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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

I think Kid Is Too Shy To Adventure Needs Ash To Teach Him How To Be Brave is somewhat common?

My favorite thing of Sun and Moon is that there's, like, two of the plots from that list, tops.

Oh yeah, that one. I just remembered a couple others too:
  • A "rival" character like Gary or Drew shows up and acts smug but leaves without really doing anything. (Fun fact: Gary never actually fights Ash until the 116th episode, and even then it's just a quick skirmish between Pikachu and Eevee.)
  • Ash and his friends accidentally stumble on a Pokemon preserve (most often of Grass-types for some reason), which of course they have to defend from Team Rocket.

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MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

Silver2195 posted:

Oh yeah, that one. I just remembered a couple others too:
  • A "rival" character like Gary or Drew shows up and acts smug but leaves without really doing anything. (Fun fact: Gary never actually fights Ash until the 116th episode, and even then it's just a quick skirmish between Pikachu and Eevee.)
  • Ash and his friends accidentally stumble on a Pokemon preserve (most often of Grass-types for some reason), which of course they have to defend from Team Rocket.

Shut the gently caress up Gary didn't fight Ash until over two years in?! Tracey came in and left the show before they ever fought, drat

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

Shut the gently caress up Gary didn't fight Ash until over two years in?! Tracey came in and left the show before they ever fought, drat

Yep: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP116#Trivia

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011

indigi posted:

this is wild to me, I thought AS was one of the worst pokemon games. it was so plodding and uninteresting until the postgame. plus I've never really been a fan of gen 2 or 3 pokemon so doing the thing where you only have new mons on your team kinda dampened my enthusiasm

I'm a sucker for gen 3 because it's the first generation I really remember (though I did beat blue/silver)
But also DexNav and Soar are just huge improvements that make playing Pokemon better in general. USUM improved on the latter but lost the former.

As for the story, I usually glaze my eyes over in every game anyway. But I think it's nice since it never takes you out of the way of the path to being the champion. And most importantly, there's no long rear end headquarters dungeon like Rocket and Flare have. Plus, you have a 1 in 3 chance of picking a starter that absolutely trashes the team of your game, which means your other 4 slots can be whatever you want.

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



Silver2195 posted:

I should make a list of the anime's stock plots. There's a lot of them, and sometimes they're used in combination with each other (and of course with the basic character-of-the-day stock plot).

  • Ash and friends are lost in a forest (not even a particular forest from the games, just a generic forest).
  • Ancient ruins (possibly with an associated prophecy) contain a secret involving powerful ancient Pokemon, which usually awaken and go on a rampage. (I like how the anime writers eventually parodied their own stock plot in "Claydol Big and Tall.")
  • A small Pokemon is turned kaiju-sized by mad science.
  • Everybody gets separated (usually due to one of Team Rocket's schemes backfiring), leading to random team-ups (e.g., Pikachu has to work together with Meowth).
  • A wealthy woman's Pokemon runs away because it prefers going on adventures to being pampered.
  • Two groups of Pokemon (often split evolutions) dislike each other for reasons that are never really explained.
  • Our heroes arrive in a town just when it's having its annual festival.
  • Humans are disrupting some Pokemon's habitat, leading the Pokemon to wreak havoc, but the humans change their way and become environmentally conscious after being lectured by the twerps.
  • A Romeo and Juliet pastiche (forbidden love between Pokemon whose trainers or families don't get along). Weirdly enough, I don't think I've seen any episodes based on other Shakespeare plays (unless "Love, Petalburg Style" counts as based on Much Ado About Nothing, which is a stretch); it's always Romeo and Juliet.
  • Team Rocket convinces a rather stupid person or Pokemon that they're the good guys and the twerps are the bad guys.
  • Ash meets a member of the Elite Four who defeats and/or lectures him, and he realizes he has a long way to go before he reaches their level. (Rather annoyingly, this is pretty much the only context in which Elite Four members other than Lance appear. Lance saves the day in two-parters right before the seventh gym instead.)

Any I've missed?

Ash has to crossdress for *insert reason here* is a once a series plot (minus Johto).

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

Shut the gently caress up Gary didn't fight Ash until over two years in?! Tracey came in and left the show before they ever fought, drat

And after that, I don't think they fought again until the Johto League, after which Gary retired as a trainer to go into research like Grandpa.

On the plus side, that second battle was a doozy.

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age


transparency legs

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

hopeandjoy posted:

Ash has to crossdress for *insert reason here* is a once a series plot (minus Johto).

  • The episode before each League Tournament focuses on the torch relay, which gets disrupted by Team Rocket somehow.
  • A Pokemon is about to evolve, but decides not to.
  • Misty's Psyduck saves the day (but she'll go back to complaining about how useless it is in the next episode).
  • Jessie competes against the current female lead in something "girly" and usually cheats somehow.
  • James impersonates a Gym Leader or other celebrity.
  • Pikachu encounters other electric rodents, which transfer their electricity to Pikachu to power it up when it fights Team Rocket.
  • Pikachu gets temporarily super-powerful and/or sick due to handwavy electricity-related stuff, in general.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

hopeandjoy posted:

Ash has to crossdress for *insert reason here* is a once a series plot (minus Johto).

