Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

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Djeser: Mar 22, 2013; it's crow time again

Fruity20 posted:

I'm paranoid as stated before...And i feel like many stories i write or develop largely have young protags (11-21). I can't pull off a believable adult without them becoming a manchild at best to feeling like a child's view on a grown up at worst...

Great, you know that your brain does this to you, so now you can take steps to mitigate that so you can write.

The only thing that's going to get you better at writing is to write. Write more, keep writing, write bad things, write terribly written adults, write cliche teen romances--because each time you write them, you're going to get a little bit better at getting at what you want.

# ? May 13, 2019 15:52

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# ? May 11, 2024 10:07

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Fruity20 posted:

I'm paranoid as stated before...And i feel like many stories i write or develop largely have young protags (11-21). I can't pull off a believable adult without them becoming a manchild at best to feeling like a child's view on a grown up at worst...

Could you please listen to what people are telling you. The only way to write is to write, so do it and then rewrite it when it is terrible. It's ok to be terrible. Be terrible. I require you to be terrible. Be all the terrible you can be, Fruity20.

# ? May 14, 2019 01:39

Anomalous Blowout: Feb 13, 2006; rock
ice
storm
abyss

It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars.

*

Fruity20 posted:

I�m paranoid as stated before�And i feel like many stories i write or develop largely have young protags (11-21). I can�t pull off a believable adult without them becoming a manchild at best to feeling like a child�s view on a grown up at worst�

It�s really tough for us to give advice on stuff like this without seeing what you�re writing. Are you simply worried that your adults will seem juvenile? Or have people told you this?

If it�s all worry for something that you haven�t even written yet, then you�re just making yourself anxious over something that has yet to happen and not much advice we give beyond �try to write� will help you, because we don�t know what the problems are if you can�t show us any writing yet.

Remember that writing is just like visual art, which you say you are experienced with: it�s okay to draw more than one draft of stuff. It�s okay to �sketch� before you try to write a polished draft. It�s okay to practice and then just throw it away. You don�t have to work yourself up into a frenzy over whether your writing will be great on the first attempt because it�s totally fine if it�s poo poo. You can just do it over however many times you need to make it good.

# ? May 14, 2019 01:57

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1TCSr1_j0HmUktGMHVlbXRGbUk/view?usp=sharing

it's the closest i could find (however it isn't prose)

# ? May 14, 2019 02:55

FormerPoster: Aug 5, 2004; Hair Elf

Fruity20 posted:

here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1TCSr1_j0HmUktGMHVlbXRGbUk/view?usp=sharing

it's the closest i could find (however it isn't prose)

Starting with 'it was all a dream' and then seguing that into 'first day of school'...I don't know if picking the two most cliched beginnings and slamming them together is genius or insane.

# ? May 14, 2019 04:39

SurreptitiousMuffin: Mar 21, 2010

sebmojo posted:

Could you please listen to what people are telling you. The only way to write is to write, so do it and then rewrite it when it is terrible. It's ok to be terrible. Be terrible. I require you to be terrible. Be all the terrible you can be, Fruity20.

This is an excellent piece of advice. The first 1000 things you write are gonna suck. I've been writing a short story a week for a decade and I'm just now at a state where I'm occasionally happy with my own writing.

The first story I ever wrote was about a kid on a trip to the museum who got teleported back to ancient egypt when he touched a mummy, then he woke up in his bed. It was all a dream ... or was it?!? because there was sand in his hand so it's like maybe it wasn't a dream. Now I get invited to fancy literary things where there's free wine and you'd better bet I wouldn't be smashing back free platters of fancy cheese if I'd given up because I sucked. I sucked for a solid 20 years and even now I'm not convinced.

# ? May 14, 2019 06:04

Exmond: May 31, 2007; Writing is fun!

Fruity20 posted:

here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1TCSr1_j0HmUktGMHVlbXRGbUk/view?usp=sharing

it's the closest i could find (however it isn't prose)

This is okay. You make the protagonist sympathetic, there�s some questions raised about the character and each character is introduced with a quirk. I don�t do enough scriptwriting to give a detailed critique but if this is what your writing you don�t need to be ashamed.

I mean it�s not a story about a murderous horror bee or abbots drinking piss. And it�s better then some self published things I have read.

# ? May 14, 2019 06:09

Djeser: Mar 22, 2013; it's crow time again

Fruity20 posted:

here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1TCSr1_j0HmUktGMHVlbXRGbUk/view?usp=sharing

it's the closest i could find (however it isn't prose)

Thanks for posting this. Looking over it, I recognize a lot of stuff that's common in writers who are getting started and trying to figure out how to write. This goes both for the simple typos or bungled phrases that are easy to catch with an editing pass, and with the broader plot structure.

