 21:52
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Cardiovorax posted:I can't say I've shot all that many of them, comparatively speaking, and I must admit I find it kind of difficult to really understand why this seems to bother you as much as it does. Because a game with 'thousands' of guns boils down to some extremely generic and repetitive 'best in slot' choices, and has kept doing so with every release? That's what bothers me. Other games with 5-10 guns have more variety than all of Borderlands. Like, I loving LOVED Borderlands. The first game ate dozens of hours of my time. But even once all is said and done - I can look back at it and see a very distinct pattern of ending up with some pretty generic and predictable 'best' guns, and everything else feeling sub-par by comparison. Borderlands 2 did a little better with some more creative 'random' designs and unique effects - but as before, the coolest stuff was always too gimmicky to be actually useful, especially against the hyper sponge enemies that define the end game. I never even finished the prequel, but nothing there was jumping out at me as 'different'. I just think they could do far -far- better than they have been by worrying a little less about performance on paper, as such, which so far seems to be a strict limitation on all of their weapon designs and metrics. This is doubly frustrating since its a PVE game - so you don't even have the excuse of balancing around PVP issues. DarkDobe has a new favorite as of 00:45 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 00:39
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It doesn't feel that way to me, because I have had plenty of fun playing around with every kind of gun and "best in slot" has really never been a concern in that regard. If you can get yourself a nice purple of adequate level, basically anything seems to work. The game isn't exactly that difficult. Maybe we have different expectations, though.
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May 14, 2019 00:45
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Cardiovorax posted:It doesn't feel that way to me, because I have had plenty of fun playing around with every kind of gun and "best in slot" has really never been a concern in that regard. If you can get yourself a nice purple of adequate level, basically anything seems to work. The game isn't exactly that difficult. How many of those unique and cool guns actually stayed useful for more than the level or two that you picked them up, though? The game progresses fast enough, and the enemies scale quickly enough that it quickly becomes frustrating, and then tedious, to try and wring a little more out of some fun favourite you found. They could as easily have an option to upgrade your favourite toy - bring it 'up to par' so you can keep using it. Or, gods forbid, let you design your own (but they argue this detracts from the experience of churning through dozens of nearly-identical drops and hoping for something a little better).
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May 14, 2019 00:47
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DarkDobe posted:They could as easily have an option to upgrade your favourite toy - bring it 'up to par' so you can keep using it.
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May 14, 2019 00:52
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Cardiovorax posted:That, I will completely admit, was a real design oversight. I short-circuited the issue by using a Cheat Engine table to rig Moxxie's slot machine and just spawn more legendaries until I got another one of the type I liked, but that is hardly optimal and I hope they come up with something better for the next game. Oh I ended up crafting my own guns in BL1 using an editor, too - and you can get some pretty fancy ones - but even dialed to 11, the 'unique' guns fall waaay short of the generics like the Maliwan Inferno god smg. That's sort of going back on how they seem to balance stuff on paper rather than in practice - which, their big rng tables considered makes some sense, but also sort of a nonsensical fear of 'unbalancing' a pve game. I never got to loving around with BL2 weaponry cheating and probably missed out on some more exotic stuff? I think they could do way more with elemental effects and effects on hit, on kill, etc. Theres so much room for creativity but the most 'exotic' gun I remember is a shotgun that shoots swords (that are just grenade reskins). This might sound far fetched but compare to EDF - a dorky 3rd person shooter, with some very defined weapon archetypes... Yet they go absolutely apeshit with the variants. Like looking at rocket launchers you have: Single shot Multi shot, rapid fire Shotgun style Then you add homing variants Laser guided variants.. Still pretty normal but: Variants that fly slower than you can walk Micro missiles that shoot in bursts of 50 like angry bees, fast or slow A series of launchers that shoots the missiles straight up and into arcing mortars A version of the above that launches basically a scud - a giant missile that flies off the map for 30 seconds, then comes down and levels a city block (and you if you're not careful) Then you get deployable turrets that mount the above I'm sure you get the idea - for what is a single archetype, they have about 30 different variants, and a significant number of them handle and force you to play entirely differently.
