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Tae posted:Considering Pat's latest George RR Martin rant on the podcast, I think Liam has heard enough poo poo from him to never trust Pat again ???
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May 23, 2019 18:03
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Depths posted:??? It's a pretty well kept secret but Liam is actually GRRM
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May 23, 2019 18:25
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Pat was 100% correct about GRRM/creators
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May 23, 2019 18:35
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Liam can never reconnect with Pat or he'll have to pay up on the bet he made that PSO2 will ever release outside of Japan.
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May 23, 2019 18:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kITlnWolL_k&t=2243s
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May 23, 2019 18:45
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Improbable Lobster posted:Pat was 100% correct about GRRM/creators Are you telling me folks itt get mad at completely accurate criticisms from Pat?
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May 23, 2019 19:55
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Woolie's summary of Sansa's story in GoT was genuinely hosed up and made me think less of him. He would not have done that had Sansa been a guy.
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May 23, 2019 20:05
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Improbable Lobster posted:Pat was 100% correct about GRRM/creators Somewhat, the notion of giving back the money for something that wasn't pre-paid made no sense though. GRRM should give back his money? What? You and everyone else got those books, to my knowledge there aren't Winds of Winter pre-orders at stake here or some poo poo. Like yeah, we can call him a lying jerk I guess, especially if you dig into it more and he kept saying he was close to finishing it going back to I think 2013~2015. Also the show was supposedly greenlit on the premise that of course he'd finish the books before the show caught up, it'd be "insane" to think he wouldn't. Another thing GRRM has said in the past, I think wrt the possibility of him dying before finishing the books, is that a possible ending for the story is that the comet crashes into the world and kills everyone, like if he dies that's the canon ending. Also from the podcast, I don't think it's as necessary to write off Westworld season 3 as Woolie seems to think. Unlike GoT, season 2 wasn't their last season, they get to try and improve based on the criticism and potentially make a good season this time. It's probably unlikely, but I sorta feel like the disappointment he felt over GoT has made him super cynical, even though he was hardcore sandbagging WW season 2 at the time, it seems like any potential for a benefit of the doubt on this is now dead. Shows can have a bad season and be good again.
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May 23, 2019 20:24
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Woolie is that guy in TVIV who gets really hyped for a TV show, then doesn't actually pay full attention to it when it is on, then screams about it being terrible when it doesn't meet his expectations. And then picks on minutiae and things he misunderstood (because he wasn't actually watching), to serve as support for his position that the show is bad. And then never re-evaluates or shuts up about it going forward.
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May 23, 2019 21:27
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Pat is looking at Yoshi P lose his mind as the FFXIV patch note stream shits on itself. It's feeding me delicious audiovisual panic aura.
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May 23, 2019 21:51
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Pat is looking at Yoshi P lose his mind as the FFXIV patch note stream shits on itself. It's feeding me delicious audiovisual panic aura. Shits on itself is a goddamn understatement
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May 23, 2019 22:09
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Explanation for those of us in the slow lane?
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May 23, 2019 22:11
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The stream is like an hour behind their schedule, and they just jump scared 62k+ people with a distortion sound check like 10 dB higher than their current settings edit: They just lost sound completely now
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May 23, 2019 22:12
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Dabir posted:Explanation for those of us in the slow lane? They're in a borrowed studio in San Francisco as opposed to their home office and they can't get audio working on the stream it has been almost an hour
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May 23, 2019 22:13
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They are now currently PUTTING THE MIC NEAR THE SPEAKER Billion dollar company setups here
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May 23, 2019 22:16
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Brightman posted:Somewhat, the notion of giving back the money for something that wasn't pre-paid made no sense though. GRRM should give back his money? What? You and everyone else got those books, to my knowledge there aren't Winds of Winter pre-orders at stake here or some poo poo. Like yeah, we can call him a lying jerk I guess, especially if you dig into it more and he kept saying he was close to finishing it going back to I think 2013~2015. Also the show was supposedly greenlit on the premise that of course he'd finish the books before the show caught up, it'd be "insane" to think he wouldn't. Another thing GRRM has said in the past, I think wrt the possibility of him dying before finishing the books, is that a possible ending for the story is that the comet crashes into the world and kills everyone, like if he dies that's the canon ending. He admitted that it would be impractical and impossible to refund everyone but also did you even listen to the podcast cause he addressed these things
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May 23, 2019 22:18
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Tae posted:They are now currently PUTTING THE MIC NEAR THE SPEAKER Audio is loving hard and doing audio setups on the fly in the field even more so
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May 23, 2019 22:22