From reading this, I get the sense that you're interested in telling stories, and you've got a certain type of story that you like, but at the same time, you don't have enough practice (yet) to construct a story wholecloth, so it's made out of bits and pieces of other things that you liked and that you want to write about. Now, this isn't a bad way to create the broad strokes of a story. The last book that I finished, the author explicitly set out to make a hybrid of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Eurovision. But you want your story, at the nuts-and-bolts level, to be yours, and right now it feels more like an amalgam of things you know should be there, things that are important to the genre, but which you don't know how to work in naturally yet.

Everyone starts out like this. One of the first stories I wrote tried to kludge the plots of Myst and Myst III together, because I really liked those games and those were what good stories felt like to me. One of the big parts of growing as a writer is learning how to write in a way that is you. Just like an artist's style, it's something that you're going to keep developing for as long as you write.

The trick to developing your skills as a writer is that there is no trick. Just like art, it takes practice. Not just practice getting words onto a page, though that is more important than anything else, but practice reading and editing your work. The more you write, the more you develop your skills. The more you read your writing, the more you understand where you're weak and where you can push yourself. The more you edit your writing, the better you get at turning the raw inspiration of a rough draft into a polished piece--and it'll make you better at writing, because it'll teach you what to watch for.

So, to summarize so you don't get lost in the weeds:

Write more. The best and fastest way to get better at writing is to write. Allow yourself the freedom to write poorly, because writing is how you get better.
Read your own writing. Do it out loud. This is supremely embarrassing, but it's the best way to find out if your prose stumbles. Whisper, if you have to.
You will get better. It takes time to get good at something. No one is an award-winning author the first time they put finger to keyboard. But with every new story you'll write, you'll learn, you'll get better, and you'll see that in your next story, and the next, and the next.

# ? May 14, 2019 06:20

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

almost done with charred

one or two more chapters to go, blasted out a 5K conversation that signified the end tonight

sitting pretty at 88 K, lean and mean. now I'm going to pass out and go to sleep

# ? May 14, 2019 08:10

REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS: Oct 3, 2003; What do you think it means, bitch?

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Now I get invited to fancy literary things where there's free wine and you'd better bet I wouldn't be smashing back free platters of fancy cheese if I'd given up because I sucked. I sucked for a solid 20 years and even now I'm not convinced.

So there�s free cheese at the end of the tunnel? I knew it! Fate was going to make my suffering worth it!

# ? May 14, 2019 09:24

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

Nae! posted:

Starting with 'it was all a dream' and then seguing that into 'first day of school'...I don't know if picking the two most cliched beginnings and slamming them together is genius or insane.

this was an old version of one of my stories...naturally it's...freaking bad. later renditions removed those in favor of something more in media res-ish? (also, john is no longer a boy but a teenage black female as I found it hard to make a convincing middle schooler).

Djeser posted:

Thanks for posting this. Looking over it, I recognize a lot of stuff that's common in writers who are getting started and trying to figure out how to write. This goes both for the simple typos or bungled phrases that are easy to catch with an editing pass, and with the broader plot structure.

From reading this, I get the sense that you're interested in telling stories, and you've got a certain type of story that you like, but at the same time, you don't have enough practice (yet) to construct a story wholecloth, so it's made out of bits and pieces of other things that you liked and that you want to write about. Now, this isn't a bad way to create the broad strokes of a story. The last book that I finished, the author explicitly set out to make a hybrid of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Eurovision. But you want your story, at the nuts-and-bolts level, to be yours, and right now it feels more like an amalgam of things you know should be there, things that are important to the genre, but which you don't know how to work in naturally yet.

Everyone starts out like this. One of the first stories I wrote tried to kludge the plots of Myst and Myst III together, because I really liked those games and those were what good stories felt like to me. One of the big parts of growing as a writer is learning how to write in a way that is you. Just like an artist's style, it's something that you're going to keep developing for as long as you write.

The trick to developing your skills as a writer is that there is no trick. Just like art, it takes practice. Not just practice getting words onto a page, though that is more important than anything else, but practice reading and editing your work. The more you write, the more you develop your skills. The more you read your writing, the more you understand where you're weak and where you can push yourself. The more you edit your writing, the better you get at turning the raw inspiration of a rough draft into a polished piece--and it'll make you better at writing, because it'll teach you what to watch for.

So, to summarize so you don't get lost in the weeds:

Write more. The best and fastest way to get better at writing is to write. Allow yourself the freedom to write poorly, because writing is how you get better.

Read your own writing. Do it out loud. This is supremely embarrassing, but it's the best way to find out if your prose stumbles. Whisper, if you have to.

You will get better. It takes time to get good at something. No one is an award-winning author the first time they put finger to keyboard. But with every new story you'll write, you'll learn, you'll get better, and you'll see that in your next story, and the next, and the next.

