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Wow, I just popped in to see what’s going on with one of my favorite games and 4 million? That makes me so happy, both for the game and selfishly because it means almost certainly that we will get more. I think one of the biggest downsides is people not having played the first one. It isn’t at all essential - I marathoned the game when it came out and beat it having not played Nier. But when I went back for a second playthrough last year I beat it and then played the first one and man, I went back another time to play N:A and there’s so much cool poo poo in it for people who know Nier. It had even more impact, which I didn’t think was possible. I’d love to see a Nier remake.
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May 19, 2019 02:41
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Smirking_Serpent posted:I totally agree, and I think that as funny as they are, the joke endings kinda hurt it too. Yeah, each "route" is an episode; it's like a miniseries where most games are movie-analogues
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May 19, 2019 02:50
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rio posted:Wow, I just popped in to see what’s going on with one of my favorite games and 4 million? That makes me so happy, both for the game and selfishly because it means almost certainly that we will get more. I think 'we get more' was solidified a while ago. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised in the FFXIV raid hints at whatever comes next.
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May 19, 2019 03:07
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The main "Endings" are really more like chapters, or "Acts", including D and E which are more like epilogues. I get that the labeling is deliberate like that because it plays on the player's expectations of a "second playthrough" or "alternate Endings" in order to subvert them somewhat, and some of it is clearly designed filler to stretch. Just turns out that "intentionally misleading" is still misleading and comes with all the drawbacks that entails.
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May 19, 2019 03:43
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I don't know why it's misleading though. I don't feel like subverting an expectation of having multiple endings here adds anything. There's plenty of stuff where even if I don't like it or it puts people off the game I at least understand why it is that way, but the point of the whole "multiple playthroughs" mislead/fake out eludes me
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May 19, 2019 04:46
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drakengard tradition at this point
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May 19, 2019 04:50
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No Wave posted:There are a few already - I was very relieved become as gods went from an hour+ long sequence to a five minute sequence (especially as I was totally sick of route B at that point). But yeah I didn't enjoy desert+adam, adam+eve underground, or eve+ending the second time through. The Simone fight was great both times. I think a problem with route B is that some of the things it successfully does are things that tend to come with unwanted side consequences. It feels like (although I could be wrong) route B is partially designed to make the player miss 2B. Which enhances route C... but it also makes B more of a slog, since you spend all the time you play wanting something you don't have. It's also designed to get you more attached to the supporting cast, so Taro can hurt you more. By repeating the visits, it reinforces that these are places where nothing too bad will happen. But repetition also means boredom, which, again. Slog. Basically, I can totally understand people quitting in the B route, even if the payoff in C makes it more than worth the effort.
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May 19, 2019 05:11
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2house2fly posted:I don't know why it's misleading though. I don't feel like subverting an expectation of having multiple endings here adds anything. There's plenty of stuff where even if I don't like it or it puts people off the game I at least understand why it is that way, but the point of the whole "multiple playthroughs" mislead/fake out eludes me Going into it unfamiliar with Drakengard and Nier I was so psyched when I found out that it wasn’t just a new game plus. I went in as blind as possible and when it started with seeing the story from a different side with new areas and mechanics I was happy enough but when it turned into a continuation of the story with all new content and even a new character I was so impressed and happy. Just the way they presented that felt rewarding, like if you like the game enough to keep playing after what seems like the ending then you get heavily rewarded. I’m sure many went into it expecting the way it worked with the endings and in that regard it can be chalked up to tradition as a reason. I think both of those totally validate the way they did it as good design. And if some people didn’t experience that well then that sucks but it makes it more special for the people that did stick it out. I can see why some would be turned off by it but I really appreciated the way it was presented with the fake outs. Edit: 2house2fly posted:I don't know why it's misleading though. I don't feel like subverting an expectation of having multiple endings here adds anything. There's plenty of stuff where even if I don't like it or it puts people off the game I at least understand why it is that way, but the point of the whole "multiple playthroughs" mislead/fake out eludes me Going into it unfamiliar with Drakengard and Nier I was so psyched when I found out that it wasn’t just a new game plus. I went in as blind as possible and when it started with seeing the story from a different side with new areas and mechanics I was happy enough but when it turned into a continuation of the story with all new content and even a new character I was so impressed and happy. Just the way they presented that felt rewarding, like if you like the game enough to keep playing after what seems like the ending then you get heavily rewarded. I’m sure many went into it expecting the way it worked with the endings and in that regard it can be chalked up to tradition as a reason. I think both of those totally validate the way they did it as good design. And if some people didn’t experience that well then that sucks but it makes it more special for the people that did stick it out. I can see why some would be turned off by it but I really appreciated the way it was presented with the fake outs. Edit: chiasaur11 posted:I think a problem with route B is that some of the things it successfully does are things that tend to come with unwanted side consequences. I think you’re right but it was also a mandatory introduction to the bullet hell mini game. I know some people hated it but as a fan of that genre I loved it, and hearing all of the music that I adored done with old sounding synths was awesome too. So although B was to get you missing 2B, I think mechanically it had a purpose as well. rio fucked around with this message at 05:20 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 05:13
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If I had to make a suggestion, the first two routes should have been one with character choice and either of the endings opens up the second half of the story. Just streamline it a little without removing any actual content.
