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Colonel Cancer posted:Why are targs immune to fire anyways? What's so special about them? Do Starks get resistance to cold 5? They're not. Except when they are.
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May 22, 2019 19:20
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And what happened to that zombie nuncle on the horse? What was his deal anyways?!?
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May 22, 2019 19:22
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Randarkman posted:then there was the difficulty of fitting in cities and wealthy burghers into this whole "model", and what role the king should have in all this. Also idk about that either, the nobles / king are clearly at the top near God in the Great Chain of Being or whatever they called it. iirc they loooved categorizing things into that order so there's no way they just said "humans" and moved on. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 22, 2019 |
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May 22, 2019 19:22
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Moridin920 posted:Because if you acknowledge that there is no actual value to nobility in of itself (the Europeans called it the divine right to rule) then the entire feudal ideology falls apart and your peasants are thinking "why the gently caress does this jackass get to be the lord" and then kill you in order to declare an autonomous collective ( Well, yes, and that's why I think this is the GRRM ending, because historically it absolutely lines up down lines-of-succession, 'divine right to rule', the law of the land etc. This version it's because there are no people bar the characters, no one else matters. EDIT: historically is a bad word creatd by my ignorance of, y'know, actual history. I mean, like... in a world where GRRM is writing this as if it's a 'historical document' laying out the events, then using the law to justify the status quo would make sense and the book would touch on it. Torchlighter fucked around with this message at 19:27 on May 22, 2019 |
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May 22, 2019 19:23
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Colonel Cancer posted:And what happened to that zombie nuncle on the horse? What was his deal anyways?!? He gave jon his horse and died (double died?) During the dragon1dies turned to ice dragon event. His deal was he got killed and was children of the forest saved as he turned to a weight. This kept his sanity
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May 22, 2019 19:24
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Colonel Cancer posted:Why are targs immune to fire anyways? What's so special about them? Do Starks get resistance to cold 5? They hosed dragons, fire resistance is the AIDS of GOT.
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May 22, 2019 19:26
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superjew posted:They hosed dragons, fire resistance is the AIDS of GOT. it is known
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May 22, 2019 19:27
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Another thing I thought might matter, when they showed the spiral of body parts and then showed the top down shot of the NK being made I said "oh, the spiral is opposite handed now, there's a clue there" and no, DnD probably just saw a mirrored shot and copied it without checking because they are too busy reading reddit.
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May 22, 2019 19:28
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Colonel Cancer posted:Why are targs immune to fire anyways? What's so special about them? Do Starks get resistance to cold 5? They're not. Countless Targs have roasted themselves alive like idiots. Also Jon burned his hand in season 1 fighting that white walker in castle black.
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May 22, 2019 19:29
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So... Jon burns his hand before he fucks his aunt, gains fire resistance after... I guess that explains a lot about GRRM world building.
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May 22, 2019 19:30
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Torchlighter posted:I mean, on reflection, I actually think that Bran winning is actually broad strokes the GRRM ending, just filtered through D&D cocking it up, because I believe he actually has the most legitimate claim to the throne if you follow the line of succession. Wait what why Why would Bran possibly be in the line of royal succession This is still the Baratheon Dynasty, an offshoot of Targaryean, and he's not a Targaryean either
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May 22, 2019 19:35
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Colonel Cancer posted:So... Jon burns his hand before he fucks his aunt, gains fire resistance after... I guess that explains a lot about GRRM world building. When does he gain it?
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May 22, 2019 19:36
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Hey guys I just remembered a part of season 8 that was good and made sense! EDIT: On further reflection I realize I actually spaced out during an episode and misremembered a scene completely
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May 22, 2019 19:42
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:Yeah. Here's a shot right as Theon is charging at the NK where you can see them in the light. I don't see any white walkers in this picture.