I read too much tvtropes honestly. The shows I grew up with were anime and action cartoons that naturally inspired a few ideas in my writing...believe it or now. The Frankenstein mish-mash is noticeable I must admit. when i first pitched the idea, it was like hybrid of captain planet and w.i.t.c.h....sans captain planet himself. I've gotten a bit better I must admit but my esteem issues and perfectionist is a bitch sometimes...

Exmond posted:

This is okay. You make the protagonist sympathetic, there’s some questions raised about the character and each character is introduced with a quirk. I don’t do enough scriptwriting to give a detailed critique but if this is what your writing you don’t need to be ashamed.

I mean it’s not a story about a murderous horror bee or abbots drinking piss. And it’s better then some self published things I have read.

that's reassuring (and I'm being sincere). Yea, I kinda got into script-writing as I found doing full on prose isn't my style (mainly because I lack a mind's eye to describe things in depth enough that it could fill 200 pages worth of story..)

# ? May 14, 2019 13:43

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Fruity20 posted:

I read too much tvtropes honestly. The shows I grew up with were anime and action cartoons that naturally inspired a few ideas in my writing...believe it or now. The Frankenstein mish-mash is noticeable I must admit.

This isn't a bad thing tbh, just know that TVTropes spends all its time cataloging lists so that CinemaSins can quote them and yell "SIN! THIS STUPID CHARACTER SAID SOMETHING STUPID! PLOT HOLE! BAD WRITING!" - it doesn't actually speak to quality at all, just that south parkian "hey this is a thing you recognize." There's plenty of legit great novels inspired by "dumb" poo poo - Nick Harkaway's a great example of an author making fantastic books out of traditionally juvenile things. The Gone Away World is dream martial arts, Tigerman is superheroes, Angelmaker is steampunk Guy Ritchie... It's not important to be inspired by "greats of literature" or bullshit like that.

Hell, my current WIP is What If Pirates, Tho, and my next planned project is Mongolian Cowboys And Blitzball, Why Not. Don't put down or belittle your influences; we've all got reasons for writing, and they're all good reasons. Even the bad ones.

Just make sure you're trying your hardest to accept the really terrible poo poo you write (we all write really terrible poo poo, this isn't a personal attack) as something that can be polished into greatness, eventually, but it sure as gently caress ain't gunna come out that way. Not on purpose, at least.

# ? May 14, 2019 14:57

Daric: Dec 23, 2007; Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.

My current book is "What if the Aurors from Harry Potter were American and in the Old West" with some other things mixed in so don't be afraid to mix things up a bit.

# ? May 14, 2019 16:21

Pixelante: Mar 16, 2006; You people will by God act like a team, or at least like people who know each other, or I'll incinerate the bunch of you here and now.

I finished writing (the first draft of) a whole book. :toot:

Next phase is me editing it, and after that I think I'm going to hire an editor friend to polish it up with me.

Any advice on finding an agent? It's a memoir style non-fiction story about my E/N journey after the death of my mother left me to deal with my disabled brother and sick father. It was hellish, but the progress of things makes it a decent narrative. I figured I'd go to the bookstore and look for stories with a similar format, but wanted to see if goons have any experience around this part of the process.

# ? May 14, 2019 19:52

FormerPoster: Aug 5, 2004; Hair Elf

Pixelante posted:

I finished writing (the first draft of) a whole book. Next phase is me editing it, and after that I think I'm going to hire an editor friend to polish it up with me.

Any advice on finding an agent? It's a memoir style non-fiction story about my E/N journey after the death of my mother left me to deal with my disabled brother and sick father. It was hellish, but the progress of things makes it a decent narrative. I figured I'd go to the bookstore and look for stories with a similar format, but wanted to see if goons have any experience around this part of the process.

Save yourself the trip to the bookstore and go on Amazon, search through memoirs until you find a few that are similar to your own, then google who their agents are (if they have them). Most author will usually thank their agents in the acknowledgements section of their books as well, but that's not usually something you can see for free on Amazon. That's where going to a bookstore in person makes more sense, assuming you strike out with google.

Also you can just sign up for QueryTracker and look for agents who take memoir. Full disclosure, I've only ever used it for fiction so I'm not certain they even have non-fiction/memoir agents on there, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

# ? May 14, 2019 21:52

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

How complex is the process of publishing? (I'm not super interested in the endeavor since most of my ideas are super out-there but it's fun to learn new things).

# ? May 15, 2019 16:13

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Fruity20 posted:

How complex is the process of publishing? (I'm not super interested in the endeavor since most of my ideas are super out-there but it's fun to learn new things).

Do you mean self publishing or getting published? Neither is all that particularly complicated but there are definitely lots of things to consider to be increase the chances of success.

# ? May 15, 2019 16:29

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Fruity20 posted:

How complex is the process of publishing? (I'm not super interested in the endeavor since most of my ideas are super out-there but it's fun to learn new things).

