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That's probably worth it, since we can replace that in a single hunt. (While leaving ten times the amount strewn across the landscape.)
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May 20, 2019 05:07
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Black Robe posted:That's probably worth it, since we can replace that in a single hunt. (While leaving ten times the amount strewn across the landscape.)
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May 20, 2019 05:14
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I say spend the five bucks. Money won’t feed us in a freak storm and we’re still rich.
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May 20, 2019 05:19
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Slaan posted:That buffalo meat will go bad soon enough You just gotta add more salt to it. Refuse and ford the river.
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May 20, 2019 05:24
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If our food situation is good, then Agree to the deal.
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May 20, 2019 05:30
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Regalingualius posted:You just gotta add more salt to it. So you actually can salt meat! If you buy salt to bring along you'll preserve the meat you hunt. SelenicMartian posted:Oddly enough, Gun Jesus doesn't have videos on these guns. Not those particular guns, but he did do one of an infamous exploding gun: the Colt Walker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhYlzTABNI0 Long story short, this was the predecessor to the Dragoon. It was the size and weight of a modern Desert Eagle and had power on par with a modern .45 ACP pistol with high pressure loads, but the chambers were too large for the amount of powder they were meant to take and the poor metallurgy meant they were prone to exploding if overloaded. They also had an issue with the loading lever falling under recoil, forcing many users to tie a rawhide strip around the barrel to keep it in place. The Dragoon fixed every problem and made a lighter gun with similar power.
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May 20, 2019 05:39
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Sure, we can just murder more buffalo.
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May 20, 2019 08:21
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Sounds like a fine deal to me! We get to cross the river, and he gets to go tell his family "who has two thumbs and just scored us an easy eighty-nine pounds of buffalo meat? Yeah, that's right. (points thumbs at self) This guy.  "
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May 20, 2019 11:29
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Agree to the deal. No idea if the game tracks it or not, but I like the idea of being nice to the Native Americans.
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May 20, 2019 13:33
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Accept the deal. Surely they're not as deceitful as us savages. (savages savages)Cythereal posted:No idea if the game tracks it or not, but I like the idea of being nice to the Native Americans. 
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May 20, 2019 14:32
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Poil posted:But that might lure them into believing settlers are in any way trustworthy. As was pointed out, at this period of time along the trail, most settler-native interactions were positive. It was mostly migrant families passing through who were willing to trade and weren't particularly threatening. It wasnt until you started to see widespread settlement on native lands or areas adjacent to native lands that there started to be tensions, and even then, especially early on, most interactions were positive.
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May 20, 2019 17:23
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Meat is meat, but you can use money to get stuff. Like more meat! Pay in
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May 20, 2019 23:00
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Meat bought with money might be cooked, though, which is an affront to all things natural.
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May 20, 2019 23:13
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Handing over our fresh buffalo, the natives easily help us caulk and float the wagons across the river..png) Church Butte would become home to a relay station for the Pony Express about 10 years after our journey. Would you believe we're still in Wyoming? .png) About 10 miles southwest we pass by Name Rock. The surviving inscriptions on it date to the later period of heavy trail usage in the 1860s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wT-9tKAsqE We'll get into it more in a history post, but here's the basics on the California Gold Rush. .png) We have another choice of trails here. We can keep taking the route to Fort Hall or cut through the mountains and Salt Lake City.
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May 20, 2019 23:25
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.png) church butt  arse church
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May 20, 2019 23:37
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Let's go to Salt Lake City out in Utah where the buffalo roam
Goodguy3 fucked around with this message at 23:50 on May 20, 2019 |
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May 20, 2019 23:48
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How much longer until we get to Shaggy Butte?
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May 21, 2019 00:05
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Avoid the Mormons, go to Ft Hall
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May 21, 2019 00:10
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Slaan posted:Avoid the Mormons, go to Ft Hall
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May 21, 2019 00:42
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Slaan posted:Avoid the Mormons, go to Ft Hall
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May 21, 2019 00:57
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I remember despising Great Salt Lake's heat and lack of water despite loading my wagon up with canteens, so Ft Hall to delay our inevitable death by dehydration.
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May 21, 2019 00:57
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Slaan posted:Avoid the Mormons,
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May 21, 2019 01:46
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Yeah, avoid the Mormons. We don't want to walk into a Mountain Meadows Massacre.
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May 21, 2019 01:57
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Head to Fort Hall, although we should buy some water barrels if any are in stock for the future.
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May 21, 2019 04:41
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We didn't skip shortcuts so we could take later, Mormon-laced shortcuts! Fort Hall!
