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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:It's actually part of the real world problem. The rise of fascism and the disregard for the value of facts and the truth go hand in hand. Ignoring people blatantly lying, on any subject, is loving stupid. As is the idea that it shouldn't be called out, which in the grand scheme of things serves only the fash and their fellow travellers. Are you for real? You think lieing about 40k/GW and fascists lieing about facts is the same thing? I'm not saying we shouldn't call a lie a lie and gently caress you for trying to gas light it that way. I said don't lose your poo poo over grogs complaining about imaginary bull poo poo. Here's a pro tip, fascists have real world consequences and a made up setting doesn't. You want want to root around and get internet mad at ppl in a game thread hey go for it, your time and money. There isn't a rise of facism it was already around just lurking, its just more emboldened and exposed. Fash ppl who take the setting at face value and think spending thousand of guardsmen lives to put a flag on a hill and cry manly tears did not get the joke, yes explain it to them but keep in mind when you go into a frothing mad rage it gets hard for anyone to see your point, especially when it comes to petty insults over a game. That'll really win them over. Educate them don't insult them as hard as it is not too. But I'm done I'm not getting into the muck with you.
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May 19, 2019 03:43
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Resting Lich Face posted:Not sure how using "you're" instead of "your" is being a right wing weirdo but okay. I never said moola was a right wing weirdo.
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May 19, 2019 03:46
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I'm gonna lock this poo poo while Beer and I figure out some guidelines, 'cause between the threadshitters and the morons who can't stop replying to the threadshitters (myself included) this place is going to poo poo, and I don't want to see that happen. If anyone has any suggestions please PM me.
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May 19, 2019 04:50
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Ok let's try again. Thread Rules This thread will be moderated with a heavy hand. Use the report button if someone is breaking the thread or forum rules. Continued engagement with trolls and threadshitters will result in a time-out, for the good of the thread. This is a topic folks are rightly passionate about, but posting quality has often suffered to the point of jeopardizing what is generally seen as a helpful thread. I'd like to not see it closed, so please abide by the following: This thread is for: 1. Identifying fascists and fascist-adjacent people in the Trad Gaming community; public figures in particular. This is so that fellow goons can make informed decisions about who they do and don't support. 2. Educating goons about common tactics fash use to infiltrate and recruit from gaming communities, so that we can resist them within our own. 3. Educating goons about history, politics, and philosophy, as it pertains to understanding fascism AND RELATES TO TRAD GAMING. If you're gonna post a 3,000 word essay on the history and changing context of the Swastika (don't do this), it better be because of that wehraboo in your group who insists on putting them all over his Tyranids. This thread is not for: 1. THIS IS NOT A WITCH HUNT. Fascists, rather helpfully, invariably out themselves. All the examples in the OP are researched and have supporting evidence. If you're not sure, then give the benefit of the doubt. There is no need to go drawing abstract conclusions from out of context data, or making accusations because someone plays a game you don't like. 2. Seriously, if you think a particular game is fashy, that doesn't mean that a) you're right, and b) everyone who plays it is a fash. "40K has a lot of fashy themes and can attract shitheads who don't understand the satire" is a good post, "I understand the satire but no one is as smart as me so everyone who plays space marines must be a closet Nazi" is a bad post. 3. Baiting and posting in bad faith. Like the above, this is easy to spot but hard to ignore. Call people out but don't continue to engage; that's what they want. Use the report button and ignore them. They will be dealt with. 4. Threadshitting. Posts like "I thought this thread was about" fall under this category. If you don't have anything to contribute that adds to the collective knowledge of the thread, don't post. 5. Bitching about moderation. If you post here, it comes at the risk of being punished. Complaining about moderation will get you probated. The admins review and approve any punishment greater than six hours, so either you did something minor and nobody is going to change anything or more than one person agreed you did something really bad. PM Beer or Ettin if you feel a punishment was inappropriate. BIG MEATY SHITS fucked around with this message at 05:07 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 02:13
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Hi everyone. I want to make it clear that I support the idea behind this thread and am willing to do my best to keep it going. Based on conversations with other mods and admins this means that my tolerance is significantly reduced; don't be surprised if you get a week long probation for making a personal attack. That's how seriously we take keeping this thread clean and focused. Please make judicious use of the report button.