'Publishing' is a pretty broad word. It could be as simple as emailing a short story to a magazine, or it could be as complicated as doing all of your own cover designs and marketing and so on.

Traditional publishing is probably simpler than self-publishing; once you get your manuscript prepped and your query written, it's pretty much up to agents and publishers to get your work out there, should they choose to accept it. You're going to be dealing with a LOT of rejection, though.

Self-publishing seems to be a lot more work (I have no personal experience with this), but it also allows you to release your content on your own terms. Still, you're responsible for editing, formatting, graphic design, and marketing.

Actually, just read this good quote from the OP:

Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS:
- Publishing
- Writing Tools
- Book Recommendations
- Mental Struggles and Substance Abuse

PUBLISHING

Now that you have a finished, well-polished piece of fiction, you are ready to start thinking about publishing. Oh, you don�t? Then none of this matters right now.

There are three main ways of publishing novels: Traditional publishing through one of the �Big Five� publishers and their many imprints, publishing through a small press, and self-publishing.

(See bottom of this post for publishing short stories.)

Traditional Publishing with the Big Five

This is it! You�re a star now! No wait, you�re a bottom- or mid-list author barely making a living, whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyy??? Maybe I shouldn�t preface this section with such depressing words, but it�s the truth. Even moderately successful authors aren�t the stars you think of when you think of published authors. Consider this: how many published authors can you name? Is it one hundred? Is it one hundred currently publishing authors in the genre that you want to write in? Okay, this is just depressing. Here�s the thing: getting published isn�t like becoming the next J. K. Rowling or whoever. It�s probably more like becoming the next Marissa Meyer if you are insanely lucky. No, not the Yahoo lady, that�s Marissa Mayer. See what I mean now?

If you�re going to try this route, it�s worth knowing a bit about the industry. There are five huge publishing companies in the US market: Penguin Random House, Hachette, Macmillan, HarperCollins, and Simon & Schuster. It was the big six until Penguin and Random House merged in 2013, arguably in response to OMG ebooks. If you walk into a physical book store, chances are every book you pull off a shelf not labeled �LOCAL!!� will be published by one of these companies. They each have a large array of �imprints� covering different genres. A lot of these different imprints are smaller publishers they have acquired over the years. Examples include: Tor/Forge, one of the most prolific sci-fi/fantasy publishers, is an imprint of Macmillan. Song of Ice and Fire is by Bantam, an imprint owned by Random House. The hugely popular A-is-for mystery series by Sue Grafton is published by Holt, a subsidiary of Macmillan. Twilight was by Little, Brown Books for Young Readers, an imprint owned by Hachette. The huge romance imprint Avon is also owned by Hachette. Even Inifinite Jest by David Foster Wallace was published by Back Bay Books, an imprint owned by Hachette. OKAY?

Except weirdo Scholastic. Who the gently caress knows about them. so far as I can tell they are not owned by any of the Big Five, but managed to pick up Harry Potter AND the Hunger Games. GOOD JOB YOU.

Here are the benefits of a Big-5 publisher, as I understand them:
1) you will almost always work with a loving amazing editor.
2) They will give you an advance on your royalties. That means some amount of upfront cash. Maybe only $5k, maybe a billion dollars. Probably closer to $5k. These come out of whatever royalties your book eventually makes. It�s not a special bonus.
3) They handle some of the marketing (sometimes not a benefit. Also, you might want to some marketing on your own if you are mid-list because they won�t put a lot of money into it)
4) They will get your book onto the shelves of real physical book stores, where I hear some people still go?? They might even pay for an end-cap or cover-facing-out display! Wooooo!
5) They handle cover art and getting blurbs and stuff

Here are some possible downsides to going with a Big-5 publisher, as I understand them:
1) You effectively lose ultimate control over your book. For the most part the publishing company will listen to your input, but they aren�t really obligated to follow it.
2) The publisher has exclusive rights to your book for probably a long time. You�re stuck with them and what they do for you.
3) You�re going to cry when you see these royalty rates for the first time: �Typically, an author can expect to receive the following royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter.� (https://www.alanjacobson.com/writers-toolkit/the-business-of-publishing/) Ebook royalties are typically 25% � thanks Apple!! NOTE: for many authors you will still make more money through a traditional publisher due to the increased visibility and non-ebook markets.

How do you get this sweet sweet publishing deal??

Most of the time, you have to get an agent.

Every now and then, you can submit a manuscript directly to the publisher. Some of the romance imprints take unsolicited manuscripts all the time, and I know Tor accepted them for a brief period at least once. Not sure if that�s something they open on a regular basis. You can look up the imprints in your genre, then look at the internet to see what they accept. For example, here is what Penguin Random House had to say when I wrote this: http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/faqs/#manuscripts-how-do-i-submit-my-manuscript-or-abstract-to-penguin-random-house-for-publication-2. DAW, one their sci-fi/fantasy imprints accepts unsolicited submissions. But it�s not the imprint that publishes Terry Brooks, Jim Butcher, Laurel K. Hamilton, or China Mieville. It is the one that publishes Patrick Rothfuss though!

