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Boksi posted:The water sieve doesn't get rid of germs. I don't recall if that matters at all for irrigation, but you really don't want germy water being used to fill up water coolers or make liceloaf, that's a recipe for mass food poisoning. The water sieve also outputs 40C water which is too hot for bristle blossoms.
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May 9, 2019 19:47
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Something is funky with my oxygen use/production. Did they change the rates of those in the last update? Or Does the game consider polluted oxygen produced by standing pwater “oxygen production”? Or Is there something else going on I’m not catching?
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May 9, 2019 22:46
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probably your deodorizers
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May 10, 2019 02:07
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Could be, but now I’m thinking it may be my mini-SPOM that’s feeding a bank of exo suits. I noticed the dupes weren’t actually using them much, so the electrolyzer wasn’t running often. I was getting a lot of “insufficient production” warnings.
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May 10, 2019 02:24
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How many resources can you get from just ranching? What would you need that animals can't produce, for a self sustaining base? Water and oxygen for sure. This includes taking nothing but flatulent dupes for some NG.
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May 13, 2019 04:56
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Admiral Joeslop posted:How many resources can you get from just ranching? What would you need that animals can't produce, for a self sustaining base? Water and oxygen for sure. This includes taking nothing but flatulent dupes for some NG. Funny that you bring this up. I just scrapped a playthrough because I had too much in the way of animals to the point it was starting to lag the game. I'm now trying to do a ranching light playthrough and I was considering what I can only get from animals (eggshells mostly). You can get oxygen from morbs, polluted and slimelunged though. Dupes actually produce water, you could use gulp fish to purify that.
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May 13, 2019 05:58
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A colony completely sustained by ranching only sounds like a neat experiment that I'm not experienced enough to do. Probably more viable once the inevitable "Prepare Carefully" mod comes out. Can anyone explain to me, like I'm an idiot, how to setup geysers for use? Edit: Does the size of a stable affect how many creatures you can have in that room? Should I try to make every stable the max size? Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 14:43 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 14:35
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Admiral Joeslop posted:A colony completely sustained by ranching only sounds like a neat experiment that I'm not experienced enough to do. Probably more viable once the inevitable "Prepare Carefully" mod comes out. A lot depends on what kind of geyser. I usually build a double wall vacuum-insulated box around it, toss in a liquid pump one tile below anything else in the area, run power lines/pipes in, seal it up and then put the output in to a reservoir of similar materials (polluted water in to polluted water, clean in to clean, etc.) then manage all of my resources from those reservoirs. One wrinkle is polluted slush geysers, I sometimes loop their output around somewhere and try to absorb as much heat as I can before dumping it in to my reservoir which is usually either seived or kept hot for pincha or something. Natural gas geysers I usually put a fairly large box around around them. They stop at 5kg pressure and tend to blast it all out in a few cycles so the space buffers it to store more gas. Molten metal geysers I usually just drown in a ton of water and hoover up the solidified metal. I have experimented with using it to boil-purify polluted water but it was a finnicky pain in the rear end, don't recommend it.
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May 13, 2019 16:38
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Copper volcanoes are especially a pain in the rear end because copper holds onto it's heat way harder than other metals. So while dumping gold and iron into liquid cools it quickly, copper still takes multiple multiple cycles to cool off
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May 13, 2019 20:37
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I sure wish dupes wouldn't spend half a cycle running to a single tile, gated behind an exosuit checkpoint, to disinfect it.
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May 13, 2019 21:54
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User0015 posted:Copper volcanoes are especially a pain in the rear end because copper holds onto it's heat way harder than other metals. So while dumping gold and iron into liquid cools it quickly, copper still takes multiple multiple cycles to cool off Iron is actually the most difficult one - it comes out hotter than copper and has higher specific heat capacity. Gold comes out hotter still, but has lower specific heat. This was my hands-free gold geyser setup in my latest game.   Pretty straightfoward - dump a bunch of liquid on the ground, then pipe a cold liquid behind it, and let a sweeper pick up the metal. I used petroleum for both liquids, which is ideal as a coolant because you can get it really cold or really hot without it freezing/boiling and breaking pipes. At the other end of the conveyor rail I had it drop into a small pool with another coolant pipe behind it so the gold wouldn't be too hot, but that turned out to be unnecessary because it cools down plenty in the couple of seconds it takes for the sweeper to pick it up - you might need to do that for iron, though. This is a generally useful approach for cooling all sorts of things, like polymer presses and steam turbines. Just keep it as a shallow puddle if it's a building or it'll flood and stop working. To cool the coolant you can build a central room full of hydrogen that you stack with every wheezewort you can find, and then if it's still too hot, run it through some aquatuners in your polluted water tank. I had a central coolant loop with a series of valves that portioned out coolant to side-loops leading to the various areas of the colony, according to how much cooling each area needed.
