Mel Mudkiper posted:that stuff is genre Oh, Mel. I contributed more to the previous thread in my three pages of posts than you did in twenty. Besides, you didn't critically analyze poo poo. You came here to basically do some weird Helldump-esque 'get a load of this guy, haha' thing. Yeah, real good insightful stuff there, Mel. You really got down into the details of why Power Rangers and Dragonball Z's plots aren't good or whatever, great critical looking. Good work. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 15, 2019 16:06
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Mrenda posted:In a dose of authors being so, so close. quoting myself from another thread Tim Burns Effect posted:joss whedon should be locked in guantanamo for influencing an entire generation to write like this
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May 15, 2019 16:28
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Oh, Mel. I contributed more to the previous thread in my three pages of posts than you did in twenty. stop posting (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 15, 2019 16:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also, don't do this I'd prefer you didn't if only because the people who want to undermine the thread would consider it a "win"
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May 15, 2019 16:40
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Ish? I think his Great God's War is better than Covenant. a thing i particularly liked about covenant is that donaldson said that he planned the third trilogy while writing the second and so put in "back doors" or something, so there are occasional moments in the second triology where characters just give huge exposition dumps about things that are never mentioned again solely so that they can be brought out in the later books
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May 15, 2019 16:40
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should just permaban Mel now and get it over with
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May 15, 2019 16:43
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:should just permaban Mel now and get it over with for?
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May 15, 2019 16:46
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Mel Mudkiper posted:for? consistently holding minority opinions in children's media threads
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May 15, 2019 16:47
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can I delete my own post? time to find out
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May 15, 2019 16:47
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:It borrows pretty heavily from Chinese Fantasy, and has spaceships and aliens. *sucks teeth* Oooh, don't say that! Mel will come and kick the poo poo out of you for saying that Journey to the West is fantasy.
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May 15, 2019 16:49
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Wait can we still talk DBZ? Cause I can think of a few tropes that Malazan borrows but I'm far too lazy to write a post about it.
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May 15, 2019 19:42
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Jaxyon posted:Wait can we still talk DBZ? Joke answer: only the manga or printed spin-off matter, not the show. Books only! real answer: as long as you're talking about a work of media and not other posters it's probbly fine
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May 15, 2019 22:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Joke answer: only the manga or printed spin-off matter, not the show. Books only! Eh, I'm only partly serious. Though the DBZ "guy relentlessly built as badass, is punked with zero effort by NEW badass guy" is done a lot. Though instead of being a enemy to train for a season and then defeat, necessitating even more powerful enemies, it's played different, more of a "there's always a bigger badass" commentary
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May 16, 2019 01:57
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hello, I'm new here (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 16, 2019 02:40
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okay its time to define some terms: a bee bit my bottom now my bottoms big
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May 16, 2019 09:34
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:okay its time to define some terms: a bee bit my bottom now my bottoms big
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May 16, 2019 12:14
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The_White_Crane posted:*sucks teeth* Fantasy was invented in response to the atomic bomb. It's utterly ludicrous to say that anything before that was fantasy.
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May 16, 2019 14:31
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Mrenda posted:In a dose of authors being so, so close. What is he "so, so close" to?
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May 16, 2019 15:00
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ToxicFrog posted:What is he "so, so close" to? ""Plot-Driven" is something of a myth. It's kinda mostly sorta not a thing" - Plot isn't a thing. Plot forward writing is no better than a wikipedia article. Although novels are artificial, created by someone, it should be up to the reader to do the most human of things and turn it into their story. If the writing is grounded in the immediate experience, the effect of the words and prose, it's the flow of ideas in a moment that translates to an effect felt, maybe intellectualised, appreciated. "What happens next" isn't true to lived experienced, you can feel anticipation for what is to come, but the anticipation is the first level of effect not the "next thing" that can't be known. Story, narrative, plot are all higher level experiences, made retrospectively, to make sense of what was experienced. "Plot-driven" is a contextualisation of experience, of events, without giving credence to what was experienced, what the truth of those events were in their instance. If you look at it like a history of events, history has to make sense of what's happened, but it isn't giving the historian the experience of what's happening. I'd say a reader is both living the events and the historian afterwards, cataloguing and making sense of those events. Plot-driven is making the reader into the historian after the event while they're still in the moment of reading.