Anyway, generally speaking you have to get an agent.

How do you get an agent? VERY CAREFULLY.

http://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/for-authors/writer-beware/agents/

It�s actually not terribly difficult to find a legit agent. Basically, avoid anyone who charges. For anything. Including referring you to paid services such as editors. Agents make money by selling books to publishers, not by charging authors. They get a percentage of the royalties.

Finding an agent you want (and who wants you) is harder. You must find an agent who represents the kind of book you have written. You must have already finished your book and made it as good as you possibly can. Only then can you start looking for an agent. Do NOT query agents if you haven�t finished a manuscript or if you only have a first (or even second) draft. Make that poo poo good poo poo.

There are a few ways of finding appropriate agents to submit to:
1) look in the acknowledgments section of books in your genre. Authors generally thank their agent.
2) Directories such as Agent Query (http://www.agentquery.com) also have listings. You can try looking in your local library for copies of their yearly books instead of paying for their online services or buying the books yourself!!
3) There are occasionally events on twitter where agents post what they are looking for.

Always check the agent�s website and look at:
1) recent clients and sales
2) whether they are accepting new clients
3) their querying guidelines (make sure you follow these to the letter!)

The next step is querying the agents you�ve found. You can query more than one agent at once, and you probably should because turn-around times aren�t great and failure rates are high. Queries are typically very short emails intended to tempt the agent into reading a few sample chapters of your book, but see above regarding always reading specific querying guidelines and following them to the absolute letter.

A good guide to querying is http://queryshark.blogspot.com. It�s run by a literary agent and has hundreds of examples of query letters critiqued and improved.

After you get an agent, they sell your book to a publishing house. Hopefully. Frankly, I don�t know much about that. Also, you write a second novel and they try to sell that to publishers, too.

Once your book is bought by a publisher, the editing/revising process starts. You get a bunch of notes and have to make a bunch of changes and it totally freaks you out.

That�s what I�ve heard.

Small Presses

The main thing about small presses is that there a ton of them and they are all different. There�s not really a good way to summarize them collectively, but here is my attempt: Small presses will generally provide some part of the array of the services provided by one of the big publishers, but on a smaller scale. This primarily covers editing, promotion, and accounting. Each small press offers a different range of services and on a different level, while taking a different percentage level of royalties. You will need to cover any other expenses or publishing needs on your own. An example would be a small press that covers cover design, proof-reading, and has a small advertising budget that advertises all of their books together. You might still want to pay for any higher-level editing that you need (you probably need it, see posts on editing/feedback), and further promotion for your book individually.

If you see a �small press� that asks you for money, they are not a legitimate publisher. They are a vanity press. If you want to pay someone to give you hard-copies of your book, then just acknowledge that�s what you want to do and find the cheapest vendor who will print bound-books with custom covers. It�s probably FedEx-Kinkos or similar. If someone is saying you need to front them the money for advertising� they are probably lying. Do a ton of google searching (probably for publisher name + scam) and check out the self-pub thread.

Self-Publishing

Check out The self-publishing thread

Sundae is putting together some information on Self Publishing for me to include here! Check back soon!

Self-publishing used to be the realm of scammers taking advantage of desperate authors who could find no one else willing to take them on. Key words there: used to be. Soon, these kinds of introductory sentences won�t even be necessary. With the rise of ebooks, self-publishing has become a legitimate, and in some cases more profitable, option for publishing and selling your work. The most consistently profitable genres for self-publishing right now are romance and erotica.

The most important thing you need to know about self-publishing is this: you are literally taking on all the functions of a publisher. That means seeing that your book is decently edited, has a cover, has a blurb, and is promoted.

There is an absolutely wonderful thread here on the forums where many knowledgeable and successful people give excellent advice on self-publishing, so go listen to them, not me.

Publishing Short Stories

This is an extremely brief summary (mostly cribbed directly from Grizzled Patriarch�s OP in the short fiction thread). So, for excellent and detailed advice, go to the publishing short fiction thread

Publishing short stories is a different ballgame than publishing novels. But, the facts that you need to have a finished, polished work before you submit, and that you need to CAREFULLY read every bit of the market�s submission guidelines remain the same, though.

What are �markets� you speak of??
Short fiction is published by magazine-like-things, which are referred to as �markets.� I say magazine-like-things, because while most markets used to send out collections on a regular basis, in a printed journal, to subscribers, that is no longer true. Most markets now publish online (either in addition to a paper journal, or not). Nonetheless, many of them still retain a format similar to a magazine: they publish groups of stories (and often non-fiction articles and illustrations) at regular intervals, referred to as issues. Pretty much all markets are focused on particular types of stories, e.g. Literary, Mystery, Childrens, SciFi, Fantasy, Horror (Although combos of the last 3 are fairly common). As always, the best way to know what kind of stories a place is looking for is to read what it publishes.