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May 13, 2019 22:38
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Sipher posted:I sure wish dupes wouldn't spend half a cycle running to a single tile, gated behind an exosuit checkpoint, to disinfect it. Slimelung germs can spread from slime to adjacent tiles. This is what is usually happening when dupes disinfect seemingly random tiles.
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May 13, 2019 22:43
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Well I already have a favorite mod, self-sealing airlocks. It makes the airlocks actually functions as airlocks. Yeah, you could build a water lock and I've done that, but those are tedious and not in my opinion particularly fun. Here are some of the predictable steam comments: "Mod for people who want to cheat." "Thumb down, sorry. This is not what this game is about." "Why do people feel the need to cheat everything in this game? Can you not just play the game properly with water air locks or air locks with gaspumps?" "Its like removing an episode of the game."
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May 13, 2019 23:02
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The real crime is that there isn't a buildable actual airlock. Like, I would be totally down to have it require advanced materials. But it should exist in a game where gas management plays such a vital role.
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May 13, 2019 23:18
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Smiling Demon posted:Well I already have a favorite mod, self-sealing airlocks. It makes the airlocks actually functions as airlocks. Yeah, you could build a water lock and I've done that, but those are tedious and not in my opinion particularly fun. Oh, drat, YES. Are the mods hosted on Steam?
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May 13, 2019 23:19
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Anyways, my favorite mod is the one that eliminates the static 40 C output of sieves and the like.
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May 13, 2019 23:34
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This guy Cairath makes a bunch of good, lightweight mods. No-brainer UI-improvement type things: Bigger Building Menu Draw Buildings Without Materials Bigger Camera Zoom Out Geyser Calculated Average Output Tooltip Germ Exposure Notification Ones that actually affect gameplay, cheating not only the game but yourself, etc: Deconstructable POI Props Suit Dock Stores 75kg Oxygen
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May 13, 2019 23:49
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Oh, drat, YES. Are the mods hosted on Steam? The airlock one is. I've been meaning to try the mod that changes the sieve output temperature. I tend to abuse the fixed 40C output a lot, with my primary loop being from the toilets to the metal refinery (looping there until it gets too hot) then to the sieve.
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May 14, 2019 02:23
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Triarii posted:*metal volcano setup* Francis John has a video detailing (in survival) a really neat volcano setup - cools the metal and harnesses the heat with a steam turbine. My first attempt before seeing that was just to vacuum out the chamber, put some water in, then let it flash to steam and run through a turbine and recirculate the hot water. This worked well enough, but it meant the gold that I sucked out with an autosweeper was always ~125C which was frustrating to deal with. The setup he built uses an aquatuner to regulate the temperature so you can always get the gold out at around ~30C, while partially recouping the cost of running with the steam turbine. It's probably overbuilt, but I've copied the setup in one of my survival games with minor modifications and it works extremely well without any upkeep and spits out 30C gold at a steady rate. I haven't built it on copper and iron yet, but it's super robust so it should handle those without any issues. The main downside is that you'll need about 2 tons or so of steel to make the fully capable version, though parts if it could probably be built with other metals without too many downsides, just some slower cooling and a very slight risk of melting a couple parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38M07EuUcwo
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May 14, 2019 02:45
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  I'm slowly learning. That's a CO2 vent to the right of the base, going to be right on top of my new Slickster stable so they'll never go hungry. Off to the left are a cool steam vent and cool slush geyser. I didn't know the cool slush was polluted water instead of regular water before I found it, I'll need to figure out what to do with that. Probably going to dump excess water from my bathrooms into the Puft room down below so it doesn't get backed up. Should also likely move that waterlock up next to the door of the new Slickster stable. Automation is a lot easier than I figured. This is the seed: https://toolsnotincluded.net/seeds/10845966/312713
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May 14, 2019 03:23
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Taffer posted:Francis John has a video detailing (in survival) a really neat volcano setup - cools the metal and harnesses the heat with a steam turbine. My first attempt before seeing that was just to vacuum out the chamber, put some water in, then let it flash to steam and run through a turbine and recirculate the hot water. This worked well enough, but it meant the gold that I sucked out with an autosweeper was always ~125C which was frustrating to deal with. The setup he built uses an aquatuner to regulate the temperature so you can always get the gold out at around ~30C, while partially recouping the cost of running with the steam turbine. It's probably overbuilt, but I've copied the setup in one of my survival games with minor modifications and it works extremely well without any upkeep and spits out 30C gold at a steady rate. I haven't built it on copper and iron yet, but it's super robust so it should handle those without any issues. The main downside is that you'll need about 2 tons or so of steel to make the fully capable version, though parts if it could probably be built with other metals without too many downsides, just some slower cooling and a very slight risk of melting a couple parts. What I actually moved to when I had a good supply of steel was to use my petroleum coolant loop to bring all of my excess heat into one room which had 5 steel aquatuners, a drip feed of polluted water, and several steam turbines. Same idea, but centralized so the setup at each heat-producing location is simple (just some radiant pipes) and more easily expandable when I start producing/receiving more heat, while also being a bonus water purifier. Also, I think once you can get your hands on super coolant, it also starts violating the laws of thermodynamics and producing more power than it consumes.