James crossdressing was a theme too.

Waterfall of Salt
May 14, 2013

Ow, my eye

Silver2195 posted:

I should make a list of the anime's stock plots. There's a lot of them, and sometimes they're used in combination with each other (and of course with the basic character-of-the-day stock plot).


Any I've missed?

  • One of the baby Pokémon befriend another Pokémon and they get sad when they inevitably have to separate
  • They go to a daycare and one of the kids don't like Pokémon and they have to learn how to trust them
  • A Pokémon has been abused by their former trainer and Ash and the gang help them trust people again
  • A Pokémon or trainer is bad at the one thing they're supposed to be doing, help ensues.
  • A cute Pokémon is actually a huge menace!
  • Evolution is bad actually
  • The gang wants to catch a Pokémon but it causes trouble and they almost never actually end up catching it.
  • The gang meets someone doing niche sports, they instantly become professionals
  • Pokémon are doing disruptive stuff but it's actually for a ritual of some sort

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



Silver2195 posted:

[*]A "rival" character like Gary or Drew shows up and acts smug but leaves without really doing anything. (Fun fact: Gary never actually fights Ash until the 116th episode, and even then it's just a quick skirmish between Pikachu and Eevee.)

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

Shut the gently caress up Gary didn't fight Ash until over two years in?! Tracey came in and left the show before they ever fought, drat

Gary was a lovely as gently caress 'rival' until the Johto season.

He and Ash's league battle was really fuckin' good though. Ash making Pikachu sit it out because Gary knew all of Pikachu's tricks was a stroke of genius.

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go
The "Pep Quiz" got a genuine laugh out of me, thanks Pokemon

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017

oddium posted:

transparency legs

So that explains why floating pokemon are weak to earthquake...

https://twitter.com/ramie967/status/1128609471112966144

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Vinylshadow posted:

So that explains why floating pokemon are weak to earthquake...

https://twitter.com/ramie967/status/1128609471112966144

I choose to believe this is canon now.

Dehry
Aug 21, 2009

Grimey Drawer
Pokemon Rumble is available as a mobile app in :australia:. It seems to have been created around the time Sun and Moon were announced with the SM characters mostly being absent and the few that are there having internal assets with their Pokedex number instead of name.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Nth Doctor posted:

Platinum is the best of Gen IV, which is a low bar to clear. If you like fire types, you're gonna be disappointed.
And gently caress roaming pokemon forever.

Aside from that:
:havlat: :havlat: :havlat: SHINY TAPU FINI HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED :havlat: :havlat: :havlat:

https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/information/986a6896-e2ad-4c7c-b050-a6984d597e93

The May International Challenge's participation award is the last of the shiny Tapus to get released. Team registration begins on May 16th. Details in the link above.

Don't forget that tomorrow is the opening of team registrations. See details in the link above.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Nasgate posted:

I'm a sucker for gen 3 because it's the first generation I really remember (though I did beat blue/silver)
But also DexNav and Soar are just huge improvements that make playing Pokemon better in general. USUM improved on the latter but lost the former.

As for the story, I usually glaze my eyes over in every game anyway. But I think it's nice since it never takes you out of the way of the path to being the champion. And most importantly, there's no long rear end headquarters dungeon like Rocket and Flare have. Plus, you have a 1 in 3 chance of picking a starter that absolutely trashes the team of your game, which means your other 4 slots can be whatever you want.
Gen 4 stuck in my mind because I played it a ton and I really enjoyed the physical/special split and the pokemythology.

Mesprit, Uxie, and Azelf as these entities that created the human mind and can revoke those portions at will was so cool.

I loved my cute kitty luxray and the supersonic landshark garchomp.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012
The Gen IV Pokemythology was a mistake, IMO. They went too big. The physical/special split was a great idea, though; it makes a lot more sense than making it type-based, and it has some interesting effects on tactics too.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
It felt to me like the Physical/Special split was intended from the beginning, they just weren't able to do it before Gen 4 because of limited room on the cart. Why else would there be Pokemon like Sneasel who is Dark/Ice(both special) but has high attack and garbage special attack?

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
I wish there was SwSh news

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

RatHat posted:

It felt to me like the Physical/Special split was intended from the beginning, they just weren't able to do it before Gen 4 because of limited room on the cart. Why else would there be Pokemon like Sneasel who is Dark/Ice(both special) but has high attack and garbage special attack?

because early pokémon is a trainwreck

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

RatHat posted:

It felt to me like the Physical/Special split was intended from the beginning, they just weren't able to do it before Gen 4 because of limited room on the cart. Why else would there be Pokemon like Sneasel who is Dark/Ice(both special) but has high attack and garbage special attack?