Many markets have word-count restrictions (i.e. will only publish stories within a certain range of word counts). Here is a loose guide to word-count terminology:
Flash Fiction: Less than 1000
Short Story: 1000 - 7500
Novelette: 7500 - 15,000
Novella: 15,000 - 40,000
Each market has their own limits, so make sure you read their submission guides carefully! For example, Clarkesworld accepts stories from 1000-16,000 words. Tin House accepts stories up to 10,000 words. Tin House also only accepts unsolicited submissions between September and May (as of this writing). Again, READ SUBMISSION GUIDELINES CAREFULLY.

Note: Most genre markets (at least) do not allow simultaneous submissions (sending your story to more than one market at once).

Cool, how do I find a good market?
There are two major options: Duotrope and The Submission Grinder. Duotrope costs $5 a month (or you can buy a year of it for $50), while The Submission Grinder is totally free. If you are just starting out or not submitting too often, the Grinder is more than good enough. Both of them let you search for markets with all sorts of handy filters, like word count, pay rate, genre, response time, etc.

Duotrope's advantages are:
More accurate data on acceptance rates, turnaround times, etc.
A more intuitive UI (in my opinion) and a few other similar quality-of-life upgrades
Support for poetry and non-fiction markets

Something else to consider is that The Grinder skews slightly more towards sci-fi and fantasy markets, and tends to have pretty thin data (and fewer market listings) for "literary" journals. It's not a huge deal, but if you are planning to submit on a frequent basis and don't mind the cost, Duotrope is a pretty handy tool.

Another site worth keeping an eye on is Funds For Writers, which posts a lot of submission calls for contests, grants, and writer in residence programs.

If you are writing genre stuff, ravenkult recommends checking out The Horror Tree for submission, contest, and anthology calls before they hit Duotrope and The Grinder.

How do I submit?
99% of the time, it's incredibly fast and easy to send stories out. The vast majority of journals use Submittable now, which lets you type your name + a short cover letter / bio, attach your story, and send it. Submittable even has its own little tracking system - they'll let you know when the journal has received your submission, when it's in the reading queue, and whether it's been accepted or rejected. This is nice, because it means you don't have to worry about whether your story got lost in the void or something.

There are still some places that just want you to send your story as an attachment in an email, or even pasted into the body of the email. Most of those places are still very good about letting you know that your submission has actually been received, though.

And of course, there are the old dinosaur mags that still, in the year of our lord 2016, somehow only accept snail mail. Mostly these are the stuffy old university-run lit mags that have been around for a hundred years and don't really have any incentive to get with the times / are so prestigious that people are willing to jump through the hoops. You can decide whether it's worth your time or not. These places almost invariably also have ridiculous response times (some as high as an entire year) so I've never bothered.

Before you submit, make sure you have read the market�s formatting requirements. Many will accept Shunn Manuscript Format, but some have their own special requirements. Not following them is an easy way to get dumped without reading. OBEY.

Alright, how rich am I going to get?
First things first: You are not going to make a living writing short stories, full stop. Even famous, best-selling novelists aren't making big bucks with short fiction, and even the absolute best-paying markets are paying you less than minimum wage for the hours invested in writing. That being said, publishing can be a decent source of beer money, if you look in the right places. Both Duotrope and The Submission Grinder will let you sort markets by No Payment, Token Payment, Semi-Pro Payment, and Pro Payment.

Token payment is usually in the $5-10 range. Semi-pro payment is anything between 1 and 4.9 cents per word, while Pro Payment is 5 cents or above per word (or 6 cents per word, by Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America standards). Some places also pay flat rates, either for the entire piece or per printed page. There are a decent number of journals that pay in the $20-40 range per printed page, which is a nice chunk of change. There are a few places that have great payouts - Electric Literature pays $300, and The Sun pays all the way up to $1,200 - but those places have crazy low acceptance rates. Also, if you are published in a mag that is actually printed on paper, you are almost always going to get a contributor copy or two.

Something to keep in mind is that paying =/= better than. There are tons of very widely-read and well-respected journals that don't pay anything, or pay very little (I�m looking at you The Atlantic).

REMEMBER: MONEY ALWAYS FLOWS FROM THE PUBLISHER TO THE AUTHOR, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

And legit agents do not charge authors for their services. They do not require authors to pay �editing fees.� They get paid a percentage of royalties by the publisher. NEVER send money to anyone claiming to be a publisher or agent.