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May 16, 2019 17:42
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Mrenda posted:""Plot-Driven" is something of a myth. It's kinda mostly sorta not a thing" - Plot isn't a thing. Plot forward writing is no better than a wikipedia article. Although novels are artificial, created by someone, it should be up to the reader to do the most human of things and turn it into their story. If the writing is grounded in the immediate experience, the effect of the words and prose, it's the flow of ideas in a moment that translates to an effect felt, maybe intellectualised, appreciated. "What happens next" isn't true to lived experienced, you can feel anticipation for what is to come, but the anticipation is the first level of effect not the "next thing" that can't be known. Story, narrative, plot are all higher level experiences, made retrospectively, to make sense of what was experienced. "Plot-driven" is a contextualisation of experience, of events, without giving credence to what was experienced, what the truth of those events were in their instance. Indeed. It would be far more effective and productive to think of novels as noumena-driven.
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May 17, 2019 19:11
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[Seinfeld voice but dressed as Oedipus] ...numen!
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May 17, 2019 19:30
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Nerdburger_Jansen posted:Fantasy was invented in response to the atomic bomb. It's utterly ludicrous to say that anything before that was fantasy. What's that make The Hobbit?
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May 17, 2019 19:50
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RBA Starblade posted:What's that make The Hobbit? A fairy tale
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May 17, 2019 20:11
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https://twitter.com/GerryMcBride/status/1129318920064786432
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May 17, 2019 20:42
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Yeah, Paw Patrol promotes fascism to toddlers, it’s hardly news e: https://medium.com/s/story/paw-patrol-is-a-republican-dystopia-f178161fce54
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May 17, 2019 20:44
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:A fairy tale Fair I guess When does LOTR turn from fairy tale to fantasy?
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May 17, 2019 20:50
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RBA Starblade posted:Fair I guess Read Tolkien's "On Fairy-Stories" if you want his own insight into this, he does not frame it in the context of modern genre fantasy of course
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May 17, 2019 21:06
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my bony fealty posted:Read Tolkien's "On Fairy-Stories" if you want his own insight into this, he does not frame it in the context of modern genre fantasy of course Oh cool, I'll give that a read later, thanks!
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May 17, 2019 21:14
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RBA Starblade posted:Fair I guess the entire journey from the shire to gondor and back is a transition from fairy stories to epic. the change is reflected in the language itself, both the dialogue and the narration. thats why the opening chapters in fellowship are all jaunty and lighthearted and by the climax of return it's all "lo, forsooth" the hobbit does the same thing in the transition from the shire to Erebor and back, though its more playful throughout and never goes quite as KJV as LOTR does
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May 17, 2019 21:22
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:Yeah, Paw Patrol promotes fascism to toddlers, it’s hardly news The paw patrol is about the evils of private enterprise, yet the author complains the team is led by a police (government) dog. Later the author complains that no one is a heroic government employee. I don't even know.
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May 17, 2019 23:51
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i'm going to make a children's cartoon that teaches them about an alternative world, one where the united states is the enemy and all men, women and children are equal in the eyes of heaven as long as they can transform into dragons, if they can't transform into dragons they're useless and relegated to cannon fodder and, in later seasons, food for the villains
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May 18, 2019 00:57
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:The paw patrol is about the evils of private enterprise, yet the author complains the team is led by a police (government) dog. A coherent liberal refutation of fascism is impossible.
