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Tom Guycot posted:lol, stanning for facebook, thats a new one. So why do you keep insisting they will not do the bad thing that we're all telling you they're going to do because it's square in their wheelhouse and in their best interests do to so?
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May 15, 2019 10:25
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Neddy Seagoon posted:So why do you keep insisting they will not do the bad thing that we're all telling you they're going to do because it's square in their wheelhouse and in their best interests do to so? Because I'm saying its not in the wheelhouse for what they want to do. Of course if they wanted to they would, you keep ignoring my point so you can keep arguing with the wall behind me. Just because they're fully capable of doing any bad thing doesn't mean that they're do every bad thing you point at. Why hasn't google locked out side loading? Why not? They're awful and lovely and its a bad thing, so since its bad why haven't they done it? Companies being lovely doesn't mean they look at a list of things and go "hmm this one is the most evil, and even though its detrimental to us, we'll still do it because its the most evil option". If they wanted to they wouldn't have made the Go easier, they wouldn't have allowed the Quest to have the same sideload ability. They could have decided to not do either and lock them down, but they didn't. The fact they've kept them both open for people to develop on is what I'm basing my belief on, you're basing your argument on imaginary stuff that hasn't happened and looking at things like facebook is a cartoon villain cackling in their skull fortress choosing evil options even if they're detrimental to their plans.
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May 15, 2019 10:35
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Tom Guycot posted:Because I'm saying its not in the wheelhouse for what they want to do. Of course if they wanted to they would, you keep ignoring my point to keep arguing. Just because they're fully capable of doing any bad thing doesn't mean that they're do every bad thing you point at. Why hasn't google locked out side loading? Why not? They're awful and lovely and its a bad thing, so since its bad why haven't they done it? Companies being lovely doesn't mean they look at a list of things and go "hmm this one is the most evil, and even though its detrimental to us, we'll still do it because its the most evil option". Stop holding the Go as an example. It is not relevant in the slightest to the Quest and frankly I doubt even Facebook care it exists anymore. If they ever did. All it did was exist to serve as an entry point into VR, and that's long past done with the Quest now existing. Especially once the price starts dropping on it. Locking down the API and hardware means Facebook are free to discreetly harvest a shitload of metadata off people every time they put the headset on with a network connection and nobody will ever know. That is literally priceless to Facebook.
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May 15, 2019 10:42
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Stop holding the Go as an example. It is not relevant in the slightest to the Quest and frankly I doubt even Facebook care it exists anymore. If they ever did. All it did was exist to serve as an entry point into VR, and that's long past done with the Quest now existing. Especially once the price starts dropping on it. Its convenient how you can sweep aside the 2 most pertinent examples, the Go and the Quest being open, because otherwise your whole lovely argument kind of falls apart doesn't it! EDIT: Nah, that snark is a bit too harsh and mean. Clearly we disagree on this point and we'll see what the future holds. Have a good evening VR thread friend . Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 10:55 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 10:52
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I hate you all.
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May 15, 2019 11:04
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Tom Guycot posted:Its convenient how you can sweep aside the 2 most pertinent examples, the Go and the Quest being open, because otherwise your whole lovely argument kind of falls apart doesn't it! You can set aside the Go completely because it will not give Facebook what they want and never will. The Quest started development under Oculus staff and (I believe?) before even the Go was on the table years back, so it's no wonder it has sideloading and they have similar elements coming from what was probably a design and development team of hardcore engineers and enthusiasts. Oculus now has Facebook's full attention going forward, and Oculus' design methodology and operating principles will change very quickly to suite what Facebook wants. That is why the Go is not relevant, and neither is the Quest as-is. You're only looking at the hardware and not the corporate politics behind them.
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May 15, 2019 11:05
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Forget everything I said before, the Monculus is the best headset now. gently caress everything
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May 15, 2019 11:07
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If it supports side-loading then it supports torrenting the entire quest store catalog for free. I don't think that'll be the case somehow. Ios is locked the gently caress down yet people can still develop for the platform, there's just a few more hoops to jump through.