A good site that maintain lists (and the occasional exciting horror story) of scammers is SFWA�s Writer Beware pages

Some not-quite-exceptions:
- Freelance editors and proofreaders are not necessarily scams. The ones that you seek out, not ones that an �agency� �requires� you to pay if they represent you. These are legit professionals and can provide extremely good feedback. Look for recommendations from other writers and a list of authors they have worked with.
- A few legit writing contests have an entry fee (for example Glimmer Train�s contests, Glimmer Train being one of the top-ranked literary journals in the US), but I still recommend exercising quite a bit of caution when looking at a contest! Look for contests run by well-known and respected markets, and with well-known and respected judges. (Well-known past winners is probably a pretty good indication of quality as well!)
- Some reputable markets charge nominal processing fees, the ones I�ve seen are $3 or less.

# ? May 15, 2019 16:49

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Fruity20 posted:

How complex is the process of publishing? (I'm not super interested in the endeavor since most of my ideas are super out-there but it's fun to learn new things).

It's as hard as running a business by yourself, or as easy as talking someone into letting you win the lottery.

# ? May 15, 2019 18:28

Pixelante: Mar 16, 2006; You people will by God act like a team, or at least like people who know each other, or I'll incinerate the bunch of you here and now.

Nae! posted:

Save yourself the trip to the bookstore and go on Amazon, search through memoirs until you find a few that are similar to your own, then google who their agents are (if they have them). Most author will usually thank their agents in the acknowledgements section of their books as well, but that's not usually something you can see for free on Amazon. That's where going to a bookstore in person makes more sense, assuming you strike out with google.

Also you can just sign up for QueryTracker and look for agents who take memoir. Full disclosure, I've only ever used it for fiction so I'm not certain they even have non-fiction/memoir agents on there, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

Thanks! I'll see what I can find on QueryTracker. Having now read the OP on publishing, I'd like to take a shot at one of the big publishing companies. Might as well shoot for the moon. I think my story will have a lot of appeal to folks dealing with ageing parents or dependant family members, which is a fairly broad audience. I had a gold E/N thread about it several years ago.

# ? May 15, 2019 18:54

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

...I had an idea for a story where some person travels to a alternate future where humanity lives in a solarpunk utopia...only there's a few cracks with tribal warfare, vicious beast, and the looming threat of oil spewing monster living underground being the main issues of this world.

it's semi-inspired by this (depsite the site, it's sfw and pg-13) cuz quite frankly i didn't know what to do this pic...

Fruity20 fucked around with this message at 16:15 on May 17, 2019

# ? May 17, 2019 15:42

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Fruity20 posted:

...I had an idea for a story where some person travels to a alternate future where humanity lives in a solarpunk utopia...only there's a few cracks with tribal warfare, vicious beast, and the looming threat of oil spewing monster living underground being the main issues of this world.

it's semi-inspired by this cuz quite frankly i didn't know what to do this pic...

Judging by the url, you're supposed to masturbate to it, hope that helps

# ? May 17, 2019 16:11

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

Simply Simon posted:

Judging by the url, you're supposed to masturbate to it, hope that helps

it's sfw but here's the full image

# ? May 17, 2019 16:15

Pham Nuwen: Oct 30, 2010

Fruity20 posted:

...I had an idea for a story where some person travels to a alternate future where humanity lives in a solarpunk utopia...only there's a few cracks with tribal warfare, vicious beast, and the looming threat of oil spewing monster living underground being the main issues of this world.

it's semi-inspired by this (depsite the site, it's sfw and pg-13) cuz quite frankly i didn't know what to do this pic...

Ok here you go: Wow that sounds like a great idea, you have official CC permission to write it.

# ? May 17, 2019 17:05

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

Pham Nuwen posted:

Ok here you go: Wow that sounds like a great idea, you have official CC permission to write it.

is this sarcasm or genuine interest? (also anyone can steal the idea honestly...just ask first)

# ? May 17, 2019 17:22

Daric: Dec 23, 2007; Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.

I think you're pretty safe on that front

# ? May 17, 2019 17:24

Pham Nuwen: Oct 30, 2010

Fruity20 posted:

is this sarcasm or genuine interest? (also anyone can steal the idea honestly...just ask first)

It was sarcasm because you can just go ahead and write the story, you don't have to keep asking permission to do it here.

Avatar But Furries pic is cracking me up a little bit.

# ? May 17, 2019 17:35

flerp: Feb 25, 2014

Fruity20 posted:

is this sarcasm or genuine interest? (also anyone can steal the idea honestly...just ask first)

u dont need any1�s permission to write whatever u want. just write it

# ? May 17, 2019 17:36

feedmyleg: Dec 25, 2004

Fruity20 posted:

is this sarcasm or genuine interest? (also anyone can steal the idea honestly...just ask first)

It's exasperation at you feeling like you need permission to write anything. Write what you're interested in and don't worry about whether or not you should or if it's a good idea—almost always that's down to execution more than any other factor.