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May 21, 2019 02:23
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Where does cringeworthy/creepy poo poo a la Manhammer, Eldar rape dioramma fall in the context of this thread? Something to post about here, particularly in the context of business services offered by the creators or out of scope?
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May 21, 2019 03:26
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TheChirurgeon posted:Where does cringeworthy/creepy poo poo a la Manhammer, Eldar rape dioramma fall in the context of this thread? Something to post about here, particularly in the context of business services offered by the creators or out of scope? Manhammer guy also supported that Totemkampf art, right?
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May 21, 2019 03:48
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Manhammer guy also supported that Totemkampf art, right? Believe so. Besides, being a big enough creep to vomit out crap like that and being a Nazi go hand in hand.
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May 21, 2019 03:50
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TheChirurgeon posted:Where does cringeworthy/creepy poo poo a la Manhammer, Eldar rape dioramma fall in the context of this thread? Something to post about here, particularly in the context of business services offered by the creators or out of scope? Hitler was a meth-head, manhammer's addicted to monster energy drinks.
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May 21, 2019 03:51
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SteelMentor posted:Believe so. Besides, being a big enough creep to vomit out crap like that and being a Nazi go hand in hand. For now let's stay focused on fascist and fascist adjacent, which I would consider that to be. Eldar rape diorama let's avoid. Ugh.
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May 21, 2019 03:56
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SteelMentor posted:Believe so. Besides, being a big enough creep to vomit out crap like that and being a Nazi go hand in hand. I think the sex weirds and the fash are a venn diagram that isn't -quite- a circle, but that guy is very definitely in the overlap.
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May 21, 2019 03:59
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MANHammer dude is in the OP, cause as was said, the Venn diagram is almost a circle. Also:The OP posted:Fash can take on many forms, and oppressing women through gender roles and stereotyping, and generally being a creepy piece of poo poo, is fash as gently caress. At the least think it's appropriate to let people know if you see commission painters proudly displaying this garbage, so people can not support them.
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May 21, 2019 04:22
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Works for me.
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May 21, 2019 04:43
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TheChirurgeon posted:Where does cringeworthy/creepy poo poo a la Manhammer, Eldar rape dioramma fall in the context of this thread? Something to post about here, particularly in the context of business services offered by the creators or out of scope?
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May 21, 2019 06:18
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I feel a lot better about the news that vampire the masquerade + white wolf properties are hopefully being rehabilitated. 1st edition vampire: the masquerade was one of my first, formative mature roleplaying games so it felt pretty bad to hear that the latest version was going to be toxic and probably, by association, dead. It's nice to hear something positive once in a while.
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May 21, 2019 08:41
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I only know Vampire from the video game, this thread now and the horror stories of it's player base from the RP thread, but it's the kind of setting I'm sure I could have fun with playing RP for an afternoon so it's cool that they're trying to sort out any issues it had.
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May 21, 2019 09:07
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Meanwhile, Swedraculas public Facebook post about the whole thing is full of supportive replies from people I personally used to know as non-performatively woke. 
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May 21, 2019 09:35
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xutech posted:I feel a lot better about the news that vampire the masquerade + white wolf properties are hopefully being rehabilitated. 1st edition vampire: the masquerade was one of my first, formative mature roleplaying games so it felt pretty bad to hear that the latest version was going to be toxic and probably, by association, dead. It's nice to hear something positive once in a while. I honestly cannot believe how bad the recent Vampire stuff was. I thought half of what people were saying was parody but it it was all real. I'm so glad they cleaned house rather than letting it fester.
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May 21, 2019 13:28
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TTerrible posted:I honestly cannot believe how bad the recent Vampire stuff was. I thought half of what people were saying was parody but it it was all real. I'm so glad they cleaned house rather than letting it fester. The main thing I fault Paradox on is how long it took, because people were complaining about it for a long time before they literally caused an international incident.
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May 21, 2019 13:52
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I can easily see ignoring fans, because I mean, come on. the ratio between legitimate concerns and dumb pedantry must be approaching 1:1,000,000.
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May 21, 2019 15:13
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Things got pretty bad, enough that they literally apologized for a playtest packet, so.