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May 21, 2019 14:58
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The California Gold Rush I guess we may as well learn why we're even doing this drat trip! As the video summarizes, John Sutter commissioned a lumber mill near what's now Coloma, CA. While James W. Marshall was building it, he came across some shiny metal in the water near the water wheel. He took it to Sutter for testing and they quickly discovered that it was gold. Sutter was actually dismayed, as he wanted to build an agricultural empire that he knew would be destroyed by a massive gold rush, so he wanted to keep the news quiet. This lasted all of a month before newspaper man Samuel Brannan found out about the rumors and not only published a story but ran around the streets of San Francisco shouting about how there was gold in the river. Initially the rush was confined to the locals; as Sutter feared, all of his farmers threw down their plows to go pan for gold instead. The New York Herald reported on it in August 1848 and by December President Polk had confirmed the reports to Congress. Starting in 1849, approximately 300,000 people began rushing to California to make their fortune. They came by sea and by land, with routes ranging from the California Trail we're taking to traveling across the jungles of Panama to catch a ship on the Pacific side. Over the course of 2 years, San Francisco ballooned from a sleepy ghost town of less than 1000 people to a permanent population of over 25,000.  Lacking buildings to move into, prospectors created cities of tents, crude shacks, and deck cabins removed from abandoned ships. One unexpectedly booming business was restaurants; most of the emigrants were men who had relied on the womenfolk to cook and clean and lacked even basic culinary skills, so they relied on the cooking of the few people who arrived and knew cuisine. By 1850 San Francisco had a reputation for a massive number of restaurants of varying quality and even the prospector camps often had at least one restaurant set up with communal tables in a tent. Because the economy was based around gold prospecting, prices fluctuated wildly. The price of food ballooned as high as $1 per egg or $85 for a barrel of flour and then dropped so low that merchants couldn't make a profit. Most transactions were conducted with gold, primarily weighed measurements of gold dust. Towns were formed and abandoned within the decade as gold came and went. Life in the camps was often lawless and home to vigilante justice, as there was no governmental presence whatsoever to enforce laws. One very unexpected aspect of the gold rush was the reputation for homosexuality in San Francisco. Fewer than 2% of emigrants in 1849 were women, creating an almost entirely male city. In a time when homosexuality was vilified and potentially even criminal, the predominately male town gave gay men a lot more places to meet up. The most infamous place in town was the red-light district of Barbary Coast, filled with crime and vice of all kinds; at one point a group of former convicts from the penal colony of Australia arrived and formed the Sydney Ducks gang, ruling the district until the town banded together in a massive display of vigilante justice in 1851 to arrest, deport, and murder the Australians. The Gold Rush was arguably the most instrumental factor in the development of the West Coast. California went from an isolated territory of disputed ownership and frontier ghost towns to a center of global trade practically overnight, earning statehood in September 1850. Agricultural and civic development (such as roads and railroads) was spurred by the sudden need for cross-country transport. The sudden wealth was so massive as to spur trade on a global scale. On the more negative side, it also hastened the removal of Native Americans, both purposeful from taking over their land and accidental from the industrial development killing their wild food supplies. Large numbers of immigrants from Central/South America and China also arrived and established communities, which faced constant ethnic violence. The most lasting effect is the idea of the "California Dream." Everyone views California as a place where you can begin again and achieve your dreams, whether it's stardom in Hollywood, wine production in the Napa Valley, or a tech job in San Francisco. California has become possibly the most romanticized place for dreamers and doers in America, maybe even the world. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 16:13 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 16:10
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The Mormons are still very suspicious of outsiders at this point and the Salt Lake Valley is a miserable place. This is a no-brainer: Fort Hall Also, I just want to say this is an amazing LP. This is one of my fav eras to learn about in US history, and western emigration always fascinated me (mostly because of these games).
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May 21, 2019 16:36
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PizzaProwler posted:The Mormons are still very suspicious of outsiders at this point and the Salt Lake Valley is a miserable place. This is a no-brainer: Fort Hall Thank you! I always love educational LPs so I wanted to try my hand at one.
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May 21, 2019 16:39
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I remember reading somewhere that the Gold Rush is the reason that California became a free state, despite the environment (such as the aforementioned wine country) befitting plantations and the land being largely in the south. Allegedly the gold mining industry that sprang up fought hard to keep slavery out of the territory so that miners wouldn't have to compete with slave labor, and the wealth that the gold brought in allowed for statehood without any real discussion of a Northern and Southern California division into free and slave states.
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May 21, 2019 16:49
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CirclMastr posted:I remember reading somewhere that the Gold Rush is the reason that California became a free state, despite the environment (such as the aforementioned wine country) befitting plantations and the land being largely in the south. Allegedly the gold mining industry that sprang up fought hard to keep slavery out of the territory so that miners wouldn't have to compete with slave labor, and the wealth that the gold brought in allowed for statehood without any real discussion of a Northern and Southern California division into free and slave states. Slavery still existed in California in the form of slave owners just bringing their slaves along. Since California was basically a lawless territory running on local justice before statehood, there wasn't really anything to keep this from happening. While California was entered into the union as a free state it was still heavily populated by white supremacists and slave owners who just ignored the law and didn't tell their slaves that they were technically being illegally enslaved. Slavery in California didn't truly end until the 13th Amendment and greater federal oversight of California made this impossible.
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May 21, 2019 16:53
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PizzaProwler posted:The Mormons are still very suspicious of outsiders at this point and the Salt Lake Valley is a miserable place. To the point that in 1857, just seven years after this LP's trip, a Mormon militia massacred a wagon train passing through Utah. I've heard from ex-Mormons that the church denied the massacre happened at all for a long time, and even now tries to downplay what happened whenever it's brought up.