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May 18, 2019 01:09
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:The paw patrol is about the evils of private enterprise, yet the author complains the team is led by a police (government) dog. Maybe you'd know if you actually read the review. quote:As for the show’s relationship to society and government, Adventure Bay seems to have no municipal services or social safety net. There is no public fire department, police force, or health care system. Instead, the residents rely on a Blackwater-style private enterprise that offers policing, firefighting, medical, trash and recycling services, and assorted search and rescue services
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May 18, 2019 01:14
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The review has an entire section about how Chase is a symbol of state power and authority, then turns around and argues he's symbolic of PMCs.The review you claim I haven't read posted:Although Paw Patrol never shows any monetary transactions, it is not a huge leap to assume the team is paid for by the taxpayers of Adventure Bay. So a show without money is simultaneously about rapacious corporate abuse and the power of the state. Why is it invalid to see the dogs as government employees? The review spent the entire first section explaining that the police drone is evil because a Predator can kill people and spy on them for the government. I assume he similarly eschews watching the Food Network because the knives remind him of the 1,691 people in the US murdered by knives every year. The Thomas the Tank Engine one is both more plausible and more amusing, IMO.
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May 18, 2019 01:46
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holy poo poo.. you're telling me that an american children's cartoon is fascist.. we got loving adorno's reincarnation over here
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May 18, 2019 03:43
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:A coherent liberal refutation of fascism is impossible. Go on
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May 18, 2019 04:32
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The person who wrote the review thinks that "in keeping" is a single word, as does the editor.
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May 18, 2019 07:13
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yall really out here reading a 1500 word analysis of paw patrol huh
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May 18, 2019 07:22
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Mrenda posted:""Plot-Driven" is something of a myth. It's kinda mostly sorta not a thing" - Plot isn't a thing. Plot forward writing is no better than a wikipedia article. Although novels are artificial, created by someone, it should be up to the reader to do the most human of things and turn it into their story. If the writing is grounded in the immediate experience, the effect of the words and prose, it's the flow of ideas in a moment that translates to an effect felt, maybe intellectualised, appreciated. "What happens next" isn't true to lived experienced, you can feel anticipation for what is to come, but the anticipation is the first level of effect not the "next thing" that can't be known. Story, narrative, plot are all higher level experiences, made retrospectively, to make sense of what was experienced. "Plot-driven" is a contextualisation of experience, of events, without giving credence to what was experienced, what the truth of those events were in their instance. I feel this is a criticism of the term rather than the feeling. Like, when people say they want to read on to see what happens next, I think it's fair to interpret that as they're enjoying the immediate feeling of suspense and uncertainty. So criticism of "plot driven" novels is kind of silly, it should be criticisn of, I dunno, anticipatory novels, that have the expectation of epiphany. Like a lot of this thread, it's an issue of better readers slash reviewers, rather than better novels Edit: also while "fantasy began as a response to ww2" is an awful statement. I can see the logic behind it, but pedagogically you can't just take a vernacular term and then criticise it by interpreting it in a very specific academic way. If you have a much more precise definition of fantasy, then you've gotta convince the general public that your definition is more meaningful than the popular meaning, or else nobody is gonna listen to your (really very valid) analysis. We've seen this so many times across the forums--like when BotL blundered into the spider-verse thread and was trying to make takedowns of people using "heroic" "psychedelic" and "tragic" colloquially by interpreting them in a strict academic sense. At that point any meaningful analysis is indistinguishable from pedantry. Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 00:03 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 23:51
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Edit: also while "fantasy began as a response to ww2" is an awful statement. I can see the logic behind it, but pedagogically you can't just take a vernacular term and then criticise it by interpreting it in a very specific academic way. If you have a much more precise definition of fantasy, then you've gotta convince the general public that your definition is more meaningful than the popular meaning, or else nobody is gonna listen to your (really very valid) analysis. We've seen this so many times across the forums--like when BotL blundered into the spider-verse thread and was trying to make takedowns of people using "heroic" "psychedelic" and "tragic" colloquially by interpreting them in a strict academic sense. At that point any meaningful analysis is indistinguishable from pedantry. Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 05:31 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 05:29
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