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May 19, 2019 05:54
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Regy Rusty posted:It's fine and traditional to call them endings, people are just dumb I'm with this viewpoint. No amount of rewording would have made people stick with the game more than they had up to that point. They should have made the gameplay Platinum-quality compelling instead- that would have had more of an effect on people sticking with it.
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May 19, 2019 06:05
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Route B unnecessarily repeats a lot of the same cutscenes but it also introduces many new ones that help you understand the world more. 9S is also better at melee combat than most people assume. You never need to hack any regular enemies because his normal attacks are very strong, as long as you remember to use your upgraded weapons from route A (because enemies are stronger) I think the problem with B is a budget one. If they had more money they could've made B more of an alternate campaign WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 06:45 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 06:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:If I had to make a suggestion, the first two routes should have been one with character choice and either of the endings opens up the second half of the story. Just streamline it a little without removing any actual content. Except that loses all the aforementioned benefits. You don't get the pleasant shock of playing as someone new. You don't get increased familiarity. You don't get to see the story from another angle before moving forward. It removes friction, but the friction was half the point of the exercise.
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May 19, 2019 07:37
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Smirking_Serpent posted:if this is your first time through, don't worry. Even if you "miss" something, you will get the opportunity to find it again. Just keep going. It's just a bit of an annoying thought constantly at the back of my head as i play. Makes me want to question everything i do, like "weren't there more combat mechanics? Am i forgetting some good techniques i figured out last time? Was i going to upgrade these things? Why does my chip setup look like this, was it part of a cool strat that I'm not using" etc. None of this particularly matters since i seem to be way overleveled for every enemy at this point and getting through just fine, but that won't stop me from thinking about pointless garbage like this. Thanks, me. I guess I'm in a good position to come back to though as route B will probably be a fantastic refresher. E: oh, looks like i literally saved right before the final boss yesterday. Amppelix fucked around with this message at 09:52 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 08:52
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One thing you would lose by ditching the multiple "endings" is the impact of ending E. For me, part of the surprise was that you were watching a familiar credits sequence with a familiar song for the fourth time when it happens. It's the same technique that's used in the entire game and is the basis for it's method of storytelling: build up and familiarize through repetition, then break down. I can also remember how different each rendition felt and all that combined made the finale more than the sum of its parts. It made me reflect back on how I felt at each ending and how the final relevations fit into and change them. Also the way they combine all the different song variants together is just amazing. It's too bad that it's not a good gameplay element but I wouldn't trade one of the greatest told stories in games to improve it.
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May 19, 2019 11:11
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Here's something i don't remember: when the game says "can be exchanged for money," that's not a ploy to make me sell my rare materials and regret it later, is it?
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May 19, 2019 14:11
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Route B reveals a lot of new info that completely reframes the story. Some gameplay stuff could've been trimmed though (with the player just assuming 2B did it). That said the hacking mechanic is busted in half so 9S can at least breeze through the game pretty quickly.
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May 19, 2019 14:25
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Amppelix posted:Here's something i don't remember: when the game says "can be exchanged for money," that's not a ploy to make me sell my rare materials and regret it later, is it? I'm reasonably certain that stuff is just vendor junk.
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May 19, 2019 14:27
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Amppelix posted:Here's something i don't remember: when the game says "can be exchanged for money," that's not a ploy to make me sell my rare materials and regret it later, is it? It's vendor junk but it becomes worth more as you progress further in the game so hold onto it unless you specifically need the money for something.
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May 19, 2019 14:36
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I think there's one or two times you can use vendor junk for some side quest. I know you need a boar and a moose meat for a quest, not sure if there are any others.
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May 19, 2019 14:46
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Organza Quiz posted:It's vendor junk but it becomes worth more as you progress further in the game so hold onto it unless you specifically need the money for something. Ah well, it's not like getting money is too difficult anyway, fishing is completely effortless and fairly fast
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May 19, 2019 16:44
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Amppelix posted:Too late, i just sold all of it because i wanted to see a big money number It's not a big deal. Combining and then selling chips you don't use is also always profitable I believe.
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May 19, 2019 16:49
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Theres a single noteworthy exception - machine cores - that go up in sale price as you progress through the game. At first glance this sounds like a "i should hoard these for massive profit!" incentive, but actually money becomes pretty much pointless after a while and buying quality of life upgrades helps you a ton in the early game, so you actually don't want to delay getting something useful in order to have more useless money later. Also there's eventually places where you can farm tons of them trivially just in case.
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May 19, 2019 17:47
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Yeah I mean, I have 500k G right now and absolutely nothing to use it on besides the half-wit inventor when I eventually get back to him with 9S. I'm not too worried.