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May 21, 2019 15:43
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It's possible I've missed it, but they're not in the OP, so I wanted to post something about an extremist right-wing wanker in the RPG sphere that anyone who used to read grognards.txt knows very well. RPGPundit For years Kasimir Urbanski AKA Tarnowski AKA RPGPundit has been talking about his vision of how games should be old school and entirely opposed to anything that isn't some variation on really bad games from 40 years ago, for a long time he'd decry 'storygames' as 'Swine', he's since moved on and, in true fash-tradition now criticises everyone to the left of Hitler as 'communists'. He's trying to branch out at the moment to more widespread right-wing acceptance by supporting noted racist right-wing extremists such as Nigel Farage, Steven Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson), Mark Meechan (AKA Count Dankula) and of course has a love affair with Trump only rivaled by his pretentious pipe-tobacco bullshit. He regularly complains about LGBT issues getting any representation at all, or any criticism of homophobia, transphobia or basically any right-wing shithead doing right-wing shithead stuff. Recently he's come to really, really hate Canada for some reason and a good 20% of his attacks are aimed there. He's published some lovely mediocre and racist rpg products that are your typical 'white guy writes about cultures he knows gently caress all about other than wikipedia) but gets most of his attention by being the admin of therpgsite which is where everyone who's banned from all the other gaming communities goes to to complain about how bad it is that wimminz and teh gayz get to be represented. Assuming he's not blocked you, you can find evidence for all of the above in a few minutes of searching his twitter account at https://twitter.com/KasimirUrbanski but that doesn't cover even a minor percentage of his fash views over the years. In short, he's a racist, homophobic, trasnphobic extremist right-wing shithead who has been getting more and more extremist in his views over time.
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May 21, 2019 16:02
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Also he thinks he's a wizard. No, literally.
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May 21, 2019 16:15
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With the updated rules, can I ask about the inverse of the OP? Are there any people (either in the industry or leaders of the fan community) that have proven themselves to be allies/good actors? I know that anyone held up as a positive example has a hell of chance to get milkshake duck'd but I'd find it interesting and it might add a little splash of optimism to what's obviously a pretty heavy thread.
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May 21, 2019 16:23
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food court bailiff posted:With the updated rules, can I ask about the inverse of the OP? Are there any people (either in the industry or leaders of the fan community) that have proven themselves to be allies/good actors? I know that anyone held up as a positive example has a hell of chance to get milkshake duck'd but I'd find it interesting and it might add a little splash of optimism to what's obviously a pretty heavy thread. The people who run the 40k badcast are terrible but the good kind of terrible.
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May 21, 2019 16:28
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food court bailiff posted:With the updated rules, can I ask about the inverse of the OP? Are there any people (either in the industry or leaders of the fan community) that have proven themselves to be allies/good actors? I know that anyone held up as a positive example has a hell of chance to get milkshake duck'd but I'd find it interesting and it might add a little splash of optimism to what's obviously a pretty heavy thread. On a very related note, I think it would be cool to hear about community building tactics- especially because people often get into these games as a teen when they’re pretty susceptible to political extremism. I think a lot of posters currently have nice communities of people that don’t suck to play against, but it would be neat to think about how to keep communities vibrant and how to expand them- both to marginalized people and how to handle things if you end up with a wannabe Hitler youth showing up.
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May 21, 2019 16:36
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Booley posted:The people who run the 40k badcast are terrible but the good kind of terrible. I’ve used the Badcast as a barometer of other people’s opinions. Mostly one guy who said he started listening and thought it was funny, but then hated “that SJW bullshit the one guy ranted about.” This was after the episode talking about the lovely nazi skull from FLG. That guy is no longer welcome in our group.
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May 21, 2019 16:42
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Mors Rattus posted:Also he thinks he's a wizard. This is news to me. Out of (morbid) curiosity, where does he say this?
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May 21, 2019 16:44
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Cessna posted:This is news to me. Out of (morbid) curiosity, where does he say this? It literally says this in his twitter bio quote:Writes RPGs/Politics/History/Occult Real-life wizard.
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May 21, 2019 17:09
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Cessna posted:This is news to me. Out of (morbid) curiosity, where does he say this? I mostly remember it from the old grogs.txt stuff, there was quotes about him being a practicing occultist.
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May 21, 2019 17:09
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Mors Rattus posted:Things got pretty bad, enough that they literally apologized for a playtest packet, so. White Wolf apologized, but Paradox didn't get involved until after Chechnya. WW's problems went all the way to the top, and little changed after the playtest packet. I remember Zak willfully misinterpreted the Dogs With Dice post as accusing everyone involved in V5 of being Nazis, and turned his harassment hose onto the blogger. ...Who I just now realized leveraged his (when-convenient) Jewishness to offer cover to the actual 1488-dropping fash. Every time you examine Zak's behavior, there's something new and worse!