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May 15, 2019 13:20
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VR Megathread: Let's Argue Ad-Nauseum About Stupid poo poo and Be Corporate Fanboys
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May 15, 2019 13:24
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Someone make a drat VR Speculation Station thread and this one should stick to talking about poo poo that is actually released.
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May 15, 2019 14:07
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Enos Cabell posted:Someone make a drat VR Speculation Station thread and this one should stick to talking about poo poo that is actually released. This is actually a really good idea, because these armchair VR slapfights are extremely stupid and the only people who care are the few who keep willingly getting dragged into them I want to talk about having fun playing VR games Related: I bought Beat Saber. 
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May 15, 2019 14:27
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VR speculation thread with  es to backup the baseless speculation.
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May 15, 2019 14:34
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Hadlock posted:Supersaber exists as an open source clone of Beatsaber and is fully compatible with the Beatsaber file format. If you're smart enough to sideload your own mp3s, you'll probably be smart enough to sideload a quest-optimized supersaber apk It's certainly possible that Beat Saber without modding will lose to WebVR knockoff Beat Saber with modding. That's an interesting possible future.
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May 15, 2019 15:02
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Wait, so which one of you is the knifegrab parachute account?
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May 15, 2019 15:07
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You still need a storefront, and you'd essentially be going up against the VR equivalent of Nintendo with an OUYA. FYI there already are 2, Pico store and Viveport M. Viveport M already supports 6 dof standalone/6 dof controllers with Vive Focus Plus.
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May 15, 2019 15:08
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Stick100 posted:It's certainly possible that Beat Saber without modding will lose to WebVR knockoff Beat Saber with modding. That's an interesting possible future. LIke Tetris, Beat Saber will need to aggressively protect and license its name, gameplay and all IP to avoid being killed by clones.
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May 15, 2019 15:08
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Vive Pro Eye... Jesus.
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May 15, 2019 15:11
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mashed_penguin posted:VR speculation thread with  Jim Silly-Balls posted:LIke Tetris, Beat Saber will need to aggressively protect and license its name, gameplay and all IP to avoid being killed by clones. e: Stick100 posted:If there isn't pirated beat saber before July then we'll know that the Quest is very resistant to piracy (as we currently suspect). 
Truga fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 15:13
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Mr Phillby posted:If it supports side-loading then it supports torrenting the entire quest store catalog for free. I don't think that'll be the case somehow. Ios is locked the gently caress down yet people can still develop for the platform, there's just a few more hoops to jump through. The Quest and Go support side-loading and will forever, there is NO reason to believe this would change. It's how you develop on the platform. Getting rid of side-loading would be a pain in the rear end for everyone (including all of the staff at Oculus working on VR). Supporting side-loading does not mean the entire Quest store is free. The Go supports side-loading and there is no Go piracy that I know of. Also the Rift store allows side loading and there isn't much piracy of Oculus exclusive titles. A few of the Rift titles have been pirated, but many have never been pirated. Oculus seems to have pretty decent DRM, and it hasn't been shown to be easily crackable on Android. But we'll see in the first few weeks if people manage to pirate beat saber. Having a $30 app everyone wants + everyone wanting modding will be a pretty good target. If there isn't pirated beat saber before July then we'll know that the Quest is very resistant to piracy (as we currently suspect).
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May 15, 2019 15:14
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Truga posted:
Gameplay mechanics are patentable. They often arent, but can be
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May 15, 2019 15:21
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You can copyright code and the content, but not a gameplay idea. Especially not something as simple as "hitting poo poo with your sword while music plays". If you could, you bet PUBG would get on it and sue fortnite to poo poo, but they can't (they sure did try tho lmao)
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May 15, 2019 15:41
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Not stanning facebook, but wtf does facebook even need from VR users that they can't already get from all of their other applications and platforms? Also what sort of marketshare do you think they'll even get with the quest? It's a fuckin $400 console that plays games, this isn't something your loving grandma uses to post videos or your teen influencer uses to shrill or poo poo everyone uses to chat with each other. Everyone always comes up with all these fearmongering ways that evil companies can use your data, and all of the AI and algorithms that can come as a result of it, but where we stand now MOST data is just loving ones and zeroes and is completely meaningless to everyone until someone comes up with some crazy idea that could potentially make it applicable and even then it'd take a mountain of engineering work to even get something meaningful out of it. Like okay, facebook can have my IPD and my height and how fuckin crazy i move my arms around. How does that tie into anything else about me? How do you sell it to another company? How do you even use that? w00tazn fucked around with this message at 16:04 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 15:57
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Beat saber is already on shaky ground what with clearly implying that it uses light sabers.