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May 21, 2019 16:53
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So, uh, hope none of you guys are black.
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May 21, 2019 17:16
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Well, that's not ominous at all.
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May 21, 2019 17:18
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Cythereal posted:To the point that in 1857, just seven years after this LP's trip, a Mormon militia massacred a wagon train passing through Utah. I've heard from ex-Mormons that the church denied the massacre happened at all for a long time, and even now tries to downplay what happened whenever it's brought up. Sort of, there is a lot of confusion on parts of what happened. This was during the period of the Utah War, where the federal government was in a state of conflict with the Mormons. President Buchanan sent a large military force. The Mormons, convinced they were going to deal with the same persecutions they faced in Missouri and Illinois, harassed the army by burning their supply wagons, stampeding their horse, and basically stymieing them every way they could. There were no direct military engagements. Brigham Young reached out to political allies and a peace was negotiated with a federal governor put in place (a moderate acceptable to both sides). Fun fact: So many of a company’s wagons were burned hauling government supplies that to stave off bankruptcy they sought for and got a government contract for mail delivery and formed the Pony Express. Also, my great-great grandfather led one of those wagon burning groups. His journal about his experiences in the war is pretty neat. Anyway, back to the Massacre. The local militia heard there was a wagon train coming and it was coming from an area where one of their apostles was recently killed. In addition there were rumors that the wagon train was poisoning springs and stirring them up against the Mormons which incited fear. Relations with the natives were always precarious. The first plan was to arm natives and have them attack the wagon train. The local president tricked the wagon party and they and they, assisted by a few natives, killed most of them. The goods were split with the natives and seized. A few surviving children were fostered in local homes. There is some controversy over how much Brigham Young knew. The report is that Brigham dispatched instructions to let them go but that, of course, they could not stop the natives if they attacked on their own. The message did not arrive in time. Some say this was created after the fact but the timing is suspicious. Brigham Young was looking to defuse tensions and reach an accord so attacking the train makes no sense from that perspective and his stated policy was to leave non-military wagon trains alone. The full truth will probably never be known. In any case, Young conducted an investigation and swore everyone to secrecy and reported it was a native attack. If he was not involved as I suspect he definitely obstructed the investigation, probably mostly for political reasons due to the ongoing conflict. Once the Utah War was over an army Major was sent to investigate what happened. The physical evidence and interviews showed that the Mormons were involved. The surviving children were repatriated to Arkansas. A federal grand jury was formed but no indictments came of it. There was more to be searched out but the Civil War delayed it and Lincoln and Young basically ignored each other with a kind of unspoken agreement that Lincoln would not mess with plural marriage and Young would not support the Confederacy in any way. After the civil war the leader of the militia, John Lee, was arrested. Lee and several of the other local leaders were excommunicated by the church. The first trial of Lee was before a combined Mormons and non-Mormon jury and ended with a hung jury. The next was before an all-Mormon jury and he was convicted and sentenced to death. He was shot by firing squad. The story is further complicated by an affidavit appearing much later from William Edwards admitting his involvement in the attack that was basically a confession that sort of implicated Young. Modern forensics though show the affidavit was probably a forgery from the con artist Mark Hoffman who created a number of Mormon forgeries. The modern church acknowledges the disaster and has sent leaders as representatives to memorial services though Church Presidents have stated they do not believe President Young authorized the attack. Sorry for the derail but I am a bit of a Mormon history nerd.
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May 21, 2019 18:49
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Hey, as an ex-Mormon with some Mormon family, with ancestors who traveled the Mormon Trail, and who settled peacefully in the Salt Lake Valley, it's nice to get a non-biased write-up on these kinds of events that don't just automatically paint the Mormons as the villains. They seem to be an acceptable target for bigotry around here and it gets downright irritating. These are people who settled nearly desert lands to get away from a loving kill order. Sorry for the outburst.
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May 21, 2019 19:42
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Considering the facts, I'm guessing it was a Watergate situation: Young knew the Mormons were up to some poo poo as part of the war but didn't explicitly authorize massacring civilians. When he found out how far they went, his first reaction was to just cover things up instead of letting the individuals take the fall and disavowing them.
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May 21, 2019 19:42
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chitoryu12 posted:So, uh, hope none of you guys are black. 
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May 21, 2019 19:52
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chitoryu12 posted:Considering the facts, I'm guessing it was a Watergate situation: Young knew the Mormons were up to some poo poo as part of the war but didn't explicitly authorize massacring civilians. When he found out how far they went, his first reaction was to just cover things up instead of letting the individuals take the fall and disavowing them. As usual, this is a very even-handed take on this situation. I appreciate it. I also appreciate the dope write-ups you do on individual subjects about the Oregon Trail. I've been kinda volleying around the idea of doing a historical LP of my own, but it's just so goddamn daunting. Props.
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May 21, 2019 20:13
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.png) I haven't shown you the travel view yet. Here's our path since we're avoiding the Mormons. .png) What now?
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May 22, 2019 04:17
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If we wait, we can get some other sucker to move the rocks for us!
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May 22, 2019 04:19
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