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May 19, 2019 17:56
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Amppelix posted:Yeah I mean, I have 500k G right now and absolutely nothing to use it on besides the half-wit inventor when I eventually get back to him with 9S. I'm not too worried. There is something near the end of the game where having a stack of cash will speed things up tremendously, though you may just want to do it the other way for fun.
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May 19, 2019 18:07
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Mymla posted:I think there's one or two times you can use vendor junk for some side quest. I know you need a boar and a moose meat for a quest, not sure if there are any others.
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May 19, 2019 20:21
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You need several roses for one sidequest, but the game should set up some guaranteed spawns. Of course, it has a nasty habit of just not spawning quest pickups like that sometimes. Ask me about getting stuck on the first quest of the game because the lovely springs and gears didn't drop so I had to spend like an hour farming machines by the starting building.
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May 19, 2019 20:25
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Finally got around to playing this after hearing how good it was (but otherwise being unspoiled) and it definitely delivered. It was refreshing to play a game that felt like the result of someone's artistic vision instead of yet another design-by-committee / Ubisoft-esque game with all the edges rounded off. The music was exceptional and really elevated certain scenes, as well.
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May 19, 2019 22:06
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Man, everything is dying before they have a chance to really do anything, including bosses, so i kinda want to increase the difficulty so i get to actually experience the combat a bit. But increasing it to hard mostly had the effect of making me die in two hits to everything, while enemies still die just as fast, and also lock-on is disabled for some reason. So now the game is less fun and my problem wasn't even fixed. Guess I'm just blasting through the rest of the game on normal, eh (unless route c gets really hard suddenly)
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May 21, 2019 21:18
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Have you tried handicapping yourself by not having optimal chips? IIRC most of your attack damage ends up coming from your chips. Just use lesser chips. It's a crappy, dumb difficulty modifier, but it may accomplish your particular purpose.
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May 21, 2019 21:24
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I agree, the game definitely needed a difficulty between normal and hard. I tried a bit of hard and it just felt like I would randomly get sniped by some minor bot and die. I don't claim to be good or anything, but death never really felt fair. But the advice to mess with your chips is a good one. Play around with weird options instead of plus HP plus attack.
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May 21, 2019 21:43
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How did i not think of that, that's a really easy solution I guess because part of my enjoyment in this game comes from optimizing my chip loadouts, and part of that naturally is maximising weapon damage, it hadn't even occurred to me. Ironically, because everything is so easy i don't really even get anything from tweaking with the chips, but i suppose i just find it naturally satisfying on its own. E: although i do only have 15% extra attack on my main setup and removing that doesn't seem to have had to much of a drastic effect. I could also use less upgraded weapons, but i refuse to let go of my +4 Cypress Stick that turns the damage numbers actually legible and the treasures chests much more noticeable, not to mention charming. Amppelix fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 21:45
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Amppelix posted:Man, everything is dying before they have a chance to really do anything, including bosses, so i kinda want to increase the difficulty so i get to actually experience the combat a bit. But increasing it to hard mostly had the effect of making me die in two hits to everything, while enemies still die just as fast, and also lock-on is disabled for some reason. So now the game is less fun and my problem wasn't even fixed. Guess I'm just blasting through the rest of the game on normal, eh (unless route c gets really hard suddenly) Don't worry too much. I was thinking the same thing and the opening to Route C was enough to get the game back up to some level of difficulty. The back half of B is just really easy to overlevel for some reason.
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May 21, 2019 21:53
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With the exception of a few bosses it’s really easy to overlevel the entire game with minimal effort.
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May 21, 2019 22:40
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Level scaling has a very large effect on damage, yeah.
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May 22, 2019 02:37
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Wow, absolutely nothing happened in the entirety of B. Some reveals and a little insight into 9S' character that might as well have been rolled into the first playthrough. I really don't see what the aim was with making what is essentially ng+ a mandatory part of the game. Was it just to make the surprise when the story continues afterwards a bigger one? I really don't think it was worth that.
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May 23, 2019 22:43
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It could have been a lot shorter but it at least made the opening of C hit me like a truck. You won't find a lot of people defending it but I think repetition does make characters feel familiar so I dont think it was narratively pointless. As for "worth it", idk.
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May 23, 2019 22:57
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It is thematically consistent but not well executed
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May 23, 2019 23:15
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I just remember when you play as 9S and have to hack stuff to help 2B escape the factory to be dope as hell
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May 23, 2019 23:32
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Smirking_Serpent posted:I just remember when you play as 9S and have to hack stuff to help 2B escape the factory to be dope as hell
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May 23, 2019 23:59
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No Wave posted:It could have been a lot shorter but it at least made the opening of C hit me like a truck. You won't find a lot of people defending it but I think repetition does make characters feel familiar so I dont think it was narratively pointless. As for "worth it", idk. Yeah this is my thought, B definitely gets boring and will lose people playing the game. But I don't know how you would make C compelling without B; I think the player would wind up caring a lot less about 9S.
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May 24, 2019 00:02
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