Gen III had the "contact" property; they could have just made moves physical vs. special and had effects that care about contact care about physical moves instead.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011
The only problem with the phys/special split is that it ruins my favorite Kaiju movesets. Rip Nidoking shooting lightning out of his mouth.

Moriatti
Apr 21, 2014

Nidoking still is really good as a special attacker with Sheer Force though.

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

elemental punches alakazam........

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018
Women are wonderful animals, they should be making music and writing novels about having a complex relationship with your mother.
I never had to grind in Alpha Sapphire, but in X I'm getting my rear end kicked by random trainers

SuperKlaus
Oct 20, 2005


Fun Shoe
Say you have a Pokemon you'd actually want to EV for defensive strength. Is it ever a good idea to EV for HP instead of going for the Defense statistics?

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Defense EVs would scale better with buffs I think. But if you're not using any then HP is better.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

SuperKlaus posted:

Say you have a Pokemon you'd actually want to EV for defensive strength. Is it ever a good idea to EV for HP instead of going for the Defense statistics?

This is incredibly dependent on the mon in question. Most of the time you want defenses though.

It can also be important to hit certain HP breakpoints or to more cheaply invest in for a mixed defender if you want speed or some kind of offensive presence.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Gripweed posted:

I never had to grind in Alpha Sapphire, but in X I'm getting my rear end kicked by random trainers

The Gen 6 level curve is incredibly stupid. XY expects you to either rotate a crapton of mons with Exp Share on, or to constantly switch it on and off depending on how far your team is. Going with it on at all times will give you a game that makes other Pokemon games look hard in comparison, not turning it on means you're constantly underlevelled (which makes for a fun, if clearly unintentional, challenge run).

Gen 7 greatly fixed it by using the perfect Gen 5 level curve + the Gen 6 Exp Share, but it's impressive just how badly Gen 6 handled it.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Moriatti posted:

Nidoking still is really good as a special attacker with Sheer Force though.

Yeah Nidoking's physical moveset is really limited, its special moveset is enormous cause it's from gen 1, and its attack stats are about equal.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Dabir posted:

Yeah Nidoking's physical moveset is really limited, its special moveset is enormous cause it's from gen 1, and its attack stats are about equal.

Plus its special attacks can all be boosted by Sheer Force while almost none of its physical ones can. And almost all the physical attacks are weaker to begin with.

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



oddium posted:

elemental punches alakazam........

Is there a bigger loser when it comes to the physical/special split?

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Vandar posted:

Is there a bigger loser when it comes to the physical/special split?

Sceptile was hit pretty hard right afterwards, their signature move switched to physical.

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



RatHat posted:

Sceptile was hit pretty hard right afterwards, their signature move switched to physical.

But it got Energy Ball that same generation to make up for it.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Banette went from Shadow Ball to Shadow Claw...

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
Typhlosian lost Thunderpunch which was its only real coverage move of note.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012
The Saffron City Contest was cool. Jessie, May, and Harley all performed genuinely impressively for the appeals stage, and all made questionable but in-character decisions during the fights. My only complaints are that Harley was annoying in the previous episode, and that they didn't work in any Saffron City-specific elements; Sabrina not entering her Haunter to have it do a comedy routine was a missed opportunity. (Though it's possible the writers tend to deliberately avoid that sort of thing because they don't want a kids' show to get overly bogged down with continuity.)

The character-of-the-day episodes between the Battle Factory and Saffron City were a mixed bag, and partly inspired my post about stock plots. Hopefully there's enough major plot elements for the rest of Battle Frontier that they can afford to use only their best filler ideas in between; there's only 48 episodes left to cover 6 Frontier Brains, 4 Ribbons (plus most likely a couple of Contest losses), and the Kanto Grand Festival.

The anime's treatment of Kanto's geography remains as vague as ever. Judging by the brief glimpse we get of the Battle Frontier map, the Battle Factory is near the Power Plant, and the others are located around the Pokemon League Reception Gate, Vermilion City, Fuchsia City, the docks south of Lavender Town, and the Seafoam Islands. I guess Onix's kingdom was supposed to be right on top of Rock Tunnel, and the forest with the mad scientist's lab was on Route 8? In general, the distances involved seem to be smaller than they were back in the Indigo League arc, and our protagonists have avoided revisiting past places and people aside from Viridian City and Mount Moon.

Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013

Zore posted:

Typhlosian lost Thunderpunch which was its only real coverage move of note.

Its still a special attacker though. It wouldn't really hit that hard.

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Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
please give serperior a move pool that doesn't suck

i hope in gen 8 they include like, bred pokemon inherit the father's signature move even if it's not on their move list. mystic fire eevee wouldn't even be that powerful but it would be cool

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