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May 21, 2019 17:14
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PST posted:He's published some lovely mediocre and racist rpg products that are your typical 'white guy writes about cultures he knows gently caress all about other than wikipedia) but gets most of his attention by being the admin of therpgsite which is where everyone who's banned from all the other gaming communities goes to to complain about how bad it is that wimminz and teh gayz get to be represented. If I remember right, he tries to deflect by claiming that in some of the aforementioned mediocre adventures he has a trans character in them so he can't be any flavor of -phobic.
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May 21, 2019 18:09
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xutech posted:It literally says this in his twitter bio 
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May 21, 2019 18:15
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moths posted:White Wolf apologized, but Paradox didn't get involved until after Chechnya. WW's problems went all the way to the top, and little changed after the playtest packet. Yeah, for some additional clarity for those who didn't watch the insanity, Swedracula (Martin Ericsson) was in charge of creative, but not White Wolf as a subsidiary. The was Tobias Sjogren, the CEO, who gets talked about a lot less since he wasn't continually saying stupid poo poo as his buddy, but probably about as responsible for not putting the brakes on the trainwreck. While I doubt we'll know the play by play of it, just from having to deal with corporate shitshows and different levels of management not being transparent to one another, I'd strongly suspect he was downplaying any bad press Paradox corporate was getting wind of. Or at least he did until he couldn't any more, once Ericsson's clown car managed to piss off the Russian and Chechnyan governments, at which point, "it was agreed that Tobias would leave due to differences of opinion in management of white wolf". A couple weeks later, Paradox officially announced they were dissolving white wolf as a separate entity. Sounds like Ericsson managed to hang on in some capacity for another 1/2 year, maybe managing the copier or something, until he quit or they figured out how to get rid of him under EU labor laws or whatever. Should they have stepped in earlier? Probably. Then again, if I were a corporate manager thinking about spinning off a relatively small potatoes brand whose heyday was 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't be expecting whoever I hired to manage it to be able to gently caress up that big, that fast, either. EDIT: new polygon article talks more about the cluster and how WW and Paradox were organized. https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/21/18633148/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-sequel-paradox-interview Desiden fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 18:31
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So how did WW manage to piss off Chechenya and Russia?
Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 19:06
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Josef bugman posted:So how did WW manage to piss of Chechenya and Russia? The Camarilla book had a section talking about how Chechnya was actually run directly by vampires, that painted the actual ruler of Chechnya as an insane vampire, and said that the purges of gay people were a smokecreen for vampires. This made gay folks angry because it is literally trivializing genocide of gay people and made Chechnya angry because they said it was some kind of anti-Chechan propaganda and got Russia to arrest and interrogate some distributors.
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May 21, 2019 19:08
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Oh loving hell White Wolf. Who greenlit this?
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May 21, 2019 19:12
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Josef bugman posted:Oh loving hell White Wolf. IIRC there was a nearly completely unsupervised team that was responsible for the Vampire stuff (they might have actually been the remnants of White Wolf?). When it started coming out and the uproar ensued the main Paradox leadership (who mostly works on the computer games) had to come in and clean house. Someone who followed the whole thing closer might have better details though.
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May 21, 2019 19:25
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tallkidwithglasses posted:IIRC there was a nearly completely unsupervised team that was responsible for the Vampire stuff (they might have actually been the remnants of White Wolf?). When it started coming out and the uproar ensued the main Paradox leadership (who mostly works on the computer games) had to come in and clean house. Someone who followed the whole thing closer might have better details though. Basically, but they're not the remnants of White Wolf except in the sense that they'd bought the name from CCP, who'd bought up the company. The only real continuity of personnel is that Mark Rein-dot-Hagen, originally a White Wolf employee for a while in the 90s, was hired as a freelancer.
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May 21, 2019 19:31
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LatwPIAT posted:Basically, but they're not the remnants of White Wolf except in the sense that they'd bought the name from CCP, who'd bought up the company. The only real continuity of personnel is that Mark Rein-dot-Hagen, originally a White Wolf employee for a while in the 90s, was hired as a freelancer. And by "continuity" we should note that he spent pretty much the entire 2000s not working on any even slightly related property.
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May 21, 2019 19:33
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