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May 14, 2019 06:08
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I'm slowly learning.
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May 14, 2019 06:22
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bird food bathtub posted:Molten metal geysers I usually just drown in a ton of water and hoover up the solidified metal. I have experimented with using it to boil-purify polluted water but it was a finnicky pain in the rear end, don't recommend it. I can agree with this. Too many things can go wrong. I think it'd be best to make a setup in creative first.
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May 14, 2019 07:28
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Triarii posted:Also, I think once you can get your hands on super coolant, it also starts violating the laws of thermodynamics and producing more power than it consumes. At the end of the day this is probably the thing that annoys me most about this game. It has huge reliance on analogs of real-world physics of temperature and gasses and then also just.... completely throws them out the window at random. When I first started this was really confusing. I have no problem with certain magic things like the AETN and wheezeworts - they're not presented as thermodynamically realistic and are obviously important for gameplay reasons. It's the other things, like a water sieve magically producing or destroying massive amounts of heat for no goddamn reason at all, lots of machines having set output temperatures that have no consistent values or basis. To make it worse, none of the tooltips describe this so you just kind of have to stumble around and discover it. Like, if I make this carbon scrubber am I going to get 70C water for no reason? Who knows! Because that's how the electrolyzer and the water sieve behave, and probably a lot of other stuff I can't remember. I wish it leaned more on heat management that can make some kind of intuitive sense. Wheezeworts make "sense" in the game logic, and the steam turbine makes sense in real-world logic (to a point) of converting one type of energy to another, so it behaves like you expect. Similarly the aquatuner moves heat around in predictable manners. Then they flip the reasonable logic of those machines around and create the ice machine, which magically produces shitload of cooling without creating an equal amount of heat. Like.... what? Why?
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May 14, 2019 07:50
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And when you mod out these heat deleters, nothing much changes except you have a bit more heat to deal with and everything makes sense. There is no weird side effect or added confusion. It is just a mechanic I cannot understand.
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May 14, 2019 09:11
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Looks like it. Check your bathroom, it looks like there are two things you could easily improve. One deals with morale, the other with heat. Or I could be wrong because they changed with the mk3 update. Forgot to put a door in after digging out space for the sieve, and that compost pile doesn't do anyone any good for staying cool. I'll have a real washroom up in a bit though. I've been watching Grind This Game play on a new map and I can tell I've been too worried about small things. The last time I played, Slimelung was a giant issue if someone got sick so I've been too cautious with it.
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May 14, 2019 12:19
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Yeah the reason I ended up not playing this game is because a lot of the weird heat mechanics were bugging me. Now I just look at peoples bases and go "that's cool".
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May 14, 2019 12:44
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I can't wait until someone mods in ethanol geysers, stills and alcoholism. I also wish negative traits gave something that is potentially beneficial. Flatulent gives actual gas you can use, allergies and the various "Can't do X" are just negatives.
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May 14, 2019 16:30
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I think the set temperature thing with sieves and skimmers is more of a make the early game harder feature than anything else. It’s probably an outdated concept in that regard. It’s easy enough to mod away at least.
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May 14, 2019 16:55
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Smiling Demon posted:self-sealing airlocks. I was literally going to make this mod if Klei didn't give us something besides goofy water locks. Gonna install this mod asap. Hopefully they'll make gas management a little more interesting in the future.
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May 14, 2019 23:24
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Automation seemed so scary to me before. Now I have a gas sensor at the level of my base where I don't want CO2. It's hooked up to a skimmer, which pulls from my water supply, into a sieve, which goes back into the water supply, all hooked up to coal on smart batteries. And none of it wastes any power/water unless the CO2 starts building up.
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May 15, 2019 15:24
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I'm in the same boat on that and it's fun to figure out new ways to simplify things. I need to get over the same hump with material shipment. Do people just set up sweepers to auto-throw debris onto a conveyor to take away or is it still largely reliant on dupe work?