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May 22, 2019 19:42
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Moridin920 posted:Also idk about that either, the nobles / king are clearly at the top near God in the Great Chain of Being or whatever they called it. iirc they loooved categorizing things into that order so there's no way they just said "humans" and moved on. The king's role is complicated mostly because there's kind of a thing going on about whether or not the king is just a first among equals among the nobility and clearly part of that order or if he somehow stands outside of the orders (the early medieval thing is that typically the king is stand between the clergy and nobility, not quite part of either but head of both). The cities and burghers were complicated because they didn't really have specific place in the original model and couldn't neatly fit in (technically they are part of the people who labor, but they were also very different from the peasants and cities were far too important to ignore), and people in the Middle Ages weren't really keen when it came to challenging pre-established theory (practice is another matter). Anyway it wasn't really a model of society as it was, it was a model of society as writers thought it ought to be. Moridin920 posted:I mean I was being a bit reductionist hence the Monty Python joke but I don't really see how you're gonna say that a) christianity was not intertwined with feudal thought/ideology, and b) that Divine Right to Rule has nothing to do with said order which keeps everything harmonious? What I'm saying is that there wasn't really such a thing as "feudal thoght/ideology" it's a entirely a label we apply to medieval society, and societies that resemble medieval societies (though often it's just used to mean "primitive" and "autocratic" which is annoying). Feudalism definitely is a useful label, but it wouldn't have meant much to anyone living in the Middle Ages, it's mostly just a way to describe facets of certain medieval European societies. Also, divine right is mostly a late medieval/early modern thing which came about as kings grew in power and centralized their dominions into something actually resembling state. It came about to justify inheritance and expanding the power of the state/monarchy at the expense of the aristocracy. It should also be mentioned that in theory most medieval European monarchies worked on an elective principle of sorts, where a king had to be elected or recognized by the nobility and could in theory be passed over in favor of someone more suitable. In practice this often just meant that a king's eldest son (or otherwise chosen heir) was guaranteed to be recognized as king, and that the elective principle became a fallback option in the case that the king had failed to produce an heir. Thus we se that the elective principle is strengthened in Germany and over times becomes institutionalized into what we recognize from the early modern period, whereas in France the Capetians for hundreds of years never failed to produce a male heir to the throne which resulted in the hereditary principle of kingship eventually almost completely subsuming the elective.
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May 22, 2019 19:43
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Who is saying that medieval people used the term feudalism?
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May 22, 2019 19:46
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Glenn Quebec posted:Who is saying that medieval people used the term feudalism? No one really. But the idea that there is such a thing as feudal ideology is not very well founded.
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May 22, 2019 19:47
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.... Who was saying that?
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May 22, 2019 19:48
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Moridin is saying it.
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May 22, 2019 19:50
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Randarkman posted:The king's role is complicated mostly because there's kind of a thing going on about whether or not the king is just a first among equals among the nobility and clearly part of that order or if he somehow stands outside of the orders (the early medieval thing is that typically the king is stand between the clergy and nobility, not quite part of either but head of both). *nods CK2-ishly* Thanks for the extra context. Randarkman posted:Moridin is saying it. No I wasn't? Was more just an issue of "ideology" is not the accurate word (which I felt like I knew going in but I was channeling Zizek a bit).
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May 22, 2019 19:52
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In the 5th episode did Varys take his rings off and put them in a cup for some reason or am I misremembering things?
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May 22, 2019 19:53
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For sure Moridin said feudal ideology but not in the context that people in medieval times thought / said it.
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May 22, 2019 19:54
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Ralph Crammed In posted:In the 5th episode did Varys take his rings off and put them in a cup for some reason or am I misremembering things? Prob hurts to get burned alive while wearing em they get hot
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May 22, 2019 19:55
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Really all I meant to say was the nobles aren't exactly going to sit around and say "hey this lineage poo poo doesn't actually matter right."
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May 22, 2019 19:56
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Verily everyday I eat from the dunghill of ideology.
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May 22, 2019 19:58
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They should have put a splinter of dragon glass into everyone's arm, that way if they died they wouldn't be able to come back. Idiots.
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May 22, 2019 19:59
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hawowanlawow posted:what No, Sansa letting Brienne do what she wants, and not forcing her to keep an oath that's been kept, is not out of character There are plenty of very valid complaints (kidnapping a zombie to convince Cersie is the dumbest idea of all time), that's a valid complaint. Then there are things people just are pulling from their butts thinking you've spotted 'oh my god yet another gently caress up' Why didn't Sansa make Brienne stay in the north? Or, why didn't Brienne want to stay there? I don't even know which one is considered out of character here but it's such a dumb stupid tiny thing to be hung up on. Sansa probably was the one to suggest she stay and protect Bran, that's most in-character for her.
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May 22, 2019 20:03
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I just wanted an Aladdin scene with Sansa motioning at Brienne and saying "Brienne, you're free!" okay gently caress
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May 22, 2019 20:05
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What a dumb thing to bring up as a problem in any way
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May 22, 2019 20:05
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Why does Bran have a claim on the iron throne
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May 22, 2019 20:06
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Why does Bran have a claim on the iron throne becasue he's bran the broken, bitch
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May 22, 2019 20:07
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Break the wheel with Bran the Broken aka Wheelz
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May 22, 2019 20:08
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Why does Bran have a claim on the iron throne The Electoral College
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May 22, 2019 20:08
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Branken.