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Improbable Lobster posted:Pat was 100% correct about GRRM/creators He's 100% wrong all the way through. I'm just gonna focus on him ranting incoherently about authors promising new books and not following through. In the general sense, when he talks about people selling a book and promising more, it's not the artists that do that. Most young writers come to a publisher with their first novel, and they're a nobody. The publisher could take the time and effort to promote the new talent (and in fact they want to, young talent with new work is needed to keep the doors from shuttering) but it's a lot of time and effort buying the reviews, getting the book mentioned in magazines and catalogs, and shaking down established names to try to get some buzz going. Name a famous figure in science fiction & fantasy, and I guarentee they've got several cardboard boxes full of pre-release copies of books they'll never read in the basement, shipped to them for free by publishers for the sub 1% chance they'll mention the book's existence somewhere the public will hear it. It's a big investment of time and money. So, in order to make that worth it, the publisher will offer a deal to the aspiring author. Rewrite the end of their fantasy novel so it's open, and make it book one of a trilogy. This means a bunch of things--first and most importantly, it means the publisher will get two more books they get to sell in the future, so this investment in a new author has a chance to pay out. Second, it means this won't be the "one novel" some people think they're limited to, and puts the screws on them to complete the transformation from accountant to author. Third, it's easier to sell that first book to people--fans will tend not to buy a new book from someone they've never heard of, because if it sucks they've wasted twelve bucks. But twelve bucks for the first book in a series they've never heard of? Why, if it's crap they don't have to buy any more of the series! And then they've saved twenty four bucks. So even though it doesn't cost less, the first book of a trilogy is seen as less of a risk to a public suspicious of a new writer. So publishers will almost always want to put a contract in front of a first time novelist that says, "Here's a huge pile of money. Now write two more of them." Even if that novel is good enough that it'd easily sell to another publisher (it probably isn't, they're all looking for different things) they're not going to offer a better deal. So the aspiring author takes a swig of vodka and signs on the line. Boom, probably the biggest check they've ever received in their life, and more importantly, they're a published Author. Hooray! They've published a fantasy novel! And then they wake up the next morning and instead of being up one fantasy novel, they're down two. Hate the game, not the player. If that author winds up washing out because they can't finish that trilogy, there are going to be contractual consequences. Just like Pat wants, they will be punished for their weakness. And yet Pat isn't calling for Tor or Baen or Random House or whoever to have their money taken away, because while not being as good an artist as you maybe thought you were is contemptible, pressuring aspiring artists into exploitative contracts is A O K. As for GRRM, he's been writing (and editing!) stories for decades and he has the full faith of his publisher, who's also made back everything they invested in him several times over. He doesn't get the exploitative contract because they don't feel the need to jerk him around, which means he can turn in a draft this year or ten years from now. He's got a different set of motivators--the fact that literary reviewers he holds in the highest esteem have said the Song of Ice and Fire made him the J R R Tolkien of this generation, for example. He'll eventually stick the ending, and will be talked about for hundreds of years, or he'll gently caress it up, and will forever be a hack. As far as his career and his legacy are concerned, his lifetime of other work doesn't mean poo poo compared to this. If he's a success or a failure, a literary visionary or a commercial product, if he's a good man or lying exploitative trash, all depends on the quality of those last books. He'll write them on his own terms.
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May 23, 2019 22:44
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Improbable Lobster posted:He admitted that it would be impractical and impossible to refund everyone but also did you even listen to the podcast cause he addressed these things I did, and he didn't, asides from the first thing you said, but I'm saying the mere notion that someone is owed an impractical/impossible refund is nonsensical. He didn't mention those things specifically and I was just agreeing with him that viewing grrm as a liar is applicable and provided additional points to back that up.
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May 23, 2019 22:56
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I got to that GRRM segment,and yeah, Pat's just yelling nonsense, and any time he backs down, he starts doubling down a minute later. It's so detached from reality, that it's easy to tune out, but that's one of those bits where I can't blame Matt and Liam for cutting ties since hearing that in person, as your loving job, must be hell. Pat turning into a pterodactyl over the nerd poo poo buffs on FFXIV is fun though. In conclusion, Pat is a ginger of contrasts.
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May 23, 2019 23:12
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Brightman posted:I did, and he didn't, asides from the first thing you said, but I'm saying the mere notion that someone is owed an impractical/impossible refund is nonsensical. He didn't mention those things specifically and I was just agreeing with him that viewing grrm as a liar is applicable and provided additional points to back that up. ArmyOfMidgets posted:I got to that GRRM segment,and yeah, Pat's just yelling nonsense, and any time he backs down, he starts doubling down a minute later. It's so detached from reality, that it's easy to tune out, but that's one of those bits where I can't blame Matt and Liam for cutting ties since hearing that in person, as your loving job, must be hell. am i taking crazy pills or are you loving nuts, Pat was 100% right and AGAIN he wasn't actually demanding a refund, he was saying that would be the right thing to do
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May 23, 2019 23:19
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Improbable Lobster posted:am i taking crazy pills or are you loving nuts, Pat was 100% right and AGAIN he wasn't actually demanding a refund, he was saying that would be the right thing to do "I'm not saying I want them to do it but I am saying that they should 100% do it" Hmmm.....