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May 14, 2019 01:13
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DarkDobe posted:Oh I ended up crafting my own guns in BL1 using an editor, too - and you can get some pretty fancy ones - but even dialed to 11, the 'unique' guns fall waaay short of the generics like the Maliwan Inferno god smg. That's sort of going back on how they seem to balance stuff on paper rather than in practice - which, their big rng tables considered makes some sense, but also sort of a nonsensical fear of 'unbalancing' a pve game. I never got to loving around with BL2 weaponry cheating and probably missed out on some more exotic stuff? And because they have a rigid, full-reset, predefined-enemies mission structure, they get to play around with stuff like "you can't reload it" and "it regenerates ammunition" as well. There are missions where taking along a one-shot guaranteed-kill stinger missile is a really solid option, and missions where if you don't have a close-range weapon that will last a while you're just straight hosed.
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May 14, 2019 01:42
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I somehow got myself into a situation in one of the BL2 dlcs where the enemies were insanely spongey (talking like 40 bullets from my strongest gun) yet only yielded 1xp
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May 14, 2019 01:50
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Regular Nintendo posted:I somehow got myself into a situation in one of the BL2 dlcs where the enemies were insanely spongey (talking like 40 bullets from my strongest gun) yet only yielded 1xp That can definitely happen if you're in the >30 level range, because the enemies just get massively stronger and if your guns don't keep up you can be in a world of hurt. How well does EDF hold up for solo play? Is 4.1 (the one on Steam) worthwhile? I've heard the series can be a bit uneven.
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May 14, 2019 01:54
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:How well does EDF hold up for solo play? Is 4.1 (the one on Steam) worthwhile? I've heard the series can be a bit uneven.
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May 14, 2019 01:57
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4.1 is perfectly playable solo, though some of the classes have an easier time of it than others.
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May 14, 2019 02:01
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Somfin posted:And because they have a rigid, full-reset, predefined-enemies mission structure, they get to play around with stuff like "you can't reload it" and "it regenerates ammunition" as well. There are missions where taking along a one-shot guaranteed-kill stinger missile is a really solid option, and missions where if you don't have a close-range weapon that will last a while you're just straight hosed. BL could play with those sorts of effects too, I think? A gun that only reloads when you punch people with it. This could just be a modifier on -any- gun, with a trade off for it doing more damage or something. A gun that does nothing within X range - but makes up for it with crazy damage to enemies farther away (an anti-shotgun??). Again - this can just be a modifier. Weapons that detonate enemies, with damage scaling off how much you pumped into them. Another (failed) title that comes to mind was Loadout. The premise there was a third person PVP (this being a huge source of balance woes) arena shooter - where you could build your own guns from a borderlands styled roster of pieces. You could pick an archetype (Rifle, Shotgun, Launcher, Beamgun) and pick an element for it - or make it into a healing weapon. Standard stuff. Then you could play with mag size, rate of fire, number of barrels - all of these trading off towards an average 'dps' efficacy. You could change the projectiles. You could make them faster (less damage) slower (for more) you could make them bounce. You could willfully give up accuracy for damage, make them bigger or smaller. You could turn them into giant spiked balls that roll around instead of flying. The launchers let you shoot contact explosives, gravity affected explosives (grenades). Sticky bombs with timers, remote triggers, proximity triggers, timed proximity triggers. Remote controlled missiles like the Redeemer, laser guided rockets, or dumbfire cluster explosives. The different elements themselves changed how the projectiles behaved - electric sticky rockets acted like tazers in an aoe before exploding. Ultimately the game came apart at the seams for a lot of reasons, leas of all being - and this is familiar - trying to curb 'best in slot' designs which, more often than not were boring, hitscan high-damage sniper style weapons/launchers. Really though.. I just want a shock rifle please!
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May 14, 2019 02:02
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