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May 22, 2019 20:08
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Wait what why Bear in mind, I'm backworking this, so it's entirely made up and could be complete garbage. So it's assumed that succession is passed down father-to-oldest-living-son, using a queen if no living sons remain. Robert's Rebellion ends with Aerys II Targaryen dying at the hands of Jaime, with Rheagar, his oldest surviving son, dying at the hands of Robert. The line then passes to Viserys and through him to Daenerys, or so it's assumed. House Baratheon's claim is hearsay; their progenitor Orys Baratheon was rumoured to be the bastard half-brother of Aerys I. So Robert's claim is shaky at best, but serves enough for the purpose. Anyway, game of thrones happening ends his line, kills Stannis and Renly, thus ending the Bratheon line, unless you count Gendry being legitimised, which hell, why not. Even if you do, Robert's an usurper, since he's not actually as high in the line-of succession as he claims, but whatever, not really the point. All of this is to legitimise him in the eyes of the populace. Stannis and Renly obviously are after Robert's sons and daughter in the line, blah blah blah, game of thrones happens and succession crisis. All of these are made technically irrelevant by Jon Snow being the legitimised son of Rheagar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, making him first in line of succession (which is the big conceit of this seasons tension between Daenerys and Jon, because if people find out, his claim is stronger than hers and she doesn't want that). When the smoke clears, Jon's murdered Daenerys, which takes her out, but more importantly, makes him both a Kingslayer and a Kinslayer, giant no-no's in Westeros Law. Here's where it gets weird. Grey Worm demanding jon be punished is what the episode focuses on, but by Westeros law, Jon's in serious trouble. Like, execution or exile trouble. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the catalyst for his exile in GRRMs version (assuming GRRM's ending is in any way like this). Exiling him to the wall strips his titles and claims, so the fact that he's first in line for the throne is now moot, and second in line takes the mantle. There's no more Targaryens... but Jon's a Stark. And his closest living male relative is Bran, who's his cousin. No blood, but it's arguable Robert had no Targaryen blood in him. That's my thinking. I freely cede to it being a pack of conjecture and bullshit, but the logic tracks.
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May 22, 2019 20:09
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Thranguy posted:Tyrion being left out of the book was some bull, too. Even if nothing he did as Hand or on the battlefield was considered noteworthy, his capture motivated the Lannister mobilization, he spent most of the wars being blamed for Bran's fall and Joffrey's death, he married Sansa, killed Tywin, and installed Bronn and house blackwater to a great holding. That whole scene was insanely stupid from start to finish, but Tyrion being turned into a punchline of his own story was the dumbest poo poo. In addition to all of the above, he saved King's Landing and the Lannisters from certain death at the Battle of Blackwater. Stannis would have 100% won that battle and changed the entire standing of the realm if Tyrion wasn't able to hold out long enough for Tywin to bail him out at the last moment. Tyrion is one of the most important characters in the series next to Jon, Dany, and Stannis (RIP), but I guess turning council scenes into a painfully bad network TV sitcom is more important.
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May 22, 2019 20:09
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It's out of character for brienne, not Sansa. She was literally already a queens guard for Sansa, someone she had also already swarn to protect. Why would she jump ship other than so they can show her writing Jamie's part in the book?
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May 22, 2019 20:09
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Ralph Crammed In posted:In the 5th episode did Varys take his rings off and put them in a cup for some reason or am I misremembering things? He knows hes dead and its showing how pragmatic he is. Not that he was pragmatic in sitting in his room writing heresy but you know faaaaarrrrrrrttttttt
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May 22, 2019 20:11
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There's lots of instances in history where you have two competing separate claims on the same country sometimes even through different thrones in 19th century france for example you had the Bonapartists who had a claim on the Throne of French EMPIRE, and the Orleanists and the legitimists both had a claim on the KINGDOM of France in GoT's case Gendry is so obviously clear cut the legitimate heir once dany dies and Jon goes back to his home planet, he's closest relation to Deanerys of note and also legitimized heir of the Baratheon claim. He can legitimate say that both Robert and Dany were monarchs and he's just the heir to both of them.
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May 22, 2019 20:12
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I'm getting sick.. sick of this game of groans
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May 22, 2019 20:14
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