Asking if it's a commercial idea is a different story, however. The thread generally has very different advice there. If your only goal is to get sales and not to write what you're into, then you're taking the wrong approach.

# ? May 17, 2019 17:40

crabrock: Aug 2, 2002; I

AM

MAGNIFICENT

ideas are a dime a dozen and mean almost nothing. working hard on a project and finishing it are the hard part, nobody's gonna pat you on the back for sharing an idea that you just had. This is a fiction advice thread, not a livejournal.

# ? May 17, 2019 17:43

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

Pham Nuwen posted:

It was sarcasm because you can just go ahead and write the story, you don't have to keep asking permission to do it here.

Avatar But Furries pic is cracking me up a little bit.

I admit I never really watched avatar in full but for some odd reason it always finds it way into my work. Even my art style. (I was just wondering if you guys thought it was cool...since I wanna practice writing novels for naowrimo).

# ? May 17, 2019 17:47

Daric: Dec 23, 2007; Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.

Fruity, have you actually written anything? I've looked through your previous posts in the thread and they all reference ideas and worldbuilding but have you actually sat down and written something solid?

Because until you do that, no one is going to care about your ideas.

# ? May 17, 2019 17:51

Fashionable Jorts: Jan 18, 2010; Maybe if I'm busy it could keep me from you

Fruity20 posted:

...I had an idea for a story where some person travels to a alternate future where humanity lives in a solarpunk utopia...only there's a few cracks with tribal warfare, vicious beast, and the looming threat of oil spewing monster living underground being the main issues of this world.

it's semi-inspired by this (depsite the site, it's sfw and pg-13) cuz quite frankly i didn't know what to do this pic...

no this is a crime

# ? May 17, 2019 17:55

feedmyleg: Dec 25, 2004

Fruity20 posted:

I admit I never really watched avatar in full

Always finish too soon?

# ? May 17, 2019 18:00

Exmond: May 31, 2007; Writing is fun!

Let's talk about writing Third Person Omnscient. I have a short story (I'll post it to TD soon so you can critique it later), that is set in that POV. One thing that is bugging me is my characters are called, "The Doctor", "The Father" and "The mega-shark".

I want my story not be close up, the reader to be a bit far away, so the characters do not get names. The problem I'm encountering is writing "the doctor said" or "the father said" in rapid succession makes my sentences suck. (Or maybe it's the author)

lovely story posted:

"We got the results, and it's not good. She will need to be on Clozapine," the doctor says and hands the father a pad, full of payment details. The doctor goes to fetch himself a glass of water, the Mega-shark staring at him and smacking her dry lips. The lock on the door clicks shut and the doctor turns, and sees the father in front of the door.

I freaking hate it. Any ideas on how to get around this problem?

# ? May 17, 2019 18:09

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

feedmyleg posted:

Always finish too soon?

# ? May 17, 2019 18:19

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

Daric posted:

Fruity, have you actually written anything? I've looked through your previous posts in the thread and they all reference ideas and worldbuilding but have you actually sat down and written something solid?

Because until you do that, no one is going to care about your ideas.

yes. Most of them aren't worksafe though... like one is about a girl who wears her mom's clothes and instantly turns into a actual adult..

Fruity20 fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 17, 2019

# ? May 17, 2019 18:24

feedmyleg: Dec 25, 2004

^ I'm shocked.

Exmond posted:

I freaking hate it. Any ideas on how to get around this problem?

quote:

"We got the results, and it's not good. She will need to be on Clozapine," Dr. Smith says and hands the father a pad, full of payment details. Smith goes to fetch himself a glass of water, the Mega-shark staring at him and smacking her dry lips. The lock on the door clicks shut and the doctor turns, and sees James in front of the door.

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 17, 2019

# ? May 17, 2019 18:26

Fruity20: Jul 28, 2018; Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

quote:

"We got the results, and it's not good. She will need to be on Clozapine," the doctor says and hands the father a pad, full of payment details. The doctor goes to fetch himself a glass of water, the Mega-shark staring at him and smacking her dry lips. The lock on the door clicks shut and the doctor turns, and sees the father in front of the door.

this honestly makes no sense. things are seemingly added in at random for no reason in hopes cram everything into one sentence. If you trim and move some things around the prose could be way stronger. Have you tried reading it out loud to see if it flows alright?

note: not a good critic but Sometimes I know something doesn't make any sense if my gut tells me it makes no sense..

# ? May 17, 2019 18:29

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# ? May 11, 2024 10:07

Exmond: May 31, 2007; Writing is fun!

feedmyleg posted:

^ I'm shocked.

That works but I want the reader to be far away, so the characters do not get names.

This is my first time writing in the Third person, so just wondering if my complaints are valid or not. If they are valid, then I was hoping to get some advice on how to fix the issue.

# ? May 17, 2019 18:29

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