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May 15, 2019 16:34
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Mazz posted:I think the set temperature thing with sieves and skimmers is more of a make the early game harder feature than anything else. It’s probably an outdated concept in that regard. It’s easy enough to mod away at least.
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May 15, 2019 16:40
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Pleads posted:I'm in the same boat on that and it's fun to figure out new ways to simplify things. Building a power line, conveyor tracks and a loader somewhere just to pick up some debris is a lot of work for little return. I use sweepers for repetitive, fixed tasks. As an example my mushroom farms have the slime collection point towards the middle in enough water to prevent gassing. One sweeper can then pull from that inventory to fertilize like 14 mushrooms I think, the instant it needs more slime without traveling and at any time day or night. That's a perfect place for a sweeper because now your farmer dupe isn't running all over the place and then turning back every 30 seconds to fill up one mushroom.
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May 15, 2019 17:03
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I've got a sweeper feeding my mushrooms and my coal, but everything else is manual right now. I think I'm still wrapping my head around the different shipping components and how things interact with each. Getting my mushrooms sent automagically to the kitchen, and the kitchen food to the dining room, is the next logical step right?
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May 15, 2019 17:20
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I use sweepers to: - auto-fill water sieves and coal generators - supply and store for refineries, kilns and composts - supply farm tiles and ship harvested food to the CO2 cellar beneath the kitchen - supply the grill with ingredients from the CO2 cellar and put cooked food in the fridges there (this one is my favorite) - I should setup a conveyor from that CO2 cellar towards the solo (powered) fridge in the mess hall, but for some reason I tend to forget - if you ever are going to setup a Shole Vole farm it pretty much needs a sweeper and auto-miner - I usually put a conveyor loader before and after the atmo suits so duplicates put stuff in there that they picked up outside the inner base. From there it gets shipped to a general storage area with lots of storage containers.  (note that when the storage containers fill up you could just remove the sweepers and turn it into another row of 9 containers) Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 17:40
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hopefully we'll get the final preview patch tomorrow
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May 15, 2019 19:35
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Automation seemed so scary to me before. Now I have a gas sensor at the level of my base where I don't want CO2. It's hooked up to a skimmer, which pulls from my water supply, into a sieve, which goes back into the water supply, all hooked up to coal on smart batteries. One little thing I came to realize in my last game: once you have automation, you actually only need a smart battery, singular. Or one per power generator type, so you can prioritize which type turns on first. I had one battery hooked up to my coal, and then one for natural gas and one for petroleum generators. I went through most of the game like that, with no more than three batteries total for power storage. It does change a bit when you get solar panels, since you have no control of their output, so you want a large capacity to handle the surplus during the day which you then use up during the night.
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May 15, 2019 22:17
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Latest colony is still going kind of strong at 367 cycles. I spent a long time doing setup stuff instead of exploring. Things I learned: -AETNs have limits. The one I setup wasn't keeping my Oxygen cold. Probably should have just snaked the pipes through the cold more, or let everything cool down before I started the SPOM. -Speaking of a SPOM, I wasn't able to get the SP part going, unless that still includes coal power. Maybe I should setup some gas containers to store hydrogen and run more electrolyzers. -Smart batteries really helped with coal usage but I did run out eventually, even with a hatch farm. Too many generators, I was slow getting to the NG geyser. -Oil stuff is super hot you guys. -My plumbing was a spider's web of a mess. Gotta be better next time. Same with power cords snaking everywhere. Is the AETN location a good spot for a sleet wheat farm? Just use the same water coming to the electrolyzers. Dirt could eventually be a problem. Do any of you use the espresso/arcade/boom box? They're so power heavy.
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May 16, 2019 03:16
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Yeah AETNs are kind of weak for how much trouble they are. I didn't bother with them at all in my last game and didn't regret it. (I also didn't bother cooling my oxygen specifically; I just cooled any area that got hot, which my main base never did.) Natural gas geysers are going to be kind of disappointing in their total power output, and are more of a supplemental power source than a solution to all your power needs. Petroleum generators have been my go-to next step for reliable power when coal starts to run low. Don't forget to build a power control station to beef up their output. I would honestly not bother with a sleet wheat farm - certainly not before you're at the "endgame" and probably not even then. I found that passive morale bonuses from rooms and and decent decor were enough to keep dupes happy even when they had practically every skill trained up and were just eating fried mushrooms. I did use all of the rec room gadgets - they do draw a ton of power so you have to set up separate circuits for them which is annoying, but they're barely ever actually turned on, so they aren't a big drain on your fuel reserves or anything.
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May 16, 2019 04:12
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