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May 15, 2019 16:09
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Truga posted:You can copyright code and the content, but not a gameplay idea. Especially not something as simple as "hitting poo poo with your sword while music plays". If you could, you bet PUBG would get on it and sue fortnite to poo poo, but they can't (they sure did try tho lmao) You absolutely can and companies have done so in the past. It's just generally doesn't happen often. Take a wild guess why there have been no minigames in loading screens since Okami? Or why the Simpsons: Road Rage copped a lawsuit from Sega for having an overhead arrow in a taxi game? w00tazn posted:Like okay, facebook can have my IPD and my height and how fuckin crazy i move my arms around. How does that tie into anything else about me? How do you sell it to another company? How do you even use that? Just generally speaking, from your controllers and height I'd have your average movement ability and general physical stamina. I can tell you have limited motion in your right wrist from the way it twists while relatively stationary, or that you can't move your left arm beyond a certain range based on the game you were playing at the time. I can also see that you're only acting in short slow bursts before moving the HMD and controllers into a position indicative of sitting down, suggesting you're quick to tire. Especially off a high-intensity game like Beat Saber. There's a lot you can infer, nevermind tie in algorithmically with other data. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 16:13
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w00tazn posted:Like okay, facebook can have my IPD and my height and how fuckin crazy i move my arms around. How does that tie into anything else about me? How do you sell it to another company? How do you even use that? I mean, just off the top of my head "when you were using the entertainment product, your hand flailing was out of spec so we can't provide you coverage for this broken finger, you're now $10k in debt, good luck sucker". But yeah, even innocent looking metadata is an extremely powerful thing, probably read up on it.
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May 15, 2019 16:13
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OK Tom Guycot, riddle me this: What do you think would happen if someone tried to make a competing store for the Quest?
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May 15, 2019 16:15
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Zero VGS posted:I dunno if you noticed but Cheap Chinese headsets don't and won't ever come anywhere near the quality / attention to detail of an Oculus product, There are a bunch of iPhone clones we don't see in the US and Europe because we actually have strong trademark/copyright rules. You can buy a very impressive iPhone 8 running Android for $100 at any mall in southeast Asia and they sell like hot cakes. The age of washed out screens on cheap cell phones died years ago. VR headsets are definitely still in the growth and research phase still, but there's no way there won't be commodity VR headsets in 3-5 years.
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May 15, 2019 16:17
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Hadlock posted:There are a bunch of iPhone clones we don't see in the US and Europe because we actually have strong trademark/copyright rules. You can buy a very impressive iPhone 8 running Android for $100 at any mall in southeast Asia and they sell like hot cakes. The age of washed out screens on cheap cell phones died years ago. VR headsets are definitely still in the growth and research phase still, but there's no way there won't be commodity VR headsets in 3-5 years. The problem with competition against the Quest is that you need games for it. And Quest pretty much has a monopoly there for the time being (though I fully expect a competitor within the next two years or so). They have a very viable storefront and a direct path into PCVR with (I assume) support from Oculus to make that happen if they want to uprez a game and put it on the PC storefront.
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May 15, 2019 16:22
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Okay, I am going to try this again. 1. If I think my PC is even remotely VR capable, should I even consider the Quest over a Rift S at all? 2. How long is the cord for the Rift S?
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May 15, 2019 16:26
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I think the era of everything coming out of China being cheap garbage is over. There are a bunch different kinds of products where the Chinese knockoff is actually better than the official version. One example is rubik's cubes. A Rubik's brand cube is absolute garbage. All the world record holders are using Chinese cubes. In fact, most of the innovation in twisty puzzles is coming out of China. These high quality products are being made in China. It makes no sense to assume that a knockoff company can't make a quality knockoff product when they are capable of making the official product.