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May 23, 2019 23:23
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Improbable Lobster posted:am i taking crazy pills or are you loving nuts, Pat was 100% right and AGAIN he wasn't actually demanding a refund, he was saying that would be the right thing to do It's not the right thing to do, a refund for what? The books you already have and read? The fallacy is Pat thinks those books have no value if there's no ending and that's not true. His examples of like if he asked viewers for money for a european ps2 and game and then he didn't finish it made sense, yeah, give them their money back, but that's not what's going on with ASoIaF, maybe on the publisher side if there were advances but that'll work itself out if it comes to it.
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May 23, 2019 23:26
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pat's arguments never make sense, but he never tries to have them do that anyway. he just wants to be as inflammatory as possible so everyone loses in the end. it's why he's funny to us, and it's also why he's the only one of the group people stopped being friends with. his aggressive ignorance is always funny until it turns on something you actually care about 
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May 23, 2019 23:54
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Woolie's summary of Sansa's story in GoT was genuinely hosed up and made me think less of him. He would not have done that had Sansa been a guy. What'd he say?
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May 24, 2019 04:37
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Less what he said than how he said it. He dismissed the character and her arc while twirling his hair in parody of a dumb little girl. It was shittily sexist out of nowhere.
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May 24, 2019 05:41
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i haven't watched since s4 but sansa's whole deal is quietly learning to play the game (instead of loudly saying "YOU WIN OR YOU DIE" to her opposition), and using the fact people treat her as a useless pretty princess as a weapon against them. so it's unsurprising woolie missed that and just takes her at face value.
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May 24, 2019 11:03
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Marin Karin posted:pat's arguments never make sense, but he never tries to have them do that anyway. he just wants to be as inflammatory as possible so everyone loses in the end. it's why he's funny to us, and it's also why he's the only one of the group people stopped being friends with. Genuinely incredible how many people still get mad about Pat being wrong and still arguing when he infamously once countered a point with "You are right, but I don't care"
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May 24, 2019 13:45
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Marin Karin posted:i haven't watched since s4 but sansa's whole deal is quietly learning to play the game (instead of loudly saying "YOU WIN OR YOU DIE" to her opposition), and using the fact people treat her as a useless pretty princess as a weapon against them. so it's unsurprising woolie missed that and just takes her at face value. By the final episode it's not even taking her at face value. She's quite explicitly the best political operator in the programme. Honestly, it's a perfect example of what I was getting at when I said he's like a TVIV viewer, but with random sexism thrown in.
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May 24, 2019 16:01
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WHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-holg6vTso
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May 24, 2019 17:47
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hell yeah
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May 24, 2019 17:53
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Good to see Woolie knows what the people want
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May 24, 2019 17:58
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Finally made it to Pat's GRRM rant and he's 100% right GRRM is genuinely a lazy scam artist and its been clear for at least a decade now
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May 24, 2019 18:13
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Finally made it to Pat's GRRM rant and he's 100% right Dude's written nine novels, dozens of novelettes and short stories, and a couple of reference books expanding the history of GoT, he was the editor of twenty seven Wild Cards collections (which were based on his original work, also which he wrote a bunch of stories for) and fifteen other collections, and wrote a bunch of episodes of several TV series, in addition to his work on the Game of Thrones TV series, all while remaining an active member of the science fiction literature community and throwing tons of high visibility parties, even back before he had that Game of Thrones money. If that's lazy, who loving isn't.
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May 24, 2019 18:26
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Notice how he was super prolific before GOT blew up and since then has only released ghost written half-books and gone to cons He was always interested in the money and now that he has it will never finish the series He will never complete the social contract because he is rich so he doesnt want to
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May 24, 2019 18:31
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It's frankly amazing how you can be really into lit crit and quote a bunch of authors by heart but still take a Pat-like position of I WANT THE THING NOW IF I DON'T GET IT YOU'RE A SCAMMER, really.
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May 24, 2019 18:41
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Every time I see people crying about GRRM not finishing the book they're "owed", I want him to take even longer to finish it.
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May 24, 2019 18:43
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Dias posted:It's frankly amazing how you can be really into lit crit and quote a bunch of authors by heart but still take a Pat-like position of I WANT THE THING NOW IF I DON'T GET IT YOU'RE A SCAMMER, really. I've never read it actually. I refuse to read any "series" that isnt finished just so I do not participate in frauds like GRRMs SOIAF. I just appreciate that Pat sees it as it is and calls the guy out on it
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May 24, 2019 18:45
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I've never read it actually. I mean, that's just your brainworms, but whatever. GoT was Always Bad anyway.
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May 24, 2019 18:46
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Dudes written two real books in 20 years Joyce wrote Finnegans Wake in that time
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May 24, 2019 18:48
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