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May 15, 2019 16:27
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Unlucky7 posted:Okay, I am going to try this again. Go check Oculus and Steam, they both have testing tools for seeing if your PC can run VR and will tell you what components are not valid or likely bottlenecks. If you have a viable playspace near your PC (if you're not just seated at your desk) and you're not gonna be taking it anywhere, then yes go with the Rift S over the Quest.
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May 15, 2019 16:30
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Unlucky7 posted:Okay, I am going to try this again. Do you value portability and wireless over fancier graphics. Are you going to be happy with the quest's library or do you want to play games that are only on PCVR? Those are probably the main factors behind that decision. I wouldn't rely on the potential for the quest to become a tethered headset at some point in the future when that may never be realized well. The riftS has a 5m cable I think so 1m longer than the OG rift. It can be extended though if you need more length.
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May 15, 2019 16:31
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Take a wild guess why there have been no minigames in loading screens since Okami? That's because Namco patented the idea; patents work completely differently from copyright. Even if a court were crazy enough to consider Beat Saber's gameplay patentable the creators did not attempt to patent it and it would be too late for them to do so now.
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May 15, 2019 16:34
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Cojawfee posted:I think the era of everything coming out of China being cheap garbage is over. That era has been over for a while now, in my experience. Every gadget I bought in the last 10 years or so has been cheap chinese poo poo from dealextreme, and everything still works as good as new. As soon as someone makes a half-decent quest ripoff i'm probably buying one. Unlucky7 posted:1. If I think my PC is even remotely VR capable, should I even consider the Quest over a Rift S at all? https://store.steampowered.com/app/323910/SteamVR_Performance_Test/ Run this, it'll tell you if you can run VR poo poo on your PC or not. It's fairly conservative too, so if you're near the cutoff you'll be fine anyway.
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May 15, 2019 16:35
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NRVNQSR posted:That's because Namco patented the idea; patents work completely differently from copyright. Even if a court were crazy enough to consider Beat Saber's gameplay patentable the creators did not attempt to patent it and it would be too late for them to do so now. That's my bad, I get'em mixed up sometimes  .
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May 15, 2019 16:36
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Eh what the heck... pre-ordered a Quest using the company tax except card from Best Buy. Originally was holding off on purchases till after I move but I caved in and I'll be picking it up on launch day.
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May 15, 2019 16:52
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BMan posted:OK Tom Guycot, riddle me this: What do you think would happen if someone tried to make a competing store for the Quest? F-Droid is moderately successful among the open source crowd, beyond that there's a whole bunch of fuckall that anyone cares about in countries where Google Play Store is available. Amazon's store is probably the most popular commercial alternative, but even with their massive brand awareness and the fact that they were giving away free apps constantly I'd be willing to bet that there's almost no one who actually purchases apps on it for non-Fire devices. The closest to an actual popular store alternative is what Epic has done for Fortnite, and even that's only successful because a wildly popular title requires it. wolrah fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 16:56
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Stick100 posted:The Quest and Go support side-loading and will forever, there is NO reason to believe this would change. It's how you develop on the platform. Getting rid of side-loading would be a pain in the rear end for everyone (including all of the staff at Oculus working on VR). Someone already made a webvr version of Beat Saber that was compatible with all the custom maps people had already made, but it got taken down. Unclear if it was because of something from the Beat Saber guys or just because everyone got super pissed at them.
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May 15, 2019 17:24
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The Quest's store is far more restrictive than the Play store. Not to say that doesn't have it's advantages, but it'd be nice to have a third party store that could handle updates for emulators, indie freebies and experimental things. Sort of a mix between itch.io and F-Droid.
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May 15, 2019 17:25
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Wonder how similar the Go is to android. Can you sideload a new launcher or a have apps install other apps? Depending on how locked down or sandboxed the filesystem is you could probably pretty easily write tools to inject things through the usb interface. Bidirectionality of information is another thing tho. (checking for updates, etc) I could pretty easily see someone writing tools similar to how we wrote tools for MP3 players back in the day. Whether or not that evolves into an ecosystem / store is another thing.
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May 15